Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

The Sony XBR850C (the 55" version at least; don't know about the other sizes) just dropped another $100 in price today. It's now at $1298. I went ahead and ordered.

For people who own this model, how is "game mode" on it? Does the picture take a hit with it turned on? If so, is it even noticeable?
 
My living room for the next 3 days. LG's 9500 vs Samsung's 9500! Looking forward to testing them both. Flat vs curved! OLED vs FALD!

Both are awesome sets, but I can already tell that neither is perfect.

20151114_141402.jpg
 
Dewoh said:
My living room for the next 3 days. LG's 9500 vs Samsung's 9500! Looking forward to testing them both. Flat vs curved! OLED vs FALD!

Both are awesome sets, but I can already tell that neither is perfect.

20151114_141402.jpg
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Once that OLED gets moving that FALD will fall straight to the floor in terms of PQ.
 
thuway said:
Once that OLED gets moving that FALD will fall straight to the floor in terms of PQ.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been using the OLED for the past 2 weeks, and I love it to death. But, as I've said in this thread, the input lag is pretty harsh. It's pretty noticeable jumping back and forth between the two TVs. The Samsung just snaps and responds virtually perfectly. But the LG just has the tiniest bit of float.

The blacks on the Samsung are pretty damn good though. Some might not believe it, but when they're both projecting a perfect black screen I'd say that they're neck and neck - giving the OLED just the smallest victory nod. BUT - man, that LED bloom is UGLY. I didn't notice it during the day, but last night in a perfectly black room, whenever there's a spinning loading icon (like Treyarch's in Black Ops 3), or I open up the menu or move the pointer around, it's like the whole corner lights up. Oddly, I don't notice any bloom when it's just a logo in the middle of the screen - like when Forza's or CoD's shows up - but when it's the sides or corners then BLOOM.
 
Is the m series good to get if I'm getting a WiiU to play with it as well? will 720p titles look washed out on a native 4K, am I better off getting a low input lag 1080p tv instead?
 
John Rabbit said:
going by my original list: picture quality rates higher (PQ, upscaling, 4:4:4 support) than the Vizio, and it's currently cheaper. low lag is not the end-all-be-all issue for me to be concerned with. although looking now, apparently the Sony has over double the lag of my Viera (17ms) so i actually have no idea how noticeable that will be.
Click to expand...

Did you say you saw the Sony XBR 850C for less than $1,000?

The issue of whether the Sony XBR 850X is clearly better than the Vizio M series is still confusing. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2006170-vizio-m70-c3-sony-xbr70x850b.html
 
If people are looking for a Sony X850C, black Friday weekend might be your friend. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 65" for $1800, 55" around $1100, and perhaps 75" for around $3000.
 
How does GAF feel about the "Sony - 65" Class (64-1/2" Diag.) - LED - 2160p - Smart - 3D - 4K Ultra HD TV - Black" Model: XBR65X900C? It's $2,500 this week at Best Buy and wanted to jump..

2639146_I15E.png
 
Haven't even gotten my TV in the mail yet but now I'm wondering if I should have gone with a lower quality 55" flat instead of my 48" Samsung JU7500. Nah...
 
Dr. Feel Good said:
How does GAF feel about the "Sony - 65" Class (64-1/2" Diag.) - LED - 2160p - Smart - 3D - 4K Ultra HD TV - Black" Model: XBR65X900C? It's $2,500 this week at Best Buy and wanted to jump..

2639146_I15E.png
Click to expand...

Well it's an IPS panel so better viewing angles, but worse blacks. Also they have had some edge lighting issues with them. I'd buy the x850c instead, but that's me.
 
J-Rzez said:
Well it's an IPS panel so better viewing angles, but worse blacks. Also they have had some edge lighting issues with them. I'd buy the x850c instead, but that's me.
Click to expand...

Hmm, thanks. I'm not too worried about black levels, but I am concerned on the lighting. Recent Amazon reviews say it is fixed, but not sure.. the unit is beautiful in Best Buy.
 
J-Rzez said:
Well it's an IPS panel so better viewing angles, but worse blacks. Also they have had some edge lighting issues with them. I'd buy the x850c instead, but that's me.
Click to expand...

They revised them so the edge bleeding isn't any worse than on a typical LED-LCD. QC on the original run was laughably poor, though.

Dr. Feel Good said:
Hmm, thanks. I'm not too worried about black levels, but I am concerned on the lighting. Recent Amazon reviews say it is fixed, but not sure.. the unit is beautiful in Best Buy.
Click to expand...

I want to say they were revised in August but it may have been before that. At any rate, I doubt that anyone would still have any pre-revision leftovers at this point.
 
 
I'm thinking about picking up the LG 55EG9100 this week. I had the last gen of Panny plasmas and I still managed to get image retention mostly due to playing FFXIV. The mini-map, action bar, and quest log got burned in a bit.

Does anybody know if that's also going to be a problem with OLEDs? I've heard that you need 150 hours of normal viewing to condition the screen but haven't been able to confirm.
 
Dewoh said:
Yeah, I've been using the OLED for the past 2 weeks, and I love it to death. But, as I've said in this thread, the input lag is pretty harsh. It's pretty noticeable jumping back and forth between the two TVs. The Samsung just snaps and responds virtually perfectly. But the LG just has the tiniest bit of float.

The blacks on the Samsung are pretty damn good though. Some might not believe it, but when they're both projecting a perfect black screen I'd say that they're neck and neck - giving the OLED just the smallest victory nod. BUT - man, that LED bloom is UGLY. I didn't notice it during the day, but last night in a perfectly black room, whenever there's a spinning loading icon (like Treyarch's in Black Ops 3), or I open up the menu or move the pointer around, it's like the whole corner lights up. Oddly, I don't notice any bloom when it's just a logo in the middle of the screen - like when Forza's or CoD's shows up - but when it's the sides or corners then BLOOM.
Click to expand...

To get the input lag down on the LG, A use game mode but more importantly Assign that HDMI to a a game device. it's a step most miss and assume Game mode is enough. Once that's done the input lag isn't perfect but doesn't cause any issues with regular SFIII & 4 tournaments we do :)
 
Yhippa said:
I'm thinking about picking up the LG 55EG9100 this week. I had the last gen of Panny plasmas and I still managed to get image retention mostly due to playing FFXIV. The mini-map, action bar, and quest log got burned in a bit.

Does anybody know if that's also going to be a problem with OLEDs? I've heard that you need 150 hours of normal viewing to condition the screen but haven't been able to confirm.
Click to expand...

OLED is still acceptable to screen burn and image retention but far far less then plasma. You still need to be careful but certainly not babysit in the same way you do with a plasma
 
Pagusas said:
Says someone that probably hasn't even used a highend fald. Their is no "flat on face" area when dealing with these good of screens.
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Disagree, after having a VT50, followed by FALD Samsung & LG and then going to the OLED none of the other panels even compare. The VT50 was actually better for image pefection though. No screen uniformity issues at all where as the OLED does suffer at 2-5% greys. Everything else though, the OLED beats them quite easily.
 
Pagusas said:
Says someone that probably hasn't even used a highend fald. Their is no "flat on face" area when dealing with these good of screens.
Click to expand...

As someone who has been trying to find a FALD or OLED to replace a pioneer Kuro, I disagree. Every FALD I've tested has come up very short outside of daylight situations.

OLED is better than the Pioneer, but still has some issues that I'm willing to wait on to get sorted out.
 
I just ordered my 55" XBR850C from Amazon yesterday and Best Buy updated their Black Friday ad and added this TV to it. It will be $1,199 starting on November 26th (Black Friday) - November 28th at Best Buy. I contacted Amazon about it to see if they will refund the $99 difference since they do price matching for TV's and they are refusing to.

So I'm trying to figure out, what's the point of having price matching if you're not gonna price match?
 
dolabla said:
I just ordered my 55" XBR850C from Amazon yesterday and Best Buy updated their Black Friday ad and added this TV to it. It will be $1,199 starting on November 26th (Black Friday) - November 28th at Best Buy. I contacted Amazon about it to see if they will refund the $99 difference since they do price matching for TV's and they are refusing to.

So I'm trying to figure out, what's the point of having price matching if you're not gonna price match?
Click to expand...

I've had this TV for the past five months and love it.

You're in for a treat!
 
dolabla said:
I just ordered my 55" XBR850C from Amazon yesterday and Best Buy updated their Black Friday ad and added this TV to it. It will be $1,199 starting on November 26th (Black Friday) - November 28th at Best Buy. I contacted Amazon about it to see if they will refund the $99 difference since they do price matching for TV's and they are refusing to.

So I'm trying to figure out, what's the point of having price matching if you're not gonna price match?
Click to expand...

They don't price match limited time promotions like BF sales. It's standard policy at just about every retailer. Gotta buy on BF to get BF prices.
 
Yhippa said:
I'm thinking about picking up the LG 55EG9100 this week. I had the last gen of Panny plasmas and I still managed to get image retention mostly due to playing FFXIV. The mini-map, action bar, and quest log got burned in a bit.
Click to expand...

The last couple of generations of Panny plasmas had some problems with image retention, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. People will argue about it, but I had a couple of the last gen models and they both had real issues with it, even after they had been used for a while.
 
pezley said:
OLED is still acceptable to screen burn and image retention but far far less then plasma. You still need to be careful but certainly not babysit in the same way you do with a plasma
Click to expand...

This isn't necessarily true for a few reasons.

1. Some plasmas were more prone to image retention than others and their susceptibility to it generally decreased as hours of use increased.

2. There isn't a large enough pool of users/use cases of large screen OLED technology to make a reliable blanket statement in this vein.

If you wanted anecdotal evidence that puts OLED behind plasma technology in terms of combatting IR/BI, one can simply go to any Best Buy that has had the same EG9100 running LG's own demonstration contentd since launch. All of these units have "LG OLED" retained in a large font across the middle of the screen from that being displayed for about 5-10 seconds every 2 minutes in the demo loop. (*but again, I'm not stating one is any worse/better than the other)

Cloggerdude said:
The last couple of generations of Panny plasmas had some problems with image retention, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. People will argue about it, but I had a couple of the last gen models and they both had real issues with it, even after they had been used for a while.
Click to expand...

They started having problems ever since introducing their "Neo" panels in 2009. It was suspected that improper voltage regulation was at least partially to blame for this since it was definitely the catalyst of the first few generation's other woe: exponentially rising/deteriorating black levels. Then, as Panasonic started getting this under control, they introduced their 3D panels with "fast transition phosphors." Again, this also tended to make the panels more retentive for whatever reason.

Panasonic's non-3D PDPs for their final few generations, however, were generally very good at combatting IR.
 
dolabla said:
Was it the one for $100 in 4k movies?

Or credit you could use on anything?
Click to expand...

It was the one for 4K movies but Amazon screwed up and I ended up getting fallout 4 and assassins creed syndicate with the credit.

Does anyone know some good calibration settings for the 850C?
 
Yhippa said:
I'm thinking about picking up the LG 55EG9100 this week. I had the last gen of Panny plasmas and I still managed to get image retention mostly due to playing FFXIV. The mini-map, action bar, and quest log got burned in a bit.

Does anybody know if that's also going to be a problem with OLEDs? I've heard that you need 150 hours of normal viewing to condition the screen but haven't been able to confirm.
Click to expand...

I have a 65EF9500 and not once noticed retention, and that's something I look for being a prior plasma owner. That said I saw nasty burn in on a EC9300 before, but they left the smart menu up on it for a few days at best buy, damage was true burn in, and permanent. Just use it like you would treat a plasma and you're fine. They have a compensation cycle which can wipe any temp retention, but like said never noticed it.

FALD is reasonably good, especially in the 940C (which also handles motion great). Vizio FALD is not the same as the 940c or JS9500. They have some poor control in it and odd zone timing (kicks on late, stays on too long, sometimes uses too many zones). That said, it still has its limitations in the Sony and Samsung, and that tech is the last hurrah of LED TVs. OLED is the future of TV. It has its issues elsewhere, but it's only going to get better from here, which is crazy to think about.
 
Man I'd love a new set, but I just can't bring myself to replace my 60" lg plasma just yet. It's not the best for gaming but I'm really hoping we start to see oled sets with better input lag start to come out in the next year.
 
Isak_Borg said:
It was the one for 4K movies but Amazon screwed up and I ended up getting fallout 4 and assassins creed syndicate with the credit.

Does anyone know some good calibration settings for the 850C?
Click to expand...

Haha, that's awesome! I remember seeing that deal last month. I've been keeping my eyes on this set.

I bookmarked this spreadsheet of calibration settings I found on the avsforum: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6j91tdicu704nf/2015-Sony-X850C-Picture Settings-v5.xlsx?dl=0

I'm gonna try them once I get mine in.

I contacted Amazon again and asked them about the whole cancelling/re-ordering and matching the Best Buy deal on the days that it is valid. He couldn't cancel the order so he tried to price match now, but he wasn't able to. I told him I understand. He went and talked to his supervisor to see what he could do and he came back with a $50 promotional credit. I told him I would gladly accept.
 
Just pulled the trigger on a Vizio M series, 48" M48-C1 4k set for $530 USD on bestbuy.com. Not sure if it's a pricing mistake or an early black Friday deal, but that is the cheapest price out there.

Anyone with an M series, was this a good get?
 
Can anyone recommend me the best tv I can get for €1500? I don't know if I can ask for recommendations here.

Leaning towards Philips since they have ambilight (which is not a gimmick at all, imo).
 
pezley said:
To get the input lag down on the LG, A use game mode but more importantly Assign that HDMI to a a game device. it's a step most miss and assume Game mode is enough. Once that's done the input lag isn't perfect but doesn't cause any issues with regular SFIII & 4 tournaments we do :)
Click to expand...

Yup, did that.

The lag is noticeable when moving a mouse cursor around, or even just moving the reticle around in a FPS with a controller. It never feels 100% solid.
 
Pagusas said:
Says someone that probably hasn't even used a highend fald. Their is no "flat on face" area when dealing with these good of screens.
Click to expand...

I've seen enough to understand the flaws and drawbacks of both technologies. A FALD looks better in the long term (greater than 3 years). Every OLED I've owned/messed with has began to show degradation by year 2 which includes mobile/friends televisions/and my Vita.

Personally I'm forgetting that we are talking about gaming before all else, and in that sense -a super low latency FALD is the best compromise. The new Vizio's look hot but are far too expensive for LED LCd.
 
It seems the 49" Vizio M series is an IPS panel, while the rest of the sizes in the series are VA. I got it for really cheap at $530, and I understand the different technologies and their pros and cons. Just hoping the IPS panel doesn't sacrifice too much in black level and contrast. The superior off-angle viewing will actually come in handy in my living room setup.

Still, it was not clearly advertised anywhere that this size is an IPS.

Anyone with this model and size that can comment?
 
Lockjaw333 said:
Still, it was not clearly advertised anywhere that this size is an IPS.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of the big TV manufacturers do this. There might have been some when IPS first came out since it might have been a selling point, but now I think they generally don't say what type of panel it is, except for LCD. It's unfortunately not uncommon for manufacturers to mix & match VA and IPS panels across the various sizes of a single model. You have to do the research online for your exact model and size, or look for the telltale chevron shape on the display model's pixels to know for sure.
 
dw.og said:
Did you say you saw the Sony XBR 850C for less than $1,000?

The issue of whether the Sony XBR 850X is clearly better than the Vizio M series is still confusing. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2006170-vizio-m70-c3-sony-xbr70x850b.html
Click to expand...

X810c at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0148OZLOS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

it WAS sub $1000 about two weeks ago.


although now i've been looking at the JS8500 for $500 more. the x810c beats it in terms of gaming, but overall the JS8500 seems to be the winner. anyone here recently move to this set and game on it frequently?
 
Super LTTP on this one,

Okay so I just changed my old Bravia game settings to include Motionflow Impulse, and I'm pretty damn impressed. Been running game mode with calibrated settings for a long time.

Motionflow Impulse = Backlight Strobing on a TV with little to no interpolation. From what I understand it somewhat negates the Sample and Hold effect that's a part of LCD displays, so that in motion it's almost CRT level clear.

It's almost enough for me to get another Bravia again, especially considering on the 2015 sets they have Motion Interpolation on a separate setting from Backlight Strobing/Black Frame Insertion, and that it seems to work in game mode as well (tested it on a demo unit and Motionflow settings were not greyed out in game mode, least the setting that controls the backlight strobing.

I had considered a Samsung, just putting it on game mode and calling it a day with their very good/excellent input lag on game mode, but apparently their backlight strobing solution doesn't work in game mode? (if someone can confirm this that would be great).

The Bravia in game mode with strobing on would be some time in the 40ms category I think.

I'm starting to think my end game here for a new set is a direct view (not edge lit) VA set (good contrast/black levels with no IPS light bleeding), with enough display controls for a proper calibration (without diving into a service menu) and a strobing backlight at around 30-40ms latency. Only a handful of sets fit this description and apparently only Sony sets are able to offer a pseudo strobing backlight on game mode.
 
EekTheKat said:
Super LTTP on this one,

Okay so I just changed my old Bravia game settings to include Motionflow Impulse, and I'm pretty damn impressed. Been running game mode with calibrated settings for a long time.

Motionflow Impulse = Backlight Strobing on a TV with little to no interpolation. From what I understand it somewhat negates the Sample and Hold effect that's a part of LCD displays, so that in motion it's almost CRT level clear.

It's almost enough for me to get another Bravia again, especially considering on the 2015 sets they have Motion Interpolation on a separate setting from Backlight Strobing/Black Frame Insertion, and that it seems to work in game mode as well (tested it on a demo unit and Motionflow settings were not greyed out in game mode, least the setting that controls the backlight strobing.

I had considered a Samsung, just putting it on game mode and calling it a day with their very good/excellent input lag on game mode, but apparently their backlight strobing solution doesn't work in game mode? (if someone can confirm this that would be great).

The Bravia in game mode with strobing on would be some time in the 40ms category I think.

I'm starting to think my end game here for a new set is a direct view (not edge lit) VA set (good contrast/black levels with no IPS light bleeding), with enough display controls for a proper calibration (without diving into a service menu) and a strobing backlight at around 30-40ms latency. Only a handful of sets fit this description and apparently only Sony sets are able to offer a pseudo strobing backlight on game mode.
Click to expand...
My W802a has this option and it's pretty cool. Supposedly it uses no interpolation and you can definitely tell motion is definitely a lot clearer than without it. Makes 60fps games even more amazing.

The picture gets really dim though. I don't even think it's bright enough for me to use in a dark room. Also noticed a little flicker every now and then, but it gets rid of 3/4 of motion blur, so I think it's a small flaw.

Should only add less than 1 frame of lag, so maybe around 20-25ish ms on my w802a with game mode.
 
e90Mark said:
My W802a has this option and it's pretty cool. Supposedly it uses no interpolation and you can definitely tell motion is definitely a lot clearer than without it. Makes 60fps games even more amazing.

The picture gets really dim though. I don't even think it's bright enough for me to use in a dark room. Also noticed a little flicker every now and then, but it gets rid of 3/4 of motion blur, so I think it's a small flaw.

Should only add less than 1 frame of lag, so maybe around 20-25ish ms on my w802a with game mode.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Impulse Motionflow is simply too dim on my W905a otherwise I'd have it on by default for all content.

Do any of the current Sony models solve this? Last review that I read on hdtvtest.co.uk for an upper-end Sony mentioned that they still couldn't get over 100cd/m2 with backlight on max when using Impulse mode.
 
e90Mark said:
My W802a has this option and it's pretty cool. Supposedly it uses no interpolation and you can definitely tell motion is definitely a lot clearer than without it. Makes 60fps games even more amazing.

The picture gets really dim though. I don't even think it's bright enough for me to use in a dark room. Also noticed a little flicker every now and then, but it gets rid of 3/4 of motion blur, so I think it's a small flaw.

Should only add less than 1 frame of lag, so maybe around 20-25ish ms on my w802a with game mode.
Click to expand...

Yeah seeing it action really was a revelation, especially since I had been away from my set at home for months and had been gaming on a cheap 42" Sharp 1080p set (60hz). That set was a blurry mess compared to my Bravia at home.

I finally understood what all the fuss was with backlight strobing. Once it clicked with me it's very, very hard to give up. Backlight Strobing + local dimming on my set produced some very sharp visuals.

I'm getting older now so don't really play competitively all that much anymore, so I can live with a decent input lag with good/great image quality on a TV set.

My HX950 is pretty dim as well, but I usually run backlight min or 1-3 anyway. Currently with Motionflow Impulse on I run at a Backlight 7 which is about what it looked like on min.

Only issue I have with the HX950 is it can't do motionflow with game mode on (unless a newer firmware added that feature to this particular set), so I've been gaming on general with most interpolation settings/image enhancements off.

That Samsung JS9000 in this thread has been gathering quite a lot of accolades from everyone who owns the thing, as opposed to a lot of complaints about backlight bleeding on certain model 2015 Sony sets. But from what I understand, it's all or nothing in game mode on that particular set. Backlight Strobing is disabled in game mode, but local dimming can still be selected on the Samsung.

Also input lag outside of game mode is downright scary, so it would be an all or nothing situation where I'd give up strobing backlight for an overall better set.

tl;dr backlight strobing works with little to no interpolation on Sony sets in game mode, even in 2015 models (though the setting is renamed for 2015).

I'm just trying to find a way to not give up backlight strobing while gaming on my next set.
 
So it looks like I'll be getting a new TV for our 10th anniversary (she's getting a chocolate diamond ring), I think I've narrowed it down to either the JS9000 or JS9500. From a money standpoint, I'm of course leaning towards the 9000.

I don't necessarily need the latest and greatest but I do want something that's going to look great during the day and night.

I'm trying to decide if there is enough of a difference between the 9000 and the 9500 to justify the extra $1000 between the two. I'm looking at getting a 65" either way.

The other decision I need to make is whether I want to replace my living room TV, a 55" Samsung LCD or my game room TV, a 46" Panasonic Plasma. I play a lot of games and watch a lot of sports. We use the living room TV mainly for TV shows and movies. Both TVs are about 5+ years old.

I probably sit about 8 feet away from the TV in the game room and roughly 12 feet away in the living room with both sitting just above eye level. (gas fireplace in both rooms with about 59" cutout above for the TV but deep with enough height to allow ventilation)

Any input from you guys would be welcome!
 
Rainy Dog said:
Yeah, Impulse Motionflow is simply too dim on my W905a otherwise I'd have it on by default for all content.

Do any of the current Sony models solve this? Last review that I read on hdtvtest.co.uk for an upper-end Sony mentioned that they still couldn't get over 100cd/m2 with backlight on max when using Impulse mode.
Click to expand...

I dont have the measurements but my 940c is bright enough in a dim room where the whites can still make me feel a bit blinded with full BFI turned on, but then again its the brightest large LCD screen on the market.
 
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