Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war

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hyperbertha said:
Palestinians do not want to coexist with a different religion.
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This, more than any other consideration, is the reason why this conflict continues, and why it is as bloody and a vicious as it is.

Sadly, the world is not prepared to condemn the barbarism of Islam. Largely because it means they would also have to acknowledge the barbarism that still exists in their own religions.
 
ChuckeRearmed said:
I think the main problem is that Israel returned the land it won in the wars. The moment arab states declared that Israel had no rights to exist, it should have never conceded anything back. I have always believed that those lands would be better under Israeli governorship.
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Eek. That's a bit of a slippery slope. Self determination for a nation is extremely important.

Unless you want me to sit here and make an argument for why America would be better if it were still under British rule :messenger_winking:
 
MadPanda said:
So whoever wins gets their actions justified? Sorry but I can't accept that. In that line of though, Crimea is Russian as they won it. And many other things.

Yeah, your solution would be great if you would let Palestinians live their life and not evict them forcibly from their homes while they're trying to live their life. That would really be an amazing solution if Israelis behaved like that but sadly they aren't.

Palestinians should've accepted two state solution decades ago.



EviLore was in charge back then as he is now.




Rejecting two state solution was a mistake. IDF shouldn't commit war crimes. I don't condone their diaspora celebrating war crimes. Still doesn't justify war crimes committed by IDF.

Unfortunately, they have. Very mod here is justifying that ad simply "war".


IDF commanders aren't risking anything, they aren't going to jail regardless of what they do. What world are you living in? Who's going to hold them accountable? The only one to blame for civilian casualties are those committing them. Stop justifying that and stop dehumanizing people.
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Also, you still haven't answered the question. What would you do?
 
FunkMiller said:
Eek. That's a bit of a slippery slope. Self determination for a nation is extremely important.
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There is a self determination and there is "all the jews should be killed". Nobody is saying that "nazis should have a self determination", and we literally have people parroting the same rhetoric, celebrating Hamas' attack.
 
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ChuckeRearmed said:
There is a self determination and there is "all the jews should be killed". Nobody is saying that "nazis should have a self determination", and we literally have people parroting the same rhetoric, celebrating Hamas' attack.
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If the Palestinians actually had self determination, they wouldn't be under the yoke of Hamas's rule. Self determination means the ability to think and believe what you want, in a free society. Those poor fuckers have never had that, thanks to the religious doctrines they are brainwashed into.

I celebrate and hope for the self determination of the Palestinian people at some point in the future, because that most assuredly means they wouldn't be controlled by an oppressive regime that's now responsible for them being murdered en masse.

I'm sure the Israelis would want the exact same thing.
 
Peggies said:
Yesterday in Vienna: there was a peaceful memorial event for the victims in Israel. The other event was banned because they had "Free Palestine from river to see" in their invitations - a "slogan" that's prohibited here.

Well, that ban didn't interest hundreds and hundreds of aggressiv Muslims gathering nevertheless, screaming "Alahu Akbar" for hours. In front of St. Stephen's cathedral - one of our most precious landmarks.

Police didn't do shit. Police pissed their pants.

We're so fucked. My baby boys will never know how peaceful Europe was until that clerical fascist sect sprawled.

I'm so angry and so sad I could puke.
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I'm glad that polish govement is so intolerant and xenophobic in some aspects. "They" also don't want to come here because no one would give them any free shit.

Western Europe acts like someone fucked in the head, they think "multiculturalism is a strength" when it was proven countles times that it isn't. Especially when you have people completly not compatible with your culture that even actively hate you and want you dead.
 
FunkMiller said:
Eek. That's a bit of a slippery slope. Self determination for a nation is extremely important.

Unless you want me to sit here and make an argument for why America would be better if it were still under British rule :messenger_winking:
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The creation of the state of Israel was self determination. Anyway, self determination is not an inherently good or bad thing as to why it can be either. What do you think Crimea and the Donbass is if not self determination for the ethnic Russians. The Taliban the same. What do you think the Confederation was. There is nothing wrong with saying Israel would be preferable to an Islamic Caliphate and thats what Hamas wants. I don't think Jihadists are interested in creating a secular state. At least the American colonists actually wanted to create a more free country than what Britain was st the time.This relativism crap needs to end.
 
Bojji said:
I'm glad that polish govement is so intolerant and xenophobic in some aspects. "They" also don't want to come here because no one would give them any free shit.

Western Europe acts like someone fucked in the head, they think "multiculturalism is a strength" when it was proven countles times that it isn't. Especially when you have people completly not compatible with your culture that even actively hate you and want you dead.
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The current Polish government are corrupt motherfuckers and should in no way be held up as an example of good policy.

www.politico.eu

Poland’s government under fire after reports of cash-for-visas scheme

The ruling party is scrambling to distance itself from the scandal, which could dent its support ahead of next month’s election.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
Really is hard for me dwell too much on the plight of those who use terror as the spotlight for their situation. If the people of Palestine want attention drawn to their plight then they should start by fighting their oppressors. And no, I'm not talking about Israel. I'm talking about Hamas. Gaza is a prison within a prison for the Palestinian people. But frankly, I'm not convinced that the people of Palestine want Hamas removed. Perhaps they truly are happy being human shields as Hamas claims. In which case, they want the rest of the world to assign a higher value on Palestinian life then Palestinians do themselves. But why do people who point fingers at Israel seem to not even acknowledge how horribly Hamas is treating the people they supposedly represent? Why are they not calling for nations to liberate Palestine from Hamas? They cannot have it both ways.

Ultimately, I firmly believe that the world cannot view the situation in Gaza through a lens that empowers terrorism. Dealing with terrorists should always be first in the order of operations. Hamas must be removed.
 
Madserb2023 said:
It's not about justifying anything, it's about putting things in context. For comparison, Northern Ireland is part of Uk because of the civil war that took place. Due to the faming and millions of Irish people leaving, the North became almost completely deserted and was subsequently settled by the Scottish/Englush and overtime became culturally different. I can see why the Irish weren't happy but that is the reality of what just happened and the IRA were not justified in their response to just kill civilians in Northen Ireland. You can't change the past. Losing territory to war and demographics has happened to almost every country in the world. The only reason there was peace is because the IRA agreed to put down their weapons. You and me both know Hamas will never do that.
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Not going to derail the thread but this is one hell of a revisionist account of Irish & Scottish history.
 
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FunkMiller said:
If the Palestinians actually had self determination, they wouldn't be under the yoke of Hamas's rule. Self determination means the ability to think and believe what you want, in a free society. Those poor fuckers have never had that, thanks to the religious doctrines they are brainwashed into.

I celebrate and hope for the self determination of the Palestinian people at some point in the future, because that most assuredly means they wouldn't be controlled by an oppressive regime that's now responsible for them being murdered en masse.

I'm sure the Israelis would want the exact same thing.
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Self determination is like a democracy - you have learn it yourself. And the thing is that there is no indication that palestinians want to get rid of Hamas at all, meaning that they will be a constant treat. Like Hamas turned water pipes (?) into rocket launchers. Where are those palestinians protesting against them? So far their population is just growing, while the ideology of erasing jews is still there.

Somebody should give in and certainly cannot be jews, because the opposite side literally wants to erase them from existence. Also it is quite telling that no other arab country want to accept palestinians.
 
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Peter Hitchens is one of the most level headed and sensible heads around in the UK. One of the few voices of reason left who gets plaformed.
He's been to Gaza and the region a lot.

Worth a listen.

 
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Dice said:
Not going to derail the thread but this is one hell of a revisionist account of Irish & Scottish history.
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I think going back to plantation is probably a little too deep for the point they were making. But yeah Ireland itself is just as complex and difficult especially if you've engaged with the history and walked the shankhill, seen the loyalist flag on kerbsides etc. Visited the communities where construction was limited.
 
It feels like the paradox of tolerance would demand the destruction of a group like Hamas, as they make any compromise- both two-state and one-state with meaningful protections for Jews- impossible.
 
MidGenRefresh said:
I wonder why Egypt won't accept their Muslim brothers with open arms... Compare this to situation with the war in Ukraine where neighboring Poland accepted millions.
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Jordan gave them refuge, and they tried to kill Jordans king. Egypt recently ousted a more extreme government which Hamas/PLO had closer ties to, so letting in a bunch of more radical people (and yes, many of the women carry those beliefs too) wouldn't be great for stability, they've also caused a bunch of problems there before and led Egypt to create their buffer zone and further caged them in.

It's sad but they're a hard group of refugees to take in, even all these supposed sympathizers based on Islam around them don't really want them, I think it would be hard to point out a single more self-destructive group of people.
 
Sucks too see so many innocent people continue to die. Such an absolute waste of life.

Fuck the Palestinian terrorists for all the violence they caused. They're murdering scumbags.

And Fuck Israel for bombing the Palestinians. They're murdering scumbags.

Fuck the biased antislamic and antisemite scumbags who are using this situation as fuel for their bigotry.
 
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https://news.sky.com/story/wembley-...to-be-lit-in-colours-of-israeli-flag-12983094

Normally I just roll my eyes at all this performative bull of lighting shit up. But it shows the double standard here with Israel amongst certain western organisations. They are refusing to light the wembley arch with Israeli colours cos they don't want to upset the terrorists it seems. That didn't seem to stop them when they did it after the french terrorist attack or Turkish terrorist attack or the terrorist war in Ukraine.
 
CharmingCharlie said:
https://news.sky.com/story/wembley-...to-be-lit-in-colours-of-israeli-flag-12983094

Normally I just roll my eyes at all this performative bull of lighting shit up. But it shows the double standard here with Israel amongst certain western organisations. They are refusing to light the wembley arch with Israeli colours cos they don't want to upset the terrorists it seems. That didn't seem to stop them when they did it after the french terrorist attack or Turkish terrorist attack or the terrorist war in Ukraine.
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Saw this and thought exactly the same
 
FunkMiller said:
I don't think I need to point out how reprehensible it is to conflate those two issues. What is wrong with you?
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Nothings wrong with me, ask the people who are terrorist sympathizers and doing everything possible to muddy the narrative so their hamas friends don't look so bad.
 
I should stop watching these telegram channel showing casualties from both sides.

FL3riW3.png
 
www.reuters.com

Israel fires back after Syrian shells land in Israeli territory -military

Israeli troops fired artillery and mortar shells toward Syria on Tuesday after a number of shells launched from its northern neighbour landed in open areas on Israeli territory, Israel's military said.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.reuters.com

Iran president, Saudi crown prince speak for first time since ties restored

Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman discussed the Palestinian-Israeli conflict on Wednesday, in the first telephone call between the two leaders since a China-brokered deal between Tehran and Riyadh to resume ties.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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It just saddens me that a conflict of a massive scale can happen in a blink of an eye. It's very disheartening and makes me fear for my own as I live in a country that has come close to conflict with another multiple times.
 
Same as back in the early days of the Ukraine War thread. It was important to establish that atrocities like Bucha actually took place, given the enemy propaganda attempts. But after that it's best not to stare into the abyss or try to force others to. There's a reason people get PTSD in war.
 
CharmingCharlie said:
https://news.sky.com/story/wembley-...to-be-lit-in-colours-of-israeli-flag-12983094

Normally I just roll my eyes at all this performative bull of lighting shit up. But it shows the double standard here with Israel amongst certain western organisations. They are refusing to light the wembley arch with Israeli colours cos they don't want to upset the terrorists it seems. That didn't seem to stop them when they did it after the french terrorist attack or Turkish terrorist attack or the terrorist war in Ukraine.
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Many country or city politicians dont outright condemn any big terrorist attacks, since 99% of the attacks are linked to crazy mid east insurgents willing to blow up cars, kill foreigners. And the crazy followers do what they are doing now in western cities (anti-Israel chants in public). Lets face it, it's a volatile group of loud people who dont give a shit. where you never know if bombs or flag burning will happen, so city mayors and country leaders got to watch what they say or else they'll get a target on their people.

That's why Israel going full ape shit with counter attacks is the best way to push back. All the back and forth skirmishes you hear about in the news here and there means zero. That can go on forever. But make a real stand and it can make a real difference. It's kind of like WWII. USA and Japan going balls deep in Pacific battles with a ton of ships and island wars. US drops a couple nukes and suddenly Japan waves the white flag. If the US didnt do that who knows how long the Pacific battles would go on for.
 
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There are videos of interviews with the protesting people in Canada where they don´t even know about the Hamas attacks. They are just on the street to protest against Israel.
 
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