MCV: PlayStation on Xbox backwards compatibility

Rembrandt said:
What if a person bought it digitally and wanted to replay it but sold that console? They have to rent it.
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What if I want to watch my VHS copy of Sister Act but don't have a VCR?

You guys need to get it out of your head that there is this difference between digital and physical software. You might have bought the game digitally, but what you bought was a digital game for a specific platform. Just because it is digital doesn't mean it magically transfers to new platforms over time. You aren't being cheated out of anything.
 
The Beard said:
Can we all just agree that PSNow is a bad idea ?

I get that it's not just BC. Its terrible though. It's going to fail, and the resources blown on it could/should have been used on something more useful. Pay per play in your own home, on your own hardware is dumb beyond belief.
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It's a great idea. They need to work on the price and content offering, but the concept and execution is there. They need to move beyond smart tvs and get iOS, Android, and PC/Mac clients out there. Once they do that, the sky is the limit.
 
TechnicPuppet said:
What does that have to do with it being buggy?
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Software EMU on previous systems have been. the 2nd wave of PS3's, the 360, etc.. Not until the systems are dramatically more powerful does EMU get perfect (PS3 w/ PS1 games). The PS2 EMU on the PS3 for downloadable PS2 games are some recompilation and port work.

Past experience with MS doing BC is assorted buggy messes.
 
sony-library-ps4-anywhere.png

Still waiting.
 
BC for PS3 games would be nice since my wife forced me to chose between the PS3 and PS4 when I left for Korea (I chose the 4, not missing out on Witcher 3), however, I'm not to concerned since I have the 360 and the naughty dog games are getting ps4 releases.

There's no reason why PS1 and PS2 games shouldn't work.
 
gai_shain said:
Well some blurays have codes for digital download of the movie I think? But thats obviously not streaming
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And that is factored into the cost of the purchase. Your purchase of Uncharted: Drakes Fortune for $60 almost 8 years ago didn't include the option to download or stream it.
 
Amir0x said:
I bet doing the same thing for PS4 would be agonizing due to PS3's architecture.

Microsoft doing this is awesome no doubt.
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I just want my PS4 to play PS1 game... I have a ton of PS1 JRPGs that I like to play and i like the PS4 controller so much more than the PS3's
 
I feel like BC will be used a lot more now in my opinion (Well atleast right now).

It's a lot different from Xbox 360 -> Xbox BC and PS3 -> PS2 BC in a sense that people grew up in the Xbox 360/PS3 generation because of how long it was and are very attached to a lot of games that came out from that gen. I think no BC is a reason why there is still a lot of people on last gen consoles and with that people will be more reluctant to go on to the next generation espically with the fact that with Xbox One's backwards compatibilty you can still talk to your old friends on 360 while still being able to record and screenshot your favorite moments.

This could potentially be pretty big for Microsoft if they continue to grow the list of games compatible.
 
phanphare said:
lol, really? you're going to use the fucking Wii U as an example? I know you cracked a smile, at least, before you posted that.

and just to use your awful logic the DS was the best selling console of all time and it had BC. it sold like crazy. it set the world on fire. BC must be a console-defining feature, right?
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Clearly you didn't get my comment and I expected from a..... Let me not

My point was, hardware wise, the WII U didn't appeal to gamers solely on the fact that it was backwards compatible. The Wii U did not sell off the shelf because you can play your Wii games on it.

The DS didn't sell because you could play your old Gameboy SP games on it. They sold on the base of new games coming to the system.
You really are going to sit here and a because the DS sold billions that it was all due in part to the Gameboy SP? Don't be ridiculous. It was a great option to have at the time but not a heavy handed reason why it sold. How is that hard to understand?
 
Ninja Scooter said:
What if I want to watch my VHS copy of Sister Act but don't have a VCR?

You guys need to get it out of your head that there is this difference between digital and physical software. You might have bought the game digitally, but what you bought was a digital game for a specific platform. Just because it is digital doesn't mean it magically transfers to new platforms over time. You aren't being cheated out of anything.
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It surely is possible for Xbox.

I want it possible for my PS games too. Want to buy PS4 and BC would surely help expedite that.
 
I'm amazed MSoft bothered, and I'm not surprised at Sony's avoidance. IIRC, both companies basically flat out said they weren't even going to try BC. I doubt Sony even wants to look at the headache of emulating PS3 hardware, basically thinking 'yeah well, fuck that mess.' It's an impressive feat for MSoft, but I don't expect it's one Sony will ever bother to counter, especially considering their BC on PS3 was far from perfect even when they were bothering.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
What if I want to watch my VHS copy of Sister Act but don't have a VCR?

You guys need to get it out of your head that there is this difference between digital and physical software. You might have bought the game digitally, but what you bought was a digital game for a specific platform. Just because it is digital doesn't mean it magically transfers to new platforms over time. You aren't being cheated out of anything.
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Lmao, how is that an apt comparison? It should, though, if possible. People in PSNOW threads even said it would be a good idea if you could play games you bought digitally for free on there since its tied to your accounts. Is that a bad idea, too?
 
ShinUltramanJ said:
360 bc isn't just there to upgrade players to the new console. It's adding a fuck ton of value to the X1, by letting you carry your games over!!

In a market where digital sales and offerings are growing by leaps and bounds it's foolish to lock down to one platform! I think if this makes a nice difference for Microsoft's X1 sales, and third parties enjoy renewed sales on older titles, Sony will change their tune. We can only hope!
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Indeed. I sure as hell wish I had access to my digital PS3 games on my PS4. Yet, some are acting as if it is better to not have it than to have it. Incredible. All this does is make the Xbox One more like a PC, if anything.
 
phanphare said:
what awful reasoning lol


I really can't believe the downplaying BC is receiving. it's a good thing. it's an objectively good thing. don't care? sweeeeeet, personal preference is a beautiful thing. the downplaying though, cmon guys. this was a great announcement for gamers.
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It's downplayed because their platform isn't doing it. That's usually how it goes on message boards.
 
El_Chino said:
My point is that with every generation comes a new set of hardware, different from its predecessors and yet BC was still a thing up until this gen. I know not all games were BC on the 360 and the PS3 but it still happened. I'm sure if Sony worked hard enough it's possible for them in some shape or form but if they don't think it's feasible, then that's a separate decision.
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Outside of PC, backwards compatibility was never really the norm. Yes, the PS2 was fully backwards compatible with PS1, but that came with a PS1 basically built in. It's the same with emulation on the PS3, where a PS2 was baked in, and later removed to cut down on both size and cost of the console.

The 360 had a very limited list of games that were BC and honestly a lot of them had serious issues in their emulation. They quickly stopped making more games compatible because they probably saw that it wasn't worth the time or resources.

Other than that you have handhelds and the Atari console line, which were more like iterations on the hardware and less generational leaps.

Full backwards compatibility seems like it's more of a security blanket for people that are apprehensive about making the leap to the current gen because they don't want to leave their library behind.
 
vcc said:
That's a port. That took a chunk of money and lots of dev time. What MS is doing is either doing some sort of binary wrapper or recompilation like they did with 360 BC with the OG Xbox. So one takes a dev team 8 months; the other a dev team 1 week. Even so, expect BC on the XB1 to be like BX on the 360, buggy.
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Except it's not buggy at all. I'm in the preview program and have been using it since it launched and it has been nothing but flawless. It's a remarkable engineering achievement that took a lot longer than 1 week.
 
Curufinwe said:
BC won't stop remasters. It didn't last gen.
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It would cut down on the demand for last gen remasters. It's kind of tiring to get the same games we got a couple of years ago again, but looking slightly better. I'm alright with remasters from 2 gens or more ago, but stuff like God of War III remake feels completely unnecessary. If PS4 had BC, people could just pop in their PS3 copies and play.
 
I have a feeling BC will be huge for a the first year or so and it'll just fade away afterwards. Despite this, Sony, hurry up with the PSone and PS2 emulation for PS4. At least get that done. My classics are waiting to be played.

Best wishes.
 
ElNino said:
How do you feel it is limited in terms of BC? The only things I know of are that it doesnt' support USB peripherals, Kinect or (currently) multi-disc games.

Otherwise, it seems to be full Xbox 360 emulation. Yesterday, I just turned my system on and had 6 games in my library ready to download and install. From what I've tried thus far, they operate exactly how they would on the 360 and the XB1 treats them the same as any other game or app.

Also, regarding 3rd party studios blocking it... considering there are at least two major games (Rainbow Six and Fallout) that are offering the 360 versions for free with the XB1 games, I think they might be ok with it.
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Because its limited in the games that are available with more to be released. I would like to see how the BC list is in one year. IMO backwards compatibility is; I put the older game in my new console and it works. Not a digital download. Don't get me wrong its a kickass feature, and they definitely used the correct wording to get people hyped.

ITs an expensive novelty that people will barely use in the long run.
 
Goose_7 said:
It was a very smart move by MS and more than that it was endearing to the consumer. MS didn't do this because it's beneficial to their bottom line, they did this as a good will gesture to their loyal fan base.

As someone who not only owns many ps3 games but still has quite a backlog of ps3 games to play through - many of us on Gaf probably find ourselves in a similar situation- I would find it useful to finally retire my old 60GB ps3 and simply have my ps4 to play my ps3 games on.

I do realize I am in the minority but like books, there are a couple of games that I play annually and for people like me MS has made that a reality.

Good move on MS's part indeed.
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I guess you missed the "Now is a great time to upgrade" after the announcement.
 
CaptNink said:
You're going to need to explain how they are different, then.
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PSNOW is subscription service like Netflix. I can play those games on any PSNOW enabled device.

XBOX BC is not a subscription service. I can only play games I already own, on a single console: The XB1.

I don't know how much clearer it can be.
 
vcc said:
Software EMU on previous systems have been. the 2nd wave of PS3's, the 360, etc.. Not until the systems are dramatically more powerful does EMU get perfect (PS3 w/ PS1 games). The PS2 EMU on the PS3 for downloadable PS2 games are some recompilation and port work.

Past experience with MS doing BC is assorted buggy messes.
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What about current experience? It's perfect.
 
CaptNink said:
You're going to need to explain how they are different, then.
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For starters, find me a TV that can play 360 games without a console.

Second, PS Now isn't limited to just PS3 games. That's what they chose to lead off the service with, but it's not the end goal.
 
I will play my XBone a lot more if I can play my 360 games on it.... but I am still buying all my multiplatform on PS4 or PC.
 
Loch Doun said:
Except it's not buggy at all. I'm in the preview program and have been using it since it launched and it has been nothing but flawless. It's a remarkable engineering achievement that took a lot longer than 1 week.
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Might be spending more time on Q&A then their last effort. How long is the download for each game?
 
Sounds about right. Considering they invested millions of dollars on cloud service (Gaikai), they are not going to butcher their own service to satisfy PS4 owners. At the end of the day, business is business.
 
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
Clearly you didn't get my comment and I expected from a..... Let me not

My point was, hardware wise, the WII U didn't appeal to gamers solely on the fact that it was backwards compatible. The Wii U did not sell off the shelf because you can play your Wii games on it.

The DS didn't sell because you could play your old Gameboy SP games on it. They sold on the base of new games coming to the system.
You really are going to sit here and a because the DS sold billions that it was all due in part to the Gameboy SP? Don't be ridiculous. It was a great option to have at the time but not a heavy handed reason why it sold. How is that hard to understand?
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yeah I wasn't being serious with the whole DS thing, more pointing out the absurdity of you using the Wii U as proof that BC doesn't matter. Wii U is a flop > BC doesn't matter. DS is a success > BC matters. both are dumb.
 
Rembrandt said:
Lmao, how is that an apt comparison? It should, though, if possible. People in PSNOW threads even said it would be a good idea if you could play games you bought digitally for free on there since its tied to your accounts. Is that a bad idea, too?
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How is it not an apt comparison? Is it any more ridiculous than thinking that buying a game years ago should somehow mean you should be able to stream it for free years later? Why? The reason Sony charges money for PSNow is because the bandwidth required for streaming costs money. Would it be amazing if they just ate the cost and let people do it? Sure. But do I also understand why they wouldn't? Yes. That's not what they were ever intending PSNow to be.
 
Backwards compatibility for old gens builds faith that the games you're buying now will have future support in coming gens.

I always buy physical when can and never spend much on a digital game because at this point I expect them all to be lost to me with no support on future consoles, and eventual shutdown of old services (old consoles).
 
Tobor said:
For starters, find me a TV that can play 360 games without a console.

Second, PS Now isn't limited to just PS3 games. That's what they chose to lead off the service with, but it's not the end goal.
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Doesn't change the fact that Sony is charging you to play games you already own.
 
This was a nice move by MS, legit jealous. I understand that BC isn't the whole point of PSNow (and Sony wants to make money from streaming) but damn it'd be great if we could at least get access to games that we already own for free on PSNow.
 
If they could only do what MS is doing, extremely limited BC with who knows what kind of support, i don't really want it. At that point it's better for me to keep my 60gb ps3 next to my PS4 for that complete Playstation compatibility.
 
vcc said:
Doesn't sound like it. Full EMU on a system which doesn't completely stomp the EMU system is unlikely. They do mention you need to download a chunk of data from their servers.

XB is much more powerful than the 360 but not enough for flawless EMU (enthusiasts guess). It took a long while for PC's to EMU PS2's at full frame rate and those stomped the specs of the PS2 by a lot more than the 360->XB1 at the time.
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Well, I have several of these games on my XB1 right now and they have thus far played 100% faithful to the 360 versions, because they are the 360 version running on the (emulated) 360 OS.

And, from Phil:
"The team took the approach of effectively running the whole hardware OS that was running on the 360 hardware on the Xbox One," Spencer <a href="http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox-ones-backwards-compatibility-works-because-its-tricking-your-360-games/">explained<a> to Edge.

"So when you boot the games, it literally boots up the operating system of the Xbox 360 - which is why you can play with Live and everything else. That was the most difficult thing."

He went on to clarify how, and why, a download version of the game was necessary.

"It's an Xbox One copy of the exact same game so that it shows up as an Xbox One game. That way [...] it shows the game ID and everything else."
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Phil Spencer on backwards compatibility.
 
Bsigg12 said:
How fast is your internet? Xbox 360 games shipped on 9GB DVDs so outside of multiple disc games, they won't exceed that.
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I figure if it's almost instant that would mean EMU and some sort of config file. If it's a few min it's a recompiled binary.
 
I don't care about playing most old games, unless it's pre ps1 or even some ps1 classics. I do however think if digital is a thing of the future they better find a way to make future consoles backwards compatible with all downloaded titles. I don't want to have my ps5 titles floating around in digital space endlessly because they can't be played on my ps10.

I really don't see why anyone would boot up an old Xbox game to play multiplayer with someone else. But if you can literally put any old game in and it will play for you then that is a nice bonus. But I agree with Sony, this is a feature that everyone always wants, but people barely use it. However I don't like that Sony charges people to rent games they probably have on the PS3 with ps now. So something needs to be done.
 
Zophar said:
The Xbox solution is really messy, uneven, and less than ideal, tbh. If you can't have actual native BC I would much prefer a streaming solution, if it meant the games worked/looked exactly as they once did, and I wasn't barred by what's supported and what isn't.
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they look exactly the same and some run better actually i bet you don't even have an xbox or are in the preview program to test this out.
 
I'm in the "trade the game away once I beat it" camp so I couldn't even tell you what ps3 games I've actually played at this point let alone still have them laying around. Sucks for people who do save their games, though.
 
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