Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

McSpidey said:
I tried this technique and found it caused heavy banding in Deus Ex when in HDR mode so reverted it. Not sure it's a good fit for games yet, but that was on the OG PS4 - not a pro.
Click to expand...
Ah, but you're not suppose to with HDR because this assumes you're tracking linear gamma, which PQ EOTF 2084 isn't. It's for SDR purposes.
 
Aztechnology said:
I don't disagree. I was mainly wanting to point that out as a counter reaction too many people saying that the set was "bottom of the barrel" . It's still a substantial upgrade for many people and is in a great price range for a lot of consumers.
Click to expand...

Oh, I absolutely agree. I just criticized it in my post when I actually meant to say it was very decent for its price :)
 
Geneijin said:
Trust me when I say you don't want to go looking for ABL. It's way more aggressive than you'd expect, and it's easily one of my biggest complaints with my OLED55C6P that I never thought would be an issue. And I chose to own one ultimately because of its image quality, sacrificing performance (input lag). It leads to grayed whites or dimmed whites when it happens no matter how high or low you calibrate your nits (your peak brightness at 100% white), and it effectively cuts the contrast ratio of bright scenes where it shouldn't lose to LEDs like the Sony XBR49X800D (an IPS panel) in the same scene when both are calibrated at the same luminance levels. There are some bright scenes where I just prefer viewing on an LED because ABL doesn't exist as a permanent feature (unless you access the service menu, which I don't want to brick my TV over) and as a form of intrusive image processing.


It's actually worse the way LG does it because it's probably one of the reasons why we still don't have HDR in Game mode. The way Samsung and Sony implement it, it'll automatically switch to the correct color gamut and default to ST. 2084 when it detects an HDR signal within the same video mode. There's also the fact they keep their TV setting labels consistent throughout their various video modes. For example, why the hell would LG lock away a color temperature slider in Game mode and not make it available in ISF Expert? Why doesn't LG have a finer gamma point slider that acts like Sony's? Why is Gamma in Game mode renamed Low, Medium, High 1, and High 2 when it's just 1.9, 2.2. 2.4 and BT. 1886 in any other video mode, which goes back to the mislabeling in HDR mode. Game mode also locks the Wide (Rec. 2020) Color Gamut, so you have oversaturated colors for SDR (with a nice grayscale admittedly when you tone down the color and color temperature). It's a mess really.
Click to expand...

So do you feel the KS8000 is the better choice if this sort of thing is bothersome?
 
SOLDIER said:
So do you feel the KS8000 is the better choice if this sort of thing is bothersome?
Click to expand...
Yes. Even if you calibrate everything to Rec. 709 standards, unless you disable the ABL, you're gonna run into the same problem whether or not it's professionally calibrated. It's what you're going through like me except I can accept the trade-off because of the superior blacks. If I never owned the X800D for a good month, I wouldn't notice nearly as much. I calibrated both the Sony and LG to 103 nits for nighttime viewing.
 
Geneijin said:
Yes. Even if you calibrate everything to Rec. 709 standards, unless you disable the ABL, you're gonna run into the same problem whether or not it's professionally calibrated. It's what you're going through like me except I can accept the trade-off because of the superior blacks. If I never owned the X800D for a good month, I wouldn't notice nearly as much. I calibrated both the Sony and LG to 103 nits for nighttime viewing.
Click to expand...

Superior blacks sound fine...superior anything sounds fine too.

But if that's the only trade-off, how would you measure the colors, picture quality, 4K upscale and everything else with the KS8000 compared to the OLED? I've heard various opinions from "there's negligible difference" to "OLED is far and away better looking", though I wonder if the latter metric is purely because of the blacks.
 
Geneijin said:
Ah, but you're not suppose to with HDR because this assumes you're tracking linear gamma, which PQ EOTF 2084 isn't. It's for SDR purposes.
Click to expand...

Yep, just sharing since at the time I was trying to fix the black crush in HDR games and some UHD HDR movies with improper mastering.
 
SOLDIER said:
Superior blacks sound fine...superior anything sounds fine too.

But if that's the only trade-off, how would you measure the colors, picture quality, 4K upscale and everything else with the KS8000 compared to the OLED? I've heard various opinions from "there's negligible difference" to "OLED is far and away better looking", though I wonder if the latter metric is purely because of the blacks.
Click to expand...
Depends. In an ideal world where everyone adheres to the Rec. 709 standard for SDR content and doesn't adjust their TV settings according to preference, you don't always have to assume people aren't seeing the same picture. For example, how do you know if people are looking at the same picture if one person prefers a cooler color temperature than a warmer one? It's one of the reasons why these standards exist, so there's a common reference point. Even if we both hire an ISF-certified calibrator to calibrate a Samsung KS8000 or LG OLED55E6P in our respective rooms to the same standard (Rec. 709), the differences between the two sets might be significant for me but not you or vice versa. But it's important that we have that commonality in place, so we know we're talking about the same picture. And when you start doing things like that, you'll notice certain things like how many people who prefer a cooler color temperature don't professionally calibrate their TVs. Because they don't do this, I have an idea of what a cooler temperature looks like since I'm accustomed to a warmer one like Warm2 or 6500K. And when I compare HD to UHD HDR, I notice the jump in saturation between SDR and HDR is more pronounce and much bigger when the color temperature the content is warmer than cooler. Except the difference is I'm comparing color accuracy with known specifications than whatever a cooler image looks like. Like what's the best looking Cool color temperature? What does that level of saturation look like on a chromaticity diagram? How common is this level of saturation between different makers and their TVs? etc

If you're asking for my opinion, I think the significance between a KS8000 and OLED55C6P is large. It's more than the difference between black levels. It's the difference in display technology. The KS8000 has an edge-lit backlight, and it's inherently weaker than a full- array backlight when it comes to local dimming. Look at the Sony ZD9 at your local Best Buy if you want to see the best LED TV in the market this year, which features Full-Array Local Dimming (FALD). Because the OLED55C6P is just pixels in simplistic terms, you don't get the awful blooming found in edge-lit displays like the KS8000 and X800D where it's like zones nor the terrible light bleed found at the edges of the screen especially when viewing a dark scene at nighttime. It was so distracting for me on the X800D for the first month I owned one, it's one of the reasons why I immediately replaced it with an OLED55C6P (the Adorama deal on eBay for $1500 was the other reason). And when you don't have such issues like blooming, OLEDs offer some of the most cleanest images I've ever seen since owning a Panasonic Viera (plasma TV) because colors aren't blooming.

Edit: https://www.cnet.com/news/led-lcd-backlights-explained/

McSpidey said:
Yep, just sharing since at the time I was trying to fix the black crush in HDR games and some UHD HDR movies with improper mastering.
Click to expand...
Ah, gotcha. My bad.
 
Geneijin said:
Depends. In an ideal world where everyone adheres to the Rec. 709 standard for SDR content and doesn't adjust their TV settings according to preference, you don't always have to assume people aren't seeing the same picture. For example, how do you know if people are looking at the same picture if one person prefers a cooler color temperature than a warmer one? It's one of the reasons why these standards exist, so there's a common reference point. Even if we both hire an ISF-certified calibrator to calibrate a Samsung KS8000 or LG OLED55E6P in our respective rooms to the same standard (Rec. 709), the differences between the two sets might be significant for me but not you or vice versa. But it's important that we have that commonality in place, so we know we're talking about the same picture. And when you start doing things like that, you'll notice certain things like how many people who prefer a cooler color temperature don't professionally calibrate their TVs. Because they don't do this, I have an idea of what a cooler temperature looks like since I'm accustomed to a warmer one like Warm2 or 6500K. And when I compare HD to UHD HDR, I notice the jump in saturation between SDR and HDR is more pronounce and much bigger when the color temperature the content is warmer than cooler. Except the difference is I'm comparing color accuracy with known specifications than whatever a cooler image looks like. Like what's the best looking Cool color temperature? What does that level of saturation look like on a chromaticity diagram? How common is this level of saturation between different makers and their TVs? etc

If you're asking for my opinion, I think the significance between a KS8000 and OLED55C6P is large. It's more than the difference between black levels. It's the difference in display technology. The KS8000 has an edge-lit backlight, and it's inherently weaker than a full- array backlight when it comes to local dimming. Look at the Sony ZD9 at your local Best Buy if you want to see the best LED TV in the market this year, which features Full-Array Local Dimming (FALD). Because the OLED55C6P is just pixels in simplistic terms, you don't get the awful blooming found in edge-lit displays like the KS8000 and X800D where it's like zones nor the terrible light bleed found at the edges of the screen especially when viewing a dark scene at nighttime. It was so distracting for me on the X800D for the first month I owned one, it's one of the reasons why I immediately replaced it with an OLED55C6P (the Adorama deal on eBay for $1500 was the other reason). And when you don't have such issues like blooming, OLEDs offer some of the most cleanest images I've ever seen since owning a Panasonic Viera (plasma TV) because colors aren't blooming.

Edit: https://www.cnet.com/news/led-lcd-backlights-explained/


Ah, gotcha. My bad.
Click to expand...

Just for reference, is there an LED that you would definitively place above the KS8000 and the LG OLED? Just wondering what the cream of the crop are as 4K TVs go, in case that happens to also fall under an attractive price range.

Anyway, it's as you said: it all depends on the individual, their living conditions, etc. The complaints that get brought up don't affect me personally, like how the KS8000's picture distorts when viewed from an angle (I'm almost exclusively going to be watching it right in front of me) or how some colors might be too saturated (I'm used to the vibrancy and shine found in LEDs). That's why I'm still willing to try one out at home, because I want the perfect 4K TV that suits my needs.

Anyway, I managed to program my remote to access the service menu of the E6. Obviously I don't want to fart around with any settings I understand, but two options caught my eye: Dimness On/Off and Store Luminescence On/Off. Both sounded like they could address the auto dimming issue I was having.

Sadly, shutting both off did nothing to improve this, so that's that.
 
SOLDIER said:
Just for reference, is there an LED that you would definitively place above the KS8000 and the LG OLED? Just wondering what the cream of the crop are as 4K TVs go, in case that happens to also fall under an attractive price range.

Anyway, it's as you said: it all depends on the individual, their living conditions, etc. The complaints that get brought up don't affect me personally, like how the KS8000's picture distorts when viewed from an angle (I'm almost exclusively going to be watching it right in front of me) or how some colors might be too saturated (I'm used to the vibrancy and shine found in LEDs). That's why I'm still willing to try one out at home, because I want the perfect 4K TV that suits my needs.

Anyway, I managed to program my remote to access the service menu of the E6. Obviously I don't want to fart around with any settings I understand, but two options caught my eye: Dimness On/Off and Store Luminescence On/Off. Both sounded like they could address the auto dimming issue I was having.

Sadly, shutting both off did nothing to improve this, so that's that.
Click to expand...
If the price isn't an issue, the Sony ZD9 ($5000) absolutely. If you're asking about better alternatives at a comparable price to the KS8000, I don't have any others to suggest because I don't ever want to own an edge-lit display again, and I feel it's FALD or bust for LED TVs in terms of investment and future proofing.
 
Geneijin said:
If the price isn't an issue, the Sony ZD9 ($5000) absolutely. If you're asking about better alternatives at a comparable price to the KS8000, I don't have any others to suggest because I don't ever want to own an edge-lit display again, and I feel it's FALD or bust for LED TVs in terms of investment and future proofing.
Click to expand...

Yeesh. That's okay.

Spoke some more with a TV dude I really trust, and we're unanimous: the KS8000 should suit my needs, so I'll nab it from Best Buy once I get a chance.
 
SOLDIER said:
Yeesh. That's okay.

Spoke some more with a TV dude I really trust, and we're unanimous: the KS8000 should suit my needs, so I'll nab it from Best Buy once I get a chance.
Click to expand...
The KS8000 presents tremendous value, and it's honestly the most I'd ever pay for a edge-lit display again. You're not really going to get much better unless you pay a premium price like the Sony ZD9 essentially which is gonna be good for years while content is still mastered to DCI-P3 and 1,000-2,000 nits (ZD9 can hit 1800 nits) for HDR10. While there are barely a handful of qualified LED TVs this year for HDR10 if you're concerned with future proofing for the immediate future (3-5 years), you'll probably enjoy the KS8000 as it's one of them. At least you won't ever have to worry about ABL for one thing while you own one :lol
 
So guys I'm looking for a good soundar for my 40” TV set I got for my folks. I've heard good things about the Vizio 2.1 sound bars but I wanted to get some input. Not looking to spend a whole lot so a good deal is what I'm looking for orimarily.
 
SOLDIER said:
Just for reference, is there an LED that you would definitively place above the KS8000 and the LG OLED? Just wondering what the cream of the crop are as 4K TVs go, in case that happens to also fall under an attractive price range.

Anyway, it's as you said: it all depends on the individual, their living conditions, etc. The complaints that get brought up don't affect me personally, like how the KS8000's picture distorts when viewed from an angle (I'm almost exclusively going to be watching it right in front of me) or how some colors might be too saturated (I'm used to the vibrancy and shine found in LEDs). That's why I'm still willing to try one out at home, because I want the perfect 4K TV that suits my needs.

Anyway, I managed to program my remote to access the service menu of the E6. Obviously I don't want to fart around with any settings I understand, but two options caught my eye: Dimness On/Off and Store Luminescence On/Off. Both sounded like they could address the auto dimming issue I was having.

Sadly, shutting both off did nothing to improve this, so that's that.
Click to expand...

If I could disable the ABL then my b6 would be pretty much perfect. Disheartening to hear you're not finding much success as I've found both dimming methods to be asinine.

I did think about getting into that menu to disable the screen dimming on static images though. I've had it kick in in games before where there isn't much happening on screen - not cool.
 
PeterVenkman said:
If I could disable the ABL then my b6 would be pretty much perfect. Disheartening to hear you're not finding much success as I've found both dimming methods to be asinine.

I did think about getting into that menu to disable the screen dimming on static images though. I've had it kick in in games before where there isn't much happening on screen - not cool.
Click to expand...
I now only notice ABL when I open up the menu and the remaining half of the picture not covered by the menu gets brighter. It was a real problem when I first bought my E6 but I have gotten used to the picture, it really becomes something you don't think about after realizing the benefits, I can't tell you how many human pours I notice now, the detail on this's TV is world class.
 
I'm almost pulling the trigger on the Sammy KU6300. I have a 2012 FHD Plasma and the low brightness of the screen is an issue, along with the fact that it's too big for my room. I don't live in the US or the UK so prices here are absolutely ridiculous, the KS8000 is out of my budget unfortunately. 😢
 
Aztechnology said:
So guys I'm looking for a good soundar for my 40” TV set I got for my folks. I've heard good things about the Vizio 2.1 sound bars but I wanted to get some input. Not looking to spend a whole lot so a good deal is what I'm looking for orimarily.
Click to expand...

They're cheap but get the job done. Excellent budget soundbar / wireless sub combo.
 
KillGore said:
We're supposed to see 2017 OLED sets on CES right? Any rumors floating around? It's only a month or so away.
Click to expand...

Names are supposedly B7, C7, E7, G7 and W7 and will be available in 55 to 77 inches. The W is speculated to bei either a widescreen tv or a wallpaper tv as seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE4lmXzKbHQ

In an interview with BusinessKorea LG seems to have said that their new OLED tvs are built on a new hardware platform only LG is able to produce.

LGs 4K OLED Fernseher für 2017:

Ein­stei­ger-Serie B7 (no 3D, Sin­gle Tun­er)
OLED55B7D
OLED65B7D
Cur­ved Models (3D, Twin Tun­er)
OLED55C7D
OLED65C7D
Pre­mi­um Models (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved sound harman/kardon?)
OLED55E7V
OLED65E7V
Pre­mi­um Seg­ment (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved harman/kardon?)
OLED65G7V
OLED77G7V
Unknown Series (Wall­pa­per TV or Wide­screen OLED)
OLED65W7V
OLED77W7V

Sauce
 
SOLDIER said:
Superior blacks sound fine...superior anything sounds fine too.

But if that's the only trade-off, how would you measure the colors, picture quality, 4K upscale and everything else with the KS8000 compared to the OLED? I've heard various opinions from "there's negligible difference" to "OLED is far and away better looking", though I wonder if the latter metric is purely because of the blacks.
Click to expand...

Well....

Black is foundational to everything, so the colors are better on the OLED, the picture quality is better too.

Upscale I don't know, maybe the Samsung would be a tad better. This is basically highly fixable though by doing your upscale elsewhere.

If we're talking calibrated? The OLED trounces the shit out of the KS8000 and it isn't even close. OLED will destroy any edge-lit TV on the market.

My advice to you is get a good TV calibrated and get used to that. Learn to view your content as it was meant to be viewed, not some weird distorted thing.

That said, it's your TV, your anime and games, so do what you want. But honestly? You're asking a bunch of AV Nerds here and on AVS for help with something when you want something fundamentally different than we do. We want to accurately reproduce film, TV and game content at home. That's the goal.

If that's not your goal, you can (and should) spend way less on TVs and A/V tech. Getting it right is expensive. Getting it to preference isn't nearly as hard.
 
I watched the unboxing and setup guide video LG uploaded for their new Wallpaper OLED.

Yeah, nope. Way too complicated for me. :s
 
Not sure if this is the right topic or not, but I've got a question.

I've had the Samsung UE40ES6530 for a bit over 4 years now, but I'm still not sure if I actually have it set up in such a way that it'll give me the best quality. Considering I'm getting a PS4 Pro, I was wondering if someone has the same or a similar tv and can tell me what settings he / she uses.
 
PeterVenkman said:
If I could disable the ABL then my b6 would be pretty much perfect. Disheartening to hear you're not finding much success as I've found both dimming methods to be asinine.

I did think about getting into that menu to disable the screen dimming on static images though. I've had it kick in in games before where there isn't much happening on screen - not cool.
Click to expand...
Any more info on that last part? What's the option to disable the dimming called? Just ordered a C6, and I'm having it calibrated, so I'll ask him to disable it.
 
jstevenson said:
That said, it's your TV, your anime and games, so do what you want. But honestly? You're asking a bunch of AV Nerds here and on AVS for help with something when you want something fundamentally different than we do. We want to accurately reproduce film, TV and game content at home. That's the goal.
Click to expand...

Welp, I think this post has convinced me to wait for a bit to save up. If I'm going to drop some money, I want it right.
 
I got a bargain on a LG OLED B6 on Amazon this morning...a seller named BUYFULLHD had the B6 at $2599, but they had another item listed as a B6 "bundle" with a couple of HDMI cables and screen spray & cleaning cloth (whoopee!) but they had it at $2499. I pulled the trigger and placed my order right away, and now when I go to that page that I ordered from, I see they've changed the price to $2599.
 
So I got the LG 4K LED 43UH6030 and outside my one issue detailed in another thread...

It seems like there is no such thing as a clean 'Yellow'. No matter what settings I tamper with, all the yellows look well like dirty yellow. Other colors seem fine. I wonder if this has anything to do with the TV somehow not supporting 2160p - RGB?

I'm not sure why it doesn't support it but the PS4 claims it doesn't. Should be noted I'm using the VR Processor Box.
 
The Van Gogh documentary on Amazon Video, in a dark room, on a B6. ;)

l7ojQiN.jpg


36nbNh5.jpg


And other pictures from UHD HDR streaming:

DSC01294.jpg


GO9vs1V.jpg


edd5baA.jpg


1eQ5SRY.jpg
 
luffeN said:
Names are supposedly B7, C7, E7, G7 and W7 and will be available in 55 to 77 inches. The W is speculated to bei either a widescreen tv or a wallpaper tv as seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE4lmXzKbHQ

In an interview with BusinessKorea LG seems to have said that their new OLED tvs are built on a new hardware platform only LG is able to produce.

LGs 4K OLED Fernseher für 2017:

Ein­stei­ger-Serie B7 (no 3D, Sin­gle Tun­er)
OLED55B7D
OLED65B7D
Cur­ved Models (3D, Twin Tun­er)
OLED55C7D
OLED65C7D
Pre­mi­um Models (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved sound harman/kardon?)
OLED55E7V
OLED65E7V
Pre­mi­um Seg­ment (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved harman/kardon?)
OLED65G7V
OLED77G7V
Unknown Series (Wall­pa­per TV or Wide­screen OLED)
OLED65W7V
OLED77W7V

Sauce
Click to expand...
That wallpaper TV is bound to have uniformity issues out the ass.

The B7 better have the same input lag as the other models. I don't want a curve or a sound bar.
 
I'm really curious how they gonna price the B7 this time around. I don't want to wait another whole year for the price to come down to an appropriate ammount.
 
So in the three last days, I've ordered three TVs, lol...

Wednesday: Daily deal - LG B6 OLED for $1740.

Thursday: Cancelled the B6. Daily deal - LG C6 OLED for $2200.

Friday: Cancelled the C6. Daily deal - LG E6 OLED for $2315. In need of a soundbar anyways.
 
After going through a few different TVs, after my Panasonic plasma died, I am going with the 65in C6, it was a bit hard to get use to LED. Delivery driver is on thier way now!
 
julrik said:
So in the three last days, I've ordered three TVs, lol...

Wednesday: Daily deal - LG B6 OLED for $1740.

Thursday: Cancelled the B6. Daily deal - LG C6 OLED for $2200.

Friday: Cancelled the C6. Daily deal - LG E6 OLED for $2315. In need of a soundbar anyways.
Click to expand...

US prices depress me... 55" B6 goes for minimum 2400€ over here, when on sale. Usually its more like 2600€. E6 is far beyond that, too.
 
Devil said:
US prices depress me... 55" B6 goes for minimum 2400€ over here, when on sale. Usually its more like 2600€. E6 is far beyond that, too.
Click to expand...
Forgot to mention, I'm from Norway! I just put the prices in dollars on here. Never expected a deal of this magnitude at all!
 
julrik said:
Any more info on that last part? What's the option to disable the dimming called? Just ordered a C6, and I'm having it calibrated, so I'll ask him to disable it.
Click to expand...

Here's the thread on disabling it on AVS. Not sure if it's 100% safe or not as I haven't read it in awhile. Really wish that was available without a service remote - I should've asked the technician to do it for me when he was swapping my panel.

ABL is my real nemesis since I use my b6 as a monitor. It's a sin that every new tab and folder etc is a different brightness level.
 
luffeN said:
Names are supposedly B7, C7, E7, G7 and W7 and will be available in 55 to 77 inches. The W is speculated to bei either a widescreen tv or a wallpaper tv as seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE4lmXzKbHQ

In an interview with BusinessKorea LG seems to have said that their new OLED tvs are built on a new hardware platform only LG is able to produce.

LGs 4K OLED Fernseher für 2017:

Ein­stei­ger-Serie B7 (no 3D, Sin­gle Tun­er)
OLED55B7D
OLED65B7D
Cur­ved Models (3D, Twin Tun­er)
OLED55C7D
OLED65C7D
Pre­mi­um Models (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved sound harman/kardon?)
OLED55E7V
OLED65E7V
Pre­mi­um Seg­ment (3D, Twin Tun­er, improved harman/kardon?)
OLED65G7V
OLED77G7V
Unknown Series (Wall­pa­per TV or Wide­screen OLED)
OLED65W7V
OLED77W7V

Sauce
Click to expand...
Missed this post. Glad they're supposedly still going to have 3D capability. But once again, looks like I'll have to choose a curved model or a useless sound bar to get it.
 
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