Both of those have actually had some pretty notable instances of self-censorship in the past. MS has the Conker remake which, in even its "uncensored" mode, has far more curse words bleeped out than the N64 original, while Sony took great offense to how the death of Jason played out originally in Heavy Rain, which resulted in the largely unintelligible mess we got.
Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
I think you completely fail to understand what the issue with the Soleil scene and why its completely not comparable at all to anything in Bayonetta or (I presume) Devil's Third
Depends on Sega, but probably.
It's not that simple. She says that Corrin's female form is not her type and although she saw a bunch of other men turned women none of them made her ''hearth race'' like Corrin did. In the 3rd support conversation she also pretty happy to be around you, although you're in your male form. This indicates that it's not only a matter of gender/physical attraction. However, she does say that she fell in love with your female form. Though, she still likes you even if you're male and your male form still makes her hearth race.
You described the effects of taking LSD as ''you're going to trip balls''
Yeah, doesn't seem at all comparable to a drug whose only effect is a temporary gender-swap perception.
People take issues with ''spiking'' and ''drugging'' because it's commonly associated with date rape. Had they used a spell or magic glasses or whatever it never would have blown up as much as it did.
Soleil doesn't remind Corrin that she's into girls and not guys. She says that Corrin's female form is not her type of cute girl.
1.) The drug is not the (sole) reason she fell in love. See my reply to Saucycarpdog in this post. Actually, there are plenty of circumstances where drugging someone against their will is perfectly acceptable. For example, mandatory vaccination; doesn't matter if the baby/child/parents consent or not.
2.) If you're going to throw out crazy theories, at least provide some shred of evidence. Even if that magic drug had deadly/lasting side effects (lol), it is entirely possible Corrin educated himself and determined that there would be no risk if Soleil took the drug.
Aside from giving her a potion without telling her first, there is NOTHING wrong with these conversations.
There is no gay conversion or drugging in the sense of date rape. If people actually check out the conversations (that video that's been posted in here is perfect), then I don't understand how you can take them so out of context.
IF ANYTHING, they could have Soleil scold you for not telling her about your idea sooner and/or you beat yourself up for not telling her sooner. There isn't anything logical about not telling her about the potion.
Nevertheless, this game is T for Teen. Anyone playing it should already understand that something like that (despite how harmless and minor it is) isn't a very smart way of thinking; if not, then it ISN'T the game's fault.
Like I said a while back, after looking into this controversy objectively and watching some of the game's comedic and romantic themes, I developed an interest in Fire Emblem that was never going to spark otherwise; unfortunately, localization wants to slam its censor hammer once again, so I'm keeping my wallet closed.
There is no gay conversion or drugging in the sense of date rape. If people actually check out the conversations (that video that's been posted in here is perfect), then I don't understand how you can take them so out of context.
IF ANYTHING, they could have Soleil scold you for not telling her about your idea sooner and/or you beat yourself up for not telling her sooner. There isn't anything logical about not telling her about the potion.
Nevertheless, this game is T for Teen. Anyone playing it should already understand that something like that (despite how harmless and minor it is) isn't a very smart way of thinking; if not, then it ISN'T the game's fault.
Like I said a while back, after looking into this controversy objectively and watching some of the game's comedic and romantic themes, I developed an interest in Fire Emblem that was never going to spark otherwise; unfortunately, localization wants to slam its censor hammer once again, so I'm keeping my wallet closed.
Lalalandia
Member
Uh huh smells like another derail 'Let's talk about generic violence and sexualisation in videogames and not the specific issue in the topic of the thread"
I watched the video and the text as he translates it makes it pretty clear that she is sexually interested in women and features no instances of her discussing men. She is drugged without her knowledge (which having her at least react to being told this would be an improvement) and then develops an attraction to a male MC that she never previously hinted at (telling her about the drugging doesn't fix this). She has the 'Girl Love' perk for flips sake that the game fails to complete the circle and allow her to have gay relationships is a broader failing.
Now I don't think there was any intent to have the scene play out in a 'date rapey gay conversion' rather that this was meant to be a 'cute' scene in a broad comedy kind of a way. That it doesn't come across like that outside of Japan is why they are talking about changing it and I don't have a problem with that. Your solution would fix the part where the MC drugs Soleil without her consent but it wouldn't affect the outcome where she changes her whole sexual orientation.
Lalalandia
Member
Damn double post my bad
poet at play
Banned
The non-Nintendo platforms libraries are typically more adult-oriented with games like Grand Theft Auto V pushing many more potentially objectionable boundaries than Fire Emblem. And yet its (arguably) Nintendo who seem to be making the headlines more.
What are Nintendo doing wrong to have a tamer library than their competitors, and yet to keep ending up in this situation ?
chaobreaker
Member
Sony and Microsoft rarely if ever have to publish and localize Japanese games with problematic elements like underboob bikinis on 13 year olds or this crap on Fire Emblem.
Words have different meaning and context depending on the person you speak to, never use a dictionary to prove your case. Here's an interesting thought though. The treehouse team at NoA, are they not professional writers themselves? What is Derivative Work, and doesn't it apply to them just as any other artist who works their own creative ideas on someone else's work? Is it truly censorship if the original content is still uncensored, but untranslated in a different region, that you can still buy it from said region? I just do not see this as censorship, and this is coming from someone who's been an independent animator for 6 years. I see a different version of a game, it's own entity separate yet similar to its original counterpart.
WrenchNinja
Member
Despite Sony making the Vita,they don't actually make vita games which keeps them out of this problem
They are the easy target. It fits the general narrative. "Duh, of course Nintendo and their family friendy approach, ruining games for everyone [me]."
Lol,
A) Sony and MS do not publish GTA, thus they also don't localise it (duh).
B) Implying there aren't controversies around GTA is.... where have you guys been? GTA has been at the center of shitstorms that acutally had political consequences. Every single release of that franchis spikes massive controversy. FE controversy doesn't even make it to IGN.
Yeah, they're taking the scene out of context and censoring it - which isn't fair at all.
Unless the video I watched mistranslated things, Soleil still loves women. She develops a love for MC after she gets to know him. That has a strong message to it - showing off a great way at looking at people (don't judge a book by its cover).
I'm sure that she would lose interest in some women after knowing them on a personal level. Love vs. Infatuation. To change all of this to giving her a same-sex hookup, even for the sake of just supporting same-sex relationships, would be rather boring to me.
WHAT THE FUCK
Are you seriously saying that her being a lesbian is just a phase, unlike falling in love with a man!?
No.
That's why I said some women, not all. It's not realistic to say that every person you crush over, male or female, is someone that you would marry.
Then why would you say she shouldn't have any same sex romances? And why the fuck would that not apply to male-female relationships?
Holy shit that was a terrible post
Valdfellgar
Banned
Yeah that's not what he said at all. It's like when you find someone insanely attractive physically, but then get to know them and lose that attraction because your personalities don't mesh. You don't stop finding them physically attractive, you just aren't going to be in love with them.
It's really not that hard to understand what he meant....
The word censorship has two meanings (as somebody on the most recent TvW thread pointed out):
- government/authoritative censorship, which is a legal decision made by a government to supress ideas or language (in the vast majority of cases this is problematic as it removesdiscussion from the situation)
- cultural/public censorship, which is a call, request or discussion made among a public group in communication with each other to limit or remove something they find problematic or offensive from a context (whenever it actually comes to something it's almost always positive)
Censorship isn't one catch-all word for removing something, anything.
Shit, I did not know that. The opening scene really suffered because of that. It's so obvious in hindsight.
- government/authoritative censorship, which is a legal decision made by a government to supress ideas or language (in the vast majority of cases this is problematic as it removesdiscussion from the situation)
- cultural/public censorship, which is a call, request or discussion made among a public group in communication with each other to limit or remove something they find problematic or offensive from a context (whenever it actually comes to something it's almost always positive)
Censorship isn't one catch-all word for removing something, anything.
Shit, I did not know that. The opening scene really suffered because of that. It's so obvious in hindsight.
Hmmm. I agree.
However, I won't say that i have a militant position towards censorship, so I suppose that doesn't bother me as much.
I think likely because of the demographics they target. Nintendo wants and intends to maintain their reputation as largely family friendly with the occasional outlier (usually third-party published games). Both XBox and Sony target a more teen - young adult demographic generally speaking.
Sorry, I think that particular phrase you're taking issue with was pretty unambiguous. They said it would make sense that the character "would lose interest in some women after knowing them on a personal level", because the same thing happens with hetero interests/relationships.
The whole situation as a whole though seemed really badly handled though, the shame-obsession in the character's arc is just... Ugh.
Explain how this excuses him saying they shouldn't have added any same sex romance because that's boring
What the fuck does that even mean
Incidentally, Sony did pass on publishing Rule of Rose, a game that does feature some level of sexual element in relation to minors, outside of Japan, with the buck ultimately being passed to Atlus in the US and 505 Games in Europe. I think that's been the only Sony title that handles content like that at all that I can think of, but it is an intriguing footnote all the same in terms of having to handle content like that.
Lalalandia
Member
It's in context and it is that bad, your awareness of how crap a lot of media (specifically Japanese RPGs) is at dealing with gay characters gives you a context where you can mentally wrestle the scene into not being as awful as it is. Raw this scene is exactly that, he drugs her without her consent, she hallucinates, falls in love w/MC, later has a relationship with him. The game didn't code her as bisexual at any point prior to her being drugged so I don't think it's unreasonable to say she underwent an involuntary gay conversion.
If Nintendo can rewrite this scene to eliminate those awful elements, more power to them as I said I don't think they knew what they were actually wrote here. How they do that is likely to be a debate in and of itself because if they just fix the spiking element we'll still be left with a character who is coded as gay having a straight relationship.
Valdfellgar
Banned
I never said anything about that part, nor did you. You excuses him of saying it was a phase she was going through. I don't know why he said he'd find it boring, maybe you should address him (nicely) about that part of the post if you want to know why he think it's boring?
Let me put it this way.
The game should have same-sex hookups regardless, but to replace this particular convo with one is boring to me.
It would be cool to have an option for it to play out one way or the other so everyone can be happy, no they want to just change the whole thing.
I don't particularly feel like being polite to people who don't feel that non straight identities deserve respect. Which is a large number of people in this thread
Cymbal Head
Banned
I like this post.
Just Fyi, she can hook up with all male NPC's, not just your player character.
Yeah, her lesbianisms weren't real. There are no lesbians in FE.
Are there?
Valdfellgar
Banned
Okay, let me explain something to you: What we are discussing is fiction. Fiction. I'm positive the vast majority of people okay with the scene in the game, are in no way okay with "gay conversion" in real life, or drugging people against their will. We are talking about a small sequence of events that sits tucked away inside a largely expansive game. No one is saying that drugging and gay conversion are okay in real life.
In fact, the person you're taking issue with now, isn't even saying non-straight identities don't deserve respect, that's something you're telling him he's said. You need to chill. This guy, nor me, nor anyone else who holds an opposite viewpoint on this issue is an "enemy" or a "bigot" or whatever. They are people with an opposing opinion that do not feel as strongly about a fictional series of events, as they do about real life incidents involving actual non-straight individuals and drugging.
You don't need to make someone you don't agree with an enemy, and for me, someone who prefers reading these discussions more so than outright participating, it gets really dumb when it turns into thinly veiled accusations of homophobia, sexism or what have you.
Whoever she hooks up with is up to the player. This is a game after all.
Still doesn't mean she straight up stops loving women.
Not if you actually read the conversation.
I did.
Lalalandia
Member
This is head canon not what is in the game, in the game we only see her comment on and react to other women.
If there are other scenes where she expressed any interest in men that would be one thing but even in GaijinHunters 30 minute video there is not even a hint of that. Instead we have a character who expresses interest in women not men, is drugged and then has a relationship with a man out of the blue.
We can think of all sorts of ways this isn't what it's shown to be but on a clear reading of the material we have a character who has had their sexual identity changed by a 'magic powder'.
Rhajat
Niles is a gay male you can hook up with.
They're both bi, aren't they?
Ah, didn't know how they were going to handle these characters' relationships with other characters. Shame there isn't a single other same-sex relationship option for these two.
Valdfellgar
Banned
No idea yet, all we know is they are changing it within some capacity. Hence why I've been reading the discussion, rather than participating, up to this point. I don't know how I feel until I know in what way and to what extent it's been changed.
Going by this new statement of Nintendo's, gameplay-wise only two characters are bisexual, and only for the main character. Yeah, they're playing it safe.
Also, half-assed gays seems to have been FE's thing already in Awakening, what with Tharja being hot for female Robin, but no oompah-loompah for those two.
Also, half-assed gays seems to have been FE's thing already in Awakening, what with Tharja being hot for female Robin, but no oompah-loompah for those two.