but isn't the end result that she converts from liking girls to liking guys?
or maybe they were trying for B and didn't succeed because the writing was bad and the entire premise was stupid to begin with
but isn't the end result that she converts from liking girls to liking guys?
Solei can marry other men and, AFAIK, she doesn't use a magic potion to first see them as female and only then fall in love with them.OK, so I just watched the entirety of that gaijin hunter video that's supposed to debunk this whole thing and establish that it's all just a mistranslation and I still don't understand how it's being misrepresented.
I want to first start off here by noting that I don't think the original story intends anything malicious, but is instead just absurdly stupid. So I'm not really up in arms about anything here. With that out of the way, one thing I'm seeing is people saying "oh, but she's not really a lesbian despite getting weak-kneed around cute girls." And I just... I just don't understand it. I get that this insanely silly conversation is with her mother, but when I hear this interpretation as described by the person trying to debunk that there's anything nefarious at play:
Soleil: Watching you move as your washing the clothing, like you're, like seriously super cute.
Soleil's Mom: Umm... so what are you looking at me... you're weird.
Soleil: Hey, I can't help it, I get aroused. Like I see cute girls and it just gets me going.
Again, this is the interpretation of the person arguing that this is all innocent. Later, he affirms the interpretation that she only falls in love with the female version of the character under the spell. I do not understand the argument that this character isn't presented as not really being a lesbian. And I'm not saying it to be progressive or anything here. I just don't understand it.
I spent 30 minutes watching a video that was supposed to explain all of this and I basically feel like it mostly agrees with the very interpretation it's trying to debunk. The only thing it successfully argues in my book is that it probably does play out more innocently than it seems when taken out of the context of playing the actual game. But the things that people are getting riled up about do seem to be there.
She wishes to be cured , it actually prevent her from reaching her current goals.There is no doubt about this going by the dialogue in the event scenes.
and there are people in the real world who have voluntarily undergone conversion therapy, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work and causes deep psychological harm to its victims
portraying a character like this is really shitty and disrespectful
That interpretation still makes it sound gross.That's what I'm trying to figure out. It seems like at the end she still finds women attractive, but she also finds the MC attractive, and appreciates everything he did to try and help her.
And that's how a lot of people in Japan see actual lesbianism: as a "character quirk" that can and should be overcome / fixed.
but isn't the end result that she converts from liking girls to liking guys?
Boy you better not look up localizations in the past with your sense of the term, By this logic LOADS OF SHIT HAS BEEN CENSORED. FF/Persona/Tales of / drakengard(Especially this) and other games.
Uhh, I don't know how to break this to you but...So localization is inherently censorship according to you? And editing your own creation is censorship too? I don't want to alert you but there's "censorship" absolutely everywhere then!
Solei can marry other men and, AFAIK, she doesn't use a magic potion to first see them as female and only then fall in love with them.
It's hard to take her advances on girls seriously when she does the same with her mother.
She says that Corrin's female form isn't her type and although she saw other men turned women none of them made her feel the same so it's not just a question physical/gender attraction. She does say that she fell in love with the female version of Corrin but in the same conversation also says that the male form is also cute and makes her hearth race.
Oh i think that the scene is silly and really stupid.Yeah I'm aware of all of that and it is just as gross an aspect of the scene as the powder thing is. Really moreso.
and there are people in the real world who have voluntarily undergone conversion therapy, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work and causes deep psychological harm to its victims
portraying a character like this is really shitty and disrespectful
War times ..I wish to lose wight. My Doctor has suggested surgery I say no I don't want to do it that way. He can't trick me into taking the surgery. Because I am an autonomous individual with the right to choose what happens to me and the doctor by law has to respect that right. By not asking her the MC has stripped her of her right to choose in this matter, even if she would have agreed to if asked. By not asking he has taken the aright to deiced what happens to her body away from her for "her own good."
FUCK THAT.
That interpretation still makes it sound gross.
And that's how a lot of people in Japan see actual lesbianism: as a "character quirk" that can and should be overcome / fixed.
That interpretation still makes it sound gross.
Localization =/= censorship but this is GAF so you're not going to listen and will continue spouting that "censoring" crap for as long as mankind exists.
And in the fictionnal world of fire emblem with all the crazy stuff inside like dragons and people that can change the topography of terrain *AT WILL* it worked.
You're arguing that a magical solution in a fantasy world is not a good solution because in our world that solution doesn't work magically.
and you're arguing that a plot element can't be compared to anything in the real world just because it takes place in a fantasy game
dragons existing in this made-up world doesn't change the fact that the story is about people with relatable human problems and interactions that can be criticized
the bare fact of this event is that a woman who expressed sexual interest in women is given a hallucinogen without consent in order to "cure" her of this "problem". the fact that the writers call it magic powder doesn't excuse them.
This is really the heart of the issue and it's so prevalent in Japanese writing that it's incredibly disheartening.And that's how a lot of people in Japan see actual lesbianism: as a "character quirk" that can and should be overcome / fixed.
the bare fact of this event is that a woman who expressed sexual interest in women is given a hallucinogen without consent in order to "cure" her of this "problem". the fact that the writers call it magic powder doesn't excuse them.
Why can't you simply disagree with the content ? Why does it have to be removed for you to feel satisfied ?
Don't other people have the right to form their own opinions on it, as you have done ?
Again, where exactly is it stated that her "problem" is finding sexual interest in women, and not that the problem is that she can't seemingly "handle" her sexual interest in women to the point of not being able to function.
They're not trying to remove her sexual attraction to women. They're trying to make her be able to comfortably talk to and engage with them.
And that's how a lot of people in Japan see actual lesbianism: as a "character quirk" that can and should be overcome / fixed.
That said, this is also the case for this convo.Again, where exactly is it stated that her "problem" is finding sexual interest in women, and not that the problem is that she can't seemingly "handle" her sexual interest in women to the point of not being able to function.
They're not trying to remove her sexual attraction to women. They're trying to make her be able to comfortably talk to and engage with them.
I think its even more fascinating that people keep making up stuff and twisting what actually happens. The OP needs to be edited with this video so people can actually see what happens instead of going by wonky translations and click bait articles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iVFPheRegw
Yes, she's not referring to just her mom but her mom is included in the cute girls that arouse her. She says: ''You're super hot.'' ''Watching you.'' and she's blushing. And then she uses the same tea pickup line.It may be hard to take that conversation seriously, but it's hard to take any of this seriously because it's all just so absurdly idiotic. But if we're going to discuss it, then we have to discuss what's there. And mom or not, look at these translated words again!
Soleil: Watching you move as your washing the clothing, like you're, like seriously super cute.
Soleil's Mom: Umm... so what are you looking at me... you're weird.
Soleil: Hey, I can't help it, I get aroused. Like I see cute girls and it just gets me going.
"Hey, I can't help it, I get aroused. Like I see cute girls and it just gets me going." She's not just referring to her mom there, but "cute girls." I don't see how there's any other interpretation there than "this character is sexually interested in women."
That leaves out the gross part: the " conversion" from homosexuality to heterosexuality...How?
Scenario:
Your friend has issues dealing with relationships. Gets flustered in dealing with situations like that, strangers, etc. You try and help them along trying to make themselves more comfortable in the idea of dating (mock dates, things to say, do, acting naturally, etc). You are doing this with truly altruistic intentions.
Plan doesn't really work and this person isn't any more comfortable with strangers than before. But during all that time, they learned a new side of you, you learned a new side of them, you fall in love, etc.
Literally the only "icky" thing about the whole FE thing is the fact that the "plan" was "put a drug in your drink".
That's it.
The fact that she can't actually romance women is a "problem", but that's more of a design decision problem than a character writing issue.
As far as I know, he/she's not the one who decided to alter the content. Nintendo is. And it happens they created the game in the first place.Why can't you simply disagree with the content ? Why does it have to be removed for you to feel satisfied ?
Don't we all have the right to form our own opinions on it, as you have done ?
I'm surprised so many people care considering it's only the Male MC x Soleil support that's getting edited. Considering how many other characters there are to romance as both MCs, the likelihood of people actually seeing this is very slim. She's 1 of like 40 romancable characters.
Again, where exactly is it stated that her "problem" is finding sexual interest in women, and not that the problem is that she can't seemingly "handle" her sexual interest in women to the point of not being able to function.
They're not trying to remove her sexual attraction to women. They're trying to make her be able to comfortably talk to and engage with them.
that doesn't seem like something which could be solved by making her see men as women and vice versa. the only thing that would change is who she is personally attracted to, which makes it look like conversion therapy.
The way I'm reading this (as in someone's posted translation) was that he made it so men looked like women so that the MC, now looking like a woman but someone the character personally knows and is already comfortable with, can use himself as a control to help her slowly build up the tolerance and confidence to talk to and deal with cute girls without fainting.
At no point is he trying to go "Hey, stop liking women, you should like men instead"
He's literally going "I'm going to help you so you can actually be with women without these anxiety issues you seem to have".
This is really the heart of the issue and it's so prevalent in Japanese writing that it's incredibly disheartening.
It's hard for me to think that she's seriously interested in lesbian relationships because then that would mean she's also interested in an incestuous relationship with her mother.
sure, and i would personally advocate for nintendo's legal right to release the game in the US with this content intact. that's an entirely separate thing from my moral judgement and applauding the fact that they've correctly realized that this would cause offense to western audiences.
Well...to liking "a" guy.
That's sort of a nice message too if you think about it, shame that it's buried under muddled writing and fucking spiking someone's drink.
and you're arguing that a plot element can't be compared to anything in the real world just because it takes place in a fantasy game
dragons existing in this made-up world doesn't change the fact that the story is about people with relatable human problems and interactions that can be criticized
the bare fact of this event is that a woman who expressed sexual interest in women is given a hallucinogen without consent in order to "cure" her of this "problem". the fact that the writers call it magic powder doesn't excuse them.
So you disagree with Nintendo's ultimate decision for censorship, yet you're applauding them ?
What about people who find censorship offensive ? It has quite the sordid history too, you know.
ok, but the problem is that this whole thing is stupid beyond belief, and as such the way it's presented doesn't come across as anything other than an allusion to date rape and gay conversion
her problem is her fainting over sight of cute girls.... I think this problem need to be cured immediately. If this translate to game mechanic it should be her becoming paralyzed if attack or be attacked by female enemy. Who would not want to cure this?
The deed is done anyway. Slipping in a fluid unbeknownst to you is a breach of your physical integrity.Okay, there is a slight possibility that this could push her into that direction but I'm doubtful. I say this because she's told right away about it and the only change in her perception is the gender swapping. They didn't make her drunk or stoned or impaired her cognitive abilities in any way. She just has a temporary different view on the world but she's fully aware of it.
My bad, there's a similar line when he meets her so I got confused.
It's a joke on her ''cute girl problem''. I mean that's right after the proposal and the line before that is: ''Don't cheat on me with another guy, okay?'' You would think the humorous tone would be obvious. But hey, the Soleil=cured lesbian crowd has been pretty good at ignoring context, so I shouldn't be surprised.
her problem is her fainting over sight of cute girls.... I think this problem need to be cured immediately. If this translate to game mechanic it should be her becoming paralyzed if attack or be attacked by female enemy. Who would not want to cure this?
I'm not arguing with you that it's not stupid. It's anime. It's always going to be stupid.
But aside from the magic powder in your drink part, NONE of this came across as a date rape (he wasn't drugging her to get with her), and NONE of it came across as gay conversion (he wasn't trying to get her to STOP liking women).
These are real problems in the world.
Looking for them in every little piece of media and blowing up a mistranslated/interpreted part of the game for it is fucking ridiculous.
So you disagree with Nintendo's ultimate decision for censorship, yet you're applauding them ?
What about people who find censorship offensive ? It has quite the sordid history too, you know.
and you're arguing that a plot element can't be compared to anything in the real world just because it takes place in a fantasy game
dragons existing in this made-up world doesn't change the fact that the story is about people with relatable human problems and interactions that can be criticized
the bare fact of this event is that a woman who expressed sexual interest in women is given a hallucinogen without consent in order to "cure" her of this "problem". the fact that the writers call it magic powder doesn't excuse them.
"aside from the problem when someone was drugged against her consent for sexual reasons it doesn't resemble date rape"
ok, if you don't see that we're never going to agree here
