Right, I just want to game to come out so everyone can actually talk about the actual game.
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Fire Emblem Community Thread | Together We Ride
- Thread starter Chrom
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Right, I just want to game to come out so everyone can actually talk about the actual game.
It's going to be great for the game to be out and I can actually talk about how exciting I find the gameplay changes for Conquest to be.
Also, damn I'm excited to have so much Fire Emblem to play. It's crazy to have 3 full sized campaigns all at once.
DecoReturns
Member
Yeah I'm getting pretty tired of all the Fire Emblem threads mention everything but the gameplay.
The music one was good tho
The music one was good tho
I liked Conquest. I am in the group that prefers durability for weapons. The difficulty made up for it on Lunatic tho.
The chapters before were doable, just stacked against you and you knew what you were getting.
The first time I got so blindsided in this game was in Chapter 9 where reinforcements came out and I had no idea. I was so close to finishing the objective then a horde of 9 enemies surrounded me came and said NOPE. I knew in the back of my mind it might happen but I spent like 20 minutes on that run and boom someone died...
then Chapter 10 came right after...
The lava section in Hoshido was kind of dumb at first but that was doable.
The chapters before were doable, just stacked against you and you knew what you were getting.
The first time I got so blindsided in this game was in Chapter 9 where reinforcements came out and I had no idea. I was so close to finishing the objective then a horde of 9 enemies surrounded me came and said NOPE. I knew in the back of my mind it might happen but I spent like 20 minutes on that run and boom someone died...
then Chapter 10 came right after...
The lava section in Hoshido was kind of dumb at first but that was doable.
theprodigy
Member
To be fair if you were watching the Gamespot stream today you'd think the gameplay didn't matter too!
*vomits*
I like difficulty in my SRPGs, but I don't find durability to be a fun mechanic. There are other ways to balance weapons and give me a reason to switch them up if that's what you want. You can make something that's not a pure 'this weapon is better' without resorting to letting shit break on me.
Turn based strategy and puzzle games are the two genres that I cannot watch people playing. I end up wanting to just murder all involved.
dakkumauji
Member
tbt, i'm getting tired of griping on the localization
but they make it so easy to do so
but they make it so easy to do so
I like Fire Emblem weapon durability. Then again the main aspects of Fire Emblem that drew me initially are managing limited resources (finite EXP and Money), which durability factors into for the economies of the games. It's also why I'm not so hot on the titles with world maps where you can just endlessly grind. Give me the resource handicap any day, please.
I like the limited EXP and Money, but for weapons, durability just means I end up throwing all my cool weapons into a stockpile and everyone just uses Steel weapons for the whole game. I would like to be able to use cooler stuff, but I know the packrat in me will never allow that. I think if you properly balance the economy, you can keep the limited feeling and ditch the durability.
LegionAgent
Member
OT is looking good, great job
At least OT should be pretty fun when people start playing Mission 10 in Conquest. That should make up for people not taking enough about the gameplay right now.
theprodigy
Member
Durability is only annoying because a) people overreact and hoard everything and/or b) you have so much money that managing it properly is trivial and constantly restocking (insert primary weapon that kills everything here) is just more button presses.
Some previous games avoid b (but Awakening most definitely does not), a seems more of a problem with human psychology and I'm not sure if it's really solvable no matter what the game does.
My problem with Durability is FE frequently has weapons that you just can't buy. That should be an interesting part of risk/reward, but it just means I don't use those weapons until the final mission if at all.
That is part of human psychology, and like you said I don't think you can fix it. Basing the economy around not having durability seems like a solution I would just enjoy way more.
DecoReturns
Member
Chapter 10 Conquest is gonna be a rude Awakening(no pun intended) to those that only played Awakening.
MissDeviling
Member
Yeah, I like managing resources, oddly enough. It's kinda fun.
Also, I've been reading old threads from other forums that Revelation's gameplay isn't so hot. I've read a complaint about overly tight maps (though I don't think I'd mind this) and another complaint about horrible unit balance. I'm going in Birthright and Conquest knowing what to expect for the gameplay, but I'm still kinda unclear about Revelation. For those who have played it already, what are your thoughts?
Bad unit balance is sort of expected. The Birthright and Conquest units were balanced around their own campaign. Throwing a large number of them all in one pot is going to create some problems.
theprodigy
Member
Alternate solution (one of the few nice things FE4 had): when weapons break they don't actually disappear, they're just broken and remain in your inventory (but unlike FE4, automatically deequip it and equip the next weapon if available because fuck that) and can be repaired later at a cost.
Whenever I see people play, Ialways think they either: A. Play too conservatively and waste turns, B. Play too aggressively and excessively endanger their units, or C. They are a god and they get what amounts to an S Rank on every map, beating out the RNG easily with well planned out tactics.
So basically Radiant Dawn 2? I think I can deal with that. Jobber units only runs are going to be pretty fun.
I'm fine with this under a few conditions. 1)You can repair between any chapter and you aren't offered a few story based repair zones and 2)You can repair without the item being completely broken.
That would allow economy balance while still giving some risk/reward. I'm fine with either that or just ditching durability. I just don't like the traditional FE method of durability.
theprodigy
Member
No not really, Radiant Dawn splitting up everyone in their own little groups meant almost everyone had at least some utility...many characters in Revelation are immediately relegated to pairup bot at best upon joining.
in FE4 you could repair it when entering a castle, presumably if this were to be implemented in a future game you could do it between chapters yeah
oh yeah and you could also repair a weapon at half durability or whatever if you wanted
DecoReturns
Member
You guys just don't appeticate Lyre and,what ever the hell her sub commander name is, fantastic contribution to the army.
Fighting for Ranulf love.
dakkumauji
Member
yes, that sounds just like fe4
only difference was that each character had their own pool of gold, so it wasn't managing your weapons but also your gold use
i also enjoyed fe5 of just giving you the broken weapon with little ways of fixing it just to spite you
Even better then. The worse they are the more fun it will be for me.
I actually had to google to remember who Lyre was. I thought she was that thief.
I once did I playthrough where I babied Kyza into getting ridiculous level ups - both by reset scumming and stat items, trying to make him as useful as possible. I thought it would be amusing to have a typically throwaway unit end up as a major force in the crew.
He still sucked.
That said, when I play Radiant Dawn, several of those odd non-optimal units do have their usefulness in the levels you have to use them anyway. I kinda like the slight switchup from just using your powerhouse A Team all the time.
theprodigy
Member
Well you know, even with max stats Kyza is still a 1-range only unit with a 30 speed cap and a laguz gauge to deal with! (at least it's not cat gauge)
DecoReturns
Member
Kyza was the biggest slap in the face to me.
Ranulf is like "clear a path for us Kyza", then you play the chapter and Even Mist can do a better job then him.
The NPC were stronger too
I think most of us played FE7
I'm talking about non-FE normal people. Can see why people would misunderstand that, haha.
DecoReturns
Member
Most likely. Awakening introduced a lot of people to the games. That's why the marriage aspect is mostly the biggest conversations in threads.
theprodigy
Member
speaking of laguz NPCs, sometimes I deliberately try to get them killed in 3-5 and 3-E lol
even Tibarn is screwed if you rescue him while untransformed and drop him into the middle of the enemy, especially if you gave Nolan a crossbow
"Wait, the GBA Fire Emblem games don't have Marriage or Kids?!" - actual comment to me, probably not uncommon.
Between my high-res Azura, low-HP Silas, and the fact Nohr 10 on Hard/Classic only took me a few tries, I have the weirdest goddamn RNG in this game.
MissDeviling
Member
Shame, and I guess it's pretty much impossible to get all S supports without support grinding in Revelation? Wish they'd make supports easier to rank up, especially since they're locking chapters behind them.
theprodigy
Member
I don't really feel like they should balance the game around being able to get all S supports without support grinding in the first place, so no.
Besides, support grinding in Awakening/Fates is already the easiest it's ever been.
DecoReturns
Member
You thinks supports are hard to rank up?
Trust me they have never been easier
For what it's worth, I got S supports for pretty much my entire main army in Conquest and I'm still a few chapters from Endgame. (When I say "main army" I mean the fourteen-fifteen characters I consistently deploy; there were four possible female/male pairings I don't use, and one male character who I use but don't have anyone to marry him off to. And then a couple miscellaneous prepromotes who also got benched.)
I wholeheartedly agree.
I used to be like this too, but I don't hoard items anymore. You can make RPGs so much more enjoyable if you don't stockpile your items, trust me.
MissDeviling
Member
Why not?
I know, I've played older FEs. I just don't like how maps are locked behind S supports. I like playing all maps in a single playthrough and I don't like grinding for anything.
theprodigy
Member
For reference, assuming male Robin and female Corrin, # of pairings you need to get every kid:
Awakening-11 (22 characters)
Birthright/Conquest-11 (22 characters)
Revelation-19 (38!!! characters)
Because if I want to play through the game without touching a single paralogue, I should be able to, if it starts getting balanced around paralogues being something expected rather than a bonus that can't be the case. Besides, the biggest reason it's difficult to get all S supports isn't because supports are too slow, it's cause you can't deploy everyone you need (especially in Revelation, just look at how many characters you have to juggle).
Awakening-11 (22 characters)
Birthright/Conquest-11 (22 characters)
Revelation-19 (38!!! characters)
Because if I want to play through the game without touching a single paralogue, I should be able to, if it starts getting balanced around paralogues being something expected rather than a bonus that can't be the case. Besides, the biggest reason it's difficult to get all S supports isn't because supports are too slow, it's cause you can't deploy everyone you need (especially in Revelation, just look at how many characters you have to juggle).
MissDeviling
Member
Well, yeah, deployment slots are a huge issue. I don't expect them to change limited deployment slots, so the only alternative would be to make ranks go up faster so you can marry off some units, bench them, and move on to the next pair. I did this in Awakening without having to support grind, but it required a bit too much planning on exactly which units to bring in during which chapter.
You have a point about the balance issue, though with the heavy EXP scaling in this game, it seems a lot harder to break than Awakening.
I just feel like if they're locking away maps behind marriages, I should be able to unlock them without grinding. It's just a hassle that breaks the flow of the playthrough.
I'm on CH 25 Lunatic, so far the difficulty has been really tepid, almost more so than Birthright. The enemies are all very passive and you're rarely forced to split up or face down an incoming wave of units or whatever. Basically huddle in a ball of death and slowly sweep the map tends to be the strategy du jour.
The gimmicks almost all boil down to "let's make this map even more slow and tedious," like there's one early on where you have to spend a turn digging out snow so obviously you get one unit to dig and have everyone else on standup incase anything jumps out, and this continues for like 30 or 40 turns. It's just not interesting in the slightest. And any gimmicks that aren't slowing down the gameplay just seem inconsequential or end up actively empowering your already superior army. Like there's one with bridges you teleport around. But the enemy can't do shit with the bridges and are stuck on little islands so they're all sitting ducks waiting to be slaughtered at your leisure.
While I liked weapon durability, it really never mattered except for a few special weapons. I can't think of any game I've played where money is so tight that we can't keep our units equipped with the best stuff(I hear tales of FE5 though).
If they just took it away and did nothing else, I'd be disappointed, but seeing all the buffs and debuffs added to all the weapons has my interest. I think I'll be okay without weapon durability.
If they just took it away and did nothing else, I'd be disappointed, but seeing all the buffs and debuffs added to all the weapons has my interest. I think I'll be okay without weapon durability.
theprodigy
Member
Nothing says buffs and debuffs have to be mutually exclusive with weapon durability.
Technoweirdo
Member
Leo, I may have the devil's luck, but at least I have luck! >:[ HOW DO YOU MISS A 96%!? GAWDS, YOU'RE WORSE THAN AZURA DYING AFTER A MISSED 93%!!
(I suppose this is my punishment for all the other royals having at least one clutch dodge, including one on Ch. 10's very last turn. ._.)
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On durability's removal: Really glad weapons have traits other than Mt / Hit now, but even without, I'm okay with it.
It wrecked game balance because, far as I can tell, IntSys always assumed you were stuck with Iron because they feared you might go overboard and destroy powerful weapons before you'd really need them. Meanwhile, I would stick with Iron because I feared the next chapter might be the time they finally buck the trend of balancing for Iron.
So the answer of "Fuck it, let's ditch durability!" was fine by me.
Eh, while I had played more than Awakening, I'd say you'd be worse off if you didn't. Feel right at home getting Zerg-rushed while being unable to lockdown three chokepoints with just three characters (because Awakening has no chokepoints!).
(I suppose this is my punishment for all the other royals having at least one clutch dodge, including one on Ch. 10's very last turn. ._.)
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On durability's removal: Really glad weapons have traits other than Mt / Hit now, but even without, I'm okay with it.
It wrecked game balance because, far as I can tell, IntSys always assumed you were stuck with Iron because they feared you might go overboard and destroy powerful weapons before you'd really need them. Meanwhile, I would stick with Iron because I feared the next chapter might be the time they finally buck the trend of balancing for Iron.
So the answer of "Fuck it, let's ditch durability!" was fine by me.
Eh, while I had played more than Awakening, I'd say you'd be worse off if you didn't. Feel right at home getting Zerg-rushed while being unable to lockdown three chokepoints with just three characters (because Awakening has no chokepoints!
).This is true, which is why I didn't say that.
All I'm saying is what we've gained looks far more valuable than what we've lost. I'll still have to wait until I play it to see if that's true though.
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