MCV: PlayStation on Xbox backwards compatibility

vcc said:
How it works determines how you can expect support to proliferate. If it requires min support from MS side then you can expect full library support eventually. If it's labor intensive you can expect to repeat the 360 era BC.
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It seems pretty clear from everything Phil Spencer said that it is a minimal support needed situation. I don't think this is anything like the OG Xbox to 360 BC, which required literal reworking/recoding for some games to work on the 360.

For the vast majority of games, this really should be a few checklist items: get all necessary licensing and permissions from publisher, basic QA (to make sure it works), load files for download for all users. I don't really see what else will needed to be done since as far as the game is concerned it's running on an "Xbox 360".

There will be some games that might never work (Kinect games) and some games that might not work right away (multi-disc games) - but I imagine the solution MS is aiming for is near 100% BC support.
 
KillerSloth said:
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Most simply don't care. Even ms said so before article was posted earlier in the thread.
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And what are your claims of "Most simply don't care" based on?

"Does it play the old games" is a question that has been asked by MANY a parent, when inquiring about the new system their kid wants. Not everyone wants to keep four systems hooked up to their TV, and being able to play older games increases the value of that new system. Anecdotally I saw it all over Facebook. Friends of mine, as well as their friends, that owned 360s but we're on the fence, now we're more willing to jump into the current gen. That or they decided to go with an X1 over a PS4.

Like I previously said, it's 2015 where your digital purchases carry over whether they're phones, tablets, MP3 players, or PC games. BC matters, now more than it ever has in the digital age.

Looking at the last gen consoles, and the many classics that were released from the past, who wouldn't want their new system to also have the ability to play Ikaruga, Daytona USA, Golden Axe, Guardian Heroes, Virtua Fighter 2, Red Dead, etc? It can all be possible, and it's a beautiful thing.
 
I've used SharePlay more than I used Backwards Compatibility on my 360 and the only reason I've used it a fair bit on Wii U and don't just use the Wii is because it let me transfer the whole console's data including saves and all games. So I can see what they mean. It'd be nice if they did let you stream games on PS Now for free if you authenticated but to say PS Now was built for that from the start is foolish. PS Now was to offer Playstation games on mobile, smart TVs and such. And that's how they're currently positioning it too.

ShinUltramanJ said:
Like I previously said, it's 2015 where your digital purchases carry over whether they're phones, tablets, MP3 players, or PC games. BC matters, now more than it ever has in the digital age.
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This is true though. And a big point for the change to simpler architectures. Having backwards compatibility for PS3 is nigh impossible considering Cell. Have fun building an emulator for it. Save for PS Now, there's absolutely no way it would make sense. Going forward though, it should be both easier and more important.

1- Digital purchases are more commonplace
2- The architectures are more favourable for it
 
PSNow is certainly a BC solution. The fact it is also more than that, at the expense of not running locally, doesn't change that that's what it's providing.

I really wanted Sony to offer a (very low cost) plan to offer BC for owned PSN titles, but everyone seems to chase the 'Netflix' model. Anyone thinking such a service should be gifted to them is an idiot. Sadly bandwidth and infrastructure don't have the same economic model as implementing local BC.

I'm not sure if Sony are just avoiding stating the fact that PS3 emulation is not remotely possible on PS4 hardware, let alone top-end gaming PCs. (Okay, maybe, the early games that didn't use the SPUs at all).

Regardless, I'm pretty sure MS said something to this effect when the PS3 was first announced/released. Since it had BC, MS was hounded about the question, and I'm pretty sure they downplayed the importance with almost identical language. I think Sony may just be parroting MS from 2006 here.
 
I really hope Mr Driller Online and other heavy d-pad use games get approved.. playing these with the improved + d-pad on the Xbox One is going to make a world of difference.
 
Hockeymac18 said:
It seems pretty clear from everything Phil Spencer said that it is a minimal support needed situation. I don't think this is anything like the OG Xbox to 360 BC, which required literal reworking/recoding for some games to work on the 360.

For the vast majority of games, this really should be a few checklist items: get all necessary licensing and permissions from publisher, basic QA (to make sure it works), load files for download for all users. I don't really see what else will needed to be done since as far as the game is concerned it's running on an "Xbox 360".

There will be some games that might never work (Kinect games) and some games that might not work right away (multi-disc games) - but I imagine the solution MS is aiming for is near 100% BC support.
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Yep, and it's not half-done sandbox version, either. It supports every one of the Xbox One features. And it supports every one of the 360 features, including multiplayer with other 360 owners or players who are playing the game on their Xbox One consoles. I was playing Battleblock Theatre multiplayer this morning and it worked fine. No way to tell if I was playing with other people on 360 or on the One - it just worked as you'd expect.
 
I kinda agreen with the guy.. I mean I had a ps4fat and I barely ever used BC... Even though I sang the praises of BC to all my friends. Its a huge deal and its massively convenient. But I would probably hardly ever use it.

Sad :(
 
Of course they are not going to follow. Pieces of shit.

I realize PS3 emulation is probably out of their league, but PS2 emulation would be really nice.
 
The Spoony Hou said:
Of course they are not going to follow. Pieces of shit.

I realize PS3 emulation is probably out of their league, but PS2 emulation would be really nice.
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But they beat Xbox One to market. Sure its streaming and costs money, but Sony figured monetizing a feature that half this thread thinks is useless was the best way to provide BC to the PlayStation nation and beyond. Which is essentially what the PR speech is saying between the lines.
 
methane47 said:
I kinda agreen with the guy.. I mean I had a ps4fat and I barely ever used BC... Even though I sang the praises of BC to all my friends. Its a huge deal and its massively convenient. But I would probably hardly ever use it.

Sad :(
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BC is different from the previous gen because of all the digital content that existed on the last gen ecosystems. There were tons of games I had on my hardrive that I left behind. Games that were in my back catalogue that I just never found time for. If I am able to have a opportunity to play them on my XB1 that's a huge deal to me. Much more then playing a xbox/ps2 disc, because I most likely would have traded it in at some point and gotten value, where my digital games were just lost.
 
I keep seeing people say its because of the cell. That isn't really the whole store its more the split ram and nvidia gpu that are issues.

the cell is power pc based just like the 360 triple core but the 360 has unified ram and a AMD gpu, it makes easier. I'm glad they are doing it people need to not be so salty about more features and options it's a good thing.

I still have all my consoles from ps1 up and og xbox and up so I'm good either way.
 
D'ultimate said:
I've read 10 of the 12 pages of this thread and I keep seeing people defend PSNow as not being the same as BC time after time. It's this it's that but it's not BC.

It leaves me wondering why though. It is a service that provides BC with PS3 games and the only thing that prevents it from truly doing so is because Sony doesn't claim it to be so.

But, why couldn't it be? If they didn't charge those that already own the games and did the same as MS by verifying your ownership of the game through your gamertag and or physical disk it would be their answer to BC for the PS4. They just don't want to do so.

It could still be all the other things it wants to be to those that don't already own the games but the only thing stopping Sony is greed.

It's kinda surprising and disheartening to see so many defend Sony's lack of #4thegamers mentality. It's all about their bottom line and nothing else just like EA Access and we're just giving them a pass. I bet some of these same people are still resenting MS for what they perceive as slights from yrs past even though they seem to be more #4thegamers right now. It sure seems like even when they do good it's dismiss as a negative with no thought.

#forthegamers indeed.
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vin-buc said:
The fact that this is possible is an excellent point and Sony should pay attention (very closely) to this. In essence, the "emu's" are already in place in the cloud (ps3's) we would just need to throw in our disc and voila.
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That would be because doing so would be amazing sink of money to run and is in no way cost effective.

X1 BC runs everything on the X1, some software guys had to put it together to make it work, that goes out to everyone and the only upkeep is software updates for issues and expanding the catalog. PS Now is in the cloud, it is run on servers, and for PS3 servers they had to specifically make the hardware to run the games. The hardware and the running costs aren't free, and they sure as hell don't have hardware for every PS4 user out there to run a PS3 game at the same time.

Anyone who thinks PS now is technnologically similar in any way isn't being realistic.
 
Swass said:
Maybe Microsoft doing this will light a fire under Sony to start getting things done.. the time for complacency is over..
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Having non-native BC in which only a minority of people will use is going to "light a fire under Sony?"

Plus since when has Sony ever been "complacent?"
 
Sanador said:
Backwards Compatibility made WiiU's just fly off the shelves. ;)
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WiiU's Don't have access to PSX/PS2 library.
Be honest, people saying they don't want it is because they don't have it as an option, if Sony put up a HD PSX/PS2 emulator on the store everyone who has said they don't need or want it would download it.
 
soundscream said:
BC is different from the previous gen because of all the digital content that existed on the last gen ecosystems. There were tons of games I had on my hardrive that I left behind. Games that were in my back catalogue that I just never found time for. If I am able to have a opportunity to play them on my XB1 that's a huge deal to me. Much more then playing a xbox/ps2 disc, because I most likely would have traded it in at some point and gotten value, where my digital games were just lost.
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+1 I would also say IMHO the graphical difference isn't that great compared to the jump of previous generations.
 
Zoned said:
PS Now is shit in comparison to backward compatibility. Let's be real here.

I'm hoping for more publishers to jump on this.
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PS Now can improve over-time and be a very viable SaaS product. Backwards capaptiblity for a proprietary piece of hardware on another proprietary piece of hardware has a shelf life of a few years?
 
Biker19 said:
Having non-native BC in which only a minority of people will use is going to "light a fire under Sony?"

Plus since when has Sony ever been "complacent?"
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Compared to Microsoft keeping the OS current for one.. took them nearly a year to get suspend/resume, and dlna support just came a couple days ago.
 
soundscream said:
BC is different from the previous gen because of all the digital content that existed on the last gen ecosystems. There were tons of games I had on my hardrive that I left behind. Games that were in my back catalogue that I just never found time for. If I am able to have a opportunity to play them on my XB1 that's a huge deal to me. Much more then playing a xbox/ps2 disc, because I most likely would have traded it in at some point and gotten value, where my digital games were just lost.
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Not to mention that, last gen we were still getting XBLA/PSN games at 1080, and sometimes even 1080/60. So it doesn't feel as big a step back, as say playing SD PS2/PSX games on PS3 did.

The good thing about PSNow - is it's a future proof BC platform.
Sony implemented PS2 BC on PS3 in several different ways - with different levels of support. But all that work to emulate PS2 on PS3 hardware is likely completely useless now that they're on new hardware. I doubt Sony are just going to branch PCSX2 in order to support it - they'd have better resources for creating a solid emulation system. But they have to choose to spend those resources, and they're doing quite well with current gen games atm, so I'm not sure it'll happen.
 
Swass said:
Compared to Microsoft keeping the OS current for one.. took them nearly a year to get suspend/resume, and dlna support just came a couple days ago.
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Microsoft were way behind on the OS on the very start of this gen for Xbox One. That's why they were constantly getting it up to date.
 
As a PC gamer I'm somewhat shocked that people are so willing to jettison hundreds of dollars in good, prior Gen games with replay value. This is even more true with the amount of digital download games.

Can you imagine the shit storm if Steam updated to Steam 2.0 and you had to buy your good old games all over again?

I mean, hell, I just went back and replayed Witcher 2 to prep for the new one. I'll start a game of Fallout:NV pretty soon too.
 
Swass said:
Compared to Microsoft keeping the OS current for one.. took them nearly a year to get suspend/resume, and dlna support just came a couple days ago.
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Didn't screenshot function on X1 come out about a month or two ago, something which PS4 had since launch?
 
Whether or not you personally use it, this is a brilliant move by MS. The vast majority of 360 owners have not bought a next gen system yet. This is a nice way to entice them to get an xbone.
 
Chill Penguin said:
Whether or not you personally use it, this is a brilliant move by MS. The vast majority of 360 owners have not bought a next gen system yet. This is a nice way to entice them to get an xbone.
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Only to find out most of their games wont be supported just like the OG Xbox BC on the 360...
 
Cidd said:
Only to find out most of their games wont be supported just like the OG Xbox BC on the 360...
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receipts.gif
 
BC is great if it doesn't compromise other things during hardware development.

Nintendo's approach was insane- building an entire console around it. I suppose they're terrified of spending dollars on development so having a familiar environment made sense at the time. No more third parties though.

Microsoft's approach will not be accurate (no software solution ever is) but is nice to have I suppose. I'm guessing tons of games will be broken. You can pick up a 360 for $30 these days and get 100% accurate compatibility though.

Sony would not be able to accurately emulate CELL on PS4. If they wanted BC it would have required a hardware solution from the get go. I would've taken the 200 million they spent on Gakai and used that instead to get the PS3 processors combined onto one die and shrunk way down. I would have then placed one in all PS4s as an auxiliary media processor / CPU2. I'm sure Ken Kutaragi would have done this also. Too late now.
 
trembli0s said:
As a PC gamer I'm somewhat shocked that people are so willing to jettison hundreds of dollars in good, prior Gen games with replay value. This is even more true with the amount of digital download games.

Can you imagine the shit storm if Steam updated to Steam 2.0 and you had to buy your good old games all over again?

I mean, hell, I just went back and replayed Witcher 2 to prep for the new one. I'll start a game of Fallout:NV pretty soon too.
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Pretty much. It only ever adds value for the ecosystem and the player. Never detracts from it

Especially now that a larger percentage of purchases are digital
 
(non ps4 owner here)

If that PS Now (forget the name) is just streaming of old games, whats to say they couldnt just look up your (gamertag) and allow you access to any digital games you previously owned, that seems like its one flick of a light switch away

Im not sure if they can do it with disks as easily as MS did, but still

if you are a playstation owner, dont shrug it off simply because you dont have it, its okay to admit a feature set is better on your "rival" console...

Ive kept my fat ps3 for life because it had backwards compat

If I could pop in my Champions of Norrath II game disk and play online with a friend, I would buy a PS4 this week
 
I see this as a great opportunity for bundling games within a franchise. A developer can now attach a last-gen game (hopefully, for free) with their new game to help spur sales. For example, MS can enable Halo Reach as BC then bundle it with H5; FROM can enable Chromehounds as BC and bundle it with Chromehounds 2. Two games for the price of one is always better for the consumer, and more sales are better for developers.
 
RodanCeros said:
I see this as a great opportunity for bundling games within a franchise. A developer can now attach a last-gen game (hopefully, for free) with their new game to help spur sales. For example, MS can enable Halo Reach as BC then bundle it with H5; FROM can enable Chromehounds as BC and bundle it with Chromehounds 2. Two games for the price of one is always better for the consumer, and more sales are better for developers.
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They're already doing that. Fallout 4 comes with Fallout 3, Rainbow 6 Seige comes with Vegas 1 and 2
 
The only games I need to play on ps3 still are heavy rain and beyond 2 souls...
I started both basically days before I got my ps4 2 years back... I haven't touched my ps3 since...

Oh also valkyria chronicles
 
virtualS said:
Microsoft's approach will not be accurate (no software solution ever is) but is nice to have I suppose. I'm guessing tons of games will be broken. You can pick up a 360 for $30 these days and get 100% accurate compatibility though.
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The Xbox One runs the 360 OS in an app, which games are loaded from. Every game is fully functional right now. They have new issues of course, but they're all completely playable. The emulation is probably as close to 1:1 as you'll get from software emulation.
 
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