I'm not a troll account. I just disagree with you.
Tom Brady's Suspension Appeal News
- Thread starter TheLostBigBoss
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CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
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Yet you refuse to recognize or respond to our facts regarding this instance. We'd take you more seriously if you didn't have your fingers in your ears screaming "la la la la."
Bucs fan here. Rule violations have happened in literally every NFL game that has ever been played. From traditional penalties like holding and pass interference to more nefarious things like PED use and salary cap violations. No matter what team you're a fan of, your team has done some shady shit. To treat the Patriots as a pariah is naive at best and reeks of jealousy, especially since there's no actual proof that a violation occured in this debacle. Just man up and admit your team sucks. It's okay to be a fan of a bad team.
Ok now I am changing sides.
The Pats are clearly cheating frauds.
Be interesting to see what their fumble stats are going forward now that this trick is out in the open. They are pretty amazing at cheating so it will be interesting to see what tactic they come up with next (followed by a minor punishment and the defenders that say that it doesn't matter and that eveyone does it or that Goodell is biased etc).
Their fumble stats were only different from everyone else's when someone decided they'd create a report that removes all games and situations that involved the Pats in which fumbles occur more regularly.
Weird 538 checked it out and also agreed that the Pats fumble at an absurdly low rate.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/
forgeforsaken
Member
Did they account for the original guy excluding all dome teams? Because that was nonsense. It's not like dome teams don't play outdoor games.
So, if they did manipulate the ball, would you be happy if they received the same penalty as other teams who committed this equipment violation? I believe it comes with a max fine of $25,000.
They say they do their own calculations.
Take that as you will. But their fumble rate looks miraculously low according to 538.
No because they obviously did it over an extended period of time.
This is the NFLs fault for trusting the teams to prepare the balls but the Pats clearly abused that trust. The NFL should only allow their incompetent staff to prepare the balls, like they do in every other sport. It was so idiotic to listen to Brady and Peyton in the first place.
That shows they fumble a lot less than other teams also in games in which they have no control over the pressure of the footballs. Maybe they're just, ya know, good.
Even though such a punishment isn't written in the rules? I thought you, as a Steelers fan, would be more sensitive to punishments without any rules to back them.
forgeforsaken
Member
Thats one way of interpreting the stats.
Another way is what 538 opined:
They do admit that the link in speculative because the Pats are probably never going to admit to doing it. Though you really have to go through some mental gymnastics to believe that in my opinion.
Everyone can continue seeing what they want to see. 99% of America is going to see the Pats as cheaters for the rest of eternity. And a loyal assembly of Pats fans in the NE area will forever believe that their team was wholly innocent. No one is going to change their mind.
BronsonLee
Member
Oh god, bionic and Jabee have formed the most devastating tag team combination in the history of football
He states at the beginning that he is a Pats fan.
Are we to assume that 538 us biased or incompetent now?
Roberto Duran
Member
All bionic needs to do is call Brady a cheating cunt.
And many of us won't care what the Patriots did with their footballs. It's a minor equipment violation and should have been punished as such, just like in every other instance of a team breaking that rules.
forgeforsaken
Member
538 links to him as well btw.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/
The fumble stats and the admittedly unscientific statements from former pros kind of show that it is not a minor violation. I think most people would agree that a deflated ball is easier to grip and catch. I think it is pretty subjective as to whether or not it is easier to throw. Now how much of an advantage it is is certainly debatable. I don't think it is a huge advantage personally but I am sure it helps.
I think the intention is what bothers most people and the fact that the Pats continually get caught cheating and then cover up and deny everything. I think if the Pats had throw their ballboys and a coach under the bus from the outset nothing would have come from it. But they of course denied it and now their reputations are fucked for all eternity and Goodell is looking like the incompetent boob we all knew him to be.
A lot of this is all Goodell's fault for allowing the qb's to be able to influence the ball. Only a moron could not see the potential for problems by allowing for this.
As both a Patriot and Goodell hater I am pretty pleased with everything coming out of this!
That article comes before they did their own analysis. Everyone was piling on the dude at the time (kind of similar to this thread).
Not that I studied the matter intensely. I just generally trust what 538 posts. They seem to think the stats show something fishy. The Pats fan statistician disagrees.
Could you interpret this chart for me? Must just be athletic outliers like Bonds or Armstrong.
You know why the Patriots have low fumble rates? Because unlike most teams in the NFL they don't put up with shitty play. If you lose the ball your off the field. Maybe the rest of the league should stop aiming for mediocrity and implement some personal responsibility.
darkazcura
Member
Could you interpret this chart for me? Must just be athletic outliers like Bonds or Armstrong.
So what is the reason for Atlanta and Baltimore being so good relative to the competition albeit still worse than NE? If anything all that chart is showing me is that there may be a wide gulf in practice time spent focused on fumbling across the NFL. The difference between second best and the bottom 5 is still absurdly different.
If people want to say it has nothing to do with practice, then that would be proven if the gulf between 2-32 wasn't so large. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Someone explain why Tom is so handsome.
Could you interpret this chart for me? Must just be athletic outliers like Bonds or Armstrong.
If the Patriots only have access to their balls at home, why are their fumble rates identical at home and on the road? Are the other teams deflating their balls for them during road games? I mean, it can't possibly be that they don't fumble as often because they're well-prepared and well-coached. Of all the ill-conceived conspiracy theories people use to explain the Patriots' success, this one might actually be the dumbest.
The interpretations of these stats are going to be fabulous.
I don't think most people will even understand the scale used in either axis (me included).
darkazcura
Member
I totally understand the scale. It still shows a huge gap between 2-32 regardless of the Pats meaning the argument that it is about practice methods may be valid.
They're better than your team. Now you explain why they fumble even less in games where they don't control the balls.Could you interpret this chart for me? Must just be athletic outliers like Bonds or Armstrong.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
And to think the pats would have even better stats if they didn't have Ridley coughing the ball up every other touch!
darkazcura
Member
That was always overstated..Ridley waas honestly fine, but he may be a key example of how absurdly strict BB is. He had everyone believing Ridley was waaaaay worse than he actually was, lol.
Roberto Duran
Member
I also don't trust anyone who abbreviates Baltimore as "BLT"
Weird how the answer to every accusation of the Pats being cheating scumbags is almost always a variation of they hate us cuz they ain't us.
Pretty sure we hate them because they are cheating fucks with a coach that is supremely arrogant and condescending.
The Red Sox were juiced to the hilt like every other MLB team but no one cares because they don't have a villain as perfect as Bellicheat.
So why are the numbers better when they don't control the footballs?
Almost as weird as you avoiding the question.
Good question.
I have one for you. Why do cheating allegations always follow the Pats? We have seen other dominant teams in the past few decades. I only seem to recall these allegations sticking to you know teams and people who cheat.
Keep putting out those fires my friend. Lance Armstrong would be proud of you.
Hahaha there is a huge gulf between 10000+ and ~500.
You probably didn't read the heading either.
"Odds of Team's Fumble Rate Occurring By Chance"
Almost all of the NFL teams fall in a range where one could say that their fumbles occur by chance. ATL and Balt are reaching outlier territory which is to be expected. NE is an extreme outlier which is way, way out of line with what you would expect. Are they that good?
Fact is all teams focus on holding on to the ball. Fastest way to hit the bench on any NFL team? Turn the ball over, especially with rbbc.
So the Pats have no control over their balls on the road? Who prepares them?
Belichick is a sith and he uses the dark side to secretly deflate the footballs but only in the last few years.
So why are the numbers better when they don't control the footballs?
As compelling a theory as any! Lol.
Teams prepare footballs for away games but it is the home team who controls the footballs.
Edit: if you read the wells report you will see that McNally had both the colts & patriots footballs with him.
I am not good at circumventing the rules.
Not my forte.
Probably want to ask someone in Foxboro.
If you want to ask how to make fun of sports teams and their fans I would glad to assist you.
So your argument is that the patriots are very good at not fumbling therefore they must cheat?
No you asked me how they cheat on the road like I was some expert in cheating.
Ok so your theory is they cheat better on the road then at home. They're so good at cheating, that sometimes they intentionally use less effective cheating measures.
Your reasoning is bullet proof. Good job.
The still are allowed to prepare them as they see fit. Really only the K balls are under extreme lockdown from all I've read.
I'm with Bionic in that where there is a will there is a way. How they did it, I don't know.
The numbers don't lie. It's an extreme statistical outlier, beyond which we've ever seen in the NFL.
Are the Pats that amazingly good? Do they have a savant teaching how to not fumble? Punts and kickoffs are probably statistically insignificant in relation to actual carries and receptions.
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