Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
poet at play
Banned
Being vocal to the companies as to why we boycott their games is the other half.
And remember, SEGA gave Yakuza 4 an unabridged translation directly in response to the displeasure caused by Y3. Thanks for trying to make it out like I have egotistical delusions of grandeur though.
p.s - We don't all live in North America <3
You're right. NIS and Atlus, Sony did not publish it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, I know that mechanically she can't romance other women so she's not "gay" within the games systems but goddamn guys there's no way anyone can see what I saw of that character's presentation and not read it as queer. Seriously
NullPointer
Member
That doesn't read as a "cure to gayness" to me. If the summary in the OP is accurate the character falls in love with a male while thinking he was female, and that showcases a love that goes beyond gender and appearances.
I could understand if the problem was in justifying spiking somebody's drink though.
I could understand if the problem was in justifying spiking somebody's drink though.
vainglorious
Member
This is not too uncommon in Japanese media.
Bumbletron
Member
No sarcasm, I swear! The internet can be terrible regarding intentions, but I'm not an asshole! I figured a self deprecating post is something we can all find agreement on in its humor.
CenturionKei
Banned
Though to be fair, while I dont mind stuff like rampant fan service, slooty character designs, and other stuff (I LOVE those kinda of games), I actually think this would offend alot of people, so it's good that nintedo is axing it.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Good riddance.
Crash Station
Member
In this one instance, single-targeted sexuality regardless of gender (and also regardless of gay/straight as there are people that were thought to be one or the other go after the other and only that one person in said gender) would explain it.
The problem is the other men she can romance.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I'm pretty sure it was a joke
Self depreciation is normal for me but I appreciate it
cubicle47b
Member
What a bizarre scenario. I kind of wish they left it in.
thebisonxrc
Member
Removing it isn't going to make the game less enjoyable to play, so the right call was made.
poet at play
Banned
Here, I'll try something, I won't "censor" myself. No self-censorship here. None to be found.
You're being a cunt.
No one is going to join your side, because it's all just "haha I know I'm right XD
"
How appealing is that kind of argument? Why would I want to believe you? You are so wrapped up catching people in "gotcha" moments and trying to bait them into logic loops that the entire intent of your argument (one that I only agree with on a theoretical level, not a "this is actually happening" level), gets lost in you being an asshole.
I'm here to criticise the practice of artistic censorship, which this is the dictionary definition of.
I'm not measuring my success by how many people 'join my side' either - a debate is won through reason, not majority.
However, it's now clear to me that many of you are happy with censored media, you want your media to be made agreeable to your beliefs.
I don't think it seems like an especially agreeable sub-story myself, but neither are several pages in the novel I just read. That doesn't mean I'd condone the publisher excluding them.
And ironically, calling me the C word and the A word, something which I would never do to someone on this forum, speaks of the sort of person you are, more than it ever will me.
Just a FYI, there are more support conversations with her, and she mentions that she is also attracted to men.
Just tends to find girls cuter.
So yeah, 'cure the gayness with power of date drugs' is still a stupid exaggeration that requires more stretching than a 500 pound person wearing yoga pants would accomplish.
Bumbletron
Member
I'd like to hear your opinion on the last post I addressed to you. A debate is won through reason. As of yet, you have been losing by a large margin because you are almost adamantly refusing to back up your claims.
SenorArdilla
Member
Bisexuals exist.
Her personal skill doesn't change to from Girl Lover to Man Lover after she hits S Rank.
Which is why she needs to be drugged to hook up wiht the MC?
Or why one of her other possibilities is literally "boy more girly than the actual girls"?
And still doesn't explain why she can't also marry women.
nintendo is trying to make a product that people want to buy. they removed content from the game because they thought it would make people not want to buy it.
explain how this is censorship but literally any other example of editing isn't.
Clearly irrelevant to what happens in the game, though.
Except it's not. She didn't fall in love with the protagonist until he drugged her to make her think he was a female.
The fact that some of you people are pseudo-defending this is absurd.
Like, those of you who are defending this, what is your logic?
Do you not want to admit that there is something bad in a game you (think you will) like?
Do you legitimately think this is a well written character arc?
Do you think its ok to drug someone to make them like you?
Do you think its fine for someone presented as a lesbian/bisexual to only be allowed to marry males?
What is the endgame here? Why are you defending this piece of writing?
Do you not want to admit that there is something bad in a game you (think you will) like?
Do you legitimately think this is a well written character arc?
Do you think its ok to drug someone to make them like you?
Do you think its fine for someone presented as a lesbian/bisexual to only be allowed to marry males?
What is the endgame here? Why are you defending this piece of writing?
vainglorious
Member
Steve Youngblood
Member
I have no problem with unorthodox, non-binary sexuality. I'm open-minded. I don't have a problem with consenting adults not conforming to societal norms. However, despite wasting more time than I'd care to admit today trying to understand the nuances of the character that is Soleil, I still can't make sense of her character's presentation. Like I said, I'm not approaching this from some sort of hyperbolic progressive "This triggers me!!!" viewpoint, but the most generous viewpoint I can arrive at to conclude that this character really isn't offensive to homosexuals is that it's just so poorly written that the intent will invariably get lost in translation. None of the arguments you are presenting about nuance in a sexual spectrum or comparisons to a character like Kanji in Persona 4 is actually allowing me to pivot back to this character in this game and suddenly go "Oh, I get it now! This makes sense to me."
Lalalandia
Member
At this point with PaP refusing to elaborate beyond simple gotcha's, engage with examples of other media editing for multiple markets or even provide a useful definition of censorship (no PaP cut/paste won't cut it) I think we can write them off as a shit poster.
FYI Every lesbian I've ever talked to about this (and thats a decent number) have had reactions ranging from "wow thats gross" to "I WANT TO MURDER SOME MEN RIGHT NOW"
Starsailor
Banned
i don"t understand the debate.
In japan they can say things like that
In US you're shocked
In EU we are shocked
so they remove the conversation. Nintendo adapt the product to the target society. That's all, that's not censorship for me.
It's not like thee deadpool case in China for example, it's just sociology.
In japan they can say things like that
In US you're shocked
In EU we are shocked
so they remove the conversation. Nintendo adapt the product to the target society. That's all, that's not censorship for me.
It's not like thee deadpool case in China for example, it's just sociology.
NullPointer
Member
From your quote:
She fell in love with the female version of him. That doesn't seem like an anti-gay sentiment to me. Even reversed the story still seems more about a love beyond appearances.
Just because the target of her love ends up being male doesn't make it a story about somehow curing somebody into straightness. I'd understand if the story somehow makes the argument that only her love for him as a male is justified or allowed or right, but I'm not getting the sense from the summary in the OP.
Except she falls in love with him because he gives her the potion, after she asks for help with the problem.
I am not saying it's not shitty writing, but since we are treating these fictional characters as real people for some reason, to me this reads like you are removing agency from a female. This is not a good thing.
Starsailor
Banned
come on...fire emblem did'nt change that much, it's still the same gameplay.
Why censor yourself man? Are you afraid that someone might interpret your words as having offence? Why bother changing it?
FYI every lesbian I ever talked to about this (I assure you the number is actually above 0), have had reactions to "Oh Fire Emblem huh" to "So?"
Not discrediting the idea that some are going to take offence, but this is never a good way to credit an argument.
Except you can't romance her as LITERALLY THE GIRL VERSION OF THE SAME CHARACTER
of course it's the same gameplay, that's why I still play it and why it's great
but oh hey
lets add romantic conversations with loli 14yo lookin girls
lets make figures from the series of a sexualized character with her butt hanging out
lets do beach clothing DLC
lets do rapey convos
what the fuck? it's a medieval strategy game
eh, they've broadened the amount of stuff in it now to the point where i feel it's bloated and unwieldy
i vastly preferred the GBA games with smaller casts and more tightly-designed campaigns
wild wild rice
Member
I just started Fire Emblem with Awakening and already don't really like the direction of the series. Maybe I should go backwards...check out the GBA ones on the eShop.
Anime aesthetic doesn't bother me at all. It's when the aesthetic is presented in a puerile and uncomfortably adolescent manner.
Anime aesthetic doesn't bother me at all. It's when the aesthetic is presented in a puerile and uncomfortably adolescent manner.
I didn't remove her agency. The writers never gave her any.
He drugged her without her knowing.
She falls in love with a woman.
Later on, the effects wear off or something. She realizes her love is actually a man who drugged her into thinking he was a woman.
Her response is basically: "Oh my god, that's okay. Thank you for fixing me. I love you. Will you marry me?"
You people are crazy.
Starsailor
Banned
I don't play for those kind of support. If you go on that way, the Radiance diptyque is much more darker than any FE previous games, with serious subjects on support conversation, and you liked that (i think , like me
) but it was also a change. And i don't mind about the loli thing because i will not support my avatar with those characters and i don"t play FE for that.
It's like those people crying because of the casual mode, well you can play on classic. Why complaining ? If the casual mode can open FE to more people that's cool no?
Now see I'm with you there. I can totally deal with the wafi-esque dating sim era of Fire Emblem, but I definitely enjoyed the GBA ones more.
1.When the product has already been released.
2.When somebody other than the original author/editorial staff, or developer in this case, decides to edit a particular work.
3.Said editing is done to avoid outrage/controversy or avoid legal issues.
Starsailor
Banned
You should continue, the story isn't awesome but it's not the teenager thing.
Is that all you got? I thought you might have something of substance to say, I guess I took the bait. You clearly don't think women can have opinions different from your own.
NullPointer
Member
As I've said I'm not cool with the drugging and you are specifically adding the "thank you for fixing me".
I think its actually a good idea to have some love stories that play with gender and appearances as this one does. If her character actually says she's somehow fixed in the end than I'd completely agree that its a horrible message, but as far as I know (very little here) that's only coming from you.
Uhhh thats not what he said?
Starsailor
Banned
I hope Fire emblem will sell well in US and EU (i think it will consider the gamestop new about preorder cancellation).
We need fire emblem to survive, it's the only licence that nintendo didn't destroy this gen....but they made a absolute shit with the FE on wiiU
We need fire emblem to survive, it's the only licence that nintendo didn't destroy this gen....but they made a absolute shit with the FE on wiiU
vainglorious
Member
lol What?
does it have to be all three or any one of these to qualify?
because 1. developers go back all the time and change things in games that have been released, 2. this rule is nonsensical in this case because nintendo owns the game and nintendo is making the change, if you want a purely IntSys created, produced, and published game you're never going to get it because nintendo always has final say, and 3. this is incredibly broad and again encompasses things that the vast majority of people would simply call editing