NHarmonic.
Member
Good riddance, what the fuck was that.
Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
Hugh? what's so bad about bisexuality?
Yeah, no. The fan translation was wrong as in flat out wrong. How much something is emphasized can change a character completely as is the case here.
She hits on every cute girl, including her mother, which indicates that she is most likely not lesbian and this is just a personality quirk of hers.
And I don't see the issues with the ''drugging'' scene. Like GH said, people take issues because they connect it to spiking drinks and date rape but it couldn't be further from the truth in this case. There were no nefarious intentions behind it and if he cast a spell instead it wouldn't blow up like it did.
Look, it sucks that there's no gay marriage in Fates. I even lamented this fact when Awakening was released and said that the children issues could be resolved by adoption of an orphan but this is a manufactured controversy. Pushing for gay representation is fine but lying and making up stuff is not and only hurts the cause.
I must have missed it but I can't see where you actually explain what the complaints are.
EDIT: I see your posted them. Don't really see why bisexuality is an issues, to be honest.
EDIT2: Apparently there is gay marriage. Sorry, didn't really follow the game that closely.
Faynwulf
Member
Chinese Cartoons
Banned
As a person who identifies as a gender fluid I am against any form of censorship how can anyone say this is ok?
AHA-Lambda
Member
Good, who the fuck would make such a scene?? D:
YoYo Switch
Banned
the funniest thing about all this is when it finally comes out it won't be removed nor will it be a horrible offense because, once translated, it probably will not be the awful human rights breaching gross problematic mess the band wagoners are complaining about
notice nintendo said "none of that is in the game"
it's not because they took it out
it wasn't in it to begin with
good reporting NWR, putting words in a company's mouth. They took "what the hell there is no gay converting and drugging in this game" as "all that exists and we removed it because those backwards japanese" those are two different statements. now people are taking this nwr report as "MUH CENSORSHIP" and are stirring fights all over the internet and all the people who are like "good, those backwards japanese. people who are upset by this are pedophile sickos" are engaging them right back and adding more negative noise
people are getting upset over a hasty mistranslation that ONE person on their tumblr blog misconstrued as a transgression. and now that ONE person mis understanding and taking offense to something that is most likely not there, has informed the opinions of HUNDREDS of forum goers, twitter bloggers etc. because they are taking this one tumblr blog's misunderstood overreaction as true fact of what is objectively in the game
notice nintendo said "none of that is in the game"
it's not because they took it out
it wasn't in it to begin with
good reporting NWR, putting words in a company's mouth. They took "what the hell there is no gay converting and drugging in this game" as "all that exists and we removed it because those backwards japanese" those are two different statements. now people are taking this nwr report as "MUH CENSORSHIP" and are stirring fights all over the internet and all the people who are like "good, those backwards japanese. people who are upset by this are pedophile sickos" are engaging them right back and adding more negative noise
people are getting upset over a hasty mistranslation that ONE person on their tumblr blog misconstrued as a transgression. and now that ONE person mis understanding and taking offense to something that is most likely not there, has informed the opinions of HUNDREDS of forum goers, twitter bloggers etc. because they are taking this one tumblr blog's misunderstood overreaction as true fact of what is objectively in the game
Ok, there are like 30 characters who can be romanced by only by the opposite gender
There are 2 characters who can be romanced by both
There are zero characters who can be romanced only by their own gender.
There is one character who appears to actually be lesbian or bi, but lol actually straight.
Do you see the problems?
Edit: Also good job ignoring the rest of my post, where I stated, EXPLICITLY, that the ideal solution was to make EVERYONE bisexual.
……forgetit
Member
Oh wow, that is gross. Thank God it's gone.
You think this whole "plot arc" can't be changed a bit in a localisation? It's not like we are loosing key thematic elements of the game here.
8-4 has zero involvement with Fire Emblem Fates.
YoYo Switch
Banned
metal gear solid 2 was right
also, i love how i said "so and so are putting words in so and so's mouth"
meanwhile i did the same like 8 times in my last post
also, i love how i said "so and so are putting words in so and so's mouth"
meanwhile i did the same like 8 times in my last post
SliceSabre
Banned
After seeing what the scene was actually about thanks to other posters in this thread, this outrage is hilarious because it is based on wrong information entirely. Sure the scene is awkward but it isn't even close to as bad as I initially thought it was going to be.
But at the end of the day its hard to stop a train so w/e.
The true ideal solution is a a mix of sexual orientations.
But at the end of the day its hard to stop a train so w/e.
Everyone in the world is Bi is a terrible solution that even I as a Bi person find to be stupid just based on the fact it is more unrealistic that everyone in the world is Bisexual and totally down to fuck anyone. It is ok for male characters to not want to take the dick and female characters to not want the vagina.
The true ideal solution is a a mix of sexual orientations.
Eolz
Member
So it's just Treehouse? Weird if that's the case, since it implies that NOE and NOA are using the same localization.
Still, thanks. Good to know who's supposed to take the blame.
You know what? If that's what happened in the support conversation, I'm glad it's gone. I know Fire Emblem games are poorly written and all, but that actually disgusts me a bit.
I'd be fine with a complete rewrite too.
I'd be fine with a complete rewrite too.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Huh.
So this is like the second Nintendo news that's been misinterpreted this week?
Eolz
Member
If only it was only two nintendo news misinterpreted per week.
Of course they wouldn't cut out a complete support conversation. Whatever they change won't be a big loss anyway.
It's less a "this game has earned a thoughtful approach" thing, and more a "here's a situation where I have to reconcile the in-game context, authorial intent, etc. and the broader real life issues the situation easily evokes" thing. My impulse is usually to preserve such situations, and based on what I've seen, this conversation isn't an exception. But yeah, I agree the conversation doesn't really seem to have been well thought out in the first place. It's pretty easy to see why NoA decided the game would lose more by keeping it in.
Sure, but I thought the entire idea was that she's a gay girl who nonetheless fell in love with a man. The person I quoted seems to be pretty confident she's straight, and her entire attitude toward women boils down to some neurotic tendencies she inherited from her father or something. Where is that coming from? It doesn't make sense to have all these scenes exclusively showcasing her attraction for women, have her jump through these ridiculous hoops to get her romantically invested in a man, only for her to have been straight all along.
But you are ok with being a dragon?
And yes, a "mix" would be good, but not if that mix is "30 straight people and 2 bisexuals."
No, it's more like people also take issue with the accurate translation because they feel there's not enough gay representation and they were robbed of a gay character.
Makes sense but doesn't make all the ridiculous accusation of drugging and gay conversion therapy any more true, though.
YoYo Switch
Banned
unless you or someone who knows japanese can tell everyone what it says on that site, this piece of evidence is moot
if someone could translate this for us, it would be a big help and introduce new developments for the discussion.
also, the character in question here is straight, as is confirmed by the game. head canon does not apply. we are also talking about THIS SPECIFIC instance. I just have a gut feeling that that website may have other things to say about other events in the game that may be offensive to LGBT people. other characterizations besides this specific one we are talking about (cuz it's the only one allegedly changed in western countries) are not relevant to this current discussion
also, these are all fake characters so who cares
but seriously, let's get that translation
Yes, this is why the "BUT THE TRANSLATION WAS WRONG!" side misses the point.
The things that are present in the Gaijin Hunter translation are still bad, and she's still a badly written, offensive character.
So you are a-ok with the idea of a character who appears to be gay, acts like she's gay and pretty much is gay...except oops actually she's straight and this was all because of her dad being a womanizer?
Do you not see the issues? Even putting aside the drugging (which I don't like to do because that is still gross and inexcusable)
SliceSabre
Banned
dragons are dope yo
And well yea of course a better mix would be cool. My ideal world you'd have some characters who are strictly hetrosexual, some bisexual and some strictly homosexual. Everybody wins. Sure you may be disappointed you can't romance certain characters but that's ok.
In this case I feel the problem is people are wanting a Nintendo SRPG with lite dating sim mechanics to be a much more robust dating sim game then it is. This is more of an argument for why Nintendo should have never went down this road if they werent prepared for how passionate internet shippers are.
But homosexual romance is represented in those 2 characters. Would you have a problem if all characters were bi? I honestly think that's the best solution, but I'm curious about you.
I'd say nothing has changed in her bi orientation during the whole story arc.
I see imperfections, wich are easy to find anywere. But not such thing as a problem.
Oh, you edited. Nice. Glad to see we agree on that.
Internet Shippers are serious business dude. Never seen a more emotional and dedicated group then shippers.
YoYo Switch
Banned
there are no hoops to jump through though. She is straight. I could recognize another dude is hot and be intimidated by that, but it doesn't mean i like him or men in general for that matter
it's a (dumb) anime trope for a girl character to be obsessed with the cuteness of other girl characters and cuddle with them grope them etc. it doesn't inform the character's sexuality. it's just a dumb japanese pop culture trope
ever been out with your girlfriends and you all see another girl who's got everything going on and you're like "holy shit, her hair was perfect, and that crop top uhhhhh she has such a good stomach i love her" etc etc. it's that taken to an exaggerated extreme for the sake of comedy. and in the context of war/a tactical RPG, this character is extra funny because her weakness to this common trope affects her on the battlefield, so they go through a "everyone is wearing underpants" rigamarole and now she's not distracted by girls anymore, and can concentrate on battle
it's like a dumb side quest in an RPG where you help a dumb funny character get over them self. Her sexuality is never in question, it's never been about sexuality in the first place. it was about this lame comedy thing
nintendo didn't take anything about this out, i bet. It's just now translated and it's not as bad as everyone thinks.
and she's romance able because (i think) everyone in the game is.
Take a guy who loves women. A womanizer if you will. He's always distracted by women on the battlefield and he needs help composing himself.
So a friend of his, a fellow dudebro, dopes his drink with a concoction that turns the appearance of men into women and by the end of the story arc they are suddenly gay married.
Do you think you might question the issue more then? I ask this because ,as someone in the LGBT community myself, this is how I view the story beats. Regardless of whether or not the character is "actually straight but just attracted to females" is irrelevant. They are presenting as being attracted to a thing, drugged, then marries something else as a direct cause and I think it's a stretch to say people are blowing this out of proportion. Accurate translation or not there are some very bizarre things going on with this story.
:edited multiples times due to esl/ not being sure if my point is adequately being conveyed:
It's a really bad character no matter how you slice it. A character that flirts with girls even though she's straight because "she can't help it" is all kinds of dumb. Nothing to do with mechanics.
Even if one doesn't consider it offensive there is absolutely nothing lost if they change her up a bit.
not really. Dude felt the bromance
No, its a problem with how a lot of people in game production (on BOTH sides of the ocean) don't even think about non-straight stuff. At all.
Like, here we finally get characters who can romance the same gender. But only 2. both of which are kinda shitty stereotypes, and they can also romance the oppposite gender.
And then we have Soleil, who comes across as gross queerbaiting and then can only marry men anyway, so why even fucking bother?
Like really, why even make this character like this, what does it add?
Do people actually think "Oh hey you thought she was lesbian? She's actually straight! Isn't that hilarious!?" is actually good? Like, do you think this is at all something that needed to ever be written by anyone? Do you enjoy that kind of character?
Soleil falls into all sorts of gross "gay conversion" stereotypes, most specifically the "oh she's a lesbian but only until she finds the 'right' man", which is one of the most prevalent and still very often encountered ones. You see this all the time and seeing it here isn't any better
Do you guys not understand why this upsets people? Particularly gay people and especially lesbians? This isn't just a "cute cartoon character quirk", its actively harmful to an already marginalized group.
Its really depressing how many people in this thread don't understand the problem.
In-game shipping was already a thing with older FEs, though. It just wound up getting much more attention with the newer games.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Don't you go ruin my day Tsugumi x Raku is the OTP. The OTP.
superseohyun
Member
so they didnt. LOL
YoYo Switch
Banned
that is not accurate tho!
It's actually like this: You're a guy on the battlefield. You see a bunch of strong shirtless men, sweating and fighting just being dudes. You're like "holy shit, these guys are so ripped and sweaty and bro-y. i'm so intimidated by them. i cannot stop thinking about these guys"
your bro slips you a potion. all of a sudden, everything is reversed etc. you finally get over it cuz you're not intimidated by girls and at the end you're not gay married because your sexuality had nothing to do with this.
Hellwarden
Member
Hmm, now on one hand I generally think it's dumb to remove or change content in a game. But the scene they are definitely draws comparisons to a deeply unsavory act.
I'll have to see how and how much they altered the scene before judging.
I'll have to see how and how much they altered the scene before judging.
SaintGalgo
Member
Uh, okay, no. Did you really just say that? You can be dissatisfied by the lack of representation (I am, as a gay man) but if you don't see the problem with saying that it's hard to take you seriously.
So you don't think that a character who is only interested in their gender, spends their time looking at, talking about and flirting with people of their gender, and who's entire character revolves around them finding their same gender attractive is not, actually, supposed to appear gay?
Really?
Sexuality is fluid bro
that is not accurate tho!
It's actually like this: You're a guy on the battlefield. You see a bunch of strong shirtless men, sweating and fighting just being dudes. You're like "holy shit, these guys are so ripped and sweaty and bro-y. i'm so intimidated by them. i cannot stop thinking about these guys"
your bro slips you a potion. all of a sudden, everything is reversed etc. you finally get over it cuz you're not intimidated by girls and at the end you're not gay married because your sexuality had nothing to do with this.
Uhh...thats horrible?
Like, its just as bad as this? Only predicated on the idea that...
wow this is just as bad as the Soleil thing and its sorta scary you don't understand why