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[XXL]

Wouldn't shock me (as I have said before) if we get a pretty big next gen Xbox leak before Pro launches just to attempt to cast even more doubt.

This would be hilarious.

If so, being this reactionary says alot about why they change direction every 5 mins.

 

[Kerotan]

That’s a pretty nice GPU. It’s a shame Sony didn’t improve the CPU much, since that’s a bottleneck for a lot of 30fps games.

They don't to because the price would then be €900 and it would leave less room for the PS6 to get a big upgrade in 3 or 4 year's.

 

[Ashamam]

I just can't get past the facial expression. Just had a tequila shot and lemon? Something a bit more intimate and invasive?

 

[omegasc]

It seems John and Richard are more favourable to the PS5 Pro between their DF Special and today, to me. Maybe they got hands on, or something like that?
I still believe 45% faster GPU perf + 2-3x ray tracing + PSSR is a big update, and can't wait to see more games demonstrating the benefits.

 

[Ashamam]

Wouldn't shock me (as I have said before) if we get a pretty big next gen Xbox leak before Pro launches just to attempt to cast even more doubt

Do you mean more layoffs? I jest I jest. I give it about a week since they just took out the garbage so have clear air of sorts.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Imagine pairing a modern supercar car chassis with a 1.5l Fiat engine from 2002 ... it makes no sense.

Extreme example, but the only reason you would do this is to keep costs down. There are zero performance benefits.

Idk man... I don't even know if I should bother getting into it with you as I feel you aren't interested in learning or knowing....

But that's just not how these things work.

 

[mckmas8808]

A lot of money tossed around to fuel doubts

Wouldn't shock me (as I have said before) if we get a pretty big next gen Xbox leak before Pro launches just to attempt to cast even more doubt

OH SNAP!!! That would be nuts!

 

[Dynasty8]

That’s a pretty nice GPU. It’s a shame Sony didn’t improve the CPU much, since that’s a bottleneck for a lot of 30fps games.

What do you think would be the closest CPU compared to the PS5 Pro processor?

 

[Gaiff]

Not gonna get dragged into the whole CPU limited argument again, but what I will say is that most things we say are CPU limited... aren't. They are just poorly optimized for a multi-core CPU. Has always been the case. In a manner of speaking, the PS5 would benefit more from a Zen2 CPU running at 4.5Ghz than from a Zen4 one running at 3.5Ghz in the current development climate.

But the fix is now to just brute force everything, that is what the misguided fix to "CPU bottlenecks" has become, just throw in the fastest CPU you can in there (in hindsight this has always been the PC thing). Whereas, if anyone takes anything more than a cursory glance at CPU usage and utilization charts while running their games, they would see what we should be doing is asking devs to optimize their shit better.

Gotham Knights is a good example. Two threads are taxed, rest of the CPU is asleep. Technically it’s CPU-limited, but we know it’s not because the CPU is too weak.

 

[XXL]

Imagine pairing a modern supercar car chassis with a 1.5l Fiat engine from 2002 ... it makes no sense.

Extreme example, but the only reason you would do this is to keep costs down. There are zero performance benefits.

I love when car references/metaphors become part of videogame console/PC discussions.

This is like the 4th one I've heard today.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I've never actually seen an honest comparison of that. Per DF themselves in real world cases like Forbidden West, they stated the PS5 was equiv to 2070 in performance mode

Digital Foundry - Horizon Forbidden West PC vs PS5: Enhanced Features, Performance Tests + Image Quality Boosts!

On a NVMe drive and a Ryzen 7 7800X3D, the game load a little faster on PC (5.95s) vs PS5 (6.83s) The game does use DirectStorage but not GPU decompression due to issues with driver scheduling and it being too restrictive Shader pre-compilation takes a minute on a Ryzen 5 3600 and 28.13 seconds...

www.neogaf.com

Horizon FW doesn't have any RT. That's why I said "with RT was ~2060 lvl"

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

DANG bro. You have








You had the information almost a year early!!! O_O

I told people here in like Spring of 2023 the 15-17 TF range as I had some loose notes on the silicone even before that

I will just never dump everything at once as I like to leave bread crumbs for those who follow along and have been here awhile

 

[Bitstream]

Imagine pairing a modern supercar car chassis with a 1.5l Fiat engine from 2002 ... it makes no sense.

Extreme example, but the only reason you would do this is to keep costs down. There are zero performance benefits.

Not entirely true, another reason you want to go for a similar CPU is to ensure backwards compatibility with the standard model, and make it easier on the devs.

 

[SolidQ]

Will very likely be the 8700 XT.

one RDNA 3.5, another RDNA4. Different architectures

I would say the closest is the 3070 Ti he used in the Wukong video today

Wukong is heavily pro NVIDIA optmizations. 7700XT is beating 4070 in some games(especially in lovely by nv fans Cyberpunk 2077), but PS5 pro have more bus and ram.

 

[Shadowstar39]

That changed? In the past with RT was ~2060 lvl, now it improved to 4060 lvl?

My thoughts exactly. It was that, and my 3060ti was hitting above it so don't know where this 4060 nonsense came from. 4060 wasn't even a thing in 2020.

 

[poppabk]

Have been saying around a 4070 ish levels of performance for close to a year now

In ray tracing though? We really think AMD caught up that quickly to Nvidia? Do we actually know that the advanced ray tracing isn't the same advanced ray tracing in 7000 series cards versus 6000? Because 2 - 3 times better doesn't sound like 4070 level.

 

[mckmas8808]

I told people here in like Spring of 2023 the 15-17 TF range as I had some loose notes on the silicone even before that

I will just never dump everything at once as I like to leave bread crumbs for those who follow along and have been here awhile

There's a group of us on GAF that's constantly picking up these bread crumbs you place on the ground every now and again.

 

[Gaiff]

My thoughts exactly. It was that, and my 3060ti was hitting above it so don't know where this 4060 nonsense came from. 4060 wasn't even a thing in 2020.

Your 3060 Ti is still faster than the 4060 lol.

 

[adamsapple]

Base PS5 is 4060 level

"Factoring out machine learning and ray tracing"

He's just talking about rasterisation.

 

[SonGoku]

Have been saying around a 4070 ish levels of performance for close to a year now

Going by performance specs +45% rendering and up to 3x Rays it seems on par with 3070Ti sans vram
Of course I'd happily be wrong if it turns out to be within spitting distance of the RTX 4070 which would make it quite good

 

[Mortisfacio]

Horizon FW doesn't have any RT. That's why I said "~2060"

Fair enough. I've seen varying comparisons from 2060-2080, but I more meant by "never seen an honest comparison of that" in regards to the 4060~. I've seen some fans claim it, but all benchmarks I've ever seen this gen show 20 series range comparisons.

 

[Skifi28]

Gotham Knights is a good example. Two threads are taxed, rest of the CPU is asleep. Technically it’s CPU-limited, but we know it’s not because the CPU is too weak.

It did get lots improvements though, no? At launch even beastly CPUs had issues while I believe it's mostly fine when I researched it a few months ago. Not that they would bother releasing a patch for an old game that flopped, but I do wonder if even the consoles could run it at 60-ish now (RT aside).

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Gotham Knights is a good example. Two threads are taxed, rest of the CPU is asleep. Technically it’s CPU-limited, but we know it’s not because the CPU is too weak.

Exactly.... and you can look at every single other game that is "CPU limited". Each core is averaging around 15-35% utilization most times, with one or two cores averaging 90%.

That is not a CPU bottle-neck, its poorly optimized code.

And this brings us to the kinda choice these console manufacturers have to make. Sony KNOWS this, they have tools that track every minute detail of how games are run on their platform. They know that the CPU is not weak, but they also know that devs are very unlikely going to make properly optimized code to fully take advantage of it.

Which brings us to the zero-sum solution. Even if you put in a Zen 4 CPU, in a console, you have a thermal envelope of around 200W for your APU to work with. The only way that CPU makes any kind of sense, is if you are clocking it as high as say 4.5Ghz -5Ghz. Or not whats the point, if it's clocked at the same 3.5Ghz, it would perform no differently from the Zen 2 one and still be "bottlenecked". Maybe you get about a 10-15% IPC architectural uplift, but even that is dependent on other things that impacts your APU design.

You can't run it at those clocks because of the thermal impact, and even worse, to even take advantage of a CPU that fast, you need more cache... which would mean you need a bigger chip, which would mean you either gimp GPU clocks to stay within your thermal window.....etc. I could go on.

The CPU seems to be ignored because its the one area that is underutilized on any platform.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Fair enough. I've seen varying comparisons from 2060-2080, but I more meant by "never seen an honest comparison of that" in regards to the 4060~. I've seen some fans claim it, but all benchmarks I've ever seen this gen show 20 series range comparisons.

Different optimizations/bad ports.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't really buy this whole CPU limited thing. Maybe last gen when they were garbage netbook CPUs the day they came out, but Zen 2 was a very capable gaming CPU when it came out and it's still in wide use today.If the point of this system is to run fidelity mode quality graphics at performance mode performance, then a better GPU + upscaling can get you there. Unless there are games that struggle to hit 30fps.

In ray tracing though? We really think AMD caught up that quickly to Nvidia? Do we actually know that the advanced ray tracing isn't the same advanced ray tracing in 7000 series cards versus 6000? Because 2 - 3 times better doesn't sound like 4070 level.

Probably not. They said its 2x-3x the base PS5. It's a major gain compared to the 45% better GPU, but the base PS5 ray tracing is really bad. I think the 4070 is probably more than 3x better than the PS5 at ray tracing, but I dunno.

 

[SolidQ]

In ray tracing though? We really think AMD caught up that quickly to Nvidia?

We have promotion AD Hogwart with RT, anyone can test same place on own PC with RTX 4060ti+ and compare which settings is PS5pro

but the base PS5 ray tracing is really bad.

Hard to say because we have examples like this

 

[rodrigolfp]

Zen 2 was a very capable gaming CPU when it came out

Full Zen 2 plus using all cores for the games, maybe.

 

[demigod]

Imagine pairing a modern supercar car chassis with a 1.5l Fiat engine from 2002 ... it makes no sense.

Extreme example, but the only reason you would do this is to keep costs down. There are zero performance benefits.

You sure were fast trying to push that 7700xt.

 

[KaiserBecks]

Imagine pairing a modern supercar car chassis with a 1.5l Fiat engine from 2002 ... it makes no sense.

Extreme example, but the only reason you would do this is to keep costs down. There are zero performance benefits.

You’ll get an Abarth 595 Competizione, which is an incredibly fun car to drive.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

In ray tracing though? We really think AMD caught up that quickly to Nvidia? Do we actually know that the advanced ray tracing isn't the same advanced ray tracing in 7000 series cards versus 6000? Because 2 - 3 times better doesn't sound like 4070 level.

Caught up that quickly? If AMD has finally caught up, there has been nothing quick about it. They have been lagging behind for almost 5 years now....

Mind you, catching up is actually an easy thing because what they needed to do has always been apparent from before RDNA2 even launched. Need I remind you what Intel accomplished with their first GPU? AMD is just stupidly stubborn, you could also say that separately and it would both apply to them.

From RDNA2, the two biggest issues with AMD GPUs has been an absence of Matrix accelerators, basically AI units in their GPUs (that even smart phone chip makers have managed to put in their SOCs) and their RT units not accelerating BVH traversal.

That has been known since before the launch of RDNA2, that was almost 4 years ago. They have since released RDNA2 and RDNA3 and didn't do shit about either of those two things.

Its about time they caught up.

 

[Topher]

I recall Gaiff saying this yesterday when folks were comparing the GPU to AMD cards. That's an impressive feature set. Starting to feel this thing isn't as overpriced as many of us (very much myself included) were thinking.

 

[N30RYU]

So... it is Goku Ultra Instinc? Gohan Beast or even Vegeta Ultra Ego???

 

[Gaiff]

I recall Gaiff saying this yesterday when folks were comparing the GPU to AMD cards. That's an impressive feature set. Starting to feel this thing isn't as overpriced as many of us (very much myself included) were thinking.

I’ve just been parroting what HeisenbergFX4 has been saying for over a year.

 

[ChiefDada]

It's nice to see those who were severely underestimating PS5 Pro slowly come back to reality, but I continue to stick to with my prediction of 7800xt in raster only games (however 7800xt will never match PS5 Pro image quality) and 4070S in games with RT.

 

[ReBurn]

I recall Gaiff saying this yesterday when folks were comparing the GPU to AMD cards. That's an impressive feature set. Starting to feel this thing isn't as overpriced as many of us (very much myself included) were thinking.

Same here. I'm leaning toward taking a chance and being an early adopter. I want to see more games first.

 

[twilo99]

You sure were fast trying to push that 7700xt.

I still think it will be very close to the 7700/7800xt but we will find out once they start benching games, but even then, there is always the “optimization” aspect which is a black hole of an argument

 

[Skifi28]

I recall Gaiff saying this yesterday when folks were comparing the GPU to AMD cards. That's an impressive feature set. Starting to feel this thing isn't as overpriced as many of us (very much myself included) were thinking.

As you've said before, it's more of a configuration issue than a price issue. Had it come with 1tb and a disc drive instead, I believe most people would be ok with it (other than us Europeans I guess.)

 

[SolidQ]

Is PS5pro have difference RT?

Refelctions seems better on PS5pro

 

[M1chl]

OG PS5 is nowhere near 4060...2060 maybe

 

[Topher]

I’ve just been parroting what HeisenbergFX4 has been saying for over a year.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I love new tech and stuff like PSSR. Love it on PC and love looking at this stuff to see how it stacks up compared to what I have on PC with DLSS.

 

[Topher]

 

[TrebleShot]

So then....
Crows at the ready

 

[mckmas8808]

Is PS5pro have difference RT?

Refelctions seems better on PS5pro

 

[SolidQ]

Another Hogwart RT
PS5 base

RTX 4090 moded ini

Is PS5 pro have additional RT?

 

[mckmas8808]

Imagine Sony introducing DLSS-like AI upscaling in the console space for the first time in console history and getting pure shit for it. It's insane that people were quick to downvote everything about PS5 pro. Especially considering what it will be able to do.

 

[ChiefDada]

Is PS5pro have difference RT?

The PS5 Pro seems to have more objects/detail reflected but it's possible the difference in color grading is throwing the comparison off. Curious which Nvidia card is this?

 

[mckmas8808]

Another Hogwart RT
PS5 base

RTX 4090 moded ini

Is PS5 pro have additional RT?

Yes! It's built into the PS5 Pro as hardware. 3x better RT than the PS5 OG.

 

[SolidQ]

Curious which Nvidia card is this?

Don't know, but above from 4090 is moded ini

color grading

maybe, but also possible Global illumination RT? Cybeppunk also getting darker with Path Tracing

 

[mayham2199]

Full video if anyone wants to watch it.