yes they did. if only by virtue of no email interlude.
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I enjoyed Batman v Superman more than Civil War, who is with me?
- Thread starter TheDanger
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yes they did. if only by virtue of no email interlude.
That would have been great and moving had it occurred BEFORE
he found out Bucky was telling the truth. He didn't come to this revelation of the higher path until after he was proven wrong.
just waste of brain cells to make sense of something with no structure.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
saw Civil War last night
lolol not even close.
I took my friend who isn't into superhero movies at all to both films and they LOVED Civil War and said BvS is one of the worse movies they've ever seen. So much better all around than BvS.
Don't get me wrong tho, BvS was still entertaining to me but it's not even close.
lolol not even close.
I took my friend who isn't into superhero movies at all to both films and they LOVED Civil War and said BvS is one of the worse movies they've ever seen. So much better all around than BvS.
Don't get me wrong tho, BvS was still entertaining to me but it's not even close.
Well I couldn't and I have a hard time believing she'll be good in her own movie.
Boombloxer
Member
2 people already explained it--and Bucky telling the truth is a catalyst for him to realize that he was wrong.m and thus change his approach from killing Bucky to capturing the man actually responsible and rehabbing him as a way to atone, and thus becoming more of the Diplomat that his father alludes to earlier.
You can not like the arc, but to pretend it doesn't exist or that it's equal to WW? Horseshit.
Except he was ready to unleash his vengeance against
Zemo just as easily. It isn't until he sees what Zemo became in his pain and pursuit of revenge that T'Chala really grows.
DeadlyVirus
Member
Batman and Superman lacked motivation for their fight, besides of all the loopholes and the overall story not making a lot of sense. (How could Superman hear Lois across the city but not hear his mom?)
Civil War though, gave us all out brawl in the middle of the movie and ended with a emotional fight with real motivations at the end. I think it says a lot when I went into the movie on team Cap and came out going with team Stark
Edit: CW also gives a proper introduction to the new heroes where in BvS their introduction is on a laptop with some videos (it really had to be that?)
I really didn't hat BvS as much as the majority of the audience, but I saw too much wasted potential
Civil War though, gave us all out brawl in the middle of the movie and ended with a emotional fight with real motivations at the end. I think it says a lot when I went into the movie on team Cap and came out going with team Stark
Edit: CW also gives a proper introduction to the new heroes where in BvS their introduction is on a laptop with some videos (it really had to be that?)
I really didn't hat BvS as much as the majority of the audience, but I saw too much wasted potential
They didn't try to give her an arc, he's just there for the sake of being cool, and she was cool in spades. That's why we're talking about who was the hypest shit, not the better character.
Icyflamez96
Member
Team Stark exists? I haven't been reading impressions much so I wouldn't know.
Team Cap all the way.
Boombloxer
Member
Actually we're talking about arcs, not hypest shit, even though BP wins that one too.
DeadlyVirus
Member
Team Stark is essentially everyone not on team Cap + Black Panther who really has a motivation of his own.
But Tony's motivation in the final fight is much more personal than anything else in the movie, to the point that it makes Tony snap
Which again is because he had it wrong. That's twice back to back
he was ready to kill someone without giving any thought to it. That doesn't come across as an arc to me so much as a reason to keep Zemo alive for future movies.
Escape Goat
Member
F.R.I.D.A.Y
The topic of Batman killing goons is a different topic of its own, and as a fan you can either accept it like he has been doing in others movies, or reject this, at the end, regardless of him killing goons, the perception and what you have to assume on this Batman and any other Batman is that he will make sure to not have collateral or be sloppy into harming innocent civilian while doing his job, the Car Chase put way less (if any) innocent people at risk than Batmans car chase in Batman Begins.
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm just wondering. I'm sure people on that side has very valid reasons to be on that side.
The impression I got from watching the movie was that
Cap was the one to root for, mainly at the end when Tony started acting irrationally. Not that him acting irrationally doesn't make sense, it was a believable emotional response, but it sorta sucks that Bucky and America got caught up in that so I was definitely going for them.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Thank you. I mean damn.
Wakandans were killed in the explosion at the beginning of the film by the blast that SW created in the building. That is the catalyst that pushes the Wakandan king to support and call for the Accords signing. His father speaks to him about his lack of faith in diplomacy at the signing. The explosion happens killing his father and he is upset about it and sets out to avenge him out of pure rage. He becomes the King of his nation, finds out he was wrong about Bucky and once he speaks with Zemo reflects on his motives and changes his approach/feelings on this which will aid him in being more diplomatic as the king of Wakanda. Brings Zemo in alive and helps rehabilitate Bucky.
C'mon now. Again, you can not LIKE his arc. But to pretend it doesn't exist is flat out wrong.
Yeah, reasonable people will probably reflect on themselves and their mistakes/misconceptions when they find out they were mistaken. Why exactly this seems to bother you I don't know. Why you think it stands as reason to literally dismiss an arc is insane. The word has a definition. You are describing not LIKING his arc, not that he doesnt have one.
There's a difference between pursuing justice and pursuing vengeance.
BP's arc is about learning that difference.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I just watched Civil War last night, and all jokes aside, I feel like BvS, at the very least, beats it in terms of action.
A lot of Civil War's opening (minor opening spoilers)
and the later
was bordering on incomprehensible with all of the shaky camera work and fast cuts. It was like the beginning to Quantum of Solace. You have to wait for the bigger CGI fights to be able to enjoy any of it.
Also, (bigger mid-film spoilers)
... Was an amazing botch of what should have been a very emotional moment. Like...
, and it's such a low point. I was genuinely feeling it, and I thought they were using it well and then, "
" In the middle of the scene. I think I actually muttered "Oh, fuck off."
A lot of Civil War's opening (minor opening spoilers)
chase of Crossbones
stairwell fight
Also, (bigger mid-film spoilers)
Peggy's funeral
Cap's love interest just died and he loses the last person outside of Bucky from his old life
Oh, by the way here's Peggy's fucking niece for Cap to have sex with.
Boombloxer
Member
longdi
Banned
Yes i guess that is it, how the narrative move. It keeps flipping between "oh no civil war days of future past shit is happening" to " ok we are back to safe MCU territory". Things dont seem to escalate for me and this structure confuses me.
For instance
the oft-mentioned scene in the draft where Tony and Hawkguy had a snarky exchange, the next scene we are shown Tony is there to help Cap, and of course Cap's bff trusted Tony enough to tell him everything.
Or the poor War Machine, the only physical casualty in CW, went from oh noes he is in a coma, but ending with him up and joking. Co-incidentally another Disney film handled such a scene better. We were never shown FN2187 waking up and he even got a fren-zone kiss. SW:TFA, imo tied up the events of the movie better, it ended rather ominous, and i cant wait to see the next arc of these characters.
But in CW, i felt nothing much changed besides WS arc is closed and Tony knew the truth of his parents' death. The accords? With how OP our heroes are, Cap busted everyone out like nothing, Tony giving the L to the government, I cant see it as some major event in the MCU. Maybe if CW ended with Sentinals being built to counter our OP heroes? But #kevinsafefergie chose to end it with setting up two new franchises. okies.. we went a long way south since the Thanos tease in A1
Or the poor War Machine, the only physical casualty in CW, went from oh noes he is in a coma, but ending with him up and joking. Co-incidentally another Disney film handled such a scene better. We were never shown FN2187 waking up and he even got a fren-zone kiss. SW:TFA, imo tied up the events of the movie better, it ended rather ominous, and i cant wait to see the next arc of these characters.
But in CW, i felt nothing much changed besides WS arc is closed and Tony knew the truth of his parents' death. The accords? With how OP our heroes are, Cap busted everyone out like nothing, Tony giving the L to the government, I cant see it as some major event in the MCU. Maybe if CW ended with Sentinals being built to counter our OP heroes? But #kevinsafefergie chose to end it with setting up two new franchises. okies.. we went a long way south since the Thanos tease in A1
Boombloxer
Member
What? MCU and Xmen are 2 different things.
KOMANI
KOMANI
There have been a few products as of late, that defenders preach that you need to "think a bit".
These aren't books. In books, you're allowed to use your imagination to fully realize the world you're reading about.
These are games and movies, which are supposed to capture your imagination and at times exceed it. You can't fill in the blanks of a rushed/unfinished/poorly edited game or movie when the blank was left on the cutting floor. Those pieces exist, and because of circumstance, never make it to the finished product. You want to claim ownership and imagine what might have been? Go ahead. But no one else needs to live in your imagination because the product you so desperately want to believe in was never fully realized.
These aren't books. In books, you're allowed to use your imagination to fully realize the world you're reading about.
These are games and movies, which are supposed to capture your imagination and at times exceed it. You can't fill in the blanks of a rushed/unfinished/poorly edited game or movie when the blank was left on the cutting floor. Those pieces exist, and because of circumstance, never make it to the finished product. You want to claim ownership and imagine what might have been? Go ahead. But no one else needs to live in your imagination because the product you so desperately want to believe in was never fully realized.
broncobuster
Banned
Like most aspects of BvS, it could've been handled much, much better. As is, her arc begins as withdrawn and disillusioned with the world of man, and ends with her regaining her spirit and embracing her role in it yet again. It's a less insecure, less bitter, less angry version of Batman's arc.
Escape Goat
Member
Saying WW has an arc at all is being supremely generous. Shes barely even a character.
I agree. She was still cool though. I don't feel a character has to have an arc to be cool. I was anticipating seeing WW in a movie for the first time, and I was shaky on her casting. I wasn't sure Gadot could pull off stoicism at all.
But it turned out to look fine. I was excited to see her. The costuming was good, and not terrible like the x-men films and her theme gets fucking awesome exactly 1:58 seconds into the track.
I wish she had more screen time, but it'll do. She was my favorite thing about the movie. That and when batman punched a guys head into the floor lol.
seriously
her apperances were some of the legit good parts in BvS (alongside Batman warehouse fight) but comparing her to Boseman's Black Panther is just lol
Like, you can criticize BP and Spidey being able to have been removed from CW without the plot being majorly affected, but you can't in the same turn claim that WW was better and essential.
WW was one of the only good parts of BvS; BP and Spidey were amongst the numerous great parts of CW, and both movies would've suffered greatly with the exclusion of any of the 3.
WW was one of the only good parts of BvS; BP and Spidey were amongst the numerous great parts of CW, and both movies would've suffered greatly with the exclusion of any of the 3.
brandonh83
Banned
WW didn't contribute jack shit to BVS. Panther and Parker had MUCH more substance in CW's story frame.
Well, you're right about everything involving Sharon Carter being weird and bad.
univariate
Banned
Lol I love this post so much; I want to frame it
So... WW was more essential? Imagine the reaction without WW. :lol
Escape Goat
Member
Its not like Steve had an intimate relationship with Peggy. They had 1 kiss if I remember and Steve ghosted her after they made a dancing date. Peggy saw Steve as a good man before he got the vitarays. Unlike the other women who dismissed him because he was so wimpy or were later attracted to his bulging physique. I think it was this connection that Steve treasured so much. They both treated each other with respect despite all other considerations (Peggy being a female Army officer/Cap being more than a fundraiser).
Get with Sharon, Cap!
Get with Sharon, Cap!
brandonh83
Banned
She definitely posed a lot and... stuff. And... I don't know.
broncobuster
Banned
I'd argue WW is about the same as Spidey in terms of relevance. But to my personal tastes...it's Spider-man. Of course I'd favor his tiny role. BP's role is absolutely more significant than both. That said, I hold that WW has an arc. As for her character, that's the trouble in making the, imo, poor decision to introduce these characters in their lowest points.
brandonh83
Banned
For me the difference is that Civil War actually took the time to establish Peter and give him some really great chemistry with some of the other cast. I loved watching Holland and Downey together. We got really personal with Parker. Spider-man's scenes had more memorable action beats than whatever Wonder Woman did. I was super excited for Wonder Woman, but she just didn't really do much nor did I think she had any good actual chemistry with anyone. It felt like she was just there because they needed to use this to introduce her and look cool in the third act, but Parker in one fucking scene was given more development, good dialogue, and interaction with an established character.
I don't even think it's close. If you want to argue in terms of relevancy, sure, I guess if you took Spider-man out of Civil War it wouldn't change much. But I would absolutely argue that the actual execution between these two characters is a world of difference. Nothing about Wonder Woman in Batman V Superman made me care at all about her or her upcoming movies, and the direct opposite effect was had on me concerning Spider-man.
broncobuster
Banned
Well, again, that's the trouble with where the characters are in their lives. Don't want to get into spoilers for either film. So to keep it brief, the two characters are practically in the opposite points of life. In terms of cameos as commercials for future films, I agree there's a greater excitement for Spidey. In part because it's Spider-Man. And seeing him in his element, makes you want more. Only get glimpses of who WW was near the end, because who she is in BvS is ostensibly a WW defeated.
Perhaps I should be explicit here and say I greatly prefer Civil War to BvS. Not arguing for BvS here; merely trying to be fair to it.
What a weird series of complaints. It sounds like the fact that these guys are all still friends during the infighting really threw you off. I can't fathom what's safe though about
Rhodey ending up crippled and the Avengers now mostly being fugitives.
I also can't see why being used as a springboard for other franchises is inherently a bad thing or falls under "safe" category.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Night and day difference in quality between these movies. Very similar premise, yet Civil War hit it out of the park while BvS belongs in the toilet. Zach Snyder is awful.
How can you fuck up a movie about Batman and Superman, yet Disney is able to make one of the best superhero movies with like 15 different heroes.
How can you fuck up a movie about Batman and Superman, yet Disney is able to make one of the best superhero movies with like 15 different heroes.
By the same token you could say the whole plot of Civil War could have been avoided if
Capt America informed the UN counsel that it wasn't Bucky who blew up the convention and that they guy was trying to create more evil enhanced humans. The UN would have agreed and they could have all gone to Russia.
In fact the whole part of bringing extra characters into play
(Ant-man, Hawkeye, Witch Girl) was a complete waste of time since it ended up just being Capt and Bucky who went to Russia. Everyone else just wound up in jail.
And the idea that
this one guy went through all this trouble because his family was accidentally killed while the Avengers were saving the world? Really? Oh, I'm sorry we accidentally destroyed a building WHILE SAVING THE ENTIRE WORLD FROM CRAZY SPACE ALIENS!
I'm actually in awe at the stark contrast of WB's incompetence vs Disney's practiced bravado. Disney have proven to be incredible Brand stewards.
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