SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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Pretty sure he just bitches at Venom to deflect any suspicions as to his own guilt regarding the outbreak.

Yeah. He was grasping at straws to make BB lok like a bad guy. "How can you trust him to lead you when he is killing your friends!!!! Ignore me and focus on hating BB! Please!"

It just makes any actual points he may have (like DD being a wolf and the Mother Base staff being violent nasty people) seem like he's just crazy and deflecting.

I do like him being a bad person because it makes sense why he'd keep making these weapons even though he claims he is doing it for peace. No, you aren't. You're doing it because you like it and you're a bad person.
 
The whole Gray Fox stuff was unnecessary. I agree.

I have no problem with Elisa's prophecy. At least she was a psychic. Way better than the "The sons are destined to fight against each other" bullcrap that we got at the end of MGSV.

But I'm not speaking about that. Portable Ops is the game where we find out how Zero got his hands on the Legacy. Without it, we are left with a huge hole and Zero just mysteriously became the most powerful man on Earth for no reason.

Portable Ops is smart.

It's a story about Big Boss and Major Zero being implicated as a traitors, and Big Boss defending himself and Zero despite Zero actually being a traitor.

Big Boss saves Zero's ass without knowing Zero's about to make a heel turn. So good.
 
I had over 400 people when this happened so I wasn't sure if I had the Kikongo or Russian strain.

Thankfully I picked right but I would've raged so much if 400 of my guys got infected because the game couldn't just give me one guy who knew Kikongo and not Russian.

That whole mechanic was terrible, though. They should've made it easier to put those people in the sickbay rather than going one by one.



I would go as far as to say you don't do a chapter system for just one chapter.



I wish BB would've killed him, he deserved death more than the countless ways I had killed up to that point. All the people I had killed up to the point where just normal people who had done nothing to BB but then he lets Huey leave? Wut

Did he have to let him leave because he does shit related to the plot in future games? I don't recall him over showing up in MGS 1, 2 or 4 but maybe he did some behinds the scene stuff, I dunno.
You can select multiples and put them all into quarantine. I thought it was one by one but you can press X to select them and then move them all at once.

It's still a pain in the ass to do though.
 
Anyone remember that map chart Kojima showed off on his Alert Show last year I think? I think that chart implied there was supposed to be multiple big maps.
 
If his vision really was that large, I almost feel like he should've tried his hand at episodic releases.

Of course, that might've been what Ground Zeroes was originally testing, and Konami priced it out of the segment he was aiming for.

Kojima clearly botched this games development in some way. Anyone can have scope and vision, a good project manager is able to see what's realistic given X budget and time and do what they can with it.

I don't blame Konami for cutting off funds and getting the game out the door, that's their job to ensure that their games have some type of profit.
 
Kojima clearly botched this games development in some way. Anyone can have scope and vision, a good project manager is able to see what's realistic given X budget and time and do what they can with it.

I don't blame Konami for cutting off funds and getting the game out the door, that's their job to ensure that their games have some type of profit.

Unless you know the exact details, everything else is conjecture on our part. I also patently disagree with you since there is such a thing as cutting out the legs from beneath a project manager, but ya know, lets not let logic get in the way with your current angerfest over the game.
 
Something interesting to note is that Otacon sounds and looks like his father, but acts a lot more like his mother. Melodramatic and obsessed with his interests to a fault.

On that note, Strangelove's Boss love bordered on creepy. Her final recording in the pod about Hal being their child was, uh... something.
 
If his vision really was that large, I almost feel like he should've tried his hand at episodic releases.

Of course, that might've been what Ground Zeroes was originally testing, and Konami priced it out of the segment he was aiming for.
I was thinking the same thing. So disappointing that were never gonna get the real story of BB and outer heaven
 
I have a few theories about the unfinished nature of this game.

There are rumors that a third open world environment was cut, and I recall multiple sources stating that there would be several locations to visit in game, implying more than just two. There's the island Eli escapes to in the cut episode 51, which we know for a fact was into development enough to have cutscenes taking place there. My guess is that the "repeat" missions in Chapter 2 were originally supposed to be new missions at Eli's Lord of the Flies homage, culminating in a final showdown with Sahelanthropus driven by young Mantis and Eli. This would have led to a different ending and ended Eli's and Mantis' plot threads.

My second theory is something I think probably changed as the game was being made, rather than being cut at the end. We begin with a flash forward to Outer Heaven, and all of the trailers point to this being Big Boss' fall from grace. I don't think the Eli story was meant to be the end - I believe we were originally supposed to either retake control of BB himself after a timeskip, or complete more missions with Venom leading up to the Outer Heaven uprising. Part of my reason for suspecting this is not only the marketing for the game and the fact that Venom is there in OH at the beginning and the end of the game, but in that in one of the very first trailers, we see one of the very last cutscenes in the game, which is Big Boss on his motorcycle. That entire scene seemed to be leading up to something else.

The chapter system makes no sense because there are only two chapters. I think Kojima originally truly intended to fill the gap between Peace Walker and MG1 with multiple chapters, perhaps 3 or even 4 or 5 of them, but the sheer expense of the game made him fall short of his vision, so he was forced to compromise. I also bet that Konami was very upset with where he wanted to go, how much he had spent on just the first chapter or so of the game, and how much left he still wanted to do. He also made decisions like creating a brand new engine, hiring high profile Hollywood actors for mocap and VA, which likely cut into the budget a LOT. Then they realized he was going to do another project, also likely of a huge budget, with P.T., and they got scared and pulled the plug, causing the game to be rushed to shelves and left largely incomplete.

I feel like Kojima's vision for this game was insane. In a good way. Too insane to be fully realized, to the point where it got cut down both during conception (possibly several times) and then again towards the end of its development. These are just my own theories, and I have nothing to back them up other than what I've said, but I feel like something went down during development because the marketing for this game and the finished product don't seem to agree with one another.
This all sounds very plausible. It definitely feels like this wasn't all there was meant to be and they cobbled together what they could before the deadline. Hopefully we get someone who was there to speak out eventually, I'd be fascinating to hear.
 
Every MGS since MGS2 had to be rethought or cut in some major way. MGS2 was supposed to be an almost real-life simulation, where everyone in the Big Shell would be a "real person", every guard would go to sleep, to the toilet, eat, etc. In the tanker, when you shoot the ice cube bottle, they melt slower if they fall close to one another. You were supposed to be actually impacted by meteorological conditions (more than just a mere sneeze). There was a big attention to detail that kinds of disappear after the tanker chapter.

MGS3 was supposed to be much more like MGSV, minus the MB/recruitment, but in terms of how you infiltrated the world and had a less linear environment it was supposed to be much like it.

MGS4 was supposed to be about open world, dynamic battlefields where the tide could change based on your actions, the environment would be fully destructible with no clear place to hide safely, etc. Turns out it was linear, and the "dynamic" environment was extremely limited, plus after chapter 2 all of that is thrown away.

So really, this MGS to me feels closer to Kojima's intentions since many years ago when it comes to gameplay. But obviously the game was supposed to be bigger and got cut. I'm sure there was supposed to be multiple chapters.

That being said, no big deal. He'll keep making games, be it at Konami or not, and MG will continue. Kojima has done some really good stuff, PT is a good example of something different he did recently. Whatever happens next, it should be fine. Kojima Productions might have been too big for him to handle, he doesn't need KP to make great games.

edit: Ingsoc related to https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBoTu6rA1QeRBTUPJ5nLUHg ? Surprised this was updated recently.

Was this Miller? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HgH72UYOwI It fits with his Orwellian attitude in chapter 2, the Big Brother stuff.

There is a video with a black hound barking at MGS references.

I think a thread should be made about this...

KoqK77R.jpg
 
I for one, and as dumb as it is to say, is hoping there is more story DLC later on. Hopefully. It just fuckin ends. Chapter 2 and thats it? There is no sense of closure, just BB riding away on his bike doing god knows what, and Venom doing his own outer heaven. it truly is a magnificent game, but it feels unfinished in so many ways.
 
Something interesting to note is that Otacon sounds and looks like his father, but acts a lot more like his mother. Melodramatic and obsessed with his interests to a fault.

On that note, Strangelove's Boss love bordered on creepy. Her final recording in the pod about Hal being their child was, uh... something.

Well Strangelove had a thing for women too. If you listen to Paz's recordings she goes into the ways Strangelove creeped on her.
 
If the bloody demon skull-face from the launch trailer is in the game that would be an awesome skin.

I'm pretty disappointed with how Quiet disappears from the list of usable buddies after mission 45. I wish I could use her again as I replay previous missions. Really a bummer.
 
I see a lot of people theorise that hiring Kiefer must have cost quite a bit but wasn't one of the reasons why Hayter got the boot was because he was asking for a lot of money? If so then it'd only make sense that Kiefer ended up costing less than what Hayter demanded.
 
Huey is representative of how Big Boss' arc should have went.

To think people were rooting for Huey to get with Strangelove in Peace Walker, then to see what happens.

Yeah, he 'became a demon' the most.

I see a lot of people theorise that hiring Kiefer must have cost quite a bit but wasn't one of the reasons why Hayter got the boot was because he was asking for a lot of money? If so then it'd only make sense that Kiefer ended up costing less than what Hayter demanded.

I think Hayter wants to think that money was the reason they didn't hire him. I doubt they were paying him anything near what they paid Kiefer.
 
I see a lot of people theorise that hiring Kiefer must have cost quite a bit but wasn't one of the reasons why Hayter got the boot was because he was asking for a lot of money? If so then it'd only make sense that Kiefer ended up costing less than what Hayter demanded.

it's what hayter said himself in that interview
 
Something interesting to note is that Otacon sounds and looks like his father, but acts a lot more like his mother. Melodramatic and obsessed with his interests to a fault.

On that note, Strangelove's Boss love bordered on creepy. Her final recording in the pod about Hal being their child was, uh... something.

Strangelove was bi and leaned more towards women. I donno how Huey managed to get her being the pussy whiny bitch he was.
 
I see a lot of people theorise that hiring Kiefer must have cost quite a bit but wasn't one of the reasons why Hayter got the boot was because he was asking for a lot of money? If so then it'd only make sense that Kiefer ended up costing less than what Hayter demanded.

rofl, there is zero chance Hayter was asking for more money than what Kiefer ended up getting.

irrc Hayter didn't even get a call about the game

it's what hayter said himself in that interview

Oh really? I've got to find that.
 
Looking back on it, when Tomokazu Fukushima left the series took a complete nose dive for me.

MGS4 was fucking horrible and Peace Walker was also pretty bad story and writing wise and so is MGSV for the most part.

Atleast MGS4 had a decent plot that was interesting to some extent, poor narrative and editing notwithstanding
 
You know what's stupid?

Before the release of the game everyone was wondering how BB became the villain he was in MG1 as it didn't quite make much sense (apart from the fact that he was already a warmongering warlord that gave in to the stories about his legend) . So after this game we are to believe that BB never became the villain from MG1 but Venom did. Which if you think about it, puts us back to the exact same situation we were in before MGS5.

Except now the question is...how did Venom became the villain from MG1 ???

Are we to ignore that there was never a transformation simply because it's not the real Big Boss anymore? Throughout the length of the game he seems no different than BB, no better or worse. We don't see him as a psychopath, nor do we see him as a super good guy, just the usual BB who didn't care much about Kaz's revenge and wasn't driven by it like Kaz but instead was just interested in building his military nation (again something that BB would have done because he did it in the past and did it again after this game). We see absolutely no evidence that the original BB wouldn't have done and as such see none of this "transformation".

Granted BB was already a dick but that's a different story.
 
You know what's stupid. Before the release of the game everyone was wondering how BB became the villain he was in MG1 as it didn't quite make much sense (apart from the fact that he was already a warmongering warlord that gave in to the stories about his legend) . So after this game we are to believe that BB never became the villain from MG1 but Venom did. Which if you think about it, puts us back to the exact same situation we were in before MGS5.

Except now the question is...how did Venom became the villain from MG1 ?

Are we to ignore that there was never a transformation simply because it's not the real Big Boss anymore? Throughout the length of the game he seems no different than BB, no better or worse. We don't see him as a psychopath, nor do we see him as a super good guy. Just the usual BB who didn't care much about Kaz's revenge and wasn't driven by it like Kaz. We see absolutely nothing that the original BB wouldn't have done and as such see none of this "transformation".

Granted BB was already a dick but that's a different story.

Exactly, we're left again with more questions than answers. Missing link my ass.
 
You know what's stupid. Before the release of the game everyone was wondering how BB became the villain he was in MG1 as it didn't quite make much sense (apart from the fact that he was already a warmongering warlord that gave in to the stories about his legend) . So after this game we are to believe that BB never became the villain from MG1 but Venom did.

Which if you think about it, puts us back to the exact same situation we were in before MGS5, except now the question is...how did Venom became the villain from MG1 ? Are we to ignore that there was never a transformation simply because it's not the real Big Boss anymore?

Throughout the length of the game he seems no different than BB, no better or worse. We don't see him as a psychopath, nor do we see him as a super good guy. Just the usual BB who didn't care much about Kaz's revenge and wasn't driven by it like Kaz.

Punished "Venom" Snake is a hero. He doesn't let any innocents get hurt or killed because of his actions (even Big Boss got Chico killed due to being connected to him). He doesn't torture anyone. He stops a Metal Gear and a potential plague.

There is no reason why he becomes the dude in MG1.
 
You know what's stupid. Before the release of the game everyone was wondering how BB became the villain he was in MG1 as it didn't quite make much sense (apart from the fact that he was already a warmongering warlord that gave in to the stories about his legend) . So after this game we are to believe that BB never became the villain from MG1 but Venom did. Which if you think about it, puts us back to the exact same situation we were in before MGS5.

Except now the question is...how did Venom became the villain from MG1 ?

Are we to ignore that there was never a transformation simply because it's not the real Big Boss anymore? Throughout the length of the game he seems no different than BB, no better or worse. We don't see him as a psychopath, nor do we see him as a super good guy. Just the usual BB who didn't care much about Kaz's revenge and wasn't driven by it like Kaz. We see absolutely nothing that the original BB wouldn't have done and as such see none of this "transformation".

Granted BB was already a dick but that's a different story.

Yes. In terms of character development this game is absolutely static. It has all the aspects of a side story, where none of the events in this game contribute to progressing the series overall narrative or insight.
 
Punished "Venom" Snake is a hero. He doesn't let any innocents get hurt or killed because of his actions (even Big Boss got Chico killed due to being connected to him). He doesn't torture anyone. He stops a Metal Gear and a potential plague.

There is no reason why he becomes the dude in MG1.

Pretty much, if anything he gave more shit about his comrades, even the grunts..than the real BB who just left Kaz. He even let Huey go away....I mean come on this isn't the villain that we were looking for.
 
I thought the real BB was still giving Solid orders over the comm in MG1. Venom is just the guy he fights at the end. Or did I misinterpret that?

One thing I actually really like about Venom's existence is that it makes it more plausible for BB to command FOXHOUND and build Outer Heaven at the same time.
 
Funny thing about Huey is,
MGS4= man im so tired of Otacon.
PW=wow Huey is way more interesting than Otacon.
MGSV= fuck Huey, I miss Otacon he wasn't so bad after all.
 
Pretty much, if anything he gave more shit about his comrades, even the grunts..than the real BB who just left Kaz. He even let Huey go away....I mean come on this isn't the villain that we were looking for.

But this was about real BB becoming a villain. And as you said, he left Kaz. He wasn't there in Afghanistan to save his friend. Instead, he left everyone behind. All his MSF comrades. These guys are fighting for someone, risking their lives who isn't even him. He fucked every single one of them.

Maybe this is what Hideo wanted us to show. Granted, its weak. I'd rather get a more straightforward approach with BB becoming a ruthless killer, even killing African children for diamonds. Basically selling his soul to the devil because he finally has lost faith in the system and goes berserk.
 
Kojima is a genius game designer and a hack writer. As he's gained more and more influence we get to see more and more of what his actual writing is (as opposed to, say, Tomokazu Fukushima's writing), and it sucks.

Portable Ops shows that when Kojima has less of an influence on the script you can have a chapter in the saga of Metal Gear Solid that develops characters without relying on shitting the bed with crazy nonsense.

Metal Gear Solid should have a dedicated writer that isn't Kojima, like Shinkawa as the series art designer.

Metal Gear Solid without Kojima is something I have a great interest in seeing.

The fact that Tomokazu Fukushima was also involved in the MGS game with the least story complaints i.e. MGS3 is proof of that. Wasn't MGS3 in development quite a bit before Kojima decided to drop in? Makes me think how much of the game is his team's and how much is Kojima.
 
I thought the real BB was still giving Solid orders over the comm in MG1. Venom is just the guy he fights at the end. Or did I misinterpret that?

Yep. He was apparently also leading Solid Snake into traps for the fun of it.

But this was about real BB becoming a villain. And as you said, he left Kaz. He wasn't there in Afghanistan to save his friend. Instead, he left everyone behind. All his MSF comrades. These guys are fighting for someone, risking their lives who isn't even him. He fucked every single one of them.

Maybe this is what Hideo wanted us to show. Granted, its weak. I'd rather get a more straightforward approach with BB becoming a ruthless killer, even killing African children for diamonds. Basically selling his soul to the devil because he finally has lost faith in the system and goes berserk.

The game doesn't show real Big Boss as a villain. It shows him as a coward wanting a vacation.
 
I thought the real BB was still giving Solid orders over the comm in MG1. Venom is just the guy he fights at the end. Or did I misinterpret that?

One thing I actually really like about Venom's existence is that it makes it more plausible for BB to command FOXHOUND and build Outer Heaven at the same time.

It could be anything at this point. Venom and BB working together, Big Boss screwing over Venom, the Patriots screwing them both over. Who knows, MGSV is the worse missing link ever.
 
But this was about real BB becoming a villain. And as you said, he left Kaz. He wasn't there in Afghanistan to save his friend. Instead, he left everyone behind. All his MSF comrades. These guys are fighting for someone, risking their lives who isn't even him.

Maybe this is what Hideo wanted us to show. Granted, its weak. I'd rather get a more straightforward approach with BB becoming a ruthless killer, even killing African children for diamonds. Basically selling his soul to the devil because he finally has lost faith in the system and goes berserk.

Yea but I'm still not entirely convinced in that was this not about how BB became the villain we know from MG1 and on..no? Except that guy doesn't exists. I mean everyone wondered how he could be a villain in MG1 when he wasn't like that before, he did become a villain elsewhere but it's not what everyone was wondering about was it.

I donno man, I better not spend more time thinking about this crap. lol
 
Punished "Venom" Snake is a hero. He doesn't let any innocents get hurt or killed because of his actions (even Big Boss got Chico killed due to being connected to him). He doesn't torture anyone. He stops a Metal Gear and a potential plague.

There is no reason why he becomes the dude in MG1.

- Treats his men like family and tries to better them.
- Attempts to stop Kaz going down the path of revenge that will destroy him.
- Gives Quiet the benefit of the doubt and becomes friends.
- Puts all the of his men who have parasites out of their misery, feels bad about it, and saves the world from an outbreak
- Constantly forgives Huey for being a scumbag and stops him from being executed in face of everything he's done.
- Tries to be a good (not) father to Liquid.

Up there with Solidus as the hero we deserve. I'm sure there's stuff I forgot.
 
- Treats his men like family and tries to better them.
- Attempts to stop Kaz going down the path of revenge that will destroy him.
- Gives Quiet the benefit of the doubt and becomes friends.
- Puts all the of his men who have parasites out of their misery, feels bad about it, and saves the world from an outbreak
- Constantly forgives Huey for being a scumbag and stops him from being executed in face of everything he's done.
- Tries to be a good (not) father to Liquid.

Up there with Solidus as the hero we deserve. I'm sure there's stuff I forgot.
The worst part about all of this is that there's scenes where it looks like he's doing evil shit and you think things are about to pop off. "Oh, he's shooting kids! This is where he goe... nope its a bucket." "Oh shit, he's going to stab Eli, NOW he's going ba... floor stab."

Kojima kept faking us out and it felt like he was building to this huge explosion of evil, but we never got it. This wasn't the story of Big Boss becoming a demon, it was the story of how his Medic was a pretty okay guy.
 
- Treats his men like family and tries to better them.
- Attempts to stop Kaz going down the path of revenge that will destroy him.
- Gives Quiet the benefit of the doubt and becomes friends.
- Puts all the of his men who have parasites out of their misery, feels bad about it, and saves the world from an outbreak
- Constantly forgives Huey for being a scumbag and stops him from being executed in face of everything he's done.
- Tries to be a good (not) father to Liquid.

Up there with Solidus as the hero we deserve. I'm sure there's stuff I forgot.

I was desperately waiting for Venom to snap and just turn heel and start giving no fucks about his men.

Big Boss wouldn't give a shit, he barely give a shit about Chico as evident that he let a kid join his personal army.

The more I think about this, the more it's kinda obvious that Venom wasn't Big Boss, cause he sure as hell didn't act like Big Boss in Peace Walker.
 
Perhaps Hideo had MGS6 in mind, with real BB being back in the game to shoot straight for Zanzibar Land. Everyone hating him for his antics in MGSV, lol. You're actually playing as Kaz, who needs to revive Skull Face in order to send a pin to Zanzibar Land.
 
I remember him talking about talking inspiration from Breaking Bad, Kojima must have been talking about Huey all this time with the demon stuff.
 
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