Blooddimond
Member
Except that won't be happening probably since kojima will no longer be writing metal gear after this game.
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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stump sock
Member
do you get Quiet back after she decides to take a dip in the chlorine? I assume "yes" since I have the butterfly emblem, it's not the event that makes her go away for good.
Kojima isn't touching this again.
I'm curious to see Metal Gear Gray Fox to be honest.
Konami knows it's the only thing that will sell without Kojima.
I only fought it once, so i'm sure i missed some stuff.
The REX to me felt like you couldn't just shoot it, since it had the radon thing, and then the cockpit, not to mention the limited control scheme allowed for less flair in what the fight could be.
The only moment where the Saha fight felt special to me, is when Pequod came in to help.
I'm sad that, for example, the escape with the jeep was just a cutscene.
It'd have been cool to have a fight that span the whole Afghanistan map for example.
'it's different so I hate it'
I feel like I'm having PTSD flashbacks about arguing with RE fans post-4. It's possible for me to like both approaches but apparently I'm not a Real MGS Fan because I don't think your opinions are objective fact. If MGS5 was a traditionally structured MGS game of course I'd want codecs.
Now, if it were up to me and this game had infinite budget I'd have preferred that the Ground Zeroes interactivity was at least somewhat maintained and had Snake be as active in the tapes as he was in Peace Walker. By the end of the game I almost forgot that LB could make Miller/Ocelot say something other than A SOVIET SOLDIER. But reality is a harsh place, maintaining that kind of density over such a huge game isn't exactly reasonable.
As opposed to how dumb self-hypnosis was used in previous games...I LIVE ON THROUGH THIS ARM. As for the skills powerlevel thing that's not unbelievable at all, they specifically say he was already a great soldier before the transformation. Sure, it's convenient that some Gray Fox level guy happened to be on the chopper but not impossible. They came up with the 'phantom' plan after the fact because he could handle it, they didn't orchestrate him being on the chopper.
Anyways I personally like the idea of the 'big boss legend' being overrated and that some other guy could stand in. It's reminiscent of how Big Boss didn't feel like he earned his title, or how Solid Snake feels about his own 'legend'.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Exactly! For all the talk about how this is the MISSING LINK and all that, the only question it answered is one that nobody anywhere has ever asked.
But what if Kojima and Konami hug it out? They patch up their issues and we could have MGSVI in no time since the Fox engine is good to go.
Believe
I feel like people talking about how betrayed they feel because Sniper Wolf and Solid Snake doesn't show up, or things like that, are missing the point. Even taken entirely on its own terms, MGSV's plot fails in tons of places.
God I love how it plays, though.
Totally agreed.
The way Quiet's relationship with Snake develops is probably the most anime thing in the game. She's given a mission by the organization who saved her life to bring down the people who critically injured her, but it all falls apart because she fell in love with her target. Snake shows her such understanding by capturing her and bringing her to his military base to be experimented on and tormented by a group of soldiers who fear and despise her. Now she'll do all sorts of naughty poses for him and him alone, while treating everyone else violently if they try to get close to her.
It reminded me a lot of how bad anime make their female characters fall deeply in love with male protagonists just because the guy treats them with the barest modicum of respect. It's a really weak part of her development, hamstrung even more because, between silent protagonist Snake and actually silent Quiet, they never have any meaningful onscreen communication prior to the stupid rain scene.
God I love how it plays, though.
Totally agreed.
The way Quiet's relationship with Snake develops is probably the most anime thing in the game. She's given a mission by the organization who saved her life to bring down the people who critically injured her, but it all falls apart because she fell in love with her target. Snake shows her such understanding by capturing her and bringing her to his military base to be experimented on and tormented by a group of soldiers who fear and despise her. Now she'll do all sorts of naughty poses for him and him alone, while treating everyone else violently if they try to get close to her.
It reminded me a lot of how bad anime make their female characters fall deeply in love with male protagonists just because the guy treats them with the barest modicum of respect. It's a really weak part of her development, hamstrung even more because, between silent protagonist Snake and actually silent Quiet, they never have any meaningful onscreen communication prior to the stupid rain scene.
I don't even see a comparison between this and MGS4.
Aside from "i don't like either", they have little in common, including why they're disliked.
MGS4 retconned a bunch of stuff and made it lame, it retroactively "ruined" many plot elements (for some people anyway) and it was a kitchen sink of nonsense and fanservice, a compulsive nostalgia masturbator.
MGSV's plot is completely neutral to almost anything in the series, its existence is irrelevant to 90% of the events before and after it (twist or no twist).
Not to mention its scarcity in anything related to narrative elements, since there's barely any cutscene, and 50% are dedicated to looking up Quiet's ass.
They are really the polar opposite of each other.
Zombie James
Banned
In the MGS Database it says this part was actually Liquid taking over Ocelot. After MGS2 Ocelot got the arm removed and replaced with a cybernetic arm and then got hypnosis to make himself believe he was Liquid.
Ghostmaster
Member
And MGS V has the theme of losing identity and what it means to lose it. Kojima was never bad because of his themes, he is bad because he constantly gets distracted and adds a bunch of inconsequential stuff. The only time he managed to do it consistently was with MGS3, but even then it almost slipped through his fingers, when the story started to veer more towards the Philospher's legacy, than the relationship between Boss and Big Boss.
I meant it in the way that MGS story as a whole took a turn for the worse with its plot threads, not that it has a bunch of loose ends.
That's not how mass production works, ray isn't an AK 47, if the Patriots have the capabilities and facilities to produce so many of them, then how does anyone even stand a chance in MGS4. To be fair though that's pretty much how MGS works, that Philospher's legacy is obviously infinite and it's a wonder how they didn't think of building a moon base.
It's a dumb death, because it's a cheap death. Her death serves to further Otacon's ark. She is the exemplar of the Women as tropes thing. There is no reason why Vamp had to kill her, we don't need to hate vamp any more than we do, hell we even don't fight him or see him again after that in MGS2. There is no reason for her death other than, well Otacon already lost a woman he loved in MGS 1, how about we make it 2.
But after Quiet, it's not like we should expect anything better out of Kojima. He almost ruined the Boss with her unzipping her suit to show you her scars, and then conveniently forgetting to zip it back up when she's fighting you.
You see, and then people say that MGS V twist is not "believable". This is some Stephen King's IT ending suspension of disbelief explanation.
It isn't that there are a lot of them, it's that they are given arbitrary abilities and weaknesses when it suits Kojima. It's not hard to follow, it's awful for the pacing. There was no need to cram all that exposition at the very end.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Play the Paz stuff, then you will be ashamed of your words and deeds afterwards. She is on the third floor on the medical platform, door has a blue light.
This is the most amazing thing to me. If you call huey he'll talk about its attacks, which is all well and good, except none of his godsamn dialogue references the fact that you can wreck its weak spots to deal way more damage than if you try and just pound away at its armor
Ghostmaster
Member
The twist would have honestly been far better, if it was actually Volgin that became Big Boss. The "V has come to" line would be better. The man on fire could be his inner self fighting the hypnosis or whatever with the help of Psycho boy. Oh, and we also wouldn't have his comatose body just lying on motherbase doing nothing. Also it would be more in line with him being a good soldier.
Death Metalist
Member
I'm in the boat that had the feels when she died as I never saw it coming. I felt that they gave you just enough time to make you know her that by the time she dies it has impact well atleast for me anyway, probably because her final talk with Otacon really added alot. Plus, we get a really memorable and awesome moment between Snake & Otacon.
Man, now I wanna replay MGS2 again.
Lilalaunebaer
Member
pakentmaybe.gif
Will do, not today though. She´s just there? Or do i have to do something to trigger it?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
She's there, then you need to bring her 10 photos that you'll get by bringing back those lost mother base soldiers. Use phantom cigar after you gave her one photo, then it will reset and you can give her the next photo.
Ghostmaster
Member
I'm in the boat that had the feels when she died as I never saw it coming. I felt that they gave you just enough time to make you know her that by the time she dies it has impact well atleast for me anyway, probably because her final talk with Otacon really added alot. Plus, we get a really memorable and awesome moment between Snake & Otacon.
Man, now I wanna replay MGS2 again.
It always felt to me like a worse rehash of the Sniper Wolf death. Sniper Wolf was also more tragic since it's snake that actually kills her, and the music is more awesome.
I didn't really need to see Otacon moping in two back to back games. Maybe it was made worse for me since I played MGS 2 soon after MGS 1.
Also MGS V makes all the shit that happens to Otacon even worse.
Lilalaunebaer
Member
Thanks. Good thing, i have already got all those lost mother base soldiers.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
good, then use the phantom cigar mode. Sometimes that won't work though, so you'll have to use the chopper and come back to MB.
Death Metalist
Member
Oh yeah totally, Sniper Wolf's death is iconic. However, Emma's death also has it's place and is memorable but I totally agree in Sniper Wolf's death being far better as well as way more impactful. Maybe so for you, I played MGS2 in 2002-2003 so I had to wait for it haha.
MGS5 just makes Otacon look more like the good guy and further cements the notion of just how SS & Otacon avoided all the fucked up things their parents did.
You can tell when someone completely missed the point of MGS2 when they complain that "this thing in MGS2 feels like it's a shitty version of a similar thing in MGS1" as if that's not 100% intentional.
Lilalaunebaer
Member
Will do, thanks.
Ghostmaster
Member
Oh please stop, the whole simulation thing of Shadow Moses is a dumb excuse for the hack story in MGS 2.
I think it's a matter of seeing MGS2 in context. When the game was being made, Kojima really intended for it to be the last in the series. Those ridiculous plot threads weren't meant to be resolved. The entire point of the ending is not to get caught up in those ridiculous conspiracy theories and plot points that make no sense and to look through to the subtext of the game underneath.
As a game, it executes its themes far more coherently than MGSV, which barely has an idea to stand on.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
That wouldn't make sense. Big Boss knew the possibility that Venom would eventually regain his memory. They wouldn't create a doppelganger out of Volgin, that would just spell trouble for Big Boss in the future. One of his most loyal soldiers and "friend" isn't likely to screw him over.
Ghostmaster
Member
Perhaps, it does make all the power that the Patriots have seem more believable. But with the added weight of MGS 4 and even 3 it makes the story far worse.
Sure, it would take far more effort to make it work than what I laid out. But I still think it would have been more poignant, than having the medic guy be the one. Turning his greatest enemy into himself until they both became villains.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Oh god Kojima has a model in this game
Someone with the PC version make this happen please
It's not like it's some retroactive justification or something, it's part of the intent from the start and spelled out super clearly in the game proper that the whole thing is meant as a metaphor and message to the player. Snake straight up says at the end "don't obsess over the words so much, just try to find some meaning in it." You're not supposed to take the plot literally.
Of course, MGS4 retroactively shat the whole thing up by ignoring MGS2's own advice and taking the plot literally, but MGS2 on its own is very clear about its intentions.
Man, kojima should have really used burnt big boss with shrapnel to show us the face of medic boss BEFORE surgery (hospital mirror scene)
The fact that he was horribly burnt in the explosion would actually MAKE SENSE that he gets plastic surgery and bb/zero abuse this to create venom.
The fact that he was horribly burnt in the explosion would actually MAKE SENSE that he gets plastic surgery and bb/zero abuse this to create venom.
Ghostmaster
Member
As I mentioned previously, sure if it was the last game it would have made far more sense, but yeah both 3 and 4 make it all seem dumb.
Man, kojima should have really used burnt big boss with shrapnel to show us the face of medic boss BEFORE surgery (hospital mirror scene)
The fact that he was horribly burnt in the explosion would actually MAKE SENSE that he gets plastic surgery and bb/zero abuse this to create venom.
Would make more sense than tearing off his skin and replacing just after waking up from a coma.
Death Metalist
Member
Yet, it was because of MGS2's ending of "The Patriots were dead 100 years ago" is why we have MGS4. I mean, you can't just drop a bomb like that and walk away lol. I love all of the games that were done by Kojima excluding PW because everyone of them had something awesome/special as well as memorable. Enjoyed GZ and now enjoying TPP a whole lot even though the plot is not up to the first four in terms of memorable characters & insane truth bombs/revelations.
Edit: Snake's speech at the end though is probably my favorite thing in two, among other things.
Did you just say you love all of them but NOT Peace Walker? Insanity, Peace Walker is fantastic.
I think it's just a matter of perspective at that point. For me it's not a fault of MGS2 that later games fucked it up, it's a fault of later games for fucking MGS2 up.
Fuck peace walker.
Even skullface and his lust for one cutscene revenge had more personality than the trifecta of amanda, shit kid chico and Kojima loli fantasy paz.
Death Metalist
Member
I liked PW but didn't love it. I disliked the singing A.I's bosses that were just bullet sponges and I played half of the game wrong. When I knew that I had to grind for better POW's and shit, that's when I started having fun. Bosses were literally taking 30 to 40 minutes for them to die lol so I really didn't have a good time until I changed the way I played but overall at the end even with the story it was pretty ok(No to QTE cutscenes tho). I liked it compared to all the others, even TPP which I was worried about hating but I ended up loving it much more than PW. Probably because it plays like a dream with way, way more options and tools for you to do things.
"We need to pass the torch, and let out children read our messy and sad history by its light"
vs.
"I'm Big Boss, and you are too, carry that with you"
lol
Well I still think a lot of the hate congress from not playing as Snake. Which I didn't mind.
I wonder if those same people will rag on V for not playing as Big Boss? Or is it fine because you look like him (certainly don't sound like him, Sutherland stinks)?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
MGS2, Kojima's truly masterpiece.
Personally I think MGS 1 is the masterpiece and the best. It can stand on its own as a story and has the best characters and great but simple twists. Plus Rex is great.
Then of course it could just be nostalgia.
That said, as much as I love MGS2 as a whole the tanker section is one of the best pieces of gaming ever.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Ray is cooler.
Death Metalist
Member
I fucking love that post credits scene and it's not just the speech itself but the music, imagery and everything is just UGH, so good.
While I liked the message of V, it doesn't compare anywhere near 2's message or how it was presented even.
I'm a Rex dude but even I admit that I can't help myself from yelling "YES!" when I see Ray's dive in the water, heck it's entrance in 4 is spectacular with how it dives, slides on the fucking floor then jumps to adjust itself and stand.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Ray is awesome but you fight so many of them that the impact is lessened.
MGS2 is kojimas masterpiece.
I think MGSV is next. Despite the ending, it advanced the gameplay by years and brought the crazy attention to detail and crazy to the open world format. I also think the game is something of a technical marvel - much like mgs2.
Im not gonna writeoff the fun ive had with the game in the last 50 or so hours just because kojima threw a half baked twist in the end. There is always utter bullshit in his games (mgs2 liquid arm, for example).
Man all of this just makes me appreciate Mgs2 even more. Maybe that was Kojima's plan all along.
V3n0m Sn4k3
Member
So... does anyone know if codenames affect completion %?
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