Astral Dog
Member
The infamous FFXIII level
Wired: Please Dont Take Final Fantasy XVs Worst Level Away From Us
- Thread starter orthodoxy1095
- Start date
ScrapBrain
Member
I'm indifferent regarding patching it. I see what they were going for, but I have a love-hate relationship with Chapter 13...On the one hand, I was finally excited to get into the heart of the Empire and bring the fight to their doorstep, and you start running full-speed towards the endgame just to realize you're figuratively exhausting yourself trying to run through molasses. All this time, you had all the control in the open world, and could do whatever you wanted, in whatever order you pleased. Now, you've resolved to push ahead to the final confrontation, only to be shoved into tight, claustrophobic corridors, and the game slows to a crawl. Through all your trials, you are a plaything to this madman of a villain and you really have no control. You get separated, tossed about, and eventually you get frustrated and slightly annoyed, and you end up hating the villain for it, and you realize that without the rest of the party, your chances of overcoming these odds are slim at best.
When things finally get put back together again and you start marching forward, it feels like such a relief, and I feel like that was the intention here and I think it succeeds for better or worse. The thin plot threads being tugged in this chapter could use some work though, and the chapter itself runs a bit overlong, but I think the contextual story stuff is way more important to patch in. There were a few things that jumped out at you so suddenly and without buildup or explanation that were total head-scratchers and needed much more TLC. If anything, maybe buff the ring a tiny bit for that segment (or make Axemen less annoying and time consuming to kill).
When things finally get put back together again and you start marching forward, it feels like such a relief, and I feel like that was the intention here and I think it succeeds for better or worse. The thin plot threads being tugged in this chapter could use some work though, and the chapter itself runs a bit overlong, but I think the contextual story stuff is way more important to patch in. There were a few things that jumped out at you so suddenly and without buildup or explanation that were total head-scratchers and needed much more TLC. If anything, maybe buff the ring a tiny bit for that segment (or make Axemen less annoying and time consuming to kill).
brandonh83
Banned
Even if the team said it wasn't intentional I still wouldn't believe them.
It's bad. It's not fun. It removes every interesting part of the combat system and replaces it with a menial chote of a system. It makes no sense narratively. It shifts genres into horror because it can, and fails spectacularly at it.
It has literally no reason to exist, except for a example of the horribly non-playtested game design that encompasses all of Final Fantasy XV.
It has literally no reason to exist, except for a example of the horribly non-playtested game design that encompasses all of Final Fantasy XV.
Basically, lol.
Saying this should be grounds for your banning.
LordKasual
Banned
Huh????????
Death will instakill almost every Daemon there before they even have the chance to reach you...including the Iron Giants and especially those crazy bastards
If you get Alterna off EVERYTHING dies in Chapter 13
I had like 20 Ethers by that point since i never used them, i didn't hide from shit in that chapter. I was a shinigami in that bitch
brandonh83
Banned
I thought it was mostly fun and interesting, just too long-- a sentiment many seem to echo. It worked a lot for me story wise too which I'm going to go into more whenever I do my post mortem.
Hopefully it gets patched beforehand.
Hopefully it gets patched beforehand.
I mean, that's certainly an interesting way of looking at it. I don't particularly agree though.
It wasn't hard or anything, just a long boring trudge that wasn't fun in the slightest.
It wasn't hard or anything, just a long boring trudge that wasn't fun in the slightest.
I'm not sure most people will use 20 Ethers just to be able to Death the enemies with more health. Hardly a defence. 
DirgeExtinction
Member
Currently at chapter 9. I'm curious about this infamous chapter.
ElephantShell
Banned
I thought Chapter 13 would be worse going off what I've read on here. It's kind of boring, but that's basically it. Probably the worst part of the game but it doesn't lower my opinion on it.
DarknessTear
Banned
Am I the only one who used
and didn't have a problem with the chapter because of this?
holy instead of death
LordKasual
Banned
I mean, that's certainly an interesting way of looking at it. I don't particularly agree though.
It wasn't hard or anything, just a long boring trudge that wasn't fun in the slightest.
I'm not sure most people will use 20 Ethers just to be able to Death the enemies with more health. Hardly a defence.
I still have like, 15 of that same stack. It's not like MP doesn't regenerate? Doesn't Holy even GIVE you MP?
The point is that it's really hard to...like, legitimately struggle there?
Unless your strategy was to actually attempt to fight them by not ripping their souls away, in which case yeah Chapter 13 would be the worst thing ever?
Color me the wrong color, it can be enjoyed this way too i guess.
They gave me 3 options of murdering things, option x just didn't feel nearly as satisfying
and option z was like literally the coolest thing
Tritroid
Member
Bingo. People are exaggerating the hell out of it, giving people on here who haven't played it this sense of foreboding, which is just so laughable.
toastyToast
Member
This reminds me of people saying that Spec Ops: The Line was a derivative third person shooter on purpose.
They can do good level design, just look at Pitoss Ruins dungeon. So it weird that they created such a long and boring one for the main story.
Although I enjoyed it a lot when I first played through it, but maybe that's cause I was severely disappointed by the length of chapters 10-12 (combined they're still not as long as chapter 13).
Although I enjoyed it a lot when I first played through it, but maybe that's cause I was severely disappointed by the length of chapters 10-12 (combined they're still not as long as chapter 13).
Chapter 13 is the worst story segment of any Final Fantasy game yet. There is no two hour chunk of a Final Fantasy game that is mandatory that is this bad. There's some optional stuff that's pretty bad, some of the sequels and spin offs have pretty weak quality, but there's no mainline game that requires this level of bad design for that stretch of time.
I thought people were exaggerating it.
They weren't.
I thought people were exaggerating it.
They weren't.
the writer can feel free to pop the ff xv disc into any offline ps4 and experience those feelings anytime he wants. in the meantime i'd rather not have a shit level. but lets be honest there's no way they'll change it significantly enough. it'll just go from an hour long slog to a half hour slog.
Nah It is hot garbage
Better to be mentally prepared knowing you're going to step in poop than having a nasty surprise. These people with their sense of foreboding are blessed.
Neoleo2143
Member
Kid Icarus's Ch. 21 and Chapter 19 does this concept of an exhausting gauntlet a billion times better and it was in only one goddamn arena in the former.
No, it's really that bad. Square should be mortified they put the game out with Chapter 13 in that condition, and anything they can do to improve it should absolutely be done. This article is ludicrous. "It's shitty on purpose due to narrative choices"? "Being shitty at this point in the story makes thematic sense"? No, it's shitty because they ran out of time and rushed the whole second half out the door. Reminds me of people who read profound meaning into the "characters narrating sitting in a chair" stuff in Xenogears Disc 2. Sorry, they just ran out of money and had to get it done, it wasn't some deep creative choice.
Fix it. Make it good, if you can. I doubt it, but every little bit helps.
I've not seen anyone complain it's particularly hard or a struggle. As I mentioned before it just flat out isn't fun. It's a monotonous trek through a boring environment.
I mean you may enjoy using the ring. I didn't. I haven't used it once since that chapter, and I've done quite a lot of post game content.
You're a purist. I'm sure you don't fuck with the international editions.
brandonh83
Banned
It's not going to "fix" the chapter, like it or not the chapter is a creative vision. They're evaluating how they can make it more efficient to play through. I wish it were shorter, but that's about it. But who knows what changes may come.
encephalon
Member
On the low ranking enemies it took all of my MP to take out soldier-zombies with death and sometimes even that didn't work and I had to try again.
Movalpolos
Banned
This chapter almost made me quit the game.
I think they're overreacting considering all that is going to be patched is a slight buff to ring magic to make the encounters less obnoxious.
Also people are stupid if they didn't just use Alterna and clear entire rooms of anything. Don't use Death or Holy when you have an instant-kill AOE, ya dinguses.
Also people are stupid if they didn't just use Alterna and clear entire rooms of anything. Don't use Death or Holy when you have an instant-kill AOE, ya dinguses.
TissueBox
Member
Never said I thought the game doesn't have problems that need fixing or could use improvement. Games by themselves and the devs behind them have the right to provide their audience an optimal experience, international/enhanced editions or what have you, and I'll sure take it. It's just the industry turning it into a safety net (particularly for campaign-oriented, non-multiplayer games) that worries me.
In the same time, this is also coming from a person who, while disappointed by several aspects of ch. 13, didn't feel too soured by it gameplay-wise. It's the story that gives the ultimate slap in the face there and kind of overall, which is what I'd like to see SE work on. Considering, that is, they could make it that much better to begin with. Time will tell, I guess.
Movalpolos
Banned
I see where you are coming from, but I'm sorry, it just didn't work. The sequence goes on for FAR too long. Especially since the chapter just before it is so restricting.
The last half of this game is more than linear (linear is fine by me), it's nearly on rails.
Gai Murakumo
Member
I think the hyperbole over how chapter 13 is bad is ridiculous. I never though it as a chore nor felt it was too long. I liked the change of pace. Sure I believe if you go into it underleveled you may have a rough time. It took me about a little over an hour to complete at around level 45 if I remember. I think everybody should experience it first hand and not rely too much on other people saying it is bad. If afterwards you think it is bad then that is fine, but I bet some of you who haven't will think that the negative attitude towards chapter 13 is dumb.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
And Nintendo realized the treasure hunt for shards was bullshit and fixed it in the remake.
Prototype Viktor
Member
The QA test was "what day is it? That's kinda close to shipping, eh"
I wouldn't worry overmuch about it Wired. They haven't said a word about the PS4 Pro patch that was promised this month to fix framepacing and add 60fps. Somehow I think a major content patch that updates an entire chapter of the game might be pretty far off, if it ever arrives at all.
It wasn't even that terrible, just baffling to me. They clearly spent a lot of time on the chapter and wanted you to spend more time there than almost any other solid gameplay block in the entire story. That's what doesn't make sense to me and fixing that doesn't mean spending more fucking time on this part of the game, it should mean putting more focus on other parts of the main story.
That's what I don't understand about this game. The allocation of resources is just weird. The main story is this patchwork of almost nothing, and meanwhile the world is filled with dungeons that take hours to do... at levels higher than the story. WHY? Who the hell would ever make that decision to gate off most of the actual content like that. Why didn't they integrate the world itself? It really feels like Tabata came in and refused to do anything with the story elements already done and his team just fucked around adding open world shit.
That's what I don't understand about this game. The allocation of resources is just weird. The main story is this patchwork of almost nothing, and meanwhile the world is filled with dungeons that take hours to do... at levels higher than the story. WHY? Who the hell would ever make that decision to gate off most of the actual content like that. Why didn't they integrate the world itself? It really feels like Tabata came in and refused to do anything with the story elements already done and his team just fucked around adding open world shit.
aspiegamer
Member
When it started I liked the style that you were starting from essentially zero with unexpected combat elements. Had that part been 15 minutes it wouldn't have been so bad. A novelty! A few areas to run around for door keys? Had that part been 15 minutes it wouldn't have been so bad. Let's genre-bend a little more! But it goes on soooooooooooo needlessly long.
Even if the level design was fantastic and more balanced it would still be out of place and somewhat awkward, but in a game where the dungeon design is otherwise pretty good it sticks out even more. Considering the content that had to be cut out of chapters 9 and 12 it's a shame this gameplay experiment got as much development attention.
Even if the level design was fantastic and more balanced it would still be out of place and somewhat awkward, but in a game where the dungeon design is otherwise pretty good it sticks out even more. Considering the content that had to be cut out of chapters 9 and 12 it's a shame this gameplay experiment got as much development attention.
TissueBox
Member
Holy crap lol.
Final Fantasy 15.
15 chapters.
QUICK, someone do a meta-analysis of the game and a chapter-by-chapter breakdown..!!
15 chapters.
QUICK, someone do a meta-analysis of the game and a chapter-by-chapter breakdown..!!
piratepwnsninja
Member
This is what I did. And while I didn't have a problem getting through it, pacing wise it's still too long. I don't think it is the worst thing ever, and I also don't think it's the worst crit path required thing in a FF game, but I'm not going to say it's good or even fine. It's poorly designed and actively fights against the narrative intentions of the level. It could have been just as effective in half the length, with less time being spent on the ring section. Even the intercom dialog didn't need as much space as they gave it. There are definitely other changes I'd make here, too, in service of the narrative; but playing through it's kind of obvious when they went into, "We just have to get this shit done" mode.
InsaneTiger
Member
SMH Squeenix.
Currently iteration of XV began in 2013; announced for 2016, delayed to ensure no day 1 patch; got the patch anyway; still isn't the way they wants, so another patch to change the narrative, add characters and whatnot.
Amazing.
Currently iteration of XV began in 2013; announced for 2016, delayed to ensure no day 1 patch; got the patch anyway; still isn't the way they wants, so another patch to change the narrative, add characters and whatnot.
Amazing.
Conkerkid11
Member
Damn, at least I'm in agreement with the author in regards to the story at that point in the game.
I liked it. It gave me a MGS Shadow Moses vibe coupled with FF7 prison level. It would have been a better chapter if it had the design of a dungeon, with wider areas and more enemies and special sub boss fights. On the other hand I wish I could explore some more cities, where actual story happened. The Last chapters felt extremely rushed and would benefit from a change in pace, more exploration and more flashbacks. Ravus for example would benefit so much from cutscenes out of Kingslaive.
ElMexiMerican
Member
Had I enjoyed Chapter 9, I probably would have not minded Chapter 13 as much, but Chapter 9 was such a low in the game everything after felt so much better.