Wkd Box Office 0401-0316 - BvS has 'worse legs than Barbara Gordon' -- Sibersk Esto
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Bobby Roberts
Banned
Holy shit, I completely forgot Goyer was supposed to be making a Krypton TV series based on Man of Steel.
That's probably fucked to death now.
That's probably fucked to death now.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Goyer was supposed to be writing/producing a Man of Steel prequel set on Krypton before the explosion. I think like, 50-60 years before.
It's probably toast because nobody obviously gives much of a fuck about this Superman, or this cinematic universe in general, much less the part of that universe that deals with the society that sends people to limbo prison via dickship.
Also, AV Club has tried to coin the term "smashflop" for Batman v Superman's performance.
(they don't seem aware of how hard it's going to be for Batman v Superman to actually pass Deadpool domestically, though.)
It's probably toast because nobody obviously gives much of a fuck about this Superman, or this cinematic universe in general, much less the part of that universe that deals with the society that sends people to limbo prison via dickship.
Also, AV Club has tried to coin the term "smashflop" for Batman v Superman's performance.
(they don't seem aware of how hard it's going to be for Batman v Superman to actually pass Deadpool domestically, though.)
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There's no "lore" at all. He'd have to make up some sort of story, and then give audiences a reason to give a shit.
And maybe he can do that. Lord knows Goyer's doing better on TV than he does in film. But it's a pretty big handicap to ask people to give a fuck about any of that shit considering where it comes from, and what it's married to.
edit: listening to David Goyer's episode of "Writers Panel" podcast, and he just said the approved budget for Man of Steel was 260mil.
There is no way Batman v Superman cost less than Man of Steel.
tiggerkiddo
Member
At least DC has entertainingly TV shows at least.
JeTmAn81
Member
It's not that surprising to me. You need more than just a character to really sell a movie into the big leagues. DC has been fumbling all their properties outside of Batman. They don't seem to have anyone overseeing these massive productions and making sure they stay decent in terms of story and cultural relevance.
I honestly have no idea what this show should be about. I have no idea if there were a series at some point, but even then, its far to away from went the planet exploded. I would have done something about Zod and the House of El, maybe something that lead up to the movie, but 50 years?
Man.
Man.
TheSlySoul
Member
I will legit be impressed if Zootopia manages to reach 1 billion before BvS.
Put in the effort to actually make a good movie and the public will reward you. We will still watch garbage like BvS, but imagine the numbers for BvS if they actually had a plan with a real director and a good script.
Just that anybody is better than singer., the Deadpool guys might have terrible taste in comics book at leas they read them and trust the source
A Superman movie where Batman is the first word in the title.
Well I have a feeling the movie shifted directions in a major way at least 3 times. They just kept adding stuff to the script to get the DC universe kick started.
We just need Lex Luger to come into the next movie and kill current Supes revealing him as a robot instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfCKETmbozA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfCKETmbozA
Exterminieren
Banned
Zootopia has a strong chance of getting to the billion if Japan takes to it like it generally has for recent Disney movies. BvS has little to no hope of getting there at all. Prepare to be impressed.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Same reason some filmmakers think we need slasher villain origin movies.
TheSlySoul
Member
I am rooting for it. A good animated movie should beat a drab superhero movie.
I told everyone this months ago! But a certain someone kept arguing with me that this was the master plan DC had all along.
Zootopia has a very real, even likely shot at $1b, while BvS has zero chance to get there, so I agree entirely.
Edit, beaten.
Do you not like any of the Deadpool runs?
I've worried that DC was just rushing to Justice League too fast in order to make that Avengers pay day. BvS felt like the exact end result you'd get from trying to rush that.
Optimusdouche
Banned
I dunno. I think George Millers Justice League probably would've been awesome.
I don't think these characters need separate movies per se. Man of Steel didn't do as well as hoped either, it's obvious what the problem is. The director and writers.
Get some hot writers and some cool directors. Snyder is the opposite of that. I don't know why any studio would double down on somone after Suckerpunch, one of the worst movies that has ever been made.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There is nothing so inherently complicated about Superheroes that necessitates any origin story at all. Never has been.
Hell, Both Blade and Batman (two movies well known for influencing the modern superhero movie as we understand it) began their films with the hero 100% fully formed, and only features fleeting references back to the incidents that started them on their way.
People just accept, unquestioningly, the idea that superhero films need that exposition, that table-setting, that hand-holding, and it's a ridiculous storytelling standard that is almost never applied to any other film featuring an ensemble cast.
It assumes regular audiences are too stupid to roll with concepts as sophisticated as
"angry rich person dresses like a bat to beat up poor folks."
"Nice alien man wears underwear and a cape to inspire us."
"Troubled teenager rocks awesome jammies and sticks to walls to do his part to help his neighborhood."
"Sad sack scientist has anger management problems"
"Rich drunk genius likes controlling shit and blowing stuff up."
so on and so forth.
George Miller's Justice League would (and still could be) a good Justice League movie. You don't need to build to it like Marvel did. You don't need to do anything the way Marvel did. Part of what makes Marvel's success so awesome is that they didn't need to do that, but they did it anyway, and pulled it off really well. It's a path, not the path.
Hell, Both Blade and Batman (two movies well known for influencing the modern superhero movie as we understand it) began their films with the hero 100% fully formed, and only features fleeting references back to the incidents that started them on their way.
People just accept, unquestioningly, the idea that superhero films need that exposition, that table-setting, that hand-holding, and it's a ridiculous storytelling standard that is almost never applied to any other film featuring an ensemble cast.
It assumes regular audiences are too stupid to roll with concepts as sophisticated as
"angry rich person dresses like a bat to beat up poor folks."
"Nice alien man wears underwear and a cape to inspire us."
"Troubled teenager rocks awesome jammies and sticks to walls to do his part to help his neighborhood."
"Sad sack scientist has anger management problems"
"Rich drunk genius likes controlling shit and blowing stuff up."
so on and so forth.
George Miller's Justice League would (and still could be) a good Justice League movie. You don't need to build to it like Marvel did. You don't need to do anything the way Marvel did. Part of what makes Marvel's success so awesome is that they didn't need to do that, but they did it anyway, and pulled it off really well. It's a path, not the path.
Good points, but they can still be done well. We might not need them but I am glad they went that route with Batman Begins. There are plenty of other superheroes that we just don't need too much on their background or origins, though.
I think the reason why there's "origin" stories in the recent super hero movies is because Marvel's stuff was pretty obscure before they made it big with the MCU, their second MCU featured the Hulk already being a thing, and that's one of their most popular characters. I also guess that since this is a universe where they have to fit all these characters they do origins for most of them because they show where these characters fit before and after certain events. They got the right idea with introducing Spider-Man already formed since everyone and their mother knows Spider-Man and he already got two live action origin stories anyway, but something like Dr. Strange most likely needs an origin story since the character introduces a whole different aspect to the MCU, the whole realm of fuckery Strange deals with, much like the cosmic side was introduced with a Guardians Origin story (I haven't watch Thor 1, so I do not know if that one was an origin, I doubt it due to the concept of the character)
WB had the right idea with introducing an older, veteran Batman. Doesn't seem any of their characters will have origins since the JL teases on on the movie indicates all of these characters are already established. So there doesn't really have to be an origin for everyone, but more like an "introduction" of where these characters fit into the universe, and even then, there's not always a need to do a whole separate movie for that.
Which of these two is Stark
WB had the right idea with introducing an older, veteran Batman. Doesn't seem any of their characters will have origins since the JL teases on on the movie indicates all of these characters are already established. So there doesn't really have to be an origin for everyone, but more like an "introduction" of where these characters fit into the universe, and even then, there's not always a need to do a whole separate movie for that.
Which of these two is Stark
And yet it's still crazy BvS STILL shows off Batman's origin with the death of his parents. Again. Just in case SOMEONE out there has lived under a rock for the past seven decades or so.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Now I'm just having fun visualizing the films being represented as horses and people making huge bets on them.
Deadpool is the "underdog" darkhorse ensemble, a black-and-red pony while Batman V. Superman is the "tried-and-true" pegasus, a yellow mustang with very very dark grey wings that are large in size, and bunch of white stars on its forehead. The pony is always neighing up and down the block, looking for publicity; while the mustang stares coldly at everyone it sees.
And the mustang is being unable to outpace the pony in the races, even when its using its huge wings to glide in the air.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
The Avengers works as a stand alone film, and even had character arcs to catch everybody up. The origin stories were good for some pathos.
But without that scene the majority of people wouldn't know that Bruce's mothers name was Martha. That would ruin the best, most dramatic scene in the whole movie.
Primethius
Banned
That was a good scene until Lois showed up. God, Amy Adams just didn't pull her weight at all in that scene.
I almost found it belevable too just based off Affleck. But the way Lois runs in there and says her lines... just went into cringe territory for me.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Before? BvS won't hit billion.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm starting to wonder if the scene was reintroduced (for like the 4th time it's been depicted onscreen) as a means to get to the Martha, or they came up with the Martha as an excuse to get that origin in the movie yet again?
Everything about that revelation seems 100% inorganically injected into the story based off a really cute trivia factoid.
If they ever make a film about the making of this film, this scene needs to be in it.Warner Bros beancounter sprints upstairs.
"It wasn't 70%!"
It's really crazy just how much the cartoon adaption does right.
Boom. There. His parents died. Here is there graves. There are their names. There is Bruce internally vowing to do all he can to prevent this tragedy from repeating itself. All told in about 30 seconds.
If brevity is the soul of wit, Zack Snyder's films have progressively grown more and more witless over time. Nearly 5 hours of material and he still couldn't make Superman "work".
They did it so the Martha moment resonated a bit more emotionally (yeah, I know). I mean, if your climax hinges on that moment, at least you have the right idea establishing it more clearly.
They didn't have to do the whole origin again of course. Plenty of ways to establish something like that: a quick visit to the cemetery (which they had, I guess), a couple of flashbacks, etc. I think they wanted the iconography with Zorro and Excalibur and the pearls and the bats, and all that jazz. But you know, I'm done trying to get in the movie's head anymore. They did it, it's there. Splat.
Bobby has the right idea. You don't need the baggage. The buildup to Avengers did help, but in the end, you need a movie that resonates with audiences and that people want to see. BvS had crappy buildup and that OW was still really good.
Edit: beaten to death like a henchman in a Batman movie.
Yep. I groaned at the origin and thought again! But then it made sense as you said.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
They did it right though. Opening credits, thug, gunshot, pearls, over.
Oh, and I noticed that the movie theater had a Zorro poster up. So it's amazing how Snyder can get such little details right but get main core things so amazingly wrong.
The "I didn't expect to be happy" scene in Mask of the Phantasm is fantastic though
And yet this Bruce almost retired from being Batman and be a family man.
MHWilliams
Member
I'm about to do that now.
eBay Huckster
Member
second one. the first is definitely Banner
Pai Pai Master
Banned
If fucking Ant-Man can get away with no origin story then any damn superhero can do it
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