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[Stitch]

 

[DeafTourette]

"Prison" "Deprived of basic human rights"

I can't hear that shit anymore. It's simply not true.

It's simplified, overromanticized bullshit.

Question...

Should people continue to be punished for an election mistake made 16 years ago? They voted once and never again. They can't VOTE Hamas out... Some folks don't seem to get that.

Another question: HOW do they get out from under the thumb of Hamas? With what resources are they to? Hamas are NOT civilized. They used Palestinians as human shields, as cannon fodder, as props to cry crocodile tears to the international community... They terrorize Palestinians as well as Israelis. These civilians have NO freedom in Gaza (West Bank is a slightly different story)... Hamas made sure of that because 1. Israel needs to feel safe and 2. Hamas are dictatorial motherfuckers...

3. Even with IDF telling folks to flee .. WHERE to? The population is half kids... I don't mean 18 yr olds... I mean ages 14 and under. HOW do they escape? HOW do they get anywhere safe? Egypt won't let them in... They no longer have running water or electric. Can't get any more texts or whatever. Unfortunately because it's now war and Hamas is to blame...

The only people who have suffered til now have been civilians (I have no idea if any IDF soldiers were killed when Hamas started all this shit Friday). Israeli and Palestinians. Hamas starts brutalizing israelis and then war protocols are put in place to bring out the Hamas motherfuckers... who in turn tell Palestinians to disregard any warnings by IDF. Probably lest they get killed or "dirtied" by Hamas.

Gaza IS an open air prison... But because of the actions of Hamas and the Palestinians suffer for it. In desperation they chose Hamas 16 years ago ... And are paying the price still. The cycle is endless.

 

[IDKFA]

 

[FullMetalx117]

Definitely a failure of humanity what’s going on. All this advancement in technology, intelligence, etc. And war is more brutal than ever. Can’t even say efficient really, it’s not precise. I would’ve thought maybe with all the communication/satellite tech and availability of allies tech, perhaps people directly responsible could be found. But it’s still too hard…I just hope the Hamas leaders that are directly responsible are not literally just chilling in qatar or Russia or Iran in a 5 star suite, as Gaza falls.

Strategically I think Israel needs to be careful in terms of popular world support. Now that they have had the upper hand for a while, and obviously way more powerful weapons that can hit anything (and not precise), the sheer number and velocity of Palestinian victims (who half are kids) media will outnumber ones coming from Israeli side. They need to finish this quick.

 

[Madserb2023]

"Prison" "Deprived of basic human rights"

I can't hear that shit anymore. It's simply not true.

It's simplified, overromanticized bullshit.

All this does is make the Palestinians out to be uniquely savage and they don't realise it. There are plenty of oppressed people in the world. You have millions of muslims in China that are not in an open air prison but actual re education camps yet I have yet to hear Muslims in China go into a village and just behead Chinese kids.

 

[ADiTAR]

I want to know from you, what would you do if you and your family and many others in your country were expelled from their homes, killed, your children killed, your ancestors killed, your land stolen? What would be your response?

Ah, the tried and true I don't have a real answer so I will ask you.

First of all, their land wasn't stolen, their land was won.

If you knew the history you would know. But I'll repeat just because it's been so many pages ago. After WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman empire the UK/France (the winners) divided the area of Palestine to countries, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria. And promised the Zionists that they'll be able to get back to their ancestral home. In 1945 after the Holocaust and the world realizing they have a Jew problem it decided to give us that home, they divided the area that was left from Palestine into Israel and whatever nation the arabs are gonna get. The Arab nations around like Egypt and Jordan didn't want that so they riled up the Arabs in Palestine to war, and in 1948 when the declaration of Israel happened they went to war the next day. Israel won. To the victor the spoils.

Since then there were more wars and more land was won by Israel, some of it it gave back like the Sinai area to make peace with Egypt.

Fast forward to when we had Gaza and the West Bank. Israel suffered from suicide bombing thru the 90s and 2000s, and build a huge wall across the West Bank that did stop those bombings. Gaza was then pulled out of in 2005, they rooted out all the settlers there. No army, no thing left. Just Gazans for themselves. Gaza sits on a beautiful area of beach, could've been the Makao of the middle east. The Gazans chose Hamas as their leader, so this is where we are.

Is the situation perfect? no. But if Gaza and the West Bank laid down their weapons, they would never need to deal with Israel ever. If Israel laid down its weapons there would be no Israel.

Palestinians were also offered peace 3 times, keep in mind they can't offer anything at the table besides peace and quiet, and they rejected everything. And Israel gave them almost everything.

But again, I would love to hear your solution, because it doesn't seem like you have one.

EDIT: sorry, my response would be move the fuck on and live my own fucking life. Stop dwelling on the past. That's what Jews did all their fucking lives. We were victims but never let ourselves be the victims.

 

[cormack12]

Regardless of the nuances we can freely discuss away from prejudice, I've never sensed such an acceptance of collateral damage.

Those hostages are not bargaining power, and we've already seen what these animal do to hostages. The human shield of Palestinian civilians is largely having upturned noses directed at it. It's weird to see.

When have those citizens began to blow themselves up? Before or after they were put in a prison and deprived of basic human rights? Maybe first look in the mirror? Look at number of casualties in the last and tell me that's OK?

You cant pre-emptively throw yourself on the ban sword for holding opinions that are held on a narrow focus. No one is saying 'rrawwwrrr, let's go kill all civilians'. But there is an acceptance that there is a threshold of collateral damage in war. Using the tactics Hamas are, it will be disproportionate in this conflict.

I think it would help clarify your opinion if you explained from which point in time you are framing your wider context. The region and its history is a quagmire of blood and conflict and ownership. Most phrases like yours take your stance from a very small period in that significant time period that suits your point of view. Much of the discussion now is reaction based, focused purely on the cause and consequence of this major terrorist attack, against the backdrop of imminent normalisation and the years of persistent magpieing by Hamas.

Those posts as well are all from 2014, when the 'woke loonies', were on the charge until 2017? I think that timeline is right, someone else might confirm if the mods were already rogue by then. Mods and people which then went to era......

 

[cormack12]

Lol what bullshit. Who just signs stuff without reading it?

No wonder we had a mortgage meltdown.

 

[Peggies]

Question...

Should people continue to be punished for an election mistake made 16 years ago? They voted once and never again. They can't VOTE Hamas out... Some folks don't seem to get that.

Another question: HOW do they get out from under the thumb of Hamas? With what resources are they to? Hamas are NOT civilized. They used Palestinians as human shields, as cannon fodder, as props to cry crocodile tears to the international community... They terrorize Palestinians as well as Israelis. These civilians have NO freedom in Gaza (West Bank is a slightly different story)... Hamas made sure of that because 1. Israel needs to feel safe and 2. Hamas are dictatorial motherfuckers...

3. Even with IDF telling folks to flee .. WHERE to? The population is half kids... I don't mean 18 yr olds... I mean ages 14 and under. HOW do they escape? HOW do they get anywhere safe? Egypt won't let them in... They no longer have running water or electric. Can't get any more texts or whatever. Unfortunately because it's now war and Hamas is to blame...

The only people who have suffered til now have been civilians (I have no idea if any IDF soldiers were killed when Hamas started all this shit Friday). Israeli and Palestinians. Hamas starts brutalizing israelis and then war protocols are put in place to bring out the Hamas motherfuckers... who in turn tell Palestinians to disregard any warnings by IDF. Probably lest they get killed or "dirtied" by Hamas.

Gaza IS an open air prison... But because of the actions of Hamas and the Palestinians suffer for it. In desperation they chose Hamas 16 years ago ... And are paying the price still. The cycle is endless.

These civilians have been receiving millions and millions of €s bei EU to build a desalinisations plant so they can have their own drinking water by using sea water.
Well guess what. There's no desalinisation plant whatsoever. Instead they bought weapons to fight Israel - the "evil occupying power" that was stupid enough to supply them with drinking water.

Must be a lot easier to hate and blame someone instead of fucking act and do something to make a change.

 

[Madserb2023]

I want to know from you, what would you do if you and your family and many others in your country were expelled from their homes, killed, your children killed, your ancestors killed, your land stolen? What would be your response?

Not particularly happy but that's what happens when you lose a war which they did on several occasions. Have you noticed that Germany's borders aren't what they were before WW2 or WW1. Have you seen Strassbourg, doesn't look very French. The Germans lost huge amounts of land after WW1 and many Germans found themselves in a foreign country and many were deported back to Germany. Guess what, Hitler used that for justification. I get the anger but it doesn't justify Jack s**t.

 

[cormack12]

These civilians have been receiving millions and millions of €s bei EU to build a desalinisations plant so they can have their own drinking water by using sea water.
Well guess what. There's no desalinisation plant whatsoever. Instead they bought weapons to fight Israel - the "evil occupying power" that was stupid enough to supply them with drinking water.

Must be a lot easier to hate and blame someone instead of fucking act and do something to make a change.

 

[FullMetalx117]

These civilians have been receiving millions and millions of €s bei EU to build a desalinisations plant so they can have their own drinking water by using sea water.
Well guess what. There's no desalinisation plant whatsoever. Instead they bought weapons to fight Israel - the "evil occupying power" that was stupid enough to supply them with drinking water.

Must be a lot easier to hate and blame someone instead of fucking act and do something to make a change.

It’s almost as if…a change can’t be made…because there was one vote…16 years ago. And then half the population are kids who can’t vote. And then half the remaining voting population are women who are majorly suppressed to vote if they’re allowed at all. And then the remaining voting male population that can vote and do something, they’re under threat by a crazy lunatic gang who were supplied weapons by who knows and funded by who knows that are running everything there. Y’all want kids, the few who may have been lucky to not be brainwashed, to stand up and fight back?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Another question: HOW do they get out from under the thumb of Hamas? With what resources are they to? Hamas are NOT civilized. They used Palestinians as human shields, as cannon fodder, as props to cry crocodile tears to the international community... They terrorize Palestinians as well as Israelis. These civilians have NO freedom in Gaza (West Bank is a slightly different story)... Hamas made sure of that because 1. Israel needs to feel safe and 2. Hamas are dictatorial motherfuckers..

I don't know, maybe rather than protesting against Israel, they should have rebelled against Hamas? I would not be surprised that for a lot of people in Gaza, they have more issues with Israel rather than Hamas. We saw those videos where a parent was sending a child to an armed israeli guard asking his child to throw rocks and so on.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

Look I feel very bad for the innocent children in Palestina. When I see videos like the one above how they are indoctrinated it makes me sick and I'm scared these kids are already a lost generation.

I understand the rage Israel is feeling, but there are some innocents there and I think we need to find a way to get them out before they rightfully bulldoze the place. Only way I can think of is actually only allowing children and women through. The men would just cause issues everywhere else they are allowed to go, just like they are already doing everywhere in the west. If there is anything the west doesn't need more of, it's middle aged arabic/muslim men that are filled with hatred towards us and try to impose their backwards way of living everywhere they go.

I'm sad when I see my 3,5 year old go to school and 10 out of 12 of her class are pretty much foreigners with parents who have clearly different values on how to raise their children.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Look I feel very bad for the innocent children in Palestina. When I see videos like the one above how they are indoctrinated it makes me sick and I'm scared these kids are already a lost generation.

I understand the rage Israel is feeling, but there are some innocents there and I think we need to find a way to get them out before they rightfully bulldoze the place. Only way I can think of is actually only allowing children and women through. The men would just cause issues everywhere else they are allowed to go, just like they are already doing everywhere in the west. If there is anything the west doesn't need more of, it's middle aged arabic/muslim men that are filled with hatred towards us and try to impose their backwards way of living everywhere they go.

I'm sad when I see my 3,5 year old go to school and 10 out of 12 of her class are pretty much foreigners with parents who have clearly different values on how to raise their children.

Getting the children and women out is the best plan.

 

[DeafTourette]

These civilians have been receiving millions and millions of €s bei EU to build a desalinisations plant so they can have their own drinking water by using sea water.
Well guess what. There's no desalinisation plant whatsoever. Instead they bought weapons to fight Israel - the "evil occupying power" that was stupid enough to supply them with drinking water.

Must be a lot easier to hate and blame someone instead of fucking act and do something to make a change.

Who was I blaming all throughout my post?

Hint: it wasn't Israel.

 

[hyperbertha]

Don't care if I get banned, but not trying to get. If this is an echo chamber, then better not to be here. If he supports justifications for kiilong innocent people, then there's no reason to be here at all.

Yes, it does.

Don't understand the part about claims. Where have I said something like that? I've clearly stated that what Hamas did to the innocent is not acceptable to me. Also said that doesn't justify what IDF is and has been doing for so long to also innocent Palestinians.

When have those citizens began to blow themselves up? Before or after they were put in a prison and deprived of basic human rights? Maybe first look in the mirror? Look at number of casualties in the last and tell me that's OK?

The Palestinians were offered two state solutions multiple times. Rejected. They openly say they want all Jews eradicated. You have palestinian diaspora celebrating hamas atrocity. What should the idf do? Give the solution or stfu.

 

[Boozeroony]

Look I feel very bad for the innocent children in Palestina. When I see videos like the one above how they are indoctrinated it makes me sick and I'm scared these kids are already a lost generation.

I understand the rage Israel is feeling, but there are some innocents there and I think we need to find a way to get them out before they rightfully bulldoze the place. Only way I can think of is actually only allowing children and women through. The men would just cause issues everywhere else they are allowed to go, just like they are already doing everywhere in the west. If there is anything the west doesn't need more of, it's middle aged arabic/muslim men that are filled with hatred towards us and try to impose their backwards way of living everywhere they go.

I'm sad when I see my 3,5 year old go to school and 10 out of 12 of her class are pretty much foreigners with parents who have clearly different values on how to raise their children.

I am a teacher and have classes where 50% has a muslim background. The contempt they sometimes show towards me, especially the girls somehow, makes me feel frustrated. It is very hard to make contact with them.

 

[DeafTourette]

I don't know, maybe rather than protesting against Israel, they should have rebelled against Hamas? I would not be surprised that for a lot of people in Gaza, they have more issues with Israel rather than Hamas. We saw those videos where a parent was sending a child to an armed israeli guard asking his child to throw rocks and so on.

Again I ask... With what resources? Half of them are CHILDREN... where do they get the funds from? Sesame Street? HOW are they supposed to navigate arms dealers and international despots to gain access? Surely you don't mean the elderly who are basically adult children to do the dirty work?

You keep saying stuff but either ignorant of the reality or think anyone can do anything without resources.

"Yes, rebel against Hamas while you have no heavy artillery and weigh less than a buck 10. Yes, you children will be the new resistance and generals to fight against the better armed, more resources having, more experienced, more ruthless and animalistic Hamas. Get 'er done!"

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

I am a teacher and have classes where 50% has a muslim background. The contempt they sometimes show towards me, especially the girls somehow, makes me feel frustrated. It is very hard to make contact with them.

Yes I know. They generally seem to also have the mindset of 'I dropped of my kid, (s)he's your problem now'. They don't care about the teacher / class at all. When parents are invited, me and my wife and maybe 2 other people are the only ones there... I'd quit my job as teacher probably if that was my job. Must be so depressing.

 

[UnNamed]

First of all, their land wasn't stolen, their land was won.

 

[BadBurger]

Don't care if I get banned, but not trying to get. If this is an echo chamber, then better not to be here. If he supports justifications for kiilong innocent people, then there's no reason to be here at all.

Yes, it does.

Don't understand the part about claims. Where have I said something like that? I've clearly stated that what Hamas did to the innocent is not acceptable to me. Also said that doesn't justify what IDF is and has been doing for so long to also innocent Palestinians.

When have those citizens began to blow themselves up? Before or after they were put in a prison and deprived of basic human rights? Maybe first look in the mirror? Look at number of casualties in the last and tell me that's OK?

Has anyone been justifying the killing of innocents? I don't meticulously read every comment in the thread, but I haven't seen it. I think we all agree that it sucks that Israel pretty much has no choice. Hamas hides within civilian housing. They surround themselves with human shields. They took Israeli and foreign nationals hostage to serve as human shields.

The world isn't like some network television spy show or a video game. Israel doesn't have a bunch of operators with superhuman like abilities and exotic tech to track down every terrorist and snipe them or kill only terrorists so that all of the innocent civilians can go home unscathed at the end of the day after sharing a tender moment with an IDF soldier. This is the real world. Most of those Hamas militants are bad fucking hombres, well equipped, well versed and trained in guerilla and terrorist tactics.

I don't type any of this from some position of hate against anyone or any group. I don't blame any Palestinian who had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks and never voted for Hamas. I'm not exactly known to be a hawkish person on these boards, after all. But it comes down to this: we all know it's shitty, but you have to just accept the reality of the situation. There's only one way to get rid of Hamas and it's not going to look like some fantasy Hollywood story.

 

[Havoc2049]

Don't care if I get banned, but not trying to get. If this is an echo chamber, then better not to be here. If he supports justifications for kiilong innocent people, then there's no reason to be here at all.

Yes, it does.

Don't understand the part about claims. Where have I said something like that? I've clearly stated that what Hamas did to the innocent is not acceptable to me. Also said that doesn't justify what IDF is and has been doing for so long to also innocent Palestinians.

When have those citizens began to blow themselves up? Before or after they were put in a prison and deprived of basic human rights? Maybe first look in the mirror? Look at number of casualties in the last and tell me that's OK?

Come on dude, you're argument and accusations are either extremely naive or disingenuous, and we weren't born yesterday. A modern military commander isn't going to launch a jet worth tens of millions of dollars and armed with missiles worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and risk their career and possible prison time to take out a playground, that has zero strategic or military value. Strikes are launched against high value targets that will help them win the war against Hamas. If Hamas launches a rocket from a vehicle parked in the middle of a crowded downtown area, then that vehicle becomes a viable military target. If Hamas launches a missile at Israel from the top of an apartment building, then it just became a viable military target. The only one to blame for civilian casualties in Gaza is Hamas.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Again I ask... With what resources? Half of them are CHILDREN... where do they get the funds from? Sesame Street? HOW are they supposed to navigate arms dealers and international despots to gain access? Surely you don't mean the elderly who are basically adult children to do the dirty work?

How Hamas is getting their support and cannon fodder? All those terrorists do not pop up out of thin air. They did not arrive on ships from the seas, they grew up in Gaza.

So far, as we have seen, some parents are fine with indoctrination of their children with hate towards Israel.

 

[Boozeroony]

Yes I know. They generally seem to also have the mindset of 'I dropped of my kid, (s)he's your problem now'. They don't care about the teacher / class at all. When parents are invited, me and my wife and maybe 2 other people are the only ones there... I'd quit my job as teacher probably if that was my job. Must be so depressing.

It is still very rewarding. Kids can change and open up. If that happens, it is worth it and really makes a difference.

Plus, most kids are just fine.

 

[Dice]

I see plenty of people in this thread who are willing to explain why they hold their positions and completely open to suggestions for an alternative approach and what reasoning may be behind them. I see critics who are haughtily dismissing them without actually detailing what is wrong with the positions and not answering any questions about what alternatives they would suggest.

That is called trolling.

 

[FullMetalx117]

How Hamas is getting their support and cannon fodder? All those terrorists do not pop up out of thin air. They did not arrive on ships from the seas, they grew up in Gaza.

So far, as we have seen, some parents are fine with indoctrination of their children with hate towards Israel.

And there’s a bunch of western hippies that end up going there too. Don’t think a significant portion of Hamas is even Palestinian. So yes some literally did come from the sea and air

Edit: when I say western hippies - I mean the ones raised in the west, and still feel some weirdo calling that makes them want to join these groups. Very scary

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

And there’s a bunch of western hippies that end up going there too. Don’t think a significant portion of Hamas is even Palestinian. So yes some literally did come from the sea and air

I would not be surprised if a significant portion of Hamas higher-ups is not even living there. Wasn't there video of some of their children having luxury life in Europe? (Or was it Assad? Don't remember).

 

[Peggies]

Getting the children and women out is the best plan.

Getting them out ok. And putting them where? How about Egypt? Or maybe Katar? They share the same values. They could hate "The West" or "The Jews" or "America" all day long.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I would not be surprised if a significant portion of Hamas higher-ups is not even living there. Wasn't there video of some of their children having luxury life in Europe? (Or was it Assad? Don't remember).

You likely saw correct. Hamas is very friendly with Qatar - who owns the Shard and PSG. Hamas leaders and their children probably went to some of the games

 

[FullMetalx117]

Getting them out ok. And putting them where? How about Egypt? Or maybe Katar? They share the same values. They could hate "The West" or "The Jews" or "America" all day long.

Honestly, imo it should be qatar. The west should force them. We have the leverage. Threaten their investments

 

[Peggies]

Who was I blaming all throughout my post?

Hint: it wasn't Israel.

Mea culpa. I'm just so irritated by this whole WW III shit.

 

[hyperbertha]

Ah you edited your troll post removing the part where you accuse him of not knowing what he is talking about. Got cold feet? Lol

 

[Toots]

I have yet to hear Muslims in China go into a village and just behead Chinese kids

As a matter of fact...

 

[ADiTAR]

Someday you'll gather the courage to read the history.

 

[Toots]

Again I ask... With what resources? Half of them are CHILDREN... where do they get the funds from? Sesame Street? HOW are they supposed to navigate arms dealers and international despots to gain access? Surely you don't mean the elderly who are basically adult children to do the dirty work?

You keep saying stuff but either ignorant of the reality or think anyone can do anything without resources.

"Yes, rebel against Hamas while you have no heavy artillery and weigh less than a buck 10. Yes, you children will be the new resistance and generals to fight against the better armed, more resources having, more experienced, more ruthless and animalistic Hamas. Get 'er done!"

They could stop doing what hamas order them to do.
They could say "i don't want to kill a human being, so i won't"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance

 

[Ogbert]

I see the ‘Believe victims’ crowd are pivoting to ‘unless they’re Jewish’.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I see the ‘Believe victims’ crowd are pivoting to ‘unless they’re Jewish’.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

It is more pathetic that people were accusing people over some word, sign rumor or whatever and were trying to cancel them, yet now unless the photos of dead children on the full display and analyzed by everybody - it did not happen.

 

[Madserb2023]

The Jews did not steal the land, because that area has always had Jews living there. Jerusalem was majority Jewish by the mid 19th century when it was part of the Ottoman empire. When people say the Jews should give thr territory back, what territory? Not all the Jews left.
After the Ottoman empire collapsed, Jewish migration massively increased and over time the demographics began to change so that the Jews would be a majority in some regions. It's like a city in America being 90% white but is now is majority black or Hispanic through demographics. Those Jewish regions then wanted the the ability to form an independent State like Kosovo which they fought a war and won.
Palestine was not a state at the time and the state of Israel was founded before the Palestinian State in the 1960s. Reminds of the Falklands where Argentina claims it even though it was Bristish territory before Argentina existed. This isn't about justifying anything, but people are ignorant.

 

[ADiTAR]

I would not be surprised if a significant portion of Hamas higher-ups is not even living there. Wasn't there video of some of their children having luxury life in Europe? (Or was it Assad? Don't remember).

Yeah, Hamas leaders live in penthouses in Qatar while their kids are driving Lamborghinis.

 

[MadPanda]

Ah, the tried and true I don't have a real answer so I will ask you.

First of all, their land wasn't stolen, their land was won.

If you knew the history you would know. But I'll repeat just because it's been so many pages ago. After WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman empire the UK/France (the winners) divided the area of Palestine to countries, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria. And promised the Zionists that they'll be able to get back to their ancestral home. In 1945 after the Holocaust and the world realizing they have a Jew problem it decided to give us that home, they divided the area that was left from Palestine into Israel and whatever nation the arabs are gonna get. The Arab nations around like Egypt and Jordan didn't want that so they riled up the Arabs in Palestine to war, and in 1948 when the declaration of Israel happened they went to war the next day. Israel won. To the victor the spoils.

Since then there were more wars and more land was won by Israel, some of it it gave back like the Sinai area to make peace with Egypt.

Fast forward to when we had Gaza and the West Bank. Israel suffered from suicide bombing thru the 90s and 2000s, and build a huge wall across the West Bank that did stop those bombings. Gaza was then pulled out of in 2005, they rooted out all the settlers there. No army, no thing left. Just Gazans for themselves. Gaza sits on a beautiful area of beach, could've been the Makao of the middle east. The Gazans chose Hamas as their leader, so this is where we are.

Is the situation perfect? no. But if Gaza and the West Bank laid down their weapons, they would never need to deal with Israel ever. If Israel laid down its weapons there would be no Israel.

Palestinians were also offered peace 3 times, keep in mind they can't offer anything at the table besides peace and quiet, and they rejected everything. And Israel gave them almost everything.

But again, I would love to hear your solution, because it doesn't seem like you have one.

EDIT: sorry, my response would be move the fuck on and live my own fucking life. Stop dwelling on the past. That's what Jews did all their fucking lives. We were victims but never let ourselves be the victims.

So whoever wins gets their actions justified? Sorry but I can't accept that. In that line of though, Crimea is Russian as they won it. And many other things.

Yeah, your solution would be great if you would let Palestinians live their life and not evict them forcibly from their homes while they're trying to live their life. That would really be an amazing solution if Israelis behaved like that but sadly they aren't.

Palestinians should've accepted two state solution decades ago.

Regardless of the nuances we can freely discuss away from prejudice, I've never sensed such an acceptance of collateral damage.

Those hostages are not bargaining power, and we've already seen what these animal do to hostages. The human shield of Palestinian civilians is largely having upturned noses directed at it. It's weird to see.



You cant pre-emptively throw yourself on the ban sword for holding opinions that are held on a narrow focus. No one is saying 'rrawwwrrr, let's go kill all civilians'. But there is an acceptance that there is a threshold of collateral damage in war. Using the tactics Hamas are, it will be disproportionate in this conflict.

I think it would help clarify your opinion if you explained from which point in time you are framing your wider context. The region and its history is a quagmire of blood and conflict and ownership. Most phrases like yours take your stance from a very small period in that significant time period that suits your point of view. Much of the discussion now is reaction based, focused purely on the cause and consequence of this major terrorist attack, against the backdrop of imminent normalisation and the years of persistent magpieing by Hamas.

Those posts as well are all from 2014, when the 'woke loonies', were on the charge until 2017? I think that timeline is right, someone else might confirm if the mods were already rogue by then. Mods and people which then went to era......

EviLore was in charge back then as he is now.

Not particularly happy but that's what happens when you lose a war which they did on several occasions. Have you noticed that Germany's borders aren't what they were before WW2 or WW1. Have you seen Strassbourg, doesn't look very French. The Germans lost huge amounts of land after WW1 and many Germans found themselves in a foreign country and many were deported back to Germany. Guess what, Hitler used that for justification. I get the anger but it doesn't justify Jack s**t.

The Palestinians were offered two state solutions multiple times. Rejected. They openly say they want all Jews eradicated. You have palestinian diaspora celebrating hamas atrocity. What should the idf do? Give the solution or stfu.

Rejecting two state solution was a mistake. IDF shouldn't commit war crimes. I don't condone their diaspora celebrating war crimes. Still doesn't justify war crimes committed by IDF.

Has anyone been justifying the killing of innocents? I don't meticulously read every comment in the thread, but I haven't seen it. I think we all agree that it sucks that Israel pretty much has no choice. Hamas hides within civilian housing. They surround themselves with human shields. They took Israeli and foreign nationals hostage to serve as human shields.

The world isn't like some network television spy show or a video game. Israel doesn't have a bunch of operators with superhuman like abilities and exotic tech to track down every terrorist and snipe them or kill only terrorists so that all of the innocent civilians can go home unscathed at the end of the day after sharing a tender moment with an IDF soldier. This is the real world. Most of those Hamas militants are bad fucking hombres, well equipped, well versed and trained in guerilla and terrorist tactics.

I don't type any of this from some position of hate against anyone or any group. I don't blame any Palestinian who had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks and never voted for Hamas. I'm not exactly known to be a hawkish person on these boards, after all. But it comes down to this: we all know it's shitty, but you have to just accept the reality of the situation. There's only one way to get rid of Hamas and it's not going to look like some fantasy Hollywood story.

Unfortunately, they have. Very mod here is justifying that ad simply "war".

Come on dude, you're argument and accusations are either extremely naive or disingenuous, and we weren't born yesterday. A modern military commander isn't going to launch a jet worth tens of millions of dollars and armed with missiles worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and risk their career and possible prison time to take out a playground, that has zero strategic or military value. Strikes are launched against high value targets that will help them win the war against Hamas. If Hamas launches a rocket from a vehicle parked in the middle of a crowded downtown area, then that vehicle becomes a viable military target. If Hamas launches a missile at Israel from the top of an apartment building, then it just became a viable military target. The only one to blame for civilian casualties in Gaza is Hamas.

IDF commanders aren't risking anything, they aren't going to jail regardless of what they do. What world are you living in? Who's going to hold them accountable? The only one to blame for civilian casualties are those committing them. Stop justifying that and stop dehumanizing people.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm just glad the left is using the term baby as much as they have. If pictures were produced they'd probably retort back to "it's really just a clump of cells, not a baby".

I don't think I need to point out how reprehensible it is to conflate those two issues. What is wrong with you?

 

[cormack12]

EviLore was in charge back then as he is now.

Ah I see. Alex Jones has entered the chat.jpg

Come on, I was trying to have an honest discussion with you. At what point in the complex history of the region we're discussing are you taking your stance on? What's the first major incident adjacent to where you've decided to take your point of view from? Post 1960? Post wwii? Post wwi? Pre wwi? Crusades?

 

[ADiTAR]

So whoever wins gets their actions justified? Sorry but I can't accept that. In that line of though, Crimea is Russian as they won it. And many other things.

Yeah, your solution would be great if you would let Palestinians live their life and not evict them forcibly from their homes while they're trying to live their life. That would really be an amazing solution if Israelis behaved like that but sadly they aren't.

Crimea is Russian and they won it, yes. Have you seen Ukraine try to get it back? the world?

If Palestinians lived their lives and laid down their weapons, we both know, I hope, that Israel wouldn't need to go in and bust terrorists cells. Israel would have left them alone, because trust me, nobody wants their shit (including every one of the 50 Muslims states). They don't just evict people from their homes without a reason. I do agree that the settlements are wrong and don't help our cause, and are now part of the reason why this massacre happened as most of the army went to guard them.

This endless cycle is only a cycle because they live in the past. Time to accept things how they are, and move on. Not easy, but doable. We Jews did it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Don't care if I get banned, but not trying to get. If this is an echo chamber, then better not to be here. If he supports justifications for kiilong innocent people, then there's no reason to be here at all.

Yes, it does.

Don't understand the part about claims. Where have I said something like that? I've clearly stated that what Hamas did to the innocent is not acceptable to me. Also said that doesn't justify what IDF is and has been doing for so long to also innocent Palestinians.

When have those citizens began to blow themselves up? Before or after they were put in a prison and deprived of basic human rights? Maybe first look in the mirror? Look at number of casualties in the last and tell me that's OK?

I don't think you should be banned, but I do suggest you should spend some time looking through the entire history of the conflict. Even just a brief overview will provide better context about what is happening.

For instance, the Israeli approach has worsened and worsened towards the Palestinians over the decades. It's important to recognise why that has happened. They do indeed treat Palestinians inhumanely. But you have to ask yourself why?

What is is about the situation in the middle east over the last 75 years that would have caused such a degeneration in Israel's approach to the Palestinians?

If you can understand that, you'll have a better grasp on why things are the way they are now.

I want to know from you, what would you do if you and your family and many others in your country were expelled from their homes, killed, your children killed, your ancestors killed, your land stolen? What would be your response?

Another interesting point. Again... study the conflict properly. Study the history. Understand it. Because everyone involved sure as hell does, but I don't think many people forming opinions about it do.

 

[ADiTAR]

I don't think you should be banned, but I do suggest you should spend some time looking through the entire history of the conflict. Even just a brief overview will provide better context about what is happening.

For instance, the Israeli approach has worsened and worsened towards the Palestinians over the decades. It's important to recognise why that has happened. They do indeed treat Palestinians inhumanely. But you have to ask yourself why?

What is is about the situation in the middle east over the last 75 years that would have caused such a degeneration in Israel's approach to the Palestinians?

If you can understand that, you'll have a better grasp on why things are the way they are now.

I also want to point out that some of those terrorists who came to slaughter, were given work permits to come and work in the Kibutz they murdered. They knew the people, they didn't care.

Israel always tried to give, and it always blows up in our face. People want to believe in the good of other people, but now we know, there's no humanity there.

 

[FunkMiller]

I also want to point out that some of those terrorists who came to slaughter, were given work permits to come and work in the Kibutz they murdered. They knew the people, they didn't care.

Israel always tried to give, and it always blows up in our face. People want to believe in the good of other people, but now we know, there's no humanity there.

I will roundly condemn any Israeli action that targets innocent Palestinians... but I will also understand it. The context for it. The persons ultimately responsible for it. The backdrop against which it takes place. Israel did not start out with this level of animosity towards the Palestinians. The reasons why it's got as bad as it has is not really understood by many of those who condemn Israel's actions.

 

[Madserb2023]

So whoever wins gets their actions justified? Sorry but I can't accept that. In that line of though, Crimea is Russian as they won it. And many other things.

Yeah, your solution would be great if you would let Palestinians live their life and not evict them forcibly from their homes while they're trying to live their life. That would really be an amazing solution if Israelis behaved like that but sadly they aren't.

Palestinians should've accepted two state solution decades ago.



EviLore was in charge back then as he is now.




Rejecting two state solution was a mistake. IDF shouldn't commit war crimes. I don't condone their diaspora celebrating war crimes. Still doesn't justify war crimes committed by IDF.

Unfortunately, they have. Very mod here is justifying that ad simply "war".


IDF commanders aren't risking anything, they aren't going to jail regardless of what they do. What world are you living in? Who's going to hold them accountable? The only one to blame for civilian casualties are those committing them. Stop justifying that and stop dehumanizing people.

It's not about justifying anything, it's about putting things in context. For comparison, Northern Ireland is part of Uk because of the civil war that took place. Due to the faming and millions of Irish people leaving, the North became almost completely deserted and was subsequently settled by the Scottish/Englush and overtime became culturally different. I can see why the Irish weren't happy but that is the reality of what just happened and the IRA were not justified in their response to just kill civilians in Northen Ireland. You can't change the past. Losing territory to war and demographics has happened to almost every country in the world. The only reason there was peace is because the IRA agreed to put down their weapons. You and me both know Hamas will never do that.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I think the main problem is that Israel returned the land it won in the wars. The moment arab states declared that Israel had no rights to exist, it should have never conceded anything back. I have always believed that those lands would be better under Israeli governorship.

 

[hyperbertha]

Rejecting two state solution was a mistake. IDF shouldn't commit war crimes. I don't condone their diaspora celebrating war crimes. Still doesn't justify war crimes committed by IDF.

They rejected because that is their nature. Palestinians do not want to coexist with a different religion.
And as for idf actions, what do you suggest they do?