That doesn't change what I said. That's still getting help from Green Arrow.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Comic-Con Trailer
- Thread starter GK86
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That doesn't change what I said. That's still getting help from Green Arrow.
pixel monkey
Banned
I enjoyed Endgame as well. But the Blue Boy Scout fans hate it, so it must not be canon now.
pixel monkey
Banned
It's not "help" that he needed. Bruce agreed because Oliver is his friend. Unlike some heroes in the DCU, that actually means something to Batman.
Finaika
Member
Who is using the heat vision on Batman then? Supergirl?
TheKaeptain
Banned
The JL helped him build it.
This is the reason comics are the greatest visual medium.
Hold your L Superboys. You're going to be getting another one next year.
pixel monkey
Banned
Which heroes are those? Most of the heroes look out for each other.
You're trying too hard. lol
That is not heat vision from Superman. There is no way Superman uses it on Batman. Probably something from the rumored
Doomsday
The JL helped him build it.
This is the reason comics are the greatest visual medium.
Hold your L Superboys. You're going to be getting another one next year.
They also helped him build the suit that let him fight Darkseid. I find it all nonsensical. They make Batman and his fights more and more fantastical and I don't like fantastical Batman. Love Court of the Owls, love Scare Tactics, hate Endgame or, at least, the JL fight. Though I haven't liked anything Joker-wise in New 52 to be fair, they made him too powerful.
pixel monkey
Banned
I'd certainly agree on the handling of Joker in Death of the Family, but Endgame was spectacular from beginning to end for me.
And as far as making him too "fantastical" goes, the thing to always keep in mind is that Batman pays the bills. He'll always have the upper hand because he's bloody well earned it.
If not for the Dark Knight, DC would have folded decades ago under the bloat of all their star spangled nonsense.
Ones like the Flash are easy enough: they didn't have their powers yet. Everyone else will probably get the "they were in hiding/covered up by the government" treatment.
....Nah. They would have just picked another hero to push in his place.
They just exist. Just roll with it.
In Endgame he concocts a toxin specifically designed for each individual and administers it to the League. He infects Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and the Flash.
Everyone pays the bills or they get the axe, Batman just brings in more. How has he earned it more than anyone else? Batman has been given more opportunities than any other Hero in existence barring maybe, MAYBE, Spider-Man. He has consistently been on T.V., games, and movies for close to 30 years. He has had more cartoons and live action movies than any other hero.
Is there evidence of this? That DC would've went belly up in the 80s or 90s if not for Batman?
Edit: The reason I dislike fantastical Batman is that it gets away from what makes the character good, mainly the psychology and ingenuity behind his actions and battles. They're just making his fights more and more grandiose to the point that it takes me out of the comic.
More_Badass
Member
Rumor is that
Zod's body is experimented on. So some form of Doomsday or Bizarro
pixel monkey
Banned
Warner believed DC to be deadweight and in 1984 nearly sold the characters to Marvel. I thought this was common knowledge?
EDIT: with the linking http://geektyrant.com/news/2011/8/29/how-marvel-almost-ended-up-owning-dc-comics-superman-batman.html
Where does Batman play into that? Death of Superman happened in early 90s and is one of the best selling comics of all time. Where is the evidence that it was because of Batman that DC stuck around?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm guessing the idea is that Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen in 86 were the big successes that convinced them to keep DC around?
pixel monkey
Banned
It wasn't the comics that saved them. Warner Bros didn't realize what they were sitting on until just a couple years later.
Tim Burton, Michael Keaton, and Batman films and animation saved DC.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's five years after the possible sale to Marvel that Shooter talks about. That's a really long time to be undecided about that arm of the company. I don't think Tim Burton/Michael Keaton/Batman saved the comics side at all. Comics side was already in the clear by that point - by at least 3 years when Batman came out in theaters.
edit: also, in 1997, Warners passed on the opportunity to purchase Marvel (as did Sony)
pixel monkey
Banned
Is there evidence? Certainly. Care to take a look at the box office receipts for the seven Batman feature films released since? How about the revenue generated by Batman TAS or all the licensed videogames and merchandise? How about we compare those numbers to the two features the Blue Boy Scout's put up? Oh, and that Superman N64 game. Can't forget that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This isn't evidence. If Warners was thinking about selling DC in 1984, pointing at stuff that happened in 1989-1992 as the reason they never sold it doesn't make sense.
pixel monkey
Banned
Marvel was a possible DC buyer, but their financial situation in the '90s (and subsequent rebound) is quite clear, and not really what we're discussing.
Batman was released in 1989, but was in pre-production for years. And the release and massive success of The Dark Knight Returns was certainly the impetus for the darker cinematic take on the character.
Where was Superman during the mid to late 80s? The Quest for Peace? Comics no one remembers?
Exactly.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This has nothing to do with your assertion that the Batman movie is the reason Warners decided not to sell DC back in 1984.
Which is an incorrect assertion.
I brought up the Warners could have bought Marvel thing to point out how little any of this line of discussion really matters at all in relation to this particular movie coming out in 2016.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
I am sure it has already been pointed out, but the shot of Wayne Financial Tower being destroyed is the scene from the ending of MoS where Zod first gets his heat vision. During that scene he looses control of himself, waving his head around madly causing his heat vision to slice through the building. In the Batman v. Superman trailer you can see Bruce Wayne's perspective from the outside, as he screams at someone on his cellphone to get out. After this, Zod regaining his composure realizes the building is about to collapse and bails out. Superman follows suit leading to the scene of him flying between the collapsing floors, and finally an exterior shot from the perspective of the people on the ground. This shot is also mirrored in the Superman v. Batman trailer, except the people on the ground are replaced with Bruce Wayne on his cell phone. It's not frame for frame exact, but the building exterior is identical.
EDIT: Actually the shot from MoS of the people seeing Superman fly out of the collapsing Wayne Financial Tower is in the Batman v. Superman trailer, it's just mirrored.
EDIT: Actually the shot from MoS of the people seeing Superman fly out of the collapsing Wayne Financial Tower is in the Batman v. Superman trailer, it's just mirrored.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
pixel monkey
Banned
Who said that? I certainly didn't. Nor did the article. Marvel walked away from that deal.
What I said was the fact that DC has survived, and now thrives because of one man. Bats has been carrying you Superboys on his shoulders for quite some time... the least you can do is show a bit of gratitude.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
there are comics clearly labeled alternate timeline. Elseworlds, Hypertime, Ultimate comics, What if, etc, etc. your fault for not knowing how to tell the difference.
I must commend you on your trolling skills. they make Batman's prep-time look like child's play. but you have been wrong on everything so far. still enjoying it though so keep it up.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah you did. That's how the conversation played out. You specifically brought up Shooter's blog in response to evidence that DC would have folded decades ago, and then further specified that the comics didn't save the comics division.
You're an odd fellow
Yeah I hate it when different writers all have different visions and can tell their own stories with differing perspectives and possibilities using iconic archetypal bases as reference points. GRRR.
pixel monkey
Banned
Meh. Let's be honest, even the biggest Superman fans won't argue that he has more than a mere handful of truly memorable comics. Do you really want to compare the best of the Batman books vs. The Boy Scout's?
This thread now became a popularity contest between Batman and Superman. The whole world knows Batman is more popular and has better content. Why is this being discussed here or any way relevant to this movie?
One of my all time favorites. So fking good.
One of my all time favorites. So fking good.
You brought up a completely different point to my post. Didn't post a thing about Batman. I was just calling bullshit on you saying nobody remembers any of his comics from the 80s.
Haha we know. Someone even made a gif that shows the two of them in conjunction.
This is true for both of them. These characters have been around for 75 years. The average quality of most of their stories ranges in "absolute dogshit" to "good and enjoyable" with a few truly great standouts.
Folks have got to stop acting like Batman writers have been dropping "Year One" level heat month to month for the last seven decades. Most of the Batman comics on shelves right now aren't even that good. lol
You are out of your mind
Superman's best will not only compare favorably, but quite frankly, will actually outclass Batman's best
All Star Superman and Superman Secret Identity are some of the greatest US comics ever published
evil solrac v3.0
Member
that's debatable. it depends on what you like. but I can already see your bias from a mile away.
pixel monkey
Banned
The books weren't where the money was, and the division was seen as deadweight. What part of that is not clear from the history of the company?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The part where they kept hold of DC Comics for five years for apparently zero reason before the Batman movie saved the comics arm of the company.
That whole part is really unclear.
But you're also suggesting people give a completely fictional character their gratitude, so I'm not sure that clarity is a priority on your side of the discussion.
What? Scott Snyder's recent run alone is better than any Superman comic released in a long time.This statement is just not true. Batman has superior content. No shame for superman fans to accept that. The only comic book character that is comparable to Batman in terms of quality is Daredevil. Superman is not in the same league. I love Superman though.
Obviously everything is debatable like everything in life. I am sure some would prefer Kanye West to Beethoven too. Ever comic book character will have a fan. It is a fact that Batman is bigger than superman popularity wise, has generated more money, has more critical acclaim etc.. and of course I am biased. Do I have to like Batman and Superman equally? I also dont know why this thread is devolving into a popularity debate when the facts are there for everyone to see. My opinion or your opinion does not matter. The public has spoken already.
Anyways I should not be adding to the sidetracking of the conversation which should be focused on the trailer. I will not comment on the popularity and quality debate any more.
There's more than movies and games. Superman
Has been a consistent high source of income for DC and Warner since the 30s on merchandise alone. He certainly helped keep DC afloat in their rougher years.
pixel monkey
Banned
I'm not suggesting you, or anyone for that matter, mail a thank you card to Gotham. Merely that the Superboys who've now apparently overrun this thread acknowledge where the company's been, where they are now, and the character that picked them up by their red bootstraps to bring them here.
But by all means, please continue tossing toys from your pram, and hurling personal insults from behind your keyboard.
I said comics. People hone in on Synder's run and conveniently forget how totally forgettable Tec and most of the spin offs were (and likely still are, given that people still only ever mention Synder. I mean shit, I have to hunt for people who read "Batman and Robin," and that one was actually good!) for the longest or how Batman: TDK and Red Hood & The Outlaws were actually shit. It's like if Superman fans focused only on Morrison's run or Pak's current run on Action and never talked about what a turd "Superman" was until Johns got a hold of it this year.
And again, my statement was about the full 75+ year history of both characters. Batman, like Superman, appears in multiple books every month. When you stretch a character like that, not everyone is going to give you a quality story. Most aren't. Which means the vast majority of Batman stories are probably not that great. It's not a big deal; that's just how it is. *shrug*
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Batman is a fictional character, and Gotham is a fictional city. The people who led DC Comics to success in the late 1980s are real people. Not Batman. Because Batman isn't real. People who helped write and edit Batman comics were a very big part of that success, absolutely. The people who concieved and executed the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the people who hired the people who effectively relaunched the line shortly thereafter, the editors, letterers, inkers, writers, the people cutting the licensing deals, the people designing the merchandise, the people making the toys. But you are arguing with people as if they share your very strange mindset that these fictional characters are autonomous, sentient beings, and not make-believe heroes shaped by people like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, George Perez, John Byrne, Marv Wolfman, Mike Gold, Neil Gaiman, Jeanette Kahn, Paul Levitz, Dick Giordano, etc. etc.
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