poet at play
Banned
When I choose a foreign game, it's cultural aspects are a strong part of its value to me too.
Experiencing a foreign flavour is part of what makes world literature / cinema / drawn strips so appealing for many fans.
Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
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When I choose a foreign game, it's cultural aspects are a strong part of its value to me too.
Experiencing a foreign flavour is part of what makes world literature / cinema / drawn strips so appealing for many fans.
EdibleKnife
Member
It's not really an educational tool, it's entertainment. Pills are made easier to swallow with media shared between all cultures, from translating a foreign game to altering ages and names to be read and spoken easier. Making that pill is literally the job of a localization teams across the world. Sometimes it's egregious and sometimes it's minuscule. In this case it's minuscule. This isn't supposed to give you a window into the other culture at all because that's not it's job.
Yeah, this. I'm fed up with the excuse "but it's their culture, you westerners don't get it, open your mind!" when this kind of stuff is handled in a gross manner. When it's shit, it's shit, no matter the culture.
Just watched the video, and I don't know the Yakuza series very well, but it was creepy and uneasy to watch.
However, I suppose it was the point of that scene and I wonder what the context is exactly. I mean, there was a reason why it happened, right, the devs didn't do it for shit and giggles lol
FUCK YEAH CENSORSHIP!
Seriously, the whole it-is-it's-not back-and-forth is rudely off topic. Instead of talking about the actual change, you guys have a parallel discussion about whether you should call it an insta-bad. Well to hell with that. That is just a stupid detracting game of "are you a nazi?".
Seriously, the whole it-is-it's-not back-and-forth is rudely off topic. Instead of talking about the actual change, you guys have a parallel discussion about whether you should call it an insta-bad. Well to hell with that. That is just a stupid detracting game of "are you a nazi?".
poet at play
Banned
Yakuza's stories are my favourite in all of video gaming. I would read novels of them if I could.
Saejima, the middle aged man, has broken out of prison after twenty five years. He washes ashore, trying to convince a young girl and her foster father that he was just in a boat wreck.
This scene shows what twenty five years in prison has done to him, and when the foster father walks in on them at the end, he clues into the fact that Saejima must have been in prison for a very long time.
This scene shows what twenty five years in prison has done to him, and when the foster father walks in on them at the end, he clues into the fact that Saejima must have been in prison for a very long time.
So there it is.
My question for those more familiar with Nintendo is this : Would Nintendo have censored this scene ?
Sure. Nintendo don't do depths-of-human-soul stuff. They're a family entertainment bunch.
That gaijinhunter dude didn't get it.
poet at play
Banned
I don't see my games as just entertainment. I see them as nourishing and meaningful art. I have high expectations for translation.
I'm too intelligent for that sort of cultural pandering. Many games enthusiasts are. We don't want anything to be made 'easier to swallow'. It's a video game from a different country. We're intelligent. We get it.
poet at play
Banned
I doubt they would make a Yakuza game to begin with. They certainly would forego a scene where it could look like a guy is wrestling with his urges to molest a child, they would play it safe.
poet at play
Banned
Who knows, why does it matter? You're just trying to divert the subject onto your own pet soapbox issue.
One of the reasons the Soleil stuff is a problem is that it has no need to happen in terms of the overall structure of the game. Its ENTIRELY the result of how they chose to write that character, when there is no reason that character needs to be hte way she is. They could have written Soleil to be any way they wanted, and it would not affect the game in the slightest.
As such, keeping a gross scene like that in the game doesn't have any benefit, and changing it doesn't actually affect anything of note.
This hypothetical about an entirely different game from an entirely different company using a scene that is entirely unrelated to the topic at hand is completely without merit. If you want to discuss this, go make another thread about it. This is not the time or the place.
Lalalandia
Member
Let's not go entirely off point here with would they / wouldn't they with the Yakuza series, from the Fatal Frame V and Xenoblade Chronicles X edits we know Nintendo are deeply uncomfortable with bringing over anything that seems like sexualised young teens or pre-teens. While those elements have been a part of certain Japanese games for a while the willingness to say 'Oh Japan' has fallen off pretty sharply over the years and given that neither edit to FFV or Xenoblade altered what those products were or their message I have no problem with it.
Wait...is this irony? I just can't tell any more. It sure reads like irony.
poet at play
Banned
I see you're not adverse to trying to administer censorship yourself.
Unfortunately for you, this is a thread about Nintendo's censorship / translation practices.
I have every right to be here, a non-Nintendo owner, politely asking Nintendo enthusiasts if my favourite video game series would be likely to be censored on their platform.
The truth is, I'm still deciding upon a current generation console - it's either going to be the PS4 or the NX. Yakuza is the only Sony exclusive I care about, and so I'm trying to suss Nintendo out if I did make a platform switch.
Each of us gets to decide for ourselves wether a scene is 'gross' or wether it has merit. But thanks for your opinion.
Lalalandia
Member
Thread Title: Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
This is not a generic 'Would Nintendo change Title X' thread, start that thread if you want to but you're deliberately derailing the thread at this point.
Nope
Nope nope nope nope nope
You do not get to debase the word like that. Me telling you to get off your goddamn soapbox and go somewhere else is not "censorship", its "you are being really obnoxious and attempting to divert the issue entirely"
As long as Sega didn't have an issue with it, I can't imagine why not. Nintendo hasn't had a hand in enforcing personal standards onto third parties in over 20 years, and one of the more notable aspects from the Gamecube gen was the release of entirely uncensored third party games like Killer7 and BMX XXX, which had some level of censorship on other platforms.
poet at play
Banned
Thread Title: Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation.
Instead of offering unimaginative and unproductive snark, why not answer my relevant, reasonable and polite question ?
the only companies you would need to worry about 'censorship' would be from the third-parties, but most likely the ratings boards.
there are two ways it usually works in the industry. one, the company bringing over the game doesn't want to appeal to a certain fanbase, finds certain content gross, doesn't think the true intent of a scene was properly done originally (or can be better done for the audience it's being localized for), etc. the other way is that the company doesn't really want to go through all the effort of changing a game, but decides to ask the ratings boards, of which there are at least four, depending on the publisher (esrb, pegi, usk, oflc being the big ones). what nintendo, sony, microsoft, and valve won't allow is a game rated ao. if a ratings board comes back with something like that for the us or the pal regions, then the platform holder won't allow the game on the platform.
editing games where you're just changing text is a lot easier than removing a minigame for instance. so i believe in the case of fire emblem, it was a matter of removing the text because treehouse wanted to. however, there's also the chance that keeping it in could have earned the game a higher rating, and that they were depending on a t rating for this game so it could reach more poeple (in theory).
Gotdatmoney
Member
Yakuza is a third party game. No Nintendo wouldn't edit it, it is not their title, they wouldn't get involved. This is fairly obvious. When in recent times has nintendo bothered to get involved in the localization of titles they didn't publish?
Well, might as well.
In my opinion, I think they wouldn't if they're just playing publisher and the game was from a 3rd party dev. Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third was released under with Nintendo's marketing, funding, and support, and those games have a lot of adult content. I'd question more why they're publishing that game in the first place, considering the overall themes and history of the series.
In the case of Fire Emblem, it's a game made by a Nintendo 2nd Party that is basically deeply rooted in the company. Fire Emblem is a valuable Nintendo IP that is directly connected to them as their product, so any negative attention reflects back on them, not Intelligent Systems. Said negative attention can lead to loss of sales and hurt their branding.
I fully accept video games as art, but publishers are a business first. They want money, and they see pandering, marketing, and localizing to the region's culture, language, laws, political climate, and history to make sure they have the best chance of profiting. Is that censorship? No, for many reasons. The original still exists, and you can get it the way it was released in Japan. The American version is a different version, its contents are altered justifies it as its own thing. That's known as Derivative Work, a thing that exists in the Art World and something I fully partake in. There's no removal of something if that something still exists elsewhere. Censorship is the complete ban of the content, you can still import games and consoles from Japan if I recall. No one will stop you from learning Japanese, and buying the game and 3DS on PlayAsia, not Nintendo or the United States government.
What you want is the original completely translated into English, what Nintendo wants is to release a game that makes them the most profit in the region. Just say the truth, it's not censorship, it's Nintendo not pandering to your and other gaming enthusiasts' tastes, but rather the entire region as a whole. This leads me to my next point.
Let's be real, the loss of sales they'd get for removing this garbage subplot is not as bad as the potential outcry from the LGBT community and a lot of other groups. Nintendo already has a bit of an iffy reputation with them and this subplot seem like conversion therapy to some, which is a very big issue that a lot of LGBT youths go through here in the United States. Combine that together and there's a good chance it will hurt their brand far more than a handful of people screaming "won't buy cause censored".
poet at play
Banned
You are trying to police someone asking a polite, harmless question relevant to the topic, I assume because you find my views on censorship objectionable.
You know very well that that is a form of attempted bullying and censorship, and it's not going to work out for you.
You calling me obnoxious means that I am 'extremely unpleasant'. Feel free to quote me on where I am being extremely unpleasant.
p.s - You're just lovely.
Lalalandia
Member
Not getting into the mud with you, you're flat derailing at this point as many others have pointed out what you're asking is irrelevant as it's a SEGA game and thus Nintendo wouldn't be involved in changing the title at all. You may as well ask 'Would Nintendo edit Game Of Thrones?' as ask about a whole other companies titles. Stick to established examples rather than pure hypotheticals if you can.
I believe Nintendo originally wouldn't allow Binding of Isaac on the 3DS due to its religious themes, but they eventually relented.
poet at play
Banned
Thank you so much for answering my question without insulting me.
What happened with Tecmo Koei's recent Fatal Frame game ? That had censorship, so why did that happen ?
Nintendo co-owns the series currently with them. That makes it a part of their franchises.
Almost every post you have made in this thread is you being obnoxious and high-handed, demanding that we bend the thread subject to your personal soapbox.
Also what the fuck is with that statement anyway? I called you obnoxious because you are being goddamn obnoxious.
It's effectively a first-party game with how the funding is set up for the series these days. My understanding, however, is that NoE led the localization on it, and Europe has much harder regulations in place with minor depictions in a few countries, which has caused issues in the past for some publishers.
Incidentally, K-T was one of those publishers affected by those regulations at one point, so it would have forced some kind of edit even without Nintendo.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Which is different from actually changing the content. Even then they eventually said w/e. Def an example of them caring too much but not one of them forcing a localization change.
poet at play
Banned
If I may be so bold as to assign you an adjective too, the word I would choose is 'ironic'.
If I may be so bold as to assign you an adjective too, the word I would choose is 'ironic'.
You are an extremely irritating person
RichiRamjag
Member
Amen. I'm not really into fan service as game characters really don't do it for me, but it's getting so old to have folks around here trying dictate what is acceptable and what isn't. I thought that Yakuza scene was great and gave insight into the character and you've got folks trying to low-key shame others by calling it creepy and such.
poet at play
Banned
Please refrain from personally attacking me. It's probably a good idea to keep to the topic too - censorship / translation at Nintendo.
it is creepy, but i also think that was the intention. i don't think it was meant for titillation (at least i hope not). there's a difference between that, and an alternate reality version of yakuza where you play as the gross 45 year old dude and the young, underage girl is part of a minigame where you undress and sexually abuse her as part of a 'reward' at the end of a level, or you see her in compromising positions and states of undress for having completed a certain objective. and yet from what i gather, this is a perfectly fine hill to die on in the name of protecting the world against censorship, where there's no room for nuance or context. i interpret it to mean that in order to feel like they have the moral high ground, which someone wouldn't by actively liking said hypothetical minigame, they find another in the form of censorship being the true great evil. one way or another, i take it to mean the person is being dishonest in some fashion when they take such a hard stance.
Gotdatmoney
Member
That was a personal attack?
Anyhow how ia sone Yakuza game Nintendo didnt publish or release relevant to anything? If Nintendo published it maybe it gets censored. How is anyone here to know? They dont publish a wide variety of M rated games.
Judging by the fact Nintendo asked Platnium Games to make Bayonetta show more skin and cleavage while wearing her Link outfit, it's not likely they would censor Yakuza. They tend to let devs do what they want if it's not their IP these days, even if they are their publisher.
Lalalandia
Member
There has been no attack on you I'm just pointing out you've picked fights (your very first post was to claim to support the change was to 'condone censorship'), wandered off topic consistently, are attempting to redefine the thread and then whine about people 'attacking' you. Stay on topic and address the substance of people's points instead of fabricating claims and we'll be fine.
This topic is "Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation" and hypotheticals based on Sega's Yakuza series could not be further removed from the point.
Wow
Just. Wow. You consider what he said a "personal attack"? Really?
Of course, you would consider an accurate depiction of your actions a "personal attack" if those actions include blatant derailment, tone trolling, and a general attitude of superciliousness.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't actually own the IP; rather they own individual games. Like how they own Bayonetta 2, but don't own the bayo IP.
That's NoJ vs NoA. They seem to have quite different attitudes regarding what's permissible.
Huh? I think you've got the wrong game.
It would be ok if it wasn't portrayed as some cutesy shit and was actually handled like the disgusting scenario it's supposed to be. I'm more offended by how garbage the writing is than by the content in itself.
Yep. It's surprisingly tone deaf.
Yeah. The charas in Fatal Frame were 18+. The lingerie outfits were certainly tasteless, but saying they were on young teens is conflating several different issues.
From info I can find, they co-own it. https://www.vg247.com/2012/06/21/report-nintendo-has-co-ownership-in-fatal-frame-ip/
Oi, good point.
I think the ages were 19 and 17.
Lalalandia
Member
Poor phrasing on my part, my understanding of the Fatal Frame V debate was that they didn't bring over the lingerie DLC/unlock for the principle characters. I'm unsure of their actual in game ages but if I had to guess just from screenshots I'd say they were teens and that seems to have been close enough for Nintendo to decide not to bring those outfits over.
If there were any other changes to the EU/Us release I'd love to know.
Ahh cheers for the clarification!
I agree with this in principle.
However, i don't think this particular scene falls into removing "foreign flavor". It's a common anime trope, badly exectued. There's nothing particular to japanese culture that is lost here.
Saying this is some Japanese cultural thing is, while not quite racism, certainly gross stereotyping.
It also excuses American/Western productions that do similar things. "converting" lesbians is hardly a Japanese-exclusive trope, it gets lots of play in American media, though less than it used to.
What this is, really, is just a general lack of understanding or caring about non-straight identities, and basically using the idea of a girl who is into girls as a fetish for a mostly straight-male audience.
Try not to dislocate your shoulder while patting yourself on the back for being more enlightened than some other culture.
Edit: patapuf that wasn't directed at you particularly I was just using your post as a jumping off point
Silent Chief
Member
What's the fix? Soleil's no longer a lesbian?
Lalalandia
Member
No actual info on what they're doing so far just that they are doing something.
poet at play
Banned
Thanks for your thorough response.
Firstly, you've addressed what had me confused as someone looking in on Nintendo from the outside - why do highly violent & sexualised games like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third get a free ticket on their console, and yet Fire Emblem and Fatal Frame do not - it creates an uneasy feeling for an adult games enthusiasts like myself - but now I understand that it pretty much depends on how close that brand is to Nintendo.
I disagree with your opinion on what is and is not censorship, however.
There are two versions of the original Ghost in the Shell manga in English - one has nudity, the other has her clothes painted on (after the fact, by another artist).
I would describe the latter as being a censored translation, I'm not expecting you to agree with me, but it does meet dictionary definitions of what censorship is.
I'd also like to point out that something that is censored is not the same as something that is banned. They are different concepts, different words, and with different meanings and implications.
As for your final paragraph, perhaps it is a double-edged sword for Nintendo. They must choose between being seen as censor-nannies, or dealing with accusations of sexual orientation bigotry. Why is it though, that Sony and Xbox seem to avoid being in this situation ? - they sure publish their share of sordid games and objectionable content.