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[RedAssedApe]

Yep...disagree with most of what is in the OP.

Seems like you're more concerned about the world/characters not getting a happy ending than character development.

 

[Maximo]

Isn't this type of shit bannable?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Obi-Wan and Yoda weren't sitting on their asses for twenty years. They were waiting for Luke and Leia to grow up.

 

[mstevens]

In response to Luke going away... Isn't that what Yoda did?

 

[Messypandas]

Isn't this type of shit bannable?

Should be. Along with the "why is this a thread" gang. Let the mods do their job ffs.

 

[darkinstinct]

How did the first Jedi learn to use the Force if there was nobody to teach him?

And the Empire was huge, the removal of its head obviously leads to several warlords to build their own empires, which led to the creation of First Order.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

Yep...disagree with most of what is in the OP.

Seems like you're more concerned about the world/characters not getting a happy ending than character development.

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The (now non-canon) EU went full-stupid post ROTJ. A clone of Palpatine shows up, turns Luke to the Dark Side, Leia has to turn Luke back. The Empire builds another fucking super weapon. You get crazy dark Jedi that belong in a Platinum Games title. If you think TFA shits on the OT you'd be amazed what the old EU did.



If A New Hope was released in 2015 people would shit all over Luke hardcore for being a Mary Sue

In all fairness, I never liked Luke as a character

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Han was turned into a major pussy in ROTJ

His arc is basically over by the end of Empire, so all he gets to do is stand around and look stupid in ROTJ. But it runs into the same problems the prequels had, where it has to make the heroes of the series just fuckin give up, as soon as things get bad. Its such a lazy way to get Han Solo back in the black jacket, palling around with Chewie and smuggling stuff. I don't buy any of it.

 

[Snake]

Headline: New trilogy of movies has conflict.

"They all live happily ever after" is neither an interesting nor realistic fate for characters. It does not dishonor Han Solo to say that he didn't settle down and work 9 to 5 in an office job after Return of the Jedi. It doesn't dishonor Luke Skywalker to show that he wasn't infallible. It doesn't dishonor Leia to show her still fighting the good fight.

The force is not a skill gained by converting experience points gained through rigid training. It is an energy field that surrounds all things and can be harnessed by certain individuals. It is a mystical force that has teleological features. When the movie was titled "The Force Awakens," it was clear that something special was going to happen pertaining to the force. It happened to be centered around Rey. This does not mean that anyone who hears about the force and tries a few moves is going to master it.

Luke's lightsaber is not innately magical. It evokes a response because Rey and Luke have a common destiny bound together by the force.

Acting like Star Wars in 1977 was uniquely original in order to criticize TFA opens Star Wars up to being accused of copying everything it ever referenced or borrowed from, which is a considerable list. Learn some history about how much Star Wars borrowed from other properties.

And just to be clear, every single one of these topics/arguments couldn't be more transparent. It's Lucas apologism based on the hollow argument that "the Prequels may have been terribly executed, but at least he had vision!!" Sorry, this is something that only Lucas fanboys who want to redeem everything he has ever done believe. If you like the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoon, good for you. I've gotten a decent amount of enjoyment from them myself. But attacking TFA as plagiarism or not being a faithful enough or a reverent enough continuation of the saga is plainly absurd, and most of these arguments reek of bitterness at its success rather than legitimate attempts to criticize the film.

 

[Sephzilla]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

This sounds exactly like what The Phantom Menace tried to do though.

In all fairness, I never liked Luke as a character

Honestly Luke doesn't become a cool character until Empire and Jedi, the same applies to Darth Vader.

 

[Raptor]

Abrams degloved Lucas' face and made his film again.

LMAO!

JJ with Lucas face on : "Faster, more intense"

 

[A Link to the Past]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

That's the thing though, VII-IX aren't about them. They're just connecting elements to the new setting, like Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Palpatine were for the prequels.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

Headline: New trilogy of movies has the same exact conflict.

ftfy

 

[Veelk]

Isn't this type of shit bannable?

In some cases, yeah, it should be, but in this one, the entire post was "They did this thing differently from the originals." The post doesn't really explain at any point why this brings down the movie. The closest he gets is his Force rant, ignoring that the Force basically was a superpower based in belief in the OT's as well.

This is a very blatant "I don't like a thing" thread, worthy of that picture.

 

[JB1981]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

Obviously that was not the goal of this movie. This is SW for a new generation.

 

[LegendofLex]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

Don't ask for this, because then we'll get a mediocre midquel trilogy.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I don't think I agree on the Han thing, it does at least make some sense given what apparently happened to his character. Although I was definitely upset at how powerful Rey was with zero training, it would be like if in Ep4 Luke had taken on Darth Vader solo and defeated him, just absurd imo.

Also not happy that they apparently re-established the Jedi Order off screen and already killed them off again. There better be a bunch of survivors so we can get Kyle Katarn, mothafucka.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

That's the thing though, VII-IX aren't about them. They're just connecting elements to the new setting, like Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Palpatine were for the prequels.

Yes. And very poorly. They could have still served as side characters if they took the route that I'm referring to.

 

[A Link to the Past]

In some cases, yeah, it should be, but in this one, the entire post was "They did this thing differently from the originals." The post doesn't really explain at any point why this brings down the movie. The closest he gets is his Force rant, ignoring that the Force basically was a superpower based in belief in the OT's as well.

This is a very blatant "I don't like a thing" thread, worthy of that picture.

Even if I think his criticisms don't make sense, it's 100% not applicable. "I don't like thing / ok" is banned because it's basically thread-shitting. If you don't care - and that is indeed what that image means - then you don't post.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This is a very blatant "I don't like a thing" thread, worthy of that picture.

Not only is it "I dont like thing" its "My dislike is so unique it deserves special attention all by itself."

Nah buddy.

 

[Avixph]

I agree with a lot of that, and I think Star Wars could use a film in between VI and VII. Though that'll be hard to do with the original actors only getting older. It's like they skipped forward in time too much. I would have liked to see some of these events actually happen.

It doesn't have to be a new film, it could be a new CGI TV series in the vain of The Clone Wars and Rebels or a comic book series.

 

[RedAssedApe]

How much development did we really see out of Luke, Han, and Leia in this film? It would be more interesting to SEE those things happen.

In an ideal world, I think Episode VII should have been set years earlier when all of these interesting developments were taking place.

just saying that what han and leia are described as in this movie aren't really out of line for what events transpired between 6-7. op makes it seem like how they were portrayed was out of character for the bits we do know.

they could still do it clone wars and rebels style. but obviously live action wouldn't work unless they decided to actually recast everyone.

 

[LegendofLex]

Yes. And very poorly. They could have still served as side characters if they took the route that I'm referring to.

Nah, they're actually all fantastic foils to the new characters (as well as other characters from the OT whose roles they now inhabit) and their presence in the film serves to evoke this.

 

[btrboyev]

We don't know Lukes intentions for why he left so I feel your argument involving him doesn't jive. He obviously had a reason to go where he did. He didn't just give up and say fuck it. He was doing something. Perhaps even orchestrating the awakening in Rey.

 

[Fancy Clown]

only after being totally defeated by a vastly superior Force. The entire Jedi order was demolished, they were completely outgunned and outmanned by the Empire with no way to fight back.

Luke's students get killed by some Sith wannabes and says, "Welp, I'm sad now...time to hide for 30 years despite being the single most powerful person in the galaxy and having a sister who runs the New Republic/Resistance"

Dude's own nephew succumbed to the the dark side and killed his students. And he only fucked off for a few years I think, he hasn't been gone for 30. I'm totally okay with how they played look. He's probably doing some hardcore reflection with the force if he's hiding at an old jedi temple.

 

[Measley]

I think it's pretty unfair that you're comparing an entire trilogy to one film OP. If anything, we should wait until Episode 9 to determine whether or not the new trilogy lives up to the legacy of the OT.

On a film by film basis, TFA measures up to the best of the OT as a stand alone film.

 

[Syf]

One thing to say about Rey though is that we don't know the full story about her. It's been made clear that she has an important past. Possible she had training as a child, had it wiped from her memory somehow, and reawakened it in VII. I want to wait til we find out about that past before passing judgment on her powers in this movie.

It doesn't have to be a new film, it could be a new CGI TV series in the vain of The Clone Wars and Rebels or a comic book series.

That's true, and more likely. I'd like to see one done.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Can you please explain all of this? How exactly are those characters stronger than Luke, Han, and Leia?

-Rey was an absolute badass and at no point was she ever presented as a damsel in distress, unlike Leia who needed rescuing more than once. Rey was the one saving Finn in fact. The metal bikini nonsense also brought Leia's character down a great deal. Rey is a fantastic lead female character that my niece will be able to look up to when she's old enough to see The Force Awakens.

-Poe is suave, likeable and charming. Possibly the first LGBT character in Star Wars. He's a much better wing man to the lead male than Han, who's character was brought down by Harrison Ford's poor acting imo.

-Finn is fantastic as the male lead, with the whole defecting from the Stormstoopers and nervous fish out of water situation. I'd say he is equal to Luke as Luke was the best of the original trio.

-BB-8 is simply the GOAT. The voting thread (R2-D2 vs. BB-8) on GAF recently proved that.

 

[Sephzilla]

We don't know Lukes intentions for why he left so I feel your argument involving him doesn't jive. He obviously had a reason to go where he did. He didn't just give up and say fuck it. He was doing something. Perhaps even orchestrating the awakening in Rey.

Considering that Rey has visions of a planet with water and islands, which is where Luke is at the end of the movie, I think that's very possible.

 

[jts]

Fair points, I agree. It’s a nice movie within itself but it shits all over the OT’s story and legacy.

I’m just forced to see it as its own whole new thing with a few fun cameos.

 

[phanphare]

Dude's own nephew succumbed to the the dark side and killed his students. And he only fucked off for a few years I think, he hasn't been gone for 30. I'm totally okay with how they played look. He's probably doing some hardcore reflection with the force if he's hiding at an old jedi temple.

not to mention he left a map with R2D2 on how to find him

he obviously wasn't fucking off forever if he wanted to be found. he also obviously has some kind of a plan, or at least a general outline, if he wanted to eventually be found.

stay tuned for Episode VIII!

 

[ISWThunder]

I didn't love TFA but these are weak complaints. The Jedi have a long history of going into hiding. Luke is in a similar situation as Obi Wan. He is being hunted after his star pupil turned to the dark side, murdered the jedi in training and is using the dark side to take over the galaxy. Now Luke is using the first Jedi temple to find strength and is hiding to prevent any other pupil from turning to the dark side.

And the only thing keeping Han with the rebels was money and love. Now he has lost love and has gone back to his old scoundrel like ways.

If anything, TFA is too stuck in the footsteps of the OT.

And the force has a long history of giving out "superpowers" without training. Look at Anakin. He is a pod racing child that built an AI robot and the pod in his backyard out of junk. Then be flies a spaceship with no training to blow up the droid control ship.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

Nah, they're actually all fantastic foils to the new characters (as well as other characters from the OT whose roles they now inhabit) and their presence in the film serves to evoke this.

It would have helped if I liked the new characters, but that's an entirely different argument. Fighting alongside Han Solo in a million setpieces doesn't make Han fantastic 'foil'.

He was really no more than good back-up in a fight. I don't recall Han Solo offering any particularly compelling bits of wisdom to the new characters.

 

[Messypandas]

Considering that Rey has visions of a planet with water and islands, which is where Luke is at the end of the movie, I think that's very possible.

I wasn't sure if that was a vision or her "dream" while she was stuck on Jakku.

LMAO!

JJ with Lucas face on : "Faster, more intense"

LOL

 

[RedAssedApe]

Poe is suave, likeable and charming. Possibly the first LGBT character in Star Wars. He's a much better wing man to the lead male than Han, who's character was brought down by Harrison Ford's poor acting imo.

is this hinted at somewhere (perhaps the novels)? or some weird shipping thing? lol

 

[The Lamonster]

Agreed with everything you said, OP.

 

[MechaX]

And the force has a long history of giving out "superpowers" without training. Look at Anakin. He is a pod racing child that built an AI robot and the pod in his backyard out of junk. Then be flies a spaceship with no training to blow up the droid control ship.

But Anakin's powers doubled between meeting Dooku in AotC and meeting Dooku in RotS!

 

[Raptor]

Not only is it "I dont like thing" its "My dislike is so unique it deserves special attention all by itself."

Nah buddy.

Why it bothers you so much?

Just curious though, since for me this is a cool thread because I dont have time to read everything in the OT like all cool kids do.

 

[Sephzilla]

And the force has a long history of giving out "superpowers" without training. Look at Anakin. He is a pod racing child that built an AI robot and the pod in his backyard out of junk. Then be flies a spaceship with no training to blow up the droid control ship.

And Luke also learns most of his Jedi powers between ESB and ROTJ, not with Obi-Wan or Yoda.

 

[Snake]

When Return of the Jedi ended, all we were privy to was the knowledge that the Emperor was defeated, and that there was likely a significant uprising against the Empire on key planets. Beyond that you had vast fleets and countless bases full of thoroughly authoritarian officers and soldiers who would no doubt fight to maintain their way of life as well as their political vision of how the galaxy should operate.

The Force Awakens follows from this realistically. The Rebellion was largely successful and managed to re-assemble a new Republic, but remnants of the Empire remained. Eventually an uneasy detente between these powers formed, and for nearly thirty years there was a time when the galaxy was not in a period of civil war. Now things have changed. This does not read to me as "nothing in the original trilogy mattered."

 

[MathUser]

The thing that bothers me most about VII is that the characters just use the force powers without it showing them learn such powers exist. If Jedi-ism was dead 30 years then how did that girl know there was a jedi power to pull objects to themself, also the mind control thing.

Also why didn't it show her doing the force kick?

 

[Principate]

I think it's pretty unfair that you're comparing an entire trilogy to one film OP. If anything, we should wait until Episode 9 to determine whether or not the new trilogy lives up to the legacy of the OT.

On a film by film basis, TFA measures up to the best of the OT as a stand alone film.

Not really it crams a trilogies worth of development into one film, doesn't explain any of it and leaves you hoping the future films will explain what the hell just happened. I mean Rey's development in of a few hours to beat a dark side user whose been training for years was absurd. The incompetence required to follow the first order to pull off the shit is was doing, was prequel level, And even Snoke as a character came out from the left field

 

[Jelly Rajah]

It should have been presented as a reboot instead of a sequel, because that's essentially what TFA is.

Nobody really cares though because, well..

 

[Septimus Prime]

Honestly, we don't even know what the hell Luke's been doing wherever he is. What if he's been training more Jedi there? That would explain Donnie Yen being cast as a Jedi in the next one, and it also makes sense canonically, since if any of them go nuts like Ben did, they wouldn't really be able to harm anyone outside of their immediate peer group.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

And the force has a long history of giving out "superpowers" without training. Look at Anakin. He is a pod racing child that built an AI robot and the pod in his backyard out of junk. Then be flies a spaceship with no training to blow up the droid control ship.

Force sensitives have latent affinity for things like piloting because it unconsciously gives them exceptional reflexes. They're presumably good at fighting on average too for similar reasons. I don't believe we've ever seen spontaneous active force powers before. In the OT you got the impression that Luke had been practicing off screen between movies, and even then he was rusty and slow without guidance.

When Return of the Jedi ended, all we were privy to was the knowledge that the Emperor was defeated, and that there was likely a significant uprising against the Empire on key planets. Beyond that you had vast fleets and countless bases full of thoroughly authoritarian officers and soldiers who would no doubt fight to maintain their way of life as well as their political vision of how the galaxy should operate.

The Force Awakens follows from this realistically. The Rebellion was largely successful and managed to re-assemble a new Republic, but remnants of the Empire remained. Eventually an uneasy detente between these powers formed, and for nearly thirty years there was a time when the galaxy was not in a period of civil war. Now things have changed. This does not read to me as "nothing in the original trilogy mattered."

Eh, there's back story that might be interesting but if you watched Ep 6 and jumped straight into E7, functionally nothing has changed. People are still fighting for "the rebellion", there's still storm troopers and star destroyers, there's a new Death Star that's even more powerful than before and the scrappy resistance fighters need to destroy the imperial superweapon before time runs out. It's very samey given that they declared war on the New Republic like one hour into the film, I actually think it could have been interesting to explore the bitter peace more before breaking it and then returning to business as usual.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

is this hinted at somewhere (perhaps the novels)? or some weird shipping thing? lol

It's those looks Poe gives Finn throughout the film, I sensed a bit of tension and chemistry there. Though maybe Poe is just a flirty guy. 😘

 

[ascii42]

Rey - I don't think she's a Mary Sue, but she's a self insert for every fan who wants to suddenly wake up with Jedi powers and she basically has no character flaws by the end of the film.

Maybe, though I think the rage with which she struck back at Kylo Ren could be a thing.

Force sensitives have latent affinity for things like piloting because it unconsciously gives them exceptional reflexes. They're presumably good at fighting on average too for similar reasons. I don't believe we've ever seen spontaneous active force powers before. In the OT you got the impression that Luke had been practicing off screen between movies, and even then he was rusty and slow without guidance.

I guess we don't know whether or not Luke knew using the force to move objects was a thing before he used it to grab his lightsaber on Hoth.

 

[Sephzilla]

The thing that bothers me most about VII is that the characters just use the force powers without it showing them learn such powers exist. If Jedi-ism was dead 30 years then how did that girl know there was a jedi power to pull objects to themself, also the mind control thing.

Also why didn't it show her doing the force kick?

She was familiar with the myths of the Jedi and also Kylo Ren just tried to mind-trick her moments earlier. After realizing she could use the force, she probably figured it out quick.

 

[Messypandas]

What if Luke is rebuilding Dexters Diner.