andythinkpad
Member
So you are saying you are so used to the vindictiveness you don't see it anymore. Plus those 2 athletes didn't say anything. They didn't lie.
And you admit rich and famous get different treatments. Gross.
Ryan Lochte, 32 yo drunk "kid", pees in public, tried to bribe a dude, guns(?!?)
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So you are saying you are so used to the vindictiveness you don't see it anymore. Plus those 2 athletes didn't say anything. They didn't lie.
And you admit rich and famous get different treatments. Gross.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Seriously? You really think that if four Brazilians claimed that someone dressed as a cop robbed them at gunpoint in NYC, made inconsistent statements, and then tried to leave the country, it would be fine? This is a criminal case that could lead to a felony prosecution and these statements would be part of that. You sound surprised that other countries have legal systems.
There is no such a thing as nobody asked for. The judge can open investigations if he or she has enough evidence or suspicion.
Actually that's exactly what would happen, they would be asked to leave and their visa revoked.
Roland_Gunner
Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_witness
These other swimmers were present at what supposedly was a violent crime. They need to be interviewed by the both the prosecution and defense, if a charge is made.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Yes, it would be fine because the NYPD never would have started an investigation unless these Brazilians filed an actual police report and requested the help of the police.
Right, again, I'm comparing it to our system and explaining why people think it looks bad.
We think this is an incredibly bad look as well, and the whole thing is currently under judicial review as the Wikipedia article points out. And either way, "“a criminal proceeding” from the material witness statute includes both trials (uncontroversially) and grand jury investigations." This thing is nowhere near that point.
Armed robbery is a serious crime, and it's one where the police don't need anyone to press charges before investigating.
Luschient
Member
And this is where Brazil is really fucking up. Despite all the talk of dirty water, etc., there's been some amazing shots of Rio during these games and places where it would look great to visit.
Nobody is not going to go somewhere because a few guys got robbed, that can and does happen in any city on earth. But when the country is pulling people off planes and detaining them for embellishing a story or lying....that's what's going to make people think twice before taking a trip to that county and spending money there.
I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is: this is not political neither personal, they do it to Brazilians too. If you asked me if the law is stupid, I'll agree with you.
That's not surprising, rich and famous americans get different treatments too.
andythinkpad
Member
The evidence is the "robber" didn't take their phones.
Hey what happened to the british athlete who was robbed in gun point 2 days later? What happened to the Russia diplomat who killed a robber 2 weeks ago and turned out not really a diplomat? Nope those real crimes are too hard to solve. It's much easier to get a confession out of those swimmers since they were lying (nevermind that you have no evidence whatsoever to prove Lochte was lying unless you beat the confession out of his colleagues)
FFS, Japan has an almost 100% conviction rate for foreigners as they pretty much deny 'em every right, even the right to have a lawyer and it has NEVER created a problem for tourism. Stop being so goddamn thick, they were not taken off plane by a whim. They had a judicial order summoning them for a statement and tried to flee. They should have been detained when crossing the first passport check.
The evidence was the many contradictions found by the judge.
The evidence was the many contradictions found by the judge.
Calamari41
41 > 38
As someone who has had to file police reports before, and whose neighbor told cops that she didn't want to press charges against the guy they caught breaking into her house, I can tell you that the cops (for certain crimes) won't investigate and won't arrest someone if you don't file a report or don't press charges. It's to keep the departments from getting overwhelmed with wild goose chases.
LyleLanley
Banned
Why the hell would they lie about this?
So let me see if I can get the timeline straight here:
I think it's a bit ridiculous to initiate all of this procedural power over what amounts to a relatively harmless lie. If you are so worried about saving face, just have some Brazilian spokesperson cast doubt on the tale in the media and maybe leak what you think is the true story. Now you are just bringing a lot more unwanted attention on your justice system.
- Lochte and his bros are out partying late Sat night and return home in the early morning hours on Sun.
- Soon after, stories begin circulating in the media, via off-the-record sources, that Lochte and his bros were robbed at gunpoint. An IOC spokeperson denies the reports, calling them "absolutely not true".
- Later that day, Lochte goes on-the-record with the media with his account of what happened.
- Because of all the media hubbub, law enforcement then becomes involved. The Brazilian Tourist Police, the FBI, US State Dept and USOC Security team interview Lochte about the incident. At this point, no official police report has been filed.
- On Monday, Lochte leaves Rio on his regularly scheduled flight home. The three other swimmers are still in Rio.
- Either late Tues or early Weds, a Brazilian judge issues a seizure warrant for Lochte and his bros passports, to prevent them from leaving Brazil. The reasoning for this is inconsistencies in their stories and surveillance video after the alleged incident showing the four looking calm and relaxed.
- Police arrive at the Olympic Village on Weds morning to seize the passports but the four swimmers are not there. They head to the airport where they are able to pull two of them off the plane and seize their passports. Lochte, of course, is already back in the US. The fourth swimmer's whereabouts have not been reported.
I think it's a bit ridiculous to initiate all of this procedural power over what amounts to a relatively harmless lie. If you are so worried about saving face, just have some Brazilian spokesperson cast doubt on the tale in the media and maybe leak what you think is the true story. Now you are just bringing a lot more unwanted attention on your justice system.
If not serious it happens all the time. Rape investigations or domestic abuse cases are prime examples. If the victim wants nothing to do with the investigation then the prosecutor will not pursue charges
Tomasoares
Member
This is how things works here on Brazil. You may not like it, but it is the way it is established here. If I go to other country like... france, I can't expect things to be the same as it is in Brazil.
I'm not saying that I agree with what is happening, honestly I haven't an opinion about it yet, but unfortunaly the goverment here can interfer a lot in the citzens and tourist lives.
I'm not saying that I agree with what is happening, honestly I haven't an opinion about it yet, but unfortunaly the goverment here can interfer a lot in the citzens and tourist lives.
If someone stated that they were robbed by people posing as New York cops, the police might investigate it but they would not start with dragging people off planes. The cops would likely request a meeting to gather information in the hopes that those who are impersonating a policeman could be caught.
BUT the person has the right to remain silent and if that person never actually lodges an official complaint, the cops have no right to their statements or movements.
If the person however made a direct complaint regarding a specific person, he opens himself to slander charges but (bringing it back to this case) that didn't happen.
Moving the events of this case into the US, what likely would have happened would be a request for an interview with the victims. If refused, the entire thing would have been ignored. If granted, they'd be invited to a location with a translator/representative/lawyer (if they want) and their statement taken...at no point would their fucking passport be withheld over something like this. LOL
Calamari41
41 > 38
Exactly. Basically, for an event like this, your punishment for not cooperating with the investigating officers is that your case doesn't get solved and the muggers get away with your stuff.
So don't go to Brazil? Thanks got it.
It is not like this. This is very uncommon actually.
Your neighbor is not the same as an athlete at a major event being held in a country. Does the FBI usually need to wait for civilians to press charges before investigating major national security incidents?
Why the hell would they lie about this?
Yeah, unless I'm missing something here, I'm confused about why they made up the robbery story in the first place.
gutshot said:
Cover up what, though? That they were hooking up with other girls in Rio? How is "I was robbed at gunpoint by men dressed as police officers" a cover story for cheating? :lol
Ganzlinger
Member
That's actually obligatory for the authorities, once you make the complaint. Brazilian law doesn't allow the police or the prosecutors to give up on criminal cases that involve violence, like robbery. It's supposed to protect the victim against public inefficiency.
layzie1989
Member
So the judge thought Lochte being calm on the video was suspicious? He obviously has never heard or seen Ryan Lochte before... I can't say I was surprised when the breaking news notification "Lochte changes story about robbery" came up, but I do hope the other swimmers get out of the country okay.
Tomasoares
Member
If you feel that this is something that bother you, there's no reason to come. It is the same for people that doesn't want to visit Venezuela because of crime, government, etc.
Why the hell would they lie about this?
Now THAT is something to pull someone off of a plane for. That makes much more sense than "They didn't look distraught enough". No need to call them druggies and out whoring, they got drunk and caused some property damage.
So,
they have been detained for suspicion of false allegation of crime (Article 340 of the Brazilian Criminal Code). The suspicion led to the application of the principle of fumis boni iuris, meaning that the measure of confiscating their passports - even if problematic - could lead to the case being solved.
The investigation was solicited by the Public Attorney of Rio de Janeiro and conveyed by a special jurisdiction created for the Olympics.
That's it. I've spoken with some friends from the police and Justice and they told me that if everything is ok, they'll let the swimmers go later today.
they have been detained for suspicion of false allegation of crime (Article 340 of the Brazilian Criminal Code). The suspicion led to the application of the principle of fumis boni iuris, meaning that the measure of confiscating their passports - even if problematic - could lead to the case being solved.
The investigation was solicited by the Public Attorney of Rio de Janeiro and conveyed by a special jurisdiction created for the Olympics.
That's it. I've spoken with some friends from the police and Justice and they told me that if everything is ok, they'll let the swimmers go later today.
Yes, after they had served whatever punishment they had been assigned, they would be asked to leave.
Zombie James
Banned
Why the hell would they lie about this?
To make themselves look macho as opposed to "we got our asses kicked by security guards"?
Abilidebob
Member
If that's something that makes you don't want to go to Brazil that's fine. Just as I don't really want to go the US right now, with how its police force loves to systematically kill minorities there.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Here, she is. If Kobe Bryant were robbed outside of Staples Center and told the police not to worry about it, they wouldn't investigate either. And they certainly wouldn't detain him and his teammates.
Major national security incidents (I assume you mean terrorist attacks) are not the kind of crime we're talking about here.
hunchback
Member
Brazil just can't get out of its own way. The smartest thing is to just drop it and focus on trying to make the rest of the Olympics great.
Bad press is bad press. Brazil needs all of the positive stories it can get out of this Olympics. Being right or proving a swimmer lied isn't worth it.
Why the hell would they lie about this?
Brazilian sources? Did this guy even see the video or is he simply regurgitating something somebody said? Why not just release the video and be done with it?
By 'fake police officers', I'm sure that something would be done.
More accurately:
Don't go to Brazil as a high-profile representative of the US and then lie about getting robbed at gun-point, creating an international scandal.
Should be easy.
We won't see that video unless tmz has their fingers in Brazil lol.
ldcommando
Banned
Also because it is harder to get mad at someone that just had a gun pointed to his head. They made up the story to look like victims and judging by this thread, worked like a charm.
Calamari41
41 > 38
They'd probably search the area, but again, they wouldn't go back and detain the Lakers when their search found no evidence of fake officers or a mugging.
They would also probably warn the public to be aware of fake police officers and to ask for credentials or something like that.
LyleLanley
Banned
But if they didn't make up this story no one would have been asking any questions about what happened that night.
Sammy Samusu
Member
They thought they were superior.
Poor them.
They will pay the price now.
Poor them.
They will pay the price now.
Ganzlinger
Member
Apparently.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Thanks for this information. I really have been trying to genuinely find out what the protocol is down there, if you read my posts from last night you'll see that that's the case. I want to reiterate, since people keep commenting on it, that I'm not trying to argue that Brazil's laws say one thing or another. All I've been trying to do is explain why some Americans are confused and surprised by the actions of the police.
ldcommando
Banned
Agreed,that is the weird part. Maybe a SO or a family member asked something and they told the story and then somehow it ended up in the media.
Calamari41
41 > 38
The AP is saying that the original telling of the story was from Lochte to his mother. But he also told her that they were out "partying," so it doesn't seem like he would make this up as an excuse for why he was out so late. Hopefully Brazil releases this gas station video, and hopefully we get the real story some day.
I love how a tweet with no video is enough to prove someone is lying. LOL
Lochte may yet be proven a liar but a tweet is not enough.
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