Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
What part. Of him drugging her.
Was to get Her. to love him.
Please, feed me those lines.
If you do, I'll relent and I'll agree with you.
Battlechili
Banned
That's unfortunate. With this news in mind I won't be purchasing Fire Emblem Fates. As much as the game interests me, I can't support these sorts of changes. I mean yes, its easy to say that the content that was removed with regards to Soleil was probably disgusting, but I would prefer to be able to criticize the MC for being sleazy than for it to be changed in avoidance of criticism/understanding that people might not like it or agree with it. As I've said in the past, I feel this sort of editing is harmful to video games as an art form and discouraging to content creators, and I find it insulting to the original creators of the game in Japan. Perhaps it should not have been there in the first place, but I feel that since it does exist it should be brought over as is and be allowed to be criticized for it. I'll probably be sending an email to NoA about it, although I don't expect much to come of it.
I'm so sad this keeps happening to a lot of the games I'm interested in. I keep missing out on some otherwise great titles. x_x
I'm so sad this keeps happening to a lot of the games I'm interested in. I keep missing out on some otherwise great titles. x_x
Yeah if she had female romance options as well this never would have been an issue.
Is the gross male MC support conversation AND the fact they felt she shouldn't have any female romance options, not even with the female MC.
That's what takes this from lame to actively infuriating and offensive
akidnamededdy
Banned
I was going more for the "love doesn't always fall into binary groups" sort of thing but hell if you say so. I mentioned the shittiness of the drugging but whatever.
Like if she was uncomfortable around cute girls because she was comparing herself to them or if she was just uncomfortable around cute things in general it could work. But they fairly unambiguously tied it to sexual attraction so yeah.
He still.
Drugged her.
Which got.
Her to love him.
It doesn't matter that the intent wasn't there, something wrong still happened.
the part where that was the result?
i'm not saying it was explicitly date rape because it wasn't his intent to make her attracted to him
but the resemblance is strong and undeniably there
But somehow the fantasy of equal representation of other sexual orientations is too far for this fantasy games
Steve Youngblood
Member
Honestly, I'm willing to give the game a break and concede that this is all so silly that I don't think that the situation is explicitly date-rape-ish even though it's pretty easy to see why some would draw that conclusion. So fine, it's just innocent fairy tale magic stuff and not the equivalent of Cosby slipping something into a date's drink.
The conclusion is still kind of fucked up. And there's still kind of the implication that now that she's over her problem, she can finally move on to liking men! It's hard to not see how it can be interpreted that the key to getting over her problem is some form of a conversion therapy, even if it's still stated that she's attracted to cute girls. She still finds them cute, but it doesn't get in the way of following the righteous path of marrying a man!
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Import games then? You'll be constantly disappointed if you expect localizations to keep the content entirely untouched. It's often plain impossible.
sensui-tomo
Member
The story is still dumb for having a girl like girls but cant get into romantic situations with them and only with men. and a guy who looks like a girl.
Yeah. I mean I'd love to hear an argument as to exactly how not changing this scene would actually have made the game better that doesn't just rely on CENSORSHIP IS BAD. I'd LOVE TO.
I mean maybe if the original creators are set on writing regressive bullshit into their games, they deserve to be insulted because of it?
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I hope Soleil bottoms out in the US polls
Date rape drugs are typically used so that the person can take advantage of the situation while the drug is active in the victim's system, with the assumption that without the drug, it is more difficult for the rapist. Aside from the aspect of involuntary application, there isn't much else that is strong or undeniably relatable.
Yeah one of the other males she can marry she only marries because he looks "enough" like a girl that she can imagine him being a girl.
Like, holy shit how fucked up is that?
veloxStrix
Banned
I'm uncomfortable around cute girls but I also hit on cute girls. ;-; Until I got engaged, but my point stands.
More seriously, I don't understand why every game has to be realistic. This isn't the Witcher. It shouldn't have to take itself completely seriously. The scene being changed doesn't matter much to me - because it doesn't really take anything from the game and the negative connotation involving drugs in general - but the idea that all the conflicts and solutions have to be firmly grounded in reality is a pretty dumb concept. Reality shouldn't set the rules for games.
Of All Trades
Member
Except it's not gone. Nintendo is profiting right now from that content, and buying a sanitized version is unlikely to dissuade Nintendo from continuing to include content like that in their games.
poet at play
Banned
Censorship is the suppression of communication which may be considered objectionable, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient. This is, by definition, censorship.
Again, why can't you just be content to deem it as bad writing and offensive ?
Why must its removal take place for you to feel satisfied ?
Coffee Dog
Banned
But that's the thing: even without this scene, even if the player never knew it existed, if she fights next to male soldiers on the battlefield, she falls in love and marries them of her own accord. Where's the conversion there?
It's hard for me to view the character as gay when this problem she has only exists in a fraction of her content. and is otherwise entirely ignored if the player does not engage with it.
How was she tricked? She's told of the drug from the very beginning and it's not physical attraction that made her fall in love with Corrin. She flat out states that female Corrin isn't her type.
None of the previous FE incest relationships were this risky and I doubt Nintendo would start now that the series is gaining in popularity. I don't find her advances on her mother genuine so I also don't find the very same advances on other girls genuine. I think it's more likely that she just has a cute girl issue, especially since the game has actual gay relationships.
It doesn't affect her in battle, that was a mistranslation and the video clears it up.
Lalalandia
Member
BY A STATE ACTOR
Really censorship has no meaning without the involvement of the state.
As I tried to articulate before, I would have been overall satisfied with the game even with this shitty material intact. But it has been removed already at this point. This isn't the result of a campaign against the game, it's the result of Nintendo smartly seeing that this content was messed up and not something they wanted to push. So at this point, am I still some kind of fascist for being satisfied with the result? Can one be okay with a censored product without having to be labeled a censor?
poet at play
Banned
Censorship
noun
1.
an official who examines books, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.
2.
any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
Try again.
Battlechili
Banned
I would not say so, no.
They did not do anything with malicious intent in adding such content, so i can't say that it would be appropriate to insult them in any form.
Rather, I said criticism might be appropriate, as criticism implies constructive reasoning as to why something being in a game makes it worse or hurts a developed character. As I said, one could conceive the main player character to be sleazy from said scene and say that as a player it made them uncomfortable, which is then information that content creators and then put into consideration when producing future titles.
I do not see how they deserve to have content changed and edited from their own game by NoA as a localization company.
Some companies do a decent job of it. XSeed in particular I adore for their localization efforts, though not without fault (see their Senran Kagura age changes).
The problem with importing is that it doesn't really solve the overall problem with censorship occurring (in my opinion), and while more personal, Nintendo consoles and handhelds are not region locked, so unfortunately there is no way around this without hacking a 3DS and learning Japanese and/or importing a Japanese 3DS, all of which is a rather expensive and difficult ordeal. Although I will admit that's all more personal things, and really it is the best possible thing I can do for myself if I wish to play games in their original state.
I almost exclusively play Japanese titles so it really would be for the best for me to do so. I've already taken some time to learn Hiragana and Katakana, so I guess that's a good first step.
Uh....aside from the adopted siblings
and the siblings you thought were blood siblings but actually not.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The problem is her having both issues really makes her character come off as being lesbian. It's like they went out of their way with a bait and switch.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I really hate the censorship debate. I've never really thought of censorship as being something that is inherently good or bad devoid of any context. What's being changed? Why is it being changed? These are questions that have to be asked and answered before I can come to any conclusion as to whether it's a good or bad thing.
I would argue that the "concept" of censorship is any private entity restrictng, removing or revising information meant for the public.
But at the same time, governmental censorship is the only one we really "care" about.
And really "should" care about.
There's plenty of room between realistic and beyond nonsensical. This is a terrible character and it has nothing to do with realism, really.
Precisely this. Let's judge things on a case by case basis.
LordGorchnik
Member
I am so glad I have my import version. That's all I will say. Everyone has to over-analyze every single line in every single piece of media these days.
It's extremely silly, because you have stuff like Animal Crossing which had a ton stuff changed for the western releases.
R_thanatos
Member
I'm ready for Lilith to win every poll when the game releases
Glass Rebel
Member
Nice. Pre-ordered the SE to show my support.
Coffee Dog
Banned
exactly! Censorship requires outside intervention. so, by that definition, editing out Mortal Kombat's blood is localization.
So we're back to square one.
The localization/censorship confusion is entirely semantical, though those who turn their noses at any who use the word censorship are exploiting one of the weaknesses of the english language (multiple words for the same concept) in lieu of actually conversing with other human beings.
It's only censorship when it involves waifus.
Conflating multiple things to make the situation look worse is a practice that exists.
They don't "deserve" anything really, I suppose. Fire Emblem Fates is not a labor of love that these guys decided to create on their own and sold to Nintendo. Nintendo commissioned their work to create the game Nintendo wanted. If Nintendo wants to change that product, it is within Nintendo's full purview as to do so. We can argue whether the change was for better or worse at that point. This isn't one of the cases where Nintendo tells another publisher that they need to alter THEIR product to see release on a Nintendo system.
Yep. Same here. The whole Lynn thing was a case of controversy I'm fine with and actually agree with. On the other hand, stuff like removing religious imagery because of the worry about controversy of having religious imagery is something I generally don't like such as removing Dragon Ball's Halos with floating balls even though it could be seen as a harmless edit.
Not getting into One Piece at all with its original localization. Sorry about the non-game examples.
Have you ever been pranked? Tricked into drinking or eating something? Did it destroy your relationship with the trickster?
He says it with a smile on his face. I think it's pretty obvious that it's meant to be a light-hearted joke.
Relationships between adopted siblings are not incestuous. And that in the spoiler is also not incest and shows that Nintendo didn't dare go all the way.
you're kind of putting words in my mouth here. i'm satisfied now and i don't think i would be much less satisfied if the game were coming over as-is. what i'm doing here is saying that i agree with the change and explaining my reasons why on a discussion forum.
offensive material shouldn't be forcefully removed from media by law. pressuring companies to change themselves through criticism is an entirely different thing that everyone does all the time.
do you ask for games to be designed in ways that you personally favor? because if so then you're a censor by your own definition. it sounds like the only way you'd be satisfied is if developers produced games in isolation and only received feedback through sales numbers, which is both unworkable and not desirable for anyone. creative people need criticism to function.
Why must the original publisher/developer of a game be unable to change content they retroactively find to not work?
Was it censorship when DmC had the "World is your bitch" comment removed? Should Capcom and Ninja Theory been forced to retain it?
Oh no, I do understand the issue of someone throwing a "substance" into your drink without you knowing about that. That is the worst case scenario to happen when you are outside. They could throw ANYTHING. The most horrible thing is that it happens, and WAY too much D:
I do get that, and that this action (in the game) may be taken that way. However, I also see them as two fictional characters that are also friends (at least from what I read, unless they are not, and please correct me if I am wrond
, I don't play Fire Emblem, although I do want, haha), and a friend is doing this to push her, to help her. And, the only thing it happens, is that she now see women as men and men as women, and doesn't affect her in other terrible ways, like in real life. Sadly, real life is way to harsh.
Perhaps it doesn't bother me that much, because of how I see it in that "fantasy" context and they being friends, but I do understand why people are bothered by this.
Thanks, this seems like a more articulate way of stating the points I was trying to make.
Lalalandia
Member
Yup definiton 1 is the only meaning with any relevance, I'm not even sure what 2) means in the context of censorship being a noun when was the last time you called someone a 'censorship' that is a rotten dictionary you have there. In fact even 1) is better suited to the description of what a 'censor' is rather than a description of the act of censoring.
Nintendo clearly didn't want to be known as the company that sells games where you can surreptitiously feed characters powders to change the sexual orientation so that's on them. If the state isn't involved it's not censorship and Webster's can do one. The same way Nintendo decided it didn't want to be known as a company that sold fighting games with blood in them in the 90s.
Onimusha78
Member
K.
Where's my European release date?
Where's my European release date?
poet at play
Banned
I never called you a fascist or a censor.
But you are undeniably condoning censorship, in this instance.