The Last of Us Part II announced
- Thread starter Greatest Ever
- Start date
Prototype Viktor
Member
So how long before I get to play as Cassie Drake?
2-3 years?
I didn't like TLoU, but I like the Uncharted Series. Not trying to junk up thread, honestly curious as to how far out that "theoretical" game would be.
It's always possible I'll like TLOUP2...of course.
it'd be Cassie Drake in Uncharted Snap! where you only take pictures
That's what I was thinking as well.
Wouldn't be surprised if Ellie's mum is played by Shannon Woodward.
Ellie isn't going to have a kid. There's no way Druckmann and Co. would do anything that could 'muddy' (for lack of a better term) her status as a prominent gay character, including bisexuality. She will be 100% a strictly gay character, I am sure of that.
And if The Last of Us is anything to go by I expect the plot of Part II to be exactly what is implied - the Fireflies attack Joel, Ellie and their 'sanctuary', and Ellie goes on a revenge crusade while Joel is all like
in the background, realizing it's his fault. Ellie'll be mad a Joel when she finds out, but Joel will die before they reconcile in a reverse of Sarah's death. I thought they'd subvert expectations with TLOU and Uncharted 4, but they didn't, so I expect the events in Part II to transpire exactly like that.
And if The Last of Us is anything to go by I expect the plot of Part II to be exactly what is implied - the Fireflies attack Joel, Ellie and their 'sanctuary', and Ellie goes on a revenge crusade while Joel is all like
JMZ555
Member
I would prefer to see nothing on the single player story at E3. Its day 1 for me , dont need any trailers for it.
What i would love though is a in depth look at Factions 2.0 multiplayer.
Loved the multi for LOU. The pace and feel was such a nice change compared to other multiplayer games.
Really hope they keep the pace and style and just improve it by adding more features and customisation.
What i would love though is a in depth look at Factions 2.0 multiplayer.
Loved the multi for LOU. The pace and feel was such a nice change compared to other multiplayer games.
Really hope they keep the pace and style and just improve it by adding more features and customisation.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
I can't see ND showing this game at E3, hopefully PSX if we are very lucky. The SP should be fine gameplay wise, although Straley is gone there are still good designers there.
The MP team need sorting out big time though, the co-op of UC4 was so shit. TLOU II simply must have some kind of horde mode, would waste hours on such a mode were it to happen.
The MP team need sorting out big time though, the co-op of UC4 was so shit. TLOU II simply must have some kind of horde mode, would waste hours on such a mode were it to happen.
comshoplesce
Member
DISSESHOWEDO
Banned
Mark my words, Joel is dead or is going to die in Part II. In the first game, Joel promissed to teach Ellie to play the guitar. The way the teaser is made, makes me think that by playing the guitar, Ellie has an imaginative talk with Joel. What he would say, what he would do in the given circumstances.
JMZ555
Member
You did? I didn't because of those awfull 2 trophies I need for platinum
Awful? I got the plat and don't remember the trophies being hard to get at all? As long as you was smart when selecting choices.
Of course if you hated the multi but wanted the plat then yeah i can see that as a pain.
I have a hard time believing we won't see anything from e3, hopefully a snippet of gameplay.
As far as Ellie's motivation goes, the world and themes of the game aren't exactly black and white -- I have a hard time believing Druckman would rely on old revenge / exploitation tropes to move her forward as a character. It seems like Joel has some reservations in the teaser, and it's not in his nature to dissuade someone from violence.
As far as Ellie's motivation goes, the world and themes of the game aren't exactly black and white -- I have a hard time believing Druckman would rely on old revenge / exploitation tropes to move her forward as a character. It seems like Joel has some reservations in the teaser, and it's not in his nature to dissuade someone from violence.
eso76
Member
I'm sure it was.
Ok
That picture is the same as the one in the epilogue of U4
Ellie looks pregnant in that Easter egg, right? So if this is anything to go by, I think it's totally possible that the fireflies took her baby to try and come up with a cure. That's what they tried to do with Ellie at the end of TLOU. In TLOU, they needed Ellie's brain to try and make a vaccine, effectively killing her. If Ellie had a baby, maybe they figure they baby is immune to the cordyceps as well.
AI don't see how it's so ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous, don't know why people are attacking you for coming up with a theory anyway.
Now I'd rather have it not be rape, and I'd rather have her be still pregnant, but the premise could have an interesting development as we see Ellie's perspective change, from being the one willing to submit to experiments​ and hating (?) Joel for not letting fireflies kill her in the process, and then finding herself in his shoes and determined to do the same. Or not ?
Given the reactions to TLOUs ending I think it could be be used to great effect.
Also, being gay or bisexual doesn't mean you wouldn't want to have a baby anyway.
Might be part of the experimenting getting her pregnant (let's say it was artificial insemination she agreed to, not rape) to see if her descendants are also immune. Not that far fetched
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Ellie isn't going to have a kid. There's no way Druckmann and Co. would do anything that could 'muddy' (for lack of a better term) her status as a prominent gay character, including bisexuality. She will be 100% a strictly gay character, I am sure of that.
And if The Last of Us is anything to go by I expect the plot of Part II to be exactly what is implied - the Fireflies attack Joel, Ellie and their 'sanctuary', and Ellie goes on a revenge crusade while Joel is all likein the background, realizing it's his fault. Ellie'll be mad a Joel when she finds out, but Joel will die before they reconcile in a reverse of Sarah's death. I thought they'd subvert expectations with TLOU and Uncharted 4, but they didn't, so I expect the events in Part II to transpire exactly like that.
Druckmann would be salivating at the idea of people playing as a pregnant Ellie. He's a writer. Not only would she be fighting to keep herself alive, she'd be fighting to keep her unborn child alive too. And what affect would that have on the player? How would WE deal with that responsibility? Now ... what if that child was the result of a rape? Do you fight for it or against it? How careful would you play? What would Ellie be feeling? I'm telling you, Druckmann would be salivating at the idea of people playing as a pregnant Ellie. HE'S A WRITER.
comshoplesce
Member
lukeskymac
Member
I wouldn't have minded this infoless necrobump if such a big part of it wasn't comprised of nonsense BS like those dolce (RIP) and wesley-sigma posts. Sigh.
If I see that American Daughters poster misinterpreted one more time, I swear...
If I see that American Daughters poster misinterpreted one more time, I swear...
Nothing about the work of Druckmann's that I've experienced suggests to me that he'd wade into something that complicated. I don't think he'll make a flagship gay character arguably 'not so gay' by consensually becoming pregnant, nor would he add rape as a plot device for a flagship female protagonist.
Applying Oscar's razor has worked for TLOU and Uncharted 4 - I don't see TLOU 2 being any different. The pregnant woman represents Ellie's unable to breathe spores mother, and nobody else.
Fancy Clown
Member
He wouldn't be "salivating" at that because he's not a fuckin hack lol. I honestly can't fathom how anyone wouldn't realize how trashy it would be to have a major LGBT character get raped have that be the impetus for their character motivation. Like, Druckmann wanted to make an action hero for his daughter, do you honestly think that he's just gonna turn Ellie into a baby vessel? That's some real female empowerment right there.
eso76
Member
Fancy Clown
Member
It's better if he doesn't think we're all degenerates
Here is my idea for how I would make The Last of us 2 story.
The prologue would start with the player playing a guy who belongs in a band of scavengers looking for food/supplies, probably in Pittsburgh or some area of the first game. They would talk about how scared they are to be there but they had to because their families are behind and they require food and they have no other choice. The player's character would say that he is doing it for his son/daughter who is like 10 years old or something. While looking for food they would encounter clickers and other stuff some of the scavenger guys would die. They would find food and while trying to return to their camp they would encounter Joel who would proceed to kill them to protect Ellie, they could make the band of scavengers to be some actual enemies from the first game. End of Prologue.
Fast forward 10-15 years in the future, you will play as the son/daughter of the scavenger who died from Joel in the Prologue. You were raised from a single mother since your father died at the hands of Joel, you have moved on since many of your people died since the band of scavengers got killed and didn't manage to return with the food/supplies. Somehow make it so the mother knows about Joel and passes the information to the son/daughter before she dies or just passes the information without dying. Your character now as an adult goes on a revenge quest looking for Joel and the little girl he/she had, to get revenge for his/her's father's death and his/her's camp's destruction because of Joel. Long story short dunno about the in between things but in the end the hero finds an Older Joel defended by an adult Ellie and you have to kill both. Or make it that the hero finds Ellie in the road, who is looking for supplies to get them back on her camp who she lives with Tommy and Joel, has adventures and struggles with her, ends up falling in love with her but upon return to her camp the hero realizes that Joel is the person who killer his/her's father and exacts revenge upon Joel and that turns Ellie against him even though she loved him and he/she has to kill her.
I think with this kind of story they make the player feel bad about all the people they slaughtered in the first game, who knows maybe they were just there gathering supplies like you to protect their family. Also it will have the maximum result on the player because he will have to kill the protagonists of the first game and maybe it will make the player see Joel from another perspective, from the scavengers perspective it is Joel who is the evil one not them. What do you think guys?
The prologue would start with the player playing a guy who belongs in a band of scavengers looking for food/supplies, probably in Pittsburgh or some area of the first game. They would talk about how scared they are to be there but they had to because their families are behind and they require food and they have no other choice. The player's character would say that he is doing it for his son/daughter who is like 10 years old or something. While looking for food they would encounter clickers and other stuff some of the scavenger guys would die. They would find food and while trying to return to their camp they would encounter Joel who would proceed to kill them to protect Ellie, they could make the band of scavengers to be some actual enemies from the first game. End of Prologue.
Fast forward 10-15 years in the future, you will play as the son/daughter of the scavenger who died from Joel in the Prologue. You were raised from a single mother since your father died at the hands of Joel, you have moved on since many of your people died since the band of scavengers got killed and didn't manage to return with the food/supplies. Somehow make it so the mother knows about Joel and passes the information to the son/daughter before she dies or just passes the information without dying. Your character now as an adult goes on a revenge quest looking for Joel and the little girl he/she had, to get revenge for his/her's father's death and his/her's camp's destruction because of Joel. Long story short dunno about the in between things but in the end the hero finds an Older Joel defended by an adult Ellie and you have to kill both. Or make it that the hero finds Ellie in the road, who is looking for supplies to get them back on her camp who she lives with Tommy and Joel, has adventures and struggles with her, ends up falling in love with her but upon return to her camp the hero realizes that Joel is the person who killer his/her's father and exacts revenge upon Joel and that turns Ellie against him even though she loved him and he/she has to kill her.
I think with this kind of story they make the player feel bad about all the people they slaughtered in the first game, who knows maybe they were just there gathering supplies like you to protect their family. Also it will have the maximum result on the player because he will have to kill the protagonists of the first game and maybe it will make the player see Joel from another perspective, from the scavengers perspective it is Joel who is the evil one not them. What do you think guys?
I phrased it better in my earlier post.
My point being that Druckmann isn't going to take a flagship gay character in video games and cast doubt on her sexuality. She will be unquestionably a gay character, even though of course in the real world people can have doubts and experiences before finding themselves.
In the world of TLOU the only way she could become pregnant is if she decided to have sex with a man, or if she were raped, and I'm certain neither will happen.
Fancy Clown
Member
Sure, being a mother is heroic. Using a narrative platform for the first(?) major LGBT protagonist and action hero for girls everywhere and using that to once again reiterate that women have to be mothers just like every other piece of media out there? Not so sure about that, mayne.
eso76
Member
Sex with a man, when it's the only way to give birth to your own kid is not unheard of of lesbians, but Ellie looks way too young to feel such a strong mother's instinc; it couldn't be that.
Rape was already hinted at in TLOU and while it's a very real possibility in TLOUs world, I doubt it would be used again.
Artificial insemination as part of the tests to see if her kid would also be immune, though ?
Maybe she even agreed to (heck, she was willing to have her brain cut into small pieces) but as her kid grows inside her, priorities change which is also very natural.
Anyway, realistically speaking, doubt the poster in UC4 meant anything and actually it's probably just there to throw you off.
You say that like women being able to give birth is just another sexist trope.
Like "TLOU2 will be a cooking game because the main character is a woman !".
I'm not sure I've ever seen a pregnant action hero anywhere else, and being pregnant wouldn't mean she just has to sit there while a man brings her food and protects her.
I don't know, maybe I misunderstood
I think it's silly that we even apply our world's sexual and social constructs to a world like The Last of Us, where simply finding someone who won't kill you for your can of beans is a special relationship.
This applies more so to people who were born post-outbreak, as Ellie was. In the world of the last of us, do we suppose kids there imagine themselves to grow up and have a career or some kind of role in their community? Be fathers or mothers, husbands or wives? Do they even imagine themselves getting to be an adult?
Or is the only real aspiration to be a survivalist? To live as long as possible, and maybe, hopefully find someone out there you can trust your life with - gender, race, orientation, and age be damned. When you think about it, that's the only kind of relationship that matters in a world like that.
This applies more so to people who were born post-outbreak, as Ellie was. In the world of the last of us, do we suppose kids there imagine themselves to grow up and have a career or some kind of role in their community? Be fathers or mothers, husbands or wives? Do they even imagine themselves getting to be an adult?
Or is the only real aspiration to be a survivalist? To live as long as possible, and maybe, hopefully find someone out there you can trust your life with - gender, race, orientation, and age be damned. When you think about it, that's the only kind of relationship that matters in a world like that.
Thanks. I also think it would be an interesting perspective to see her in the role of a parent wanting to save her child from the fireflies.
And for the record, I absolutely would not want Ellie to be raped. Someone mentioned she's gay, and I said 'maybe she could have been raped' because I thought it could happen in that bleak and awful world. That doesn't mean it's something I'd want to happen. I didn't appreciate people in this thread basically saying I'm sick in the head for bringing that possibility up. If I'm sick, then the writers for 13 Reasons Why and Outlander are sick as well. Hell, G.R.R.M would be sick as well. People seem to like his A Song of Ice and Fire series and Game of Thrones, though.
But like you said, it's totally plausible that artificial insemination is what she agreed to.
Doomshroom
Member
Why dont they just take Ellie?
Carrying a baby to term from rape is the most heroic thing you can think of for a female character?
Fancy Clown
Member
In a vacuum it's not, but you have to look at the broader context, both within the narrative framework of The Last of Us and in society as a whole. Rape is the ultimate stripping of agency, and having a man write a story having that happen to an LBGT action hero and then express her heroism by having her carry the baby of her rapist, especially when in real life there are men in the government fighting to make it so women have to carry the babies of their rapists...it just comes off as extremely distasteful to me. And beyond that, how do you think it's gonna look having a pregnant character get involved in the graphic death scenes that happen on a regular basis in The Last of Us?
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I think the theory is pretty sound. You can explain away most things that people would say don't make sense such as the respirator mask and Ellie's sexuality+pregnancy. I don't believe that Ellie's sexuality has ever definitely been stated. Though it's clear that she was drawn to Riley, we have no grounds to say she harbors no attraction to males. I think that leaves room to speculate.
Be aware that she was a 14 year old girl in the TLoU and we have no inkling of how she's matured developmentally in terms of sexuality or mentally. I think the argument that "she was a lesbian at 14 years old and so will remain one for the entirety of her life" is a shaky one honestly. Rarely do we as people remain constant throughout our lives, we are all subjected to change. Concepts such as homo, hetero and bisexuality are likely alien to her, she likely just like what she likes. So I think that yes, she could've had sex with someone voluntarily and become pregnant. I think forcing a rape unto her just as a means of progressing the narrative is questionable.
The respirator can be explained away very easily as well. Ellie is wearing the mask because although she may be immune, that doesn't mean that her daughter will be. It's similar in concept to a pregnant woman smoking or drinking. They may be inconsequential to the mother but they are very adverse to the child. So that explains why Ellie who is immune is wearing one.
I like the theory that Ellie is essentially embarking on a journey akin to Joel's and she will come to understand the reasons why he did the things he did and why he lied to her. Her child is abducted by the Fireflies in hopes of harvesting the brain and synthesizing a cure and in the ensuing conflict, her settlement destroyed and husband killed. Hopefully they're estranged at the game's onset and when the journey is complete, she salvages their relationship with an afflicted/sick Joel and let's him spend his last remaining moments with her and her child whom she has named Sarah.
To clarify, creating a new account to circumvent a ban isn't going to get you banned provided you make a genuine effort to be a better poster. In point of fact, my original account is perma-banned (I was still a junior at the time of the infamous Epic Mickey thread), which I've mentioned several times in the past, and yet here I am, ~eight years and 70k+ posts later. Also, EmCeeGramr's original account was perma-banned and he's now a mod.
I don't see the baby stealing thing happening either, but I don't think it's half as far-fetched and ridiculous as the dog-piling suggests.
Has it even been confirmed that the pregnant woman is Ellie's mom? I remember Druckmann being coy about that poster in some recent interview. That would be odd if it was already confirmed.
Has it even been confirmed that the pregnant woman is Ellie's mom? I remember Druckmann being coy about that poster in some recent interview. That would be odd if it was already confirmed.
Novel Mike
Member
The whole thing about Ellie being pregnant is just asinine. That would literally be the worst and least interesting thing they could do with her character and would literally be 'Dragon Balling' her. Those who aren't familiar with such a thing: The DB series has taken pretty much every strong female character and made into a mother, Bulma, Chichi, Videl, #18, ect. The male characters can keep on going on adventures but the female characters all get regulated to housewife status. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a female character being a mother but when its the only logical conclusion you have for pretty much every female character in the DB series it just comes across as sexist as all hell and really shitty writing which is something I want TLoU to avoid at any and all costs.
Ellie doesn't need a kid to have a dramatic storyline or have a major story arc.
Ellie doesn't need a kid to have a dramatic storyline or have a major story arc.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I'm not sure how Ellie becoming pregnant and gaining some semblance of hope in the world be sexist? Just because Akira Toriyama isn't a great writer doesn't mean the ND team will fall victim to the same trappings.
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
I'm prettttttty sure that pregnant woman in the poster is Ellie's mom. Otherwise, it being Ellie - a prominent lesbian character in a highly acclaimed and beloved game - would more than likely cause a major backlash from the LGBT community, depending on how the baby was conceived. As a queer, I know I would be pissed, especially having extensively read up on harmful stereotypes and cliches that permeate lesbian characters and same-sex romances in books, movies, and TV shows. Things are, of course, much better now with how such social issues are being handled in the entertainment medium - but that certainly doesn't stop me from being apprehensive about the how community is being represented. I mean just reading some of the posts here are making me cringe y'all lol.
I would personally love to see Ellie in a stable, healthy relationship with a girl. I love the idea of it being a complete contrast to the dreary, violent, and virus infested world they're living in. Joel can be that shotgun-totting dad that embarrasses Ellie to hell and back in the lighter moments of the game (if he doesn't die ). Also I need more stable, healthy gay romances in games in general. While the medium is making strides in the inclusion of LGBT characters, relationships are a whole 'nother matter - barring Bioware games.
I would personally love to see Ellie in a stable, healthy relationship with a girl. I love the idea of it being a complete contrast to the dreary, violent, and virus infested world they're living in. Joel can be that shotgun-totting dad that embarrasses Ellie to hell and back in the lighter moments of the game (if he doesn't die
). Also I need more stable, healthy gay romances in games in general. While the medium is making strides in the inclusion of LGBT characters, relationships are a whole 'nother matter - barring Bioware games.
BlackLiamNeeson
Neo Member
Honestly don't understand why people are being so abusive towards you and your idea. Its super interesting and not unlikely. Really cool theory. Not sure it'll happen, but nothing to dismiss!
Im sorry, but it doesnt
damn, that makes sense
And seeing how in Uncharted 4
they used a lot of flashback sequences, I wouldnt be surprised if we played as Ellie's mom for a chapter in the game
What the fuck is this? Mothers can't be badasses now? In fact parenthood is a major theme in Last of Us and was the impetus for Neil to do this story.
I mean, that's almost certainly what the 'American Daughters' poster represents, in combination with the mo-cap image featuring a baby-sized doll. Besides, it doesn't make sense to be Ellie considering that the woman depicted is wearing a gas-mask, presumably to avoid inhaling spores (a concern Ellie shouldn't have).
American Daughters is interesting though, come to think of it. I wonder if Ellie has a long-lost sibling, Nathan Drake style...
Anyway, I'm sure all of this has been discussed before.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Oh man, the sibling thing reminds me of Incendies style thing that could happen and I don't know if the world would be ready for that.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Just because Ellie is immune doesn't mean her potential child would be though, so it makes sense as to why she wears the respirator. We don't know what adverse effects the cordyceps spores have on a fetus. It makes sense. It's akin to smoking/drinking: the effects are fleeting on the mother but lasting on the fetus.
Fancy Clown
Member
I doubt it would be essential, but it would probably help further understand her character. It's really good regardless.
Novel Mike
Member
Of course they can that wasn't what I meant, my point was that there are many other and more interesting things they can do with Ellie as a character besides just making her a mother. In fiction its somewhat a trap, instead of continuing development of female characters and their lives post adventure or having them start new adventures at times writers take an easy route by simply making them parents and in many stories that simply ends any and all character development for that character. I was using DB as an example as its one of the worst ways its done.
I'm not saying that ND couldn't make something like that work (if anyone could its them) but I would worry that if that was actually the direction they are going in the story as having that be the next logical continuation of Ellies story would seem like they are falling into that same kind of trap which is not what I want to see.
Not to mention that they were pretty clear about making Ellie gay and while other posters have provided reasoning for how/why it might happen it still is a backward step of character development that we got in the DLC.
Mothers can go on aventures and be badass. Toriyama is just very bad at writing women.
Being a mother, in good fiction, is generally a way to make a character grow. If it ends charater development then it is bad writing as parenthood isn't something that should be developed instantly and is constantly changing.
As far as her being a lesbian. She could have a strong enough desire to have a kid and raise one either with herself or a partner that she gets inseminated by someone. Similar to the ways many same sex couples donate sperm or receive sperm in order to conceive a child of their own.
Looks a whole bunch like Ellie to me.
Ellie had a hard life.
Jawbreaker
Member
You should play it anyway; it's really good. You get a better understanding of Ellie's character.
Is it essential to play it before the sequel, though? I highly doubt it.
Dice//
Banned
They can do a lot with preggo Elie so long as she isn't in her third trimester or whatever. Given her outstanding immunity I kinda hope she'd at least want one kid. Not saying she has to, but...y'know... it'd be nice to have more disease-immune kids (ugh, unless that's her moral dilemma like Joel had in the first game. 
), or hopefully find other people with a similar condition.
who knows
), or hopefully find other people with a similar condition. who knows
wild wild rice
Member
Maybe we'll finally get the answer to our burning question...Who would make the better mother: Ellie or Samus?