The whole point of "national socialism"/NatSoc/Nazism is that it's meant to be a system that overcomes the class struggle inherent in capitalism and socialism through class collaboration for the good of the volk. Not all Neo Nazis are Neo Nazis solely because they believe in white supremacy; there are plenty of white supremacist groups out there (like the KKK) that don't have an economic component. But Nazism passes itself off as a legitimate "Third Position" strategy based on the fact that it has a political and economic program.
"I Hate Donald Trump, but he might get my vote" Washington Post(Opinion)
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The whole point of "national socialism"/NatSoc/Nazism is that it's meant to be a system that overcomes the class struggle inherent in capitalism and socialism through class collaboration for the good of the volk. Not all Neo Nazis are Neo Nazis solely because they believe in white supremacy; there are plenty of white supremacist groups out there (like the KKK) that don't have an economic component. But Nazism passes itself off as a legitimate "Third Position" strategy based on the fact that it has a political and economic program.
You can just not vote, that's you're right
Or you can write in someone else. You don't have to vote for either Clinton or Trump.
Exactly, they've shifted the conversation away from their views (and Trump's views) and turned it into a conversation about their right to have said views. And when challenged on them, their only defence is "free speech!"
He clearly views minorities as inferior to him.
He's advocating an immigration ban on people of a certain religious group, and supports increasing surveillance activities on said religious group.
He believes that if your parents are from another country, you're not really an American. Of course that doesn't count if your parents are white immigrants like himself and the majority of his children.
He believes that non-whites are the root of the problem.
This. For all of the talk of being open-minded and accepting, a lot of people on the left don't seem to have even a basic sense of empathy. To say that voting for a bigot automatically makes you a bigot makes you the same kind of one-issue voter that will vote for Trump because of abortion or gun rights. Different voters are going to have different priorities, and it doesn't mean they don't care about the other issue. You have one vote and you can't express your positions on all issues with it. You have to prioritize some things over others, and to say that race is the only valid issue is narrow-minded.
People love to think "Free Speech" means "Free from challenge"
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Oh yes, Trump loves the Mexicans!
"They are rapist, I'm sure some of them are good people"
"He's Mexican, he's biased, he can't be the judge for my case"
He only posts dozens of retweets from people who just so happen to follow white supremacist groups or are outright from white supremacist groups.
You have a historical amount of cognitive dissidence, someone call guinness
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm sorry, but as I said, Trump is not Romney and Trump is not McCain. Trump is not another regular conservative candidate. This is not just the normal dogwhistle racism, this is a candidate who's platform is founded on and fueled by hate
"D.) None of the above" isn't an option in the American presidential electoral process. Electors can't say, "I vote for no one," in the Electoral College system.
The options are as zethren laid out.
What do sheriffs have to do with this?
Great post, basically how I feel. In the past I've posted in defense of Trump and his supporters (until I felt he started going to far), simply because I cant relate to the broad generalization gaf is willing to paint about every Trump supporter, yet will flip out if generalizations are made about other potential groups of people.
I voted Bernie and I will vote Hillary, but I will not dog people out who disagree with me. Yes there is a voting block of Trump supporters who racist, but there other voting blocks within his ranks. Various single issue voters, people who hate Hillary, people who only know him for his tv show, etc.
I live in NH and I've spoke to a few Trump supporters. I can tell you from my experience the common thread I find is that many in the group are grossly misinformed or know very little at all and simply parrot what they hear and give blind support based on what others within their circles are doing and saying.
This is the big issue. The folks barley know shit and are going to vote for this guy. Not because they are racist but because they just dont know much or and not inclined enough to know more.Its pretty damn dangerous.Its why I make sure to try and share actual facts when possible, but to do so I cant just offend them, call them racists or close my self off from understanding were they are coming from.
Regarding the single issue voters, here most of them are highly emotional due to the economic and job situation and want someone or something to blame. Here in NH most dont blame Mexicans, etc but they are tense about outsourcing. This is state that was heavy on factories for many years, the majority of which have shut down and been sent overseas. We still have factories and they employ a large block of the locals in various towns, but I'm sure these folks are worried.
Dont get me wrong, there are racists here, but they fall in both political camps (obviously more in Trumps). These folks simply have little exposure to being around minorities, and odds are have spent very little time outside of the state. Their representation of minorities is based on what the media feeds them.
I personally feel sorry for these folks more than anger. Their map of the world is small and rigid.They get really uneasy when even small things chip away at that map. Their brain (any brain really) tries to find reasons why, and spits excuse and idea after idea till one sticks.
I'm not saying folks need to be let off the hook, but some are way to quick to burn people at the stake.
Palette Swap
Member
To be fair, he's not equal to neonazis.
Your average swastika tattooed chicken fucking violent idiot couldn't have afforded this:
The "civil liberties end when an attack on our safety begins" framing is incredible.
Your average swastika tattooed chicken fucking violent idiot couldn't have afforded this:
The "civil liberties end when an attack on our safety begins" framing is incredible.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Lol fucking garbage. Step 1 is asking is this candidate a racist/bigot that is ultimately going to hurt minorities? If the answer is yes, and you still vote for that person, you are basically the same thing. What empathy should a Muslim have towards someone voting for trump? Fucking hilarious
krameriffic
Member
"Fuck you, I got mine, and I think I'll get to keep it better under Drumpf."
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Quoted for truth. What's the point in making this distinction? "I'm not racist, I'm just voting for one." Okay, still makes you a shitty person.
There's a very real chance that Trump would deport millions of people if elected. A bill issuing a full repeal of the ACA went to the president's desk, and only Obama's veto let 20 million people continue to have health care.
Voting for Trump is straight-up immoral. And I certainly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion; why don't you? Because you clearly don't approve of everyone here saying that Trump supporters are terrible people. Why are you shouting down their beliefs?
biggersmaller
Banned
I know people like the WaPo author who hate Hillary enough to "stomach" Trump. They are not racist, however I told them to not be surprised when they are counted as one for supporting the rhetoric Trump candidly makes every week. And yes, I will "look" at them in a slightly new light. They deserve it. He really is that bad of a candidate.
Funny that people only want this empathy to flow one way. Toward the racist, cause poor racist they are the opressed class
I don't understand it if you feel that strongly and at odds, why not vote for Johnson or Stein or stay home? Why is Trump the only other opition.?
Same logic could be applie to Clinton in being a corrupt politiician. There's got to be a reason for that too right
biggersmaller
Banned
Because a vote for Trump is the only way to stop Hillary.
7DollarHagane
Banned
His just sounds to me like "I don't have to treat people I disagree with as humans as long as I can label them racist"
All these attitudes do is entrench both sides and escalate the meaningless conflict and nothing ever improves. It's the same attitudes and conflict that caused the brexit vote and has caused trump to have any popularity at all so far.
Even if he loses this time these attitudes and labeling will reinforce that group in their thinking and next time a even more extreme candidate gets elected. What you think is shame and exposure is meaningless to them. Shame doesn't make people change. It never has.
This was the story where it was revealed that the accused were innocent, right? And after the fact, Trump still believed they did it.
Big Baybee
Member
Yea, except the whole no receipts thing.
Just because I knowingly voted and enabled a known racist doesn't mean I'm racist!
Just because I told him to rob the bank and gave him the tools to do it doesn't mean I am responsible!
If you knowingly vote for a known racist, you are enabling that person and by proxy you should, and you definitely shall, hitherto be labeled as racist yourself.
Just because I told him to rob the bank and gave him the tools to do it doesn't mean I am responsible!
If you knowingly vote for a known racist, you are enabling that person and by proxy you should, and you definitely shall, hitherto be labeled as racist yourself.
Yeah, 20 years of GOP smear and a suitcase full of her husband's scandals weighing her down before she was even elected NY senator. Are you trying to say Trump HASN'T built his campaign on racism?
Because voting Stein and Johnson does not equal Keeping Hillary out of the white house.
I know by voting Johnson I'm essentially throwing away my vote. But you can never take your right to vote for granted.
No, I think we completely understand how easy it is for people to ignore blatant race issues that don't directly affect them. That's the problem.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
That thread was really something. The reveal near the end that the image was taken from /pol/ was just delicious.
But if you don't see that issue as the most important issue, does that really matter? It can be hard to see on the left because we don't have that kind of split right now, but just imagine this: Next cycle we get a far-left Bernie-like candidate, someone who wants to solve income inequality, enact a basic guaranteed income and universal healthcare and a bunch of stuff like that. He's already won the primary. But he's a racist, he goes on rants about how the Mexicans are the tools of the corporations trying to keep wages down and can't be allowed in the country. And on the other side you have a pro-business establishment Republican, the kind that argues that the GOP shouldn't be pissing off Hispanics. But he wants deep tax cuts for the rich, he wants to undo Obamacare, remove the social safety nets, ban all abortions, increase the military, and just throw in any other GOP policies that you hate that aren't directly race-related.
If the election were between those two candidates, would anyone who voted the Bernie-like be a bigot?
TBH, they aren't being called bigots/racists for not supporting Hillary. They are being called bigots/racists for supporting a ... bigot/racist (right or wrong there's guilt by association).
I don't think people who hate Hillary and vote third party (i.e. Stein) or don't vote get labeled bigots/racists like the people who would vote Trump do. They will have people tell them that the vote is "wasted" or as good as a vote for Trump or that there is more to the vote than just the presidency, but I don't think I've ever seen a supporter of anyone other than Trump actually get labelled as a bigot/racist for going third party/not voting.
I guess you can value "hard work" when you were able to literally walk into a place, ask for a job, and get it fairly quickly with a decent wage. Now those same people aren't retiring and it's s slog to try and find a job for some.
BlastProcessing
Member
Everyone is also perfectly entitled to brush their teeth with their own shit every night, but that doesn't bar us from questioning their judgement. I won't stop anyone from voting for Trump, that is obviously their right, but I sure as hell will judge them for it.
Our actions do define us as people. And voting for someone who is literally dusting off an old Pro-Nazi slogan (America First) absolutely plays a part in defining who you are.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Really hate this way of thought. It's really just a long-winded way of saying, "I think America should be for straight white men and straight white men only."
The bygone era was only good for you because you were a straight white man with all of the opportunities.
So, yeah, this guy doesn't hate Donald Trump. He actually sympathizes with him. He probably just doesn't like how unapologetic Donald Trump is with his bigotry and hatred, because this writer wants to be an inconsiderate racist and sexist asshole while not having to actually cope with being one or being accused of being one.
Palette Swap
Member
It's actually a strong motivator to change behaviors.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but your aphorism is simply not true.
It is. He basically bought full page ad space to call for the death of five (minority) teenagers who had been bullied into confessing by a zealous police force. For a very long time he's been using his money and power to make the disenfranchised more disenfranchised.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...k-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york
Yes.
I wouldn't vote for President, just down ticket and hope a democratic Senate is enough to keep whoever won in check. Also I'd unregister as a Democrat because fuck any party that lets trash get that far.
Of course that's only true in an academic sense since he has no realistic chance of winning.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Um, yeah. You have the choice not to vote for either and just do the downticket instead.
Not an american, btw, so I might be grossly misinformed.
I usually are very strongly on the "don't judge people by who they vote for" camp, but Trump does seem a special case.
He is a full blown racist and bigot that you can't even say what he is for or against, but everything with him is this murky weird nod or "something is happening". The only certain thing about him is that he hates mexicans and he hates muslims.
If you cast a presidential vote for someone who is blatantly incompetent and uncertain of what his own plataform is, then it is because there is something about that person's world view that you generally agree. In the case of most republicans, that "something" is usually tied to either economic and/or religious conservatism with a faint smell of racism (the odor does seem to grow when you voting for senators and below, but racism usually isn't the flag of the presidential race).
In the case of Trump, that worldview is racism. I don't think there's two ways about it. The best you can say is that you tolerate his racism because maybe you might somehow agree with his economic policies whatever they actually are and isn't that despicable enough for me to lose respect for you as a person?
I kind of feel bad of the time when I was a teenager and used to compare Bush to Hitler because now there is an actual very good comparison to Hitler to be done, but that's an rhetoric that got stale from overuse.
I usually are very strongly on the "don't judge people by who they vote for" camp, but Trump does seem a special case.
He is a full blown racist and bigot that you can't even say what he is for or against, but everything with him is this murky weird nod or "something is happening". The only certain thing about him is that he hates mexicans and he hates muslims.
If you cast a presidential vote for someone who is blatantly incompetent and uncertain of what his own plataform is, then it is because there is something about that person's world view that you generally agree. In the case of most republicans, that "something" is usually tied to either economic and/or religious conservatism with a faint smell of racism (the odor does seem to grow when you voting for senators and below, but racism usually isn't the flag of the presidential race).
In the case of Trump, that worldview is racism. I don't think there's two ways about it. The best you can say is that you tolerate his racism because maybe you might somehow agree with his economic policies whatever they actually are and isn't that despicable enough for me to lose respect for you as a person?
I kind of feel bad of the time when I was a teenager and used to compare Bush to Hitler because now there is an actual very good comparison to Hitler to be done, but that's an rhetoric that got stale from overuse.
So voting for the guy makes you a bigot, but doing nothing and burying you head in the sand is just fine? If it's such an evil to you, why aren't you doing something to stop it?
sturgboski
Member
I feel like this author and the people in his age group in this same camp are the same people who voted for the Brexit, you know, the "I want to go back to a simpler, all white time and who gives a fuck what the ramifications are because I will be dead and future generations can figure it out."
Or don't by not voting for him and voting for someone else.
He hasn't built it on racism. If he really had he wouldn't have gotten this far. This is why people equating trump to a nazi is merely screaming at clouds cuz they aren't even close to understanding what's really going on
He has built it on tackling issues some Americans are passionate about: immigrants taking jobs, terrorism, America looking weak in the eyes of the world, all the typical republican points. And he's taking a "by any means necessary" stance, which when compared to a typical politician, resonates with people that think nothing can be done in Washington with current status quo (note: this type of thinking also resonates with Bernie supporters and creates the overlap). And the people that vote for him focus on this, and categorize anything he says that people don't like as proof he is anti establishment and will be able to get things done because he doesn't give a shit and isn't politically correct
Literally the first thing trump ever said in his first debate was that the country is too politically correct. That's his platform. Make America great again. Do what it takes. Even if it makes people feel bad. Because it will get them jobs and security and a great America. His support of water boarding, torture, banning immigration, the wall... Everything fits with the do whatever it takes mantra. Is he connected to sleazeball finances that allow him to make money off of failures? Is he connected to shady business ventures like trump university? Excellent, hats the kind of shady approach we need to get things done in Washington. Do what it takes
Has he said racist shit? Yes. Will bigots flock to him? Yes. But it's not like the racism is what is giving him broad appeal, or else it would be a smaller movement like the tea party in general. He is capitalizing on the idea that nothing gets done in Washington because everyone has to go through political red tape to do anything, and that he will proudly break through it
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Same. PoliGAF asks this question a lot. If 2020 is Kanye vs Romney, I'm voting Romney all the way. I don't compromise with idiots, bigots, nutjobs, etc... Country over party.
He is doing something? He just said he'd vote to maintain Congress as a reasonable legislative body as a check on either candidate in that scenario.
Do you think the Presidency is the only elected office that matters? Because it's not, at all. This is a terrible part of the election that I've learned about the modern left; they only care about the damn White House and not any other races.
edit:
Your only argument is basically that you don't believe that there are that many racists in the country (hence your "If he was basing it on racism, he'd be doing worse" repetition). You sweet summer child, you should head down here to Mississippi sometime. Racists are a huge chunk of this country. As a nation, we're built on the backs of other races, and that still holds today.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Yes, there is. It's because she's been an heir apparent for a couple decades and conservative media has been in full attack mode in anticipation the whole time.
Longer, actually... I know several Hillary haters whose main stated reason for hating her is a hatchet job done on Bill on VHS in the mid-90s that even its distributor disavowed.
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