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[SolVanderlyn]

I think the drink spiking is the problem here, that's some shady business right there

Spoiler

Corrin Cosby

 

[Beth Cyra]

Half hour video explaining the whole thing.

TLDW: Female character is a womanizer/highly attracted to females (although apparently not a lesbian), a trait she comically inherited from her womanizing father, to the point where she can't even stop herself from hitting on her own mother.

She expresses her dismay over her predicament to the male protagonist.

At their next meeting, it's revealed that the protagonist drugged the female character, without telling her, in an attempt to help fix her problem. Now she sees men/women genderswapped. The protagonist offers himself up as "training" so she can work out her issues on a test dummy. She's not at all upset by the non-consensual drugging. The training doesn't work, and she runs off to go play with her new ability.

Later, she accepts the protagonist's marriage proposal, and points to the drugging incident as the point where she fell in love with him. He's offended that she fell in love with the female version of him, but she says that while his attractive female-self was a factor, she loves his male-self and is grateful for his attempt at being helpful.

Yeah general media would tear this apart. What an odd thing to write when they likely knew this would come west.

 

[WrenchNinja]

A few threads worth of embarassing damage control only for NoA to side against. Sure puts a smile on my face.

 

[YAWN]

Remember the Tellius games that actually had good writing? But this shit sells more because you can marry a fictional one dimensional anime trope that fall in love you with because you helped brush their Pegasus or some shit.

 

[Dice//]

Half hour video explaining the whole thing.

TLDW: Female character is a womanizer/highly attracted to females (although apparently not a lesbian), a trait she comically inherited from her womanizing father, to the point where she can't even stop herself from hitting on her own mother.

She expresses her dismay over her predicament to the male protagonist.

At their next meeting, it's revealed that the protagonist drugged the female character, without telling her, in an attempt to help fix her problem. Now she sees men/women genderswapped. The protagonist offers himself up as "training" so she can work out her issues on a test dummy. She's not at all upset by the non-consensual drugging. The training doesn't work, and she runs off to go play with her new ability.

Later, she accepts the protagonist's marriage proposal, and points to the drugging incident as the point where she fell in love with him. He's offended that she fell in love with the female version of him, but she says that while his attractive female-self was a factor, she loves his male-self and is grateful for his attempt at being helpful.

 

[fernoca]

Yeah general media would tear this apart. What an odd thing to write when they likely knew this would come west.

Probably because some concepts are not seen the same in different regions.

Reminds me a bit to a movie I watched recently on Netflix: Contracted. About a woman unaware of it, slowly turning into a zombie and how she deals with the situation. Quality of the movie aside, it wasn't bad so I checked opinions later about it and turned out there was a bit of a controversy around something that happens right in the beginning.

At the beginning of the movie the main character (a lesbian) is drugged in a party and later violated by the same guy, which infects her with the virus and is the basis of the movie. She not wanting to talk about it because she was drunk, her girlfriend, etc. trying to downplay what happened while the virus is taking over her.

But the controversy was around how in some countries in EU and even Netflix, they described the drugging and violation of her as a "one night stand during a party full of alcohol".

So, something that was obvious was seen completely different by other people.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

YIKES

 

[Beth Cyra]

Probably because some concepts are not seen the same in different regions.

Reminds me a bit to a movie I watched recently on Netflix: Contracted. About a woman unaware of it, slowly turning into a zombie and how she deals with the situation. Quality of the movie aside, it wasn't bad so I checked opinions later about it and turned out there was a bit of a controversy around something that happens right in the beginning.

At the beginning of the movie the main character (a lesbian) is drugged in a party and later violated by the same guy, which infects her with the virus and is the basis of the movie. She not wanting to talk about it because she was drunk, her girlfriend, etc. trying to downplay what happened while the virus is taking over her.

But the controversy was around how in some countries in EU and even Netflix, they described the drugging and violation of her as a "one night stand during a party full of alcohol".

So, something that was obvious was seen completely different by other people.

......goddess above. That is horrifying anyone, anywhere could try to excuse that as a party event and nothing more.

 

[Brqan]

I cant even.

 

[jurec84]

Having seen the video and read all of this thread, I am still happy this is out.

 

[RagnarokX]

Yeah general media would tear this apart. What an odd thing to write when they likely knew this would come west.

Eh... Why should they kowtow to unfounded outrage? People get upset over misinterpretations all the time. Remember the Tomodachi fiasco?

Reading that translation, this character isn't converted from gay to straight. She's still into the ladies and the main character is the only male she sees as attractive. She is given a magic potion without her knowledge, but it isn't kept a secret and isn't used to deceive her. It's not like a date rape situation.

A few threads worth of embarassing damage control only for NoA to side against. Sure puts a smile on my face.

According to the translation posted on the last page there's nothing really to damage control over. It's easier to just get rid of the thing that people were misinterpreting than trying to make them understand what they were misinterpreting once a controversy has stirred.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Eh... Why should they kowtow to unfounded outrage? People get upset over misinterpretations all the time. Remember the Tomodachi fiasco?

Reading that translation, this character isn't converted from gay to straight. She's still into the ladies and the main character is the only male she sees as attractive. She is given a magic potion without her knowledge, but it isn't kept a secret and isn't used to deceive her. It's not like a date rape situation.
According to the translation posted on the last page there's nothing really to damage control over. It's easier to just get rid of the thing that people were misinterpreting than trying to make them understand what they were misinterpreting once a controversy has stirred. Maybe she won't even be gay at all anymore.

It doesnt matter if this ended up being okay with her, it is never okay to spike a woman's drink and that would not fly.

She isnt still into ladies she gets married to the one guy, and you cant even try to romance her as a woman at all.

She can be straight but that story line will not fly here and it will be ripped apart and rightly so with the drink spiking here in NA.

I do remember. It got so bad that Nintendo had to apologize and this will be much worse then that.

We here in NA are currently having one of our most beloved and iconic personalities ever going down in flames due to spiking womens drinks food. Corrin doesnt rape her like Cosby, but the last thing that anyone should want us something coming out with content that has a man spiking a womans drink/food.

 

[Jarate]

Remember the Tellius games that actually had good writing? But this shit sells more because you can marry a fictional one dimensional anime trope that fall in love you with because you helped brush their Pegasus or some shit.

I think you're looking at the series with some rose tinted goggles, as someone who replays Fire Emblem fairly regularly, I can assuradly say that the series has always had fairly shit writing and generic anime women and shitty love plots.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Yeah general media would tear this apart. What an odd thing to write when they likely knew this would come west.

I am of the opinion that Japan just genuinely doesn't know what is or is not offensive vis a vis gender and sexuality. Looking at how Japanese companies respond everytime there is a controversy, they always seem to be caught flat footed and completely unaware why people are angry.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I think you're looking at the series with some rose tinted goggles, as someone who replays Fire Emblem fairly regularly, I can assuradly say that the series has always had fairly shit writing and generic anime women and shitty love plots.

Tiki has been a thousand year old dragon since 1990, after all.

 

[WrenchNinja]

According to the translation posted on the last page there's nothing really to damage control over. It's easier to just get rid of the thing that people were misinterpreting than trying to make them understand what they were misinterpreting once a controversy has stirred.

I don't think anyone is misinterpreting that it's shitty writing.

Tiki has been a thousand year old dragon since 1990, after all.

Tiki wasn't dressed up in bikini armor in 1990.

 

[Jarate]

I am of the opinion that Japan just genuinely doesn't know what is or is not offensive vis a vis gender and sexuality. Looking at how Japanese companies respond everytime there is a controversy, they always seem to be caught flat footed and completely unaware why people are angry.

I wonder why people who are literally on the opposite side of the earth in a completely different culture would be confused about controversy that might happen due to very specific cultural issues in a different country

 

[Abriael]

It doesnt matter if this ended up being okay with her, it is never okay to spike a woman's drink and that would not fly.

While the original scene is all kinds of bad writing, which is completely besides the point (and unsurprising for Fire Emblem), since when it has become not ok to portray something in narrative fiction that is not ok to do in real life?

 

[Crash Station]

From the impressions in this thread, it sounds like the entire game shouldn't have come over.

Or just been rated M so Treehouse wouldn't have to bother with a million changes.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Tiki wasn't dressed up in bikini armor in 1990.

No, because a bikini has 100% more pants.

There's nothing wrong with admitting the series has always had issues.

 

[AnkiRendan]

Huh...
So now people are okay with changing these kinds of things. Where are the "I want the original creator's vision" crowd that fills so many sub/dub topics?

I'm okay with the change, but I'm pretty amused.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Huh...
So now people are okay with changing these kinds of things. Where are the "I want the original creator's vision" crowd that fills so many sub/dub topics?

I'm okay with the change, but I'm pretty amused.

....they're still here. That's why this has reached 6 pages and will likely double that by tomorrow.

 

[Dr. Buni]

There is a lot of stuff they would need to remove from this game to make it acceptable. But I guess that is a start.

 

[Crash Station]

wow gg Japan. Have they not heard of Bisexuality.

Japan still has some weird views on homosexuality, particularly lesbians. It's still seen as a "phase" high school girls "grow out of".

 

[Beth Cyra]

While the original scene is all kinds of bad writing, which is completely besides the point (and unsurprising for Fire Emblem), since when it has become not ok to portray something in narrative fiction that is not ok to do in real life?

Because as I mentioned we are watching Cosby going up in flame with spiking drinks and raping women.

Regardless of how the storyline ends this will get called out and ravaged given the climate we are in right now.

 

[L95]

No, because a bikini has 100% more pants.

Sorry, this one flew over my head??? If anything a bikini is basically underwear in terms of shape. (I'm really missing the point I think lol)

 

[Coffee Dog]

Sorry, this one flew over my head??? If anything a bikini is basically underwear in terms of shape.

I was actually mistaken, I thought she wore bottoms in awakening. It turns out that Tiki has always been and always will be a pantsless 1000 year old dragon girl.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I wonder why people who are literally on the opposite side of the earth in a completely different culture would be confused about controversy that might happen due to very specific cultural issues in a different country

'Don't drug people' isn't some weird quirk of Western culture.

Also, as someone who grew up in South East Asia, I can tell you trying to excuse the shit Japan pulls because 'lol foreign' is a piss weak excuse.

 

[WrenchNinja]

No, because a bikini has 100% more pants.

sure if we're calling pants glorified undies and long boots

 

[Orniletter]

I'm European. We're saved from that garbage.

Garbage.

Fucking Please.

 

[Crash Station]

C.) Some creepy Harem fanservice story with no plot.

Guess what Fire Emblem is now!

 

[-Amon-]

Always against censorship.

Put an M rate instead.

 

[Abriael]

Because as I mentioned we are watching Cosby going up in flame with spiking drinks and raping women.

Regardless of how the storyline ends this will get called out and ravaged given the climate we are in right now.

GTA got called out and ravaged a million times, and yet Rockstar kept on its path with zero problems.

The point is that games, and all form of media and storytelling, depict a TON of things that are "not ok" to do in real life.

It doesn't make sense to call for or justify the removal of those elements just because they don't fit our idea of "ok," because if games/movies/books/whatever could only portray what is "ok," we'd have a serious problem.

Maybe Journey would pass. Barely.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Always against censorship.

Put an M rate instead.

A mature rating isn't the issue here.

 

[UncleGrumpskin]

While the original scene is all kinds of bad writing, which is completely besides the point (and unsurprising for Fire Emblem), since when it has become not ok to portray something in narrative fiction that is not ok to do in real life?

Because in this situation, the player character drugs her against her will and is rewarded with marriage instead of called a creep. The girl even admits the point she falls in love with him is when she was drugged. That's pretty messed up.

 

[L95]

I was actually mistaken, I thought she wore bottoms in awakening. It turns out that Tiki has always been and always will be a pantsless 1000 year old dragon girl.

Never was a fan of the tiny loincloth myself, but her big... poncho? she had in the old TCG was adorable

 

[Jarate]

'Don't drug people' isn't some weird quirk of Western culture.

Also, as someone who grew up in South East Asia, I can tell you trying to excuse the shit Japan pulls because 'lol foreign' is a piss weak excuse.

Drugging is really a bad word to use since it implies a whole slew of things that aren't implied in the game.

Also, I'm not excusing everything Japanese devs do, just letting you know that they literally live on the opposite end of the planet and may not understand what is controversial in different countries. Ignorance isnt an abhorrent trait unless said person is actively trying to be ignorant.

 

[Koeta]

Huh...
So now people are okay with changing these kinds of things. Where are the "I want the original creator's vision" crowd that fills so many sub/dub topics?

I'm okay with the change, but I'm pretty amused.

You can add me to the list of people who think it's stupid to cut this out, I just try to not post in these types of thread anymore but since you asked.

I don't need Nintendo to censor or "localize" my games, I buy these games because I want to play them as they are, not the "Edited for American Kids" version.

 

[Beth Cyra]

GTA got called out and ravaged a million times, and yet Rockstar kept on its path with zero problems.

The point is that games, and all form of media and storytelling, depict a TON of things that are "not ok" to do in real life.

It doesn't make sense to call for the removal of those elements just because they don't fit our idea of "ok," because if games/movies/books/whatever only could portray what is "ok," we'd have a serious problem.

I generally agree.

The difference is that GTA doesnt actually try to present these as positives and you know what youre doing is wrong.

Nothing about this is written self aware or that its wrong and thats the difference, or at least that my opinion. If you're going to do something then you have to show it for the vileness that it is.

Also on Page 1 I said it should stay. I just feel they need to think about how to use this kinda content.

 

[maquiladora]

Why would you even put something like that in a game at all. WTF.

 

[Abriael]

Because in this situation, the player character drugs her against her will and is rewarded with marriage instead of called a creep. The girl even admits the point she falls in love with him is when she was drugged. That's pretty messed up.

I know it's nothing new, but killing people is pretty damn messed up as well, and it's still one of the most portrayed elements in video game (and other media's) narrative.

Again, if everything that's unacceptable to do in real life had to be removed as a plot device (regardless of its quality, which is subjective), I'm not exactly sure what would be left.

The difference is that GTA doesnt actually try to presenrmt these as, positives and you know what youre doing is wrong.

Actually, GTA's protagonists are very seldom really identified as "bad guys." Rockstar plays a lot on the moral grey area, and they're not even close to the only ones.

 

[Coffee Dog]

sure if we're calling pants glorified undies and long boots

It's closer than the whole lot of nothing that she started with. The notion that Fire Emblem has totally gone to shit and hasn't always had pantsless children and sister fucking is just entirely off base, and I simply don't know why I see it repeated so often in this thread.

 

[Crash Station]

Huh...
So now people are okay with changing these kinds of things. Where are the "I want the original creator's vision" crowd that fills so many sub/dub topics?

I'm okay with the change, but I'm pretty amused.

There's some in this thread, but people probably don't want to jump the gun until they understand what the situation is because it's damn confusing.

 

[Dremark]

But how is it not censorship? The 'story' is changed from its original version, which will still exist, but only for a few regions that were 'upset' will it be changed? I mean I get the issue with the dialogue and that whole plot point, but that's what they made, and that's what will exist in the game where it's made locally. It's being changed just because people didn't like it elsewhere, so yes, it's effectively censorship in the US/EU.

On NeoGAF if content you don't personally like is removed then it's not censorship.

 

[Coffee Dog]

'Don't drug people' isn't some weird quirk of Western culture.

Also, as someone who grew up in South East Asia, I can tell you trying to excuse the shit Japan pulls because 'lol foreign' is a piss weak excuse.

The issue is more whether or not the incident in question counts as "drugging" because the entire thing is so fanciful in nature and everything turns out hunky dory. It's obviously fucking stupid, but to draw parallels between the events that occur and what we commonly know as drugging (ie date rape) is blatantly unintentional and is likely the cause of the changes in the first place.

 

[RagnarokX]

It doesnt matter if this ended up being okay with her, it is never okay to spike a woman's drink and that would not fly.

She isnt still into ladies she gets married to the one guy, and you cant even try to romance her as a woman at all.

She can be straight but that story line will not fly here and it will be ripped apart and rightly so with the drink spiking here in NA.

I do remember. It got so bad that Nintendo had to apologize and this will be much worse then that.

We here in NA are currently having one of our most beloved and iconic personalities ever going down in flames due to spiking womens drinks food. Corrin doesnt rape her like Cosby, but the last thing that anyone should want us something coming out with content that has a man spiking a womans drink/food.

It's not okay to spike anyone's drink, but the issue is mitigated by the fact that she is informed about it as soon as it takes effect and the effect is not used to seduce or harm her.

The conversation says that the main is the only guy that she is into and the main jokes that he won't have to worry about her cheating on him with other guys because she's not into guys.

The Tomodachi controversy was based on nothing, though. A guy made a video about Nintendo removing a gay marriage feature from the game and not letting gay people have relationships with their real life partners, but the game never had such a feature and you don't choose partners in that game. Nintendo addressed the issue by stating that they would consider such things if they ever make a sequel.

 

[Orniletter]

I wonder what would happen if Nintendo published Drakengard/Nier. Imagine how much would be cut.

Nothing because Nier...in contrast to Fire Emblem....aims for an M rating.

 

[L95]

It's closer than the whole lot of nothing that she started with. The notion that Fire Emblem has totally gone to shit and hasn't always had pantsless children and sister fucking is just entirely off base, and I simply don't know why I see it repeated so often in this thread.

I do think that kids in very small skirts and the fully armored female knights having straight up ass windows(and they're in their undies, no pants, skirt whatsoever) are two different levels of meh design, though I understand disliking both.

And, uh, FE4's incest involved one half being brainwashed by a cult, and then

Spoiler

giving birth to their dark god

, lol

 

[WrenchNinja]

It's closer than the whole lot of nothing that she started with. The notion that Fire Emblem has totally gone to shit and hasn't always had pantsless children and sister fucking is just entirely off base, and I simply don't know why I see it repeated so often in this thread.

A dress is not a whole lot of nothing, what. "Sister fucking" was related to the plot and involved rape and isnt thrown around as a postive thing to the player. It's an evil thing the antagonist does. Calling either of those equivalent to bikini armor or your player avatar being able to fuck and have children with his or her siblings gleefully is ludicrous.

 

[Crash Station]

I generally agree.

The difference is that GTA doesnt actually try to presenrmt these as, positives and you know what youre doing is wrong.

Nothing about this is written self aware or that its wrong and thats the difference, or at least that my opinion. If you're going to do something then you have to show it for the vileness that it is.

Also on Page 1 I said it should stay. I just feel they need to think about how to use this kinda content.

I completely disagree, but I do agree said writing has the right to be criticized.

I believe Abriael is arguing censorship while you are arguing right to criticism.