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[AtomicShroom]

Fuck that.

$3 extra cost for the publisher requires $9 extra cost for the consumer? How does that work?

You can't just go around breaking even in business. Gotta maintain that high profit margin.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

Pretty shady move. If WB Games wasn't willing to fork up enough cash for cartridges with more memory (or alternatively, if Nintendo wasn't willing to bargain with them over those costs), then the game should had been a digital eShop exclusive. With that said, it also makes all of the commentary in the past weeks about flash cartridges being cheaper than discs, and how this wouldn't become a repeat of the costs of ROM cartridges vs. discs during the N64 era, rather ironic in hindsight.

I'm just speculating, though, not sure what exactly is the reason behind this decision.

This had better not become a common occurrence.

Rime is already gathering controversy over the Switch version costing $10 more than the other platforms, despite being released later than the other platforms and having no differences from the other releases (either in-game or through bonus material packaged with Switch copies).

This is probably just the beginning. At best I can see a handful of publishers exploiting this to half-ass support for the Switch, at worst I expect it to be a to-go statement for PR of many publishers to explain why their games won't be getting ports to the platform.

 

[jonno394]

You're not really providing an explanation so much that you're fugding numbers to get to the final price

You can argue with the numbers, but that's pretty much how things work. Nintendo and retailers take around 50% of the money in the RRP. Devs and pubs are left with a specific amount. a $4 cost to the dev/publisher who might say only get 25% of the RRP each s a big hit to them, and one that will make them ask "why prioritize a switch version where i'm making less money per unit against a PS4 or xbox one version?"

 

[LordKano]

Good point lol. But I mean if they're going to do it they may as well do it properly. I wonder why they didn't go 4gb? Or are those not available?

You can go as low as 1GB, but I guess the difference between 1, 4 or 8 is insignificant.

 

[LiK]

How big can a cartridge hold? BotW is pretty big isn't it?

 

[Jonneh3003]

But this is a console, not an ipad where apple charges 3x the price of the production cost

Yes but I said it was the size of a tablet, which it is.

Find me a tablet with Switch specs and a large hard drive, then show me the price. It may not be a "tablet" but in terms of form factor it's the closest comparison, devices like this don't come cheap with large amounts of storage.

 

[Tabasco]

So what's there to complain about.
People complaining about this should just buy a SD card

Tbh it makes the decision easier if I was on the fence about getting this game.

 

[frankie_baby]

That's the hope. Still, I feel like that they should have pushed to have 16GB as the minimum card size and try to reduce costs as much as they possibly could to help avoid situations like this. I might actually have to mention this to salespeople at my store, since there will be some parent buying this game for Easter and they could be pretty disappointed that they'll have to muck around with the memory in order to have their kids play it.

They could've done but when many of even their own games are only a couple if gigs have a 16gig minimum would have been hugely wasteful and the smaller cards are probably what is allowing a lot of indies and smaller games to get physical releases

 

[Harlock]

Is this any different than a day 1 update? I'm against those too, and this makes me sad, but semantics aside they are identical.

Stings extra hard with that 32GB storage. Thankfully micro SD cards are cheap I guess...

This is a port of a game made long time ago. Is not to fix because the entire game is broken. They are offloading the cartridge cost to the consumer. In a very kid friendly game, who parents going to buy and learn that need wait a lot of gb to download.

And is another hidden cost. Switch has more hidden costs than Zelda has hidden secrets =D

 

[Rebel Leader]

i think i mssread.. hold on

Edit: original post: what if the game installs onto the system like ps4?

 

[Morts]

Not an apt comparison when both X1 and PS4 have 500GB standard, with the Switch at only 32GB. Furthermore, both X1 and PS4 have easy solutions for a tremendous amount of additional hard drive space, whereas the Switch is essentially capped at pricey 200GB or 256GB options for the time being.

The issue here isn't the installation or downloading, it's the taking of valuable, limited space presumably due to the publisher squeezing out an additional profit margin.

The entire Switch is also not much larger than the hard drive in a PS4 or X1. It's more comparable to an iPad, which also starts at 32GB.

Now you could argue that's why there aren't many 20GB iOS games and Nintendo handicapped their system that way, but the expectation that the Switch would have 500GB laptop drive in it isn't fair.

 

[Kremzeek]

So this single player game will have a required download that uses 50% of the consoles storage...and somebody thought this was ok.

What a mess.

yeah, and when this underperforms on Switch compared to other platforms, they'll say "well we tried."

this kind of cheaping out on the cart, plus the absurdly small 32GB storage, really is a bad situation.

 

[Calm Mind]

Yes there is. The 32GB cart is expensive. DQHI・II (only in Japan right now) is a very expensive cartridge, and doesn't have a multiplatform release. The Switch, and card format, are so new that economies of scale haven't kicked in to lower the cost of production; it's why the only sub-$40 retail release you've seen so far hasn't been from GameStop themselves with Has-Been Heroes, but that's another story.

They could release LEGO City Undercover on a 32 GB card, and be the second game globally to do so. They also would have to ship at a significantly higher upfront cost (at least $10 more,) just so they have literally any margin on the game. If they have zero margin, they have no reason to sell it to you.

Making the consumer front the storage cost is shitty. I don't defend it. But saying there isn't a reason it can't go with a 32GB card is disingenuous or misinformed.

citation needed.

 

[Plum]

To think people actually defended 32GB of storage.

I don't understand posts like this. Did you expect the people defending the Switch's storage space to somehow know that something like this would happen?

 

[Eusis]

If the game were less than $60 it'd be lame still, at $60 it's just "fuck you." God damn.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Not cool

But we must also remember everything bought physical nowadays you put in your console and it starts downloading

If anything, switch has so far been the exception. Put a game in and start playing. Hopefully this is not the norm for switch, but literally everyone does this with physical

My base PS4 never had one game take up half of the internal storage.

You can expand your storage, ergo 32GB is not the "maximum" amount

I said maximum internal storage. I'm not talking about expandable storage.

 

[KennyLinder]

what if the game installs onto the system like ps4?

That's exactly what it does. Switch carts are not writable.

 

[LordKano]

yeah, and when this underperforms on Switch compared to other platforms, they'll say "well we tried."

this kind of cheaping out on the cart, plus the absurdly small 32GB storage, really is a bad situation.

It won't underperform. Pre-orders indicate it's the best selling version of the game.

 

[UberTag]

This is a deplorable practice.
Nintendo's cartridge cost-gouging was an issue I thought we left behind with the Nintendo 64. Cripes.
All parties involved should deservedly be read the riot act for this.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Sure, it's a scummy move, but Nintendo ultimately sets the prices for cards that third parties are forced to use to release games on their system. They created the restriction of expensive media when designing the system.

This is a deplorable practice.
Nintendo's cartridge cost-gouging was an issue I thought we left behind with the Nintendo 64. Cripes.
All parties involved should deservedly be read the riot act for this.

Pretty sure even at this scale it's just WB being incredibly cheap.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I would have refunded the game if I found this out after buying. If true, I'm definitely moving from day one purchase to never buying, even at extreme discount.

 

[PdotMichael]

32GB is nothing for a gaming device and only a thing for business reasons.

The lack of cheap storage space was always one of the more crucial bottlenecks of a hybrid gaming device.

 

[Maintenance]

And is another hidden cost. Switch has more hidden costs than Zelda has hidden secrets =D

This is only hidden if you are blind.

 

[hawk2025]

They put an SD card slot in the thing, they acomodate reality just fine

It seems like you will just rationalize anything, so I'm moving on.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Because Nintendo decided to use pricey carts.

is 'decided' really the right word?

was there ever any other option for a portable system in 2017? (besides all digital of course)

 

[DeuceGamer]

As we go forward though presumably bigger carts will become cheaper so I'm hoping that a year or so from now this wont be an issue that pops up often

You think Publishers are going to give up free money once they condition their audience to accept it?

 

[13ruce]

If the game were less than $60 it'd be lame still, at $60 it's just "fuck you." God damn.

Yeah will finally buy Resident Evil 7 instead and enjoy Mario Kart 8 online at the end of april. Still have lots to do in Zelda and also planning to order Nier Automa, Nioh and Horizon today.

So april will be good without that lego game for me.

Edit: might buy it cheap later but 60 bucks for a fake cartridge no thanks.

 

[Ridley327]

Well why is Just Dance not on such a small cartridge it's just corperate greed from WB.

Saw no dev complain about 3ds cartridges. MGS 3 used a more expensive one near launch also.

For something like Just Dance, you could probably get away with it as long as there's enough tracks to play from the jump. The game is basically all HD FMV and audio, so releasing it piecemeal would still make the game entirely playable, albeit with a fraction of the setlist.

I don't think that's an option for an open world game.

 

[LordKano]

Just Dance 2017 is 12.5GB according to the eShop. So it use a 16GB card, since you don't have to download anything. MSRP is 60$.

LEGO City is 7GB on card. So it uses a 8GB card. MSRP is 60$.

Now, can you really say Warner Bros is not, at least partially, at fault here ?

 

[Jacce]

Because Nintendo decided to use pricey carts.

No they didn't. It's a handheld. Its carts or nothing. There is no decision to be able to choose from.

Why are people acting like Nintendo chose to go with carts over discs? It's a handheld. Disc media is impossible for a handheld. It is either carts or download only.

They literally had no other choice. Disc media is impossible for a handheld system.`

 

[Flintty]

I'm ok with downloading personally but out of principle I'll be going Xbox for this now. Dodgy fuck practice.

 

[Joelstinton14]

People didn't think a publisher would try to screw them over like this by requiring them to download over 50% o the game after buying and inserting the damn cart. Tg!

Although this isn't ideal, to be fair to WB, the game is actually RRP £5 cheaper on Switch than the PS4/X1 (judging By amazon and game). So perhaps they are passing on the savings to the customer.

 

[Neoxon]

Because Nintendo decided to use pricey carts.

They likely didn't have any other option, since the PSP proved that discs for something you take on the go is a terrible idea.

 

[Xando]

The carts aren't the issue here, unless you're saying that the Switch should have used Blu-Rays instead... somehow. The issue is that Warner Bros. chose the most anti-consumer option available to them, and Nintendo let them do it. Both sides are in the wrong here.

Carts are the issue tho. There are 3 options in this and i suspect this will happen to most third party games.

1)
Either the publisher or Nintendo eats the extra cost
2)
Not the complete game is on the cart and publishers can go with the cheapest option
3)
Switch games will cost more than their PS4/XB1 versions

 

[Marty Chinn]

This is only hidden if you are blind.

If this was true, then this wouldn't be a surprise or news to anyone. That doesn't look very true, so yes it was a hidden cost surprise.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Why are people acting like Nintendo chose to go with carts over discs?

It's a handheld. Disc media is impossible for a handheld. It is either carts or download only.

They literally had no other choice. Disc media is impossible for a handheld system.`

It's not 'impossible', it's just 'incalculably stupid next to just using carts'.

which, yeah, I'm confused why that's a notion going around in this thread, too.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You can argue with the numbers, but that's pretty much how things work. Nintendo and retailers take around 50% of the money in the RRP. Devs and pubs are left with a specific amount. a $4 cost to the dev/publisher who might say only get 25% of the RRP each s a big hit to them, and one that will make them ask "why prioritize a switch version where i'm making less money per unit against a PS4 or xbox one version?"

The $2-4 additional cost of cards over discs was completely unfounded and was only speculated because that's what would get the numbers to work. That's my point. You guys are working backwards assuming cards are significantly pricier, instead of providing any evidence that that is the case

 

[jonno394]

They likely didn't have any other option, since the PSP proved that discs for something you take on the go is a terrible idea.

Very true, i'll take it back and say their hands were forced, but Nintendo decides the price at which these things are provided to publishers.

 

[frankie_baby]

You think Publishers are going to give up free money once they condition their audience to accept it?

When Turok 2 launched on the n64 it released on what at the time was the biggest n64 cartridge ever (256 whole megabits) it also launched at the bottom end of what n64 games cost in the uk (40 quid)

 

[Jacce]

Carts are the issue tho. There are 3 options in this and i suspect this will happen to most third party games.

1)
Either the publisher or Nintendo eats the extra cost
2)
Not the complete game is on the cart and publishers can go with the cheapest option
3)
Switch games will cost more than their PS4/XB1 versions

If carts are the issue then what media format should they have use? Sticking a bluray drive in a small handheld device? That makes zero sense.

 

[Waluigilicious]

You can go as low as 1GB, but I guess the difference between 1, 4 or 8 is insignificant.

Good point. Although this then becomes greed really more than anything.

Just Dance 2017 is 12.5GB according to the eShop. So it use a 16GB card, since you don't have to download anything. MSRP is 60$.

LEGO City is 7GB on card. So it uses a 8GB card. MSRP is 60$.

Now, can you really say Warner Bros is not, at least partially, at fault here ?

I understand what you're saying but this logic is kind of flawed. They can't really price their game less and make it seem inferior when in reality it's "worth" the 60$.

 

[ffdgh]

That's...a weird first. Better hope this doesn't become more common.

 

[Gamezone]

Wow, if true, this will make Switch physical media totally worthless.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Although this isn't ideal, to be fair to WB, the game is actually RRP £5 cheaper on Switch than the PS4/X1 (judging By amazon and game). So perhaps they are passing on the savings to the customer.

Oh yeah so it is:

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

This is only hidden if you are blind.

I didn't expect to have a single game take up half of my storage space since I was going physical.

 

[jonno394]

The $2-4 additional cost of cards over discs was completely unfounded and was only speculated because that's what would get the numbers to work. That's my point. You guys are working backwards assuming cards are significantly pricier, instead of providing any evidence that that is the case

actually, Nicalis stated in interviews that it costs a few dollars extra to bring games to switch (hence why we operate with around $3-$4 as the price hike), will find exact link shortly.

 

[guek]

My base PS4 never had one game take up half of the internal storage.

I said maximum internal storage. I'm not talking about expandable storage.

32GB of internal storage is perfectly fine at the given price point of the Switch. WB is the one who went for the cheaper option here to maximize profits at the expense of consumers. Even going with a 16GB card over a measly 8GB would have made a massive difference in the day one download and there's no reason they couldn't have done that while charging $60 for an ancient game.

 

[Schnozberry]

You're wrong though. Nintendo should be blamed for their media pricing.

Nobody is saying that carts aren't more expensive. It's the choices being made to accommodate it that piss people off. Nintendo could be blamed for an increase of a few dollars being passed along to customers. People might understand paying an additional $5 to have a physical cart that allows them to resell or trade with friends, but they can't be held accountable for a manufacturers decision to choose the cheapest cart possible in order to maintain the largest possible profit margin, forcing end users to make large downloads. Or the choice to move the Switch version of a game into the next price bracket to gouge an extra few dollars on a popular new console that has a small library.

 

[Xando]

If carts are the issue then what media format should they have use? Sticking a bluray drive in a small handheld device? That makes zero sense.

That's not my problem to figure out.
Nintendo decided to go with it and they need to figure it out.

 

[Pinky]

Wow!