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[Adaren]

How much damage do you guys think Bernie can do? How is he going to cost Hillary the election?

He probably isn't, but when the stakes are so high I'd rather not take any chances. I think there were some recent superhero movies about the same idea.

And just because he isn't going to cost the Democrats the election doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticized for hypocritically harming the chances of the only person who can make it so that his goals become reality within our lifetimes.

What you said isn't mentioned in either link.

Oh I get it now. He didn't explicitly label his victim-blaming or draw unambiguous attention to his lack of sympathy for the abused, so it's all just interpretation.

Have a good day.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah, I can't imagine how he'd react if this were a real primary and his far left "let's size business without compensating their owners and dismantle the military and the CIA" past were brought up.

If they do wind up doing one more debate Clinton's camp should use it to show him exactly what scorched earth looks like.

 

[Bel Marduk]

My point is most PUMAs turned around, we want them to turn around, and being hostile to them probably won't help them turn around. Luckily Bernie or bust is a lot smaller than the PUMA movement so I'm not too worried. Just annoyed with how much of a stink it's getting as if it's some new phenomenon created by evil sanders trying to destroy the party when it's actually pretty typical and benign.

Yes, and portraying the supporters of a rival campaign as a dumb of dumb, sexist and naive kids who want "free stuff" as people on GAF seem to do in every thread is very counterproductive and will absolutely cost Hillary Clinton votes.

 

[Geg]

How much damage do you guys think Bernie can do? How is he going to cost Hillary the election?

If he's so bitter over this that he runs as a third party candidate he almost certainly will

 

[Cipherr]

This doesn't make sense though because the opportunity to continue his message, even though he has no chance of being the nominee, is still very much there. Why would he scorch the earth and give that opportunity up?

Hubris. Im expecting the same. When he is done, a strong condemnation for Trump, and a "warning" to Democrats that they need to "blah blah blah" in order to convince his supporters.

And that's it. He won't make even the most feeble of attempts to 'unite' anything. He will leave the situation on fire and walk away while it burns. The man doesn't care, and he is not a Democrat. Just signed up to be one because it made him easier to get a podium to stand on.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

This doesn't make sense though because the opportunity to continue his message, even though he has no chance of being the nominee, is still very much there. Why would he scorch the earth and give that opportunity up? I

If he cared about legacy and moving the proverbial needle he would have done at least SOME down ticket support. He hasn't besides the bare minimum set by the DNC. He is in this for himself, alone.

 

[Zornack]

If they do wind up doing one more debate Clinton's camp should use it to show him exactly what scorched earth looks like.

Bernie's finger would enter the stratosphere.

 

[Random17]

That would completely destroy any future political career.

It would also destroy the chances of a "true" progressive candidate ever it making it anywhere close to the Democratic nomination in the future.

 

[Parshias7]

Yes, and portraying the supporters of a rival campaign as a dumb of dumb, sexist and naive kids who want "free stuff" as people on GAF seem to do in every thread is very counterproductive and will absolutely cost Hillary Clinton votes.

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Can you point to where Hillary Clinton said that all Bernie Sanders supporters are dumb?

Or is this just a case of someone on the internet being mean again? Because if we want to paint an entire campaign by the conduct of its supporters on the internet then I've got some bad news for Bernie.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

How much damage do you guys think Bernie can do? How is he going to cost Hillary the election?

Of course not. Nor do I believe Sanders has done major damage yet. My fear is moreso the potential of him turning the convention into a shit show. Given the RNC's problems the DNC has a major opportunity to present a united front a roll out a lot of big names (the President, Biden, Bill, Warren, Hillary, etc). But imagine a convention with a handful of loud, angry Sanders supporters interrupting the delegate process or even interrupting speeches.

 

[atr0cious]

This is not a great argument for why he should be president.

Especially as an African American. Oh wait, you think only your ways will solve inequality, which has been proven wrong in your own state? And you won't even listen to the local black community? And his supporters wonder why the black community said he wasn't liberal enough for them. Good thing he decided to write them off and insult them on his way out.

The American political system? It's not some secret. Do you think Donald "I have a great relationship with the blacks" Drumpf is donating to campaigns just out of the kindness of his heart. Yes, it is undeniable. No, I'm not interested in semantics.


It wasnt that type of argument.

If you actually cared about the political system, you would know who's breaking it. You would know who's trying to fight it, and how hard it is to change shit literally built into the culture of our society. But it seems you're not interested in caring. Have fun watching us suffer!

 

[Blader]

Hubris. Im expecting the same. When he is done, a strong condemnation for Trump, and a "warning" to Democrats that they need to "blah blah blah" in order to convince his supporters.

And that's it. He won't make even the most feeble of attempts to 'unite' anything. He will leave the situation on fire and walk away while it burns. The man doesn't care, and he is not a Democrat. Just signed up to be one because it made him easier to get a podium to stand on.

I couldn't believe when he and his supporters in the room at the last debate acted so incredulous over the "Are you a real Democrat?" question. Of course he isn't a Democrat! He has been a long-time registered independent and only switched to the party to run for president, something he admitted himself in a previous debate as well.

 

[Ray Down]

It would also destroy the chances of a "true" progressive candidate ever it making it anywhere close to the Democratic nomination in the future.

And give us a republican supreme court that will prevent any progressive policies.

 

[Toparaman]

Some Hillary supporters here are off the rails. They've convinced themselves sanders and his supporters are all closet racists because of the voting demographics. They go read the most fringe elements of his support and pretend it reflects the entire 40% of primary voters that have voted for him. They think he's as bad as trump and accuse him of literally trying to destroy the party. The level of delusion is just flat out insane.



http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?p=203972755#post203972755

Yeah, I don't get the love for Hilary on GAF, and I've always leaned towards her over Bernie. I just don't get how you can stan for someone who doesn't seem to have a sincere bone in her body. She just happens to be the best candidate in an uninspiring lineup.

Never thought a gaming forum would have this much love for the politician who thought it would be a good use of the FTC's time and money to investigate a hidden (consensual) sex minigame in GTA San Andreas.

 

[Bel Marduk]

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Can you point to where Hillary Clinton said that all Bernie Sanders supporters are dumb?

Or is this just a case of someone on the internet being mean again? Because if we want to paint an entire campaign by the conduct of its supporters on the internet then I've got some bad news for Bernie.

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

 

[legacyzero]

I don't think he will.

He has no reason to, really. He may condemn Trump and imply that Hillary is the better candidate by default, but he really has no reason to support the party and/or Hillary.

As many have pointed out, this is the end of his political career and he clearly wants to enact operation scorched earth on the way out.



I mean, you literally admitted that you aren't going to read or consider any of the evidence because of the 'tone', which is subjective and conceivably perceived.

So why should anyone engage in an honest debate with you? You've already said you won't consider the evidence.

So you deflect at the request for proof.

It's the perfect example. He's right about that. Just not for what he's talking about.

That was a request for proof?

Also, Im in here debating, so that seems to means Im not willong to accept the evidence? Huh? My point was regarding Sanders supporters in general, and why they dont come into threads like these.

And I'll reverse the argument. Ive posted proof many many many times, and theyre usually met with "Out of context!" (??), "YOUTUBE IS NOT A VALID SOURCE!", Or other dismissive reasons. And why bother having debate with somebody when youre always met with condescending remarks like being accused of confirmation bias?

But my point keeps getting proven.

 

[Blader]

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

You're not voting for a candidate's supporters.

And don't act like the case for why Hillary should be president has never made. Its been made dozens of times, over and over again, laid out clearly and as nice as possible, just on this forum alone. Maybe you've just happened to miss all of these posts, but "her supporters are not making a case for her" is patently untrue.

 

[Parshias7]

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

Who cares?

 

[jack_package_200]

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

She can properly articulate her policy in detail and not just keep using the same buzzwords over and over. Her rhetoric hasn't encouraged bad behavior and harassment. She isn't blaming everyone else for her own shortcomings. She isn't trying to throw the party she running to be the face of under the bus.

 

[CharminUltra]

In three weeks time we won't have to hear about this loser anymore.

Or at least I hope so.

 

[Maxim726X]

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

But we have. Exhaustively.

Her promise of selecting liberal justice(s), her desire to get CU repealed (which was created to make a smear piece about her in 2008), her desire to assist down ticket elections in the hopes that she can actually do anything she's promised (which Bernie has refused to do), her foreign relation experience, her desire to raise the minimum wage, her desire to help equalize pay for men and women, her desire to strengthen gun control... I could go on. This was just off the top of my head.

But people don't want to hear it. They're too busy accusing her of being a part of the 'establishment' which apparently renders all of her ideals, her history, and her plans meaningless.

 

[Future]

He's an angry dude that likes to inflame similar to GOP to be honest. And like GOP supporters will defend it claiming the cause is good so it's ok. When in reality all it does is promote conflict and vitriol

I'm gonna miss Obama .

 

[semisonic]

That was a request for proof?

Also, Im in here debating, so that seems to means Im not willong to accept the evidence? Huh? My point was regarding Sanders supporters in general, and why they dont come into threads like these.

And I'll reverse the argument. Ive posted proof many many many times, and theyre usually met with "Out of context!" (??), "YOUTUBE IS NOT A VALID SOURCE!", Or other dismissive reasons. And why bother having debate with somebody when youre always met with condescending remarks like being accused of confirmation bias?

But my point keeps getting proven.

The reason that your proof is usually rejected is because youtube is not a valid source. There's plenty of accredited articles by well-respected journalists on just about any issue you want to weight in on, but instead you link to youtube videos which are subject to none of the same scrutiny, made by Chucklefuck "I'm Opinionated" McNobody (his friends call him Opi) to prove your points. Your proof is laughed off because it's roughly equivalent to that dude earlier who was posting an r/sandersforpresident link to tell us "The Real Story." If you want your opinions and thoughts on the issue to be taken seriously, do your research, vet your sources, and post your evidence. Anyone can have an opinion. But when you step up to PoliGAF, you better have some good shit to back it up.

 

[Macam]

But imagine a convention with a handful of loud, angry Sanders supporters interrupting the delegate process or even interrupting speeches.

Oh, the horror.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Who cares?

You should if you want her to be elected president.

 

[BotoxAgent]

But we have. Exhaustively.

Her promise of selecting liberal justice(s), her desire to get CU repealed (which was created to make a smear piece about her in 2008), her desire to assist down ticket elections in the hopes that she can actually do anything she's promised (which Bernie has refused to do), her foreign relation experience, her desire to raise the minimum wage, her desire to help equalize pay for men and women, her desire to strengthen gun control... I could go on. This was just off the top of my head.

But people don't want to hear it. They're too busy accusing her of being a part of the 'establishment' which apparently renders all of her ideals, her history, and her plans meaningless.

I agree with this

 

[pigeon]

Yeah, I don't get the love for Hilary on GAF, and I've always leaned towards her over Bernie. I just don't get how you can stan for someone who doesn't seem to have a sincere bone in her body. She just happens to be the best candidate in an uninspiring lineup.

Sincerity is overrated.

The job of a politician is to execute on the policy demands of their constituency, not to believe in things.

Hillary is by far the best candidate on the question of "will this person execute on the goals of the Democratic Party, which I happen to support?"

Never thought a gaming forum would have this much love for the politician who thought it would be a good use of the FTC's time and money to investigate a hidden (consensual) sex minigame in GTA San Andreas.

Honestly, I never thought people would actually bring Hot Coffee up as a legitimate reason to not like Hillary, but clearly that was my mistake since it's happened like a hundred times.

 

[Timedog]

If you actually cared about the political system, you would know who's breaking it. You would know who's trying to fight it, and how hard it is to change shit literally built into the culture of our society. But it seems you're not interested in caring. Have fun watching us suffer!

I have no clue what you're talking about. Did you quote the right person?

 

[Archer]

Welcome to the Layer Cake, Bernie.

 

[Parshias7]

You should if you want her to be elected president.

It's not a random internet forum user's duty to hold your hand through this election, nor is it their duty to represent a candidate's platform. It is the candidate's responsibility to do this.

If you can't support Hillary because some dick said a mean thing, then how can you support Sanders when some other dicks are sending death threats?

 

[smurfx]

How many people posting here now do you think were posting here 8 years ago?

i was here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13269249&postcount=103

 

[Justin]

Maybe Clinton should get Barney Frank to go speak "uncharacteristically nicely" to sanders supporters with hurt feelings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NKXyJOEzf3o

 

[Fenderputty]

Wah nobody accepts my YouTube links as proof of corruption wah

I can't believe I'm reading this shit

 

[StormKing]

Sincerity is overrated.

The job of a politician is to execute on the policy demands of their constituency, not to believe in things.

Hillary is by far the best candidate on the question of "will this person execute on the goals of the Democratic Party, which I happen to support?"

Sincerity or at least the appearance of it is what gets politicians elected. It's the main reason why Trump has a real chance of beating Hilary in the general election.

 

[_woLf]

I hope this guy is never elected to any public position again.

Selfish and absolutely disgusting.

 

[Fenderputty]

Sincerity or at least the appearance of it is what gets politicians elected. It's the main reason why Trump has a real chance of beating Hilary in the general election.

Lol @Trump even seeming sincere.

 

[Bel Marduk]

It's not a random internet forum user's duty to hold your hand through this election, nor is it their duty to represent a candidate's platform. It is the candidate's responsibility to do this.

If you can't support Hillary because some dick said a mean thing, then how can you support Sanders when some other dicks are sending death threats?

I wasn't asking you to. I was stating that being overtly hostile and negative toward a primary candidate's supporters while pivoting toward a general election campaign is not conducive to the goal of Hilary Clinton's campaign -- which is her winning the presidency.

and yes, I would feel the same way if Sanders had become the nominee.

 

[ApharmdX]

Yeah, I don't get the love for Hilary on GAF, and I've always leaned towards her over Bernie. I just don't get how you can stan for someone who doesn't seem to have a sincere bone in her body. She just happens to be the best candidate in an uninspiring lineup.

Never thought a gaming forum would have this much love for the politician who thought it would be a good use of the FTC's time and money to investigate a hidden (consensual) sex minigame in GTA San Andreas.

It is a little odd. I've seen posters literally say that Hillary's record as a craven politician is somehow desirable or even admirable, or that taking millions from big banks doesn't influence her decisions. I think it's just an Internet/NeoGAF thing, product of an echo chamber effect? The Hillary supporters I know irl don't say that kind of stuff. They are mainstream Dems, particularly minorities, who have a favorable opinion of the Clintons despite their flaws.

Never once have I said Hillary Clinton did this personally. I'm talking about the obnoxious behavior of her supporters. Its not a matter of being mean, its that her supporters are not making a case of why she should be the next president and are instead insulting the supporters of her primary opponent. Seems pretty counterproductive.

I think there's a huge difference between the case for Hillary for president over Bernie versus the case for her as president over Trump. In the latter scenario, the case looks much stronger to (reasonable) liberal voters.

 

[Justin]

Sincerity or at least the appearance of it is what gets politicians elected. It's the main reason why Trump has a real chance of beating Hilary in the general election.

Hillary has admitted that she isn't a very good campaigner but if you listen to her talk about policy she comes off extremely knowlegeable and sincere.

 

[Maxim726X]

Lol @Trump even seeming sincere.

Yes, quite sincere.

So much so that he realizes that he's never even going to build the fucking wall and has said so off the record.

People, come on... Donald Trump said his favorite book is the Bible, then said his favorite verse was 'two Corinthians'. For the uninitiated, it's 'the second Corinthians.' I know this, and I'm not even religious. Imagine making such a mistake if the Bible was 'your favorite book'.

He's the most insincere person I've ever seen run for public office.

 

[pigeon]

Sincerity or at least the appearance of it is what gets politicians elected. It's the main reason why Trump has a real chance of beating Hilary in the general election.

Sincerity is a subjective judgement heavily informed by priors.

I don't really view Hillary as being insincere on most issues. But I like her.

A lot of people who don't like her view her as constantly being insincere.

There's not an objective truth, there's just a personal judgement.

 

[TheFatOne]

Sincerity or at least the appearance of it is what gets politicians elected. It's the main reason why Trump has a real chance of beating Hilary in the general election.

Racism is the reason Trump is in the general. Not sincerity.

 

[Bel Marduk]

I think there's a huge difference between the case for Hillary for president over Bernie versus the case for her as president over Trump. In the latter scenario, the case looks much stronger to (reasonable) liberal voters.

I absolutely agree with you there and don't believe any sane Sanders supporter would vote for Trump.

 

[atr0cious]

I have no clue what you're talking about. Did you quote the right person?

You equated Donald to Hillary

The American political system? It's not some secret. Do you think Trump is donating to campaigns just out of the kindness of his heart. Yes, it is undeniable. No, I'm not interested in semantics.

and I'm slapping that dumb shit down. If you can't see how a tv personality and a woman who has been a target since she entered the political ring are different, or what they've both done to get where they are, you were never interested in politics, let alone enacting positive change.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This basically. In every democrat thread I see Bernie supporters being mocked for a variety of reasons, but a big one being used is someone's first election. Apparently the fact that people are unhappy with the way the government is operating is a bad reason to get involved with the process. It's weird though bc gaf is one of the few, if not the only overwhelmingly pro-Hillary forum out there.

Well other than the forum that is the US Democratic Primary. Which has been overwhelmingly pro Clinton by oh 3 million votes

 

[ApharmdX]

Sincerity is overrated.

The job of a politician is to execute on the policy demands of their constituency, not to believe in things.

Hillary is by far the best candidate on the question of "will this person execute on the goals of the Democratic Party, which I happen to support?"

Eww. Hey, you know you can have both, right? That's why Obama was 10x the presidential candidate that Clinton was. He hasn't always been on the progressive side of policy decisions, but by most accounts he has a deep-seated decency and overall consistency of beliefs. At the very least, Obama presents as someone who is sincere. Hillary Clinton has none of this.

God, I wish we could have a third term of Obama. I prefer Bernie's policies by far but Obama has been relatively effective at getting things done, given this Congress.

 

[Blader]

Eww. Hey, you know you can have both, right? That's why Obama was 10x the presidential candidate that Clinton was. He hasn't always been on the progressive side of policy decisions, but by most accounts he has a deep-seated decency and overall consistency of beliefs. At the very least, Obama presents as someone who is sincere. Hillary Clinton has none of this.

God, I wish we could have a third term of Obama. I prefer Bernie's policies by far but Obama has been relatively effective at getting things done, given this Congress.

Hillary would effectively be a third Obama term, and potentially more liberal.

 

[atr0cious]

Eww. Hey, you know you can have both, right? That's why Obama was 10x the presidential candidate that Clinton was. He hasn't always been on the progressive side of policy decisions, but by most accounts he has a deep-seated decency and overall consistency of beliefs. At the very least, Obama presents as someone who is sincere. Hillary Clinton has none of this.

God, I wish we could have a third term of Obama. I prefer Bernie's policies by far but Obama has been relatively effective at getting things done, given this Congress.

...Hillary is to the left of Obama.

 

[pigeon]

Eww. Hey, you know you can have both, right?

Sure, but I don't want both.

This is actually a big problem with Bernie Sanders even if he did win. I don't want a politician who is focused on a particular issue to the exclusion of other issues. I can't trust Bernie to do the right thing, I can only trust him to do what he thinks is right.

I want somebody who does not come into a situation with a bunch of preconceived notions about how solving that problem is best done by doing the thing they happen to be an expert in. That way they can actually identify the real problem and the real solution.

That's why Obama was 10x the presidential candidate that Clinton was. He hasn't always been on the progressive side of policy decisions, but by most accounts he has a deep-seated decency and overall consistency of beliefs. At the very least, Obama presents as someone who is sincere. Hillary Clinton has none of this.

Again, that strikes me as a totally personal judgement. I think Hillary presents pretty clearly that she's progressive and cares about improving America, but also worries a lot about how to actually get things done, and strategizes around being able to get things done in the short-term rather than hoping that things will magically change to favor her later.

I don't view her as insincere about values, just tactics. And characterizing that as "insincere" is, in my view, a dumb judgement. I spend my workdays coming up with ways to convince people to do things that I think need to be done even if it means a lot of compromise and positioning. It's called soft skills. I am not unsympathetic to a candidate that believes that soft skills are important!

God, I wish we could have a third term of Obama. I prefer Bernie's policies by far but Obama has been relatively effective at getting things done, given this Congress.

Sure, I wouldn't mind a third Obama term either. Frankly, I would prefer a Democrat who was more dovish than Hillary but equally competent on domestic affairs. Unfortunately one doesn't seem to exist.

 

[nillah]

Bernie Sanders 1988 interview, quite interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMIA46oV6U