Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion

wait, are people saying that the reason for this is that fear can't play carry any more?

Then he should retire and coach. Fear isn't some god of carry that's irreplaceable, he's just a consistent veteran player. If they did this because they need Fear to move to support, that pisses me off.
 
i think the aui stuff was probably decided before TI, they just waited until afterwards to not affect team morale
 
I wouldn't be surprised if they told him early to let him know and be prepared and then announce it another day, and then he mentioned it on Twitter.
 
man i feel sorry for aui, he seems like such a nice guy and gets constantly fucked despite being one of the stronger players of whatever team he's on

i'd really like to see secret pick him up for position 4 and move kuro back to 1
 
NormalFish said:
wait, are people saying that the reason for this is that fear can't play carry any more?

Then he should retire and coach.
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Nah.

That is not how you continue to make millions of dollars. He's been playing Dota since the cash prize for the biggest tournament was $100. No fucking way he walks away now that he's help build a scene that is producing this kind of money for top place finishers. Not until his fucking arm falls off. I'd rather have a half healthy Fear than a full version of most players. I hope Fear makes as much money as he possibly can for however many years he has left (which won't be many).
 
NormalFish said:
wait, are people saying that the reason for this is that fear can't play carry any more?

Then he should retire and coach. Fear isn't some god of carry that's irreplaceable, he's just a consistent veteran player. If they did this because they need Fear to move to support, that pisses me off.
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I think consistent veteran players might be the most precious resource in professional Dota. There just aren't many of those.

That said I imagine that one of the primary reasons that RTZ wanted to come back to EG was to play alongside Fear. In that scenario Aui is the odd man out.

aeolist said:
man i feel sorry for aui, he seems like such a nice guy and gets constantly fucked despite being one of the stronger players of whatever team he's on

i'd really like to see secret pick him up for position 4 and move kuro back to 1
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I don't think he necessarily needs to be a 4 wherever he ends up. Dude is talented.
 
BlastProcessing said:
I don't think he necessarily needs to be a 4 wherever he ends up. Dude is talented.
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yeah i remember him playing a good 1 position on dignitas but i think his best heroes fit into that farming support role. it's a style that's remained consistently strong for a long time now so i'd think teams would recognize its value.
 
aeolist said:
man i feel sorry for aui, he seems like such a nice guy and gets constantly fucked despite being one of the stronger players of whatever team he's on

i'd really like to see secret pick him up for position 4 and move kuro back to 1
Click to expand...

As would I. Kuro is a good ass carry player....but I dunno. It is kind of a large step down going from RTZ to Kuroky.

If they could get him, I would love to see Dendi replace RTZ.
 
The TI winner making a change really isn't the worst idea when you look back at what's happened to IG, Alliance, and Newbee after they won. Dota changes so much patch to patch; the team that was the best 6 months ago can mediocre if the new style of play doesn't suit them.

All this stuff makes it really difficult to have a favorite team though. This is two years in a row where the team I liked was blown up after TI.
 
The range of Fear's playable heroes is very wide There's all sorts of tricks and cheese ppd can play with drafts with Fear @ 4 that he couldn't get away with if it was anyone else out there playing that position.

RTZ is all about raw talent. Him coming on has nothing to do with Fear or his performance at carry. One of the stories from this TI was how much more even the top tier teams were in terms of talent. ppd is doing what he can to give his team a talent edge by picking up one of the very best players in the world, even if it means having to dismiss one of the very best players in NA to do so.
 
BlastProcessing said:
I don't think he necessarily needs to be a 4 wherever he ends up. Dude is talented.
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yeah, I remember this post from late last year:

submitted 8 months ago by timbakt00
Dotabuff's ranking system has two requirements for a ranking to show up for a particular hero, that hero must have 30 games played and atleast one game must be played in the past 30 days.
Aui_2000 has 20 heroes that match the criteria.
Top 100 : 20 (YES EACH OF THE 20 HEROES ARE IN THE TOP FREAKING 100)
Top 20 : 19
Top of the heap : 7
TLDR: every hero that aui is eligible on for a dotabuff ranking, he is in the top 100. For over a 3rd of them, he is in fact at the top.
Click to expand...
 
Trickster said:
Might be a game of thrones spoiler for some

http://i.imgur.com/katcgp9.jpg

Stolen from reddit
Click to expand...

invoker-laugh.gif
laugh.gif
cm-vi3.gif
charm_facepalm.gif
 
SecretMoblin said:
yeah, I remember this post from late last year:
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I keep saying it. Aui's skill set is wasted at the 4/5 position. He's a farmer at heart and it shows in just about every match he's in other than his Skywrath games. He likes farming, he likes creating space. I think Aui should be someone's 1 or 3 position player. I think he'll shine much more brightly there. Fear is much more flexible and I think his skillset translates better to strong support performances (or any other position you put Fear at). But Aui has always struck me as a 1 or 3 position player since before his TI days and on Dignitas when he was critiquing the best carry players in the world and talking about their lack of efficiency.

And as I said last night, with a TI championship on his resume and so many teams in flux, he should be able to choose whatever position he wants to be in and enjoy himself. He's good enough. But again, I don't think the 4/5 roles are natural fits for his play style, regardless of EGs success with him.
 
Fragamemnon said:
The range of Fear's playable heroes is very wide There's all sorts of tricks and cheese ppd can play with drafts with Fear @ 4 that he couldn't get away with if it was anyone else out there playing that position.

RTZ is all about raw talent. Him coming on has nothing to do with Fear or his performance at carry. One of the stories from this TI was how much more even the top tier teams were in terms of talent. ppd is doing what he can to give his team a talent edge by picking up one of the very best players in the world, even if it means having to dismiss one of the very best players in NA to do so.
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Like what?

Also, literally the exact opposite was true about TI. The team full of superstars finished 8th while a team hardly anyone knew finished 2nd and completely set the tone for the tournament.
Dreams-Visions said:
I keep saying it. Aui's skill set is wasted at the 4/5 position. He's a farmer at heart and it shows in just about every match he's in other than his Skywrath games. He likes farming, he likes creating space. I think Aui should be someone's 1 or 3 position player. I think he'll shine much more brightly there. Fear is much more flexible and I think his skillset translates better to strong support performances (or any other position you put Fear at). But Aui has always struck me as a 1 or 3 position player since before his TI days and on Dignitas when he was critiquing the best carry players in the world and talking about their lack of efficiency.

And as I said last night, with a TI championship on his resume and so many teams in flux, he should be able to choose whatever position he wants to be in and enjoy himself. He's good enough. But again, I don't think the 4/5 roles are natural fits for his play style, regardless of EGs success with him.
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I think being able to outfarm your position is a really useful tool that opens up a ton of different strategies. Ideally your 1-4 position players should all be excellent at farming when they need to. Also, EGM was the best greedy 4 in dota during TI3, but he was a non-factor most games when he was given higher farm priority as a 3 for Tinker, so that sort of switch doesn't always work out.
 
PPD captained good enough to lead them to a TI win, surely he knows what he's doing? Also, he states it's a team decision, doesn't he?

Aui got kicked a millionaire. Surely a highly disappointing experience but he's not exactly starving anytime soon so whatever.
 
aeolist said:
yeah i remember him playing a good 1 position on dignitas but i think his best heroes fit into that farming support role. it's a style that's remained consistently strong for a long time now so i'd think teams would recognize its value.
Click to expand...
He also played carry as a standin for Fnatic alongside demon playing mid in D2L

I think they finished second after LGD

aui
notail
fly
+2

let's go
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I keep saying it. Aui's skill set is wasted at the 4/5 position. He's a farmer at heart and it shows in just about every match he's in other than his Skywrath games. He likes farming, he likes creating space. I think Aui should be someone's 1 or 3 position player. I think he'll shine much more brightly there. Fear is much more flexible and I think his skillset translates better to strong support performances (or any other position you put Fear at). But Aui has always struck me as a 1 or 3 position player since before his TI days and on Dignitas when he was critiquing the best carry players in the world and talking about their lack of efficiency.

And as I said last night, with a TI championship on his resume and so many teams in flux, he should be able to choose whatever position he wants to be in and enjoy himself. He's good enough. But again, I don't think the 4/5 roles are natural fits for his play style, regardless of EGs success with him.
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i think good supports are a lot harder to find than good 1/2 position players, and aui's ability to find unbelievable farm and avoid dying as a support is way more important to most teams than his carry play.
 
Imp the Dimp said:
PPD captained good enough to lead them to a TI win, surely he knows what he's doing? Also, he states it's a team decision, doesn't he?
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I don't think it's as much knowing what you're doing or even making a better team as it is them really wanting Arteezy and Aui being the one player they could drop.

E-Sports are real sports now that people are making ruthless decisions to get the best talent
 
fear plays a better overall 4 than aui by far

if teams werent allowed to kick players aui would still be on c9 and none of you would be talking about him b/c hed be on a last place team
 
KingKong said:
I don't think it's as much knowing what you're doing or even making a better team as it is them really wanting Arteezy and Aui being the one player they could drop.

E-Sports are real sports now that people are making ruthless decisions to get the best talent
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If you wanted to be really ruthless about it. PPD would have been the support you drop for Arteezy.

1.09 said:
fear plays a better overall 4 than aui by far

if teams werent allowed to kick players aui would still be on c9 and none of you would be talking about him b/c hed be on a last place team
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Really? By far? I don't doubt you but can you back that assertion up in any way? In the current meta Aui has been the best 4 I have ever seen.
 
except ppd plays 5 whereas aui plays 4. fear wants to play 4. not only that but ppd is a much better drafter and captain than what aui could be.

dac15_fantastic.gif
 
whats the current meta for 4 positions? what will be the future meta for 4s?

Regardless fear has probably the largest hero pool in Nadota, and having such a versatile player for your farming support can only be a boon for EG.

the 4 position is one of the most varied roles in the game, and a lot of times is a pivotal part of your draft plan along with your 3. Having fear and universe on these roles is fucking ownage
 
1.09 said:
except ppd plays 5 whereas aui plays 4. fear wants to play 4. not only that but ppd is a much better drafter and captain than what aui could be.

dac15_fantastic.gif
Click to expand...

How do we know what Fear wants to play again? We know that Arteezy said that he wouldn't have gone back to EG if Fear wasn't there and we know that kicking Aui and shifting Fear to the 4 is the way that they decided to do that, but we don't know that Fear prefers playing 4.

We will see if the future bears this out, but I don't see any reason that Aui couldn't be a top tier drafter.
 
BlastProcessing said:
How do we know what Fear wants to play again? We know that Arteezy said that he wouldn't have gone back to EG if Fear wasn't there and we know that kicking Aui and shifting Fear to the 4 is the way that they decided to do that, but we don't know that Fear prefers playing 4.

We will see if the future bears this out, but I don't see any reason that Aui couldn't be a top tier drafter.
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b/c hes not gonna play 5 when theres ppd

i know people like aui, trust me i like the guy too, but business decisions are business decisions, and this was a really good move for EG.

Only logical reaction here is to feel sorry for aui, and nothin else
 
1.09 said:
Regardless fear has probably the largest hero pool in Nadota, and having such a versatile player for your farming support can only be a boon for EG.

the 4 position is one of the most varied roles in the game, and a lot of times is a pivotal part of your draft plan along with your 3. Having fear and universe on these roles is fucking ownage
Click to expand...

ppl read this
 
sixghost said:
There is nothing more precious in professional Dota than solid captains. Guys like PPD and Puppey and untouchable. Look at what happened to Navi.
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I agree with your point but Navi wasn't exactly doing great even before Puppey/KKY left.

I dunno why people are doubting Fear at the 4 when Sumail and RTZ on the same team is probably way harder to make work.
 
1.09 said:
whats the current meta for 4 positions? what will be the future meta for 4s?

Regardless fear has probably the largest hero pool in Nadota, and having such a versatile player for your farming support can only be a boon for EG.

the 4 position is one of the most varied roles in the game, and a lot of times is a pivotal part of your draft plan along with your 3. Having fear and universe on these roles is fucking ownage
Click to expand...

Universe and Fear are obviously great players. They both had amazing performances at TI. When I look at TI there where many teams that had Offlaners and Carries that were putting up stellar performances. What Aui was doing at the 4 was far more rare and I would argue far more valuable.

I think Aui showed remarkable flexibility and his hero pool gave PPD an amazing drafting edge.
 
Fear hasn't played 4 position in years, not sure how you can even begin to make the claim that his support is better than aui's when the skill level of players continues to rise and specialization becomes more and more important
 
sixghost said:
There is nothing more precious in professional Dota than solid captains. Guys like PPD and Puppey and untouchable. Look at what happened to Navi.
Click to expand...

Navi fell apart while Puppey was still Captain. Secret had the most success when Puppey stepped down as captain. Captains are important, but they aren't everything. There have been mediocre teams with great captains, great teams with mediocre captains and everything else inbetween. But I can't think of a top tier team that didn't have a dominant support duo.

By monkeying with that, EG is taking a risk. I think it will pay off for the organization by dint of the money that Arteezy brings in alone. He is the most marketable player in NADota.
 
BlastProcessing said:
I think consistent veteran players might be the most precious resource in professional Dota. There just aren't many of those.

That said I imagine that one of the primary reasons that RTZ wanted to come back to EG was to play alongside Fear. In that scenario Aui is the odd man out.
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I absolutely agree that veteran players are super valuable, but their value is unique in that it can be utilized outside of the game. He'd be well suited to being a coach.
 
The way aui reacted shows that EG immensely mishandled the situation, regardless of who is right or wrong.

Like I said before, fear is extremely versatile and will have no problem playing 4 but it will take some time for him to get as good at the role as aui. Milk is right, dota overall level has improved by a huge margin and while fear is a monstrous player, aui has shown time and time again that he is one the best 4s in the world.

I agree with tobear, the move was probably decided before TI. I think the timing of the announcement is perfect, it was just handled very poorly, especially if the rumors about the team not discussing this with aui face to face are true.

From an esports perspective, I think the decision is a good one. I think EG gain more by getting RTZ and keeping fear than what they lose by kicking AUI (as good of a player as he is). This might affect their overall level in the next few weeks but ultimately, I think the team will be stronger with this lineup if they stick and practice together.

One last thing, Aui is sadly a very underrated player in my opinion. One just has to look at the recent facts. C9 is performing far worse since he left the team and EG won TI since he joined. He plays in a position where it is more difficult to notice his impact so I guess it's understandable. Very rarely will a support be under the spot light, unless you are FY rubick, it's the nature of the role.
 
Artanisix said:
Fear hasn't played 4 position in years, not sure how you can even begin to make the claim that his support is better than aui's when the skill level of players continues to rise and specialization becomes more and more important
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he's got that old man wisdom tho
 
Of all my years playing Dota I never really saw the appeal of playing AM, boring AFK farming hero I thought.

Just played my first game with him and boy is he fun to play, farm jungle pop out wreck in a time fight and then hop right back in and see how fast you can the farm up. Also pretty damn satisfying blinking in hitting some heroes and then Mana Voiding them to hell when they try to run!

Also my dick is hard for IceIceIce going to Secret, that would be just grand.
 
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