Support NeoGAF

[Balducci30]

They talked about ray tracing reflections not ray tracing global illumination which is far demanding than other rt features in GPU side
Also spider man 2 have rt reflections in 60 fps mode considering ND have more powerful game engine than insumniac it's not that hard to achieve that trailer quality without rtgi, but but if they ended use it archiving 4k 60fps will be nearly impossible even in pro

They also said it had very good possibly raytraced shadows in the cutscene, and it seemed implied the lighting in that scene was some form of RTGI. Maybe I misinterpreted tho

 

[SlimySnake]

Well from what digital foundry is saying it has high quality raytracing in every area, at 4k 60Fps, which I don't think the base Ps5 is even capable of is it?

Ray tracing is limited to reflections and maybe shadows. No RTGI.

Ratchet can at times hit native 4k 45-50 fps in quality mode with RT reflections in smaller areas. Its not surprising that ND are able to create a cutscene at that high of a resolution.

If you downgrade the visuals enough, you can get anything running at 4k 60 fps.

 

[Msamy]

They also said it had very good possibly raytraced shadows in the cutscene, and it seemed implied the lighting in that scene was some form of RTGI. Maybe I misinterpreted tho

I hope they really use rtgi

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah it doesn't look the same, it looks similar - but I played this part, they tried to match that cutscene as much as possible but couldn't get there, it's a total misrepresentation of how the game really looks.

The only difference is that unlike Uncharted 4 which looked a generation ahead of every other game out there at E3 2014, Interstellar looks fairly doable. They even admitted it.

if they downgrade any further from here, it will look worse than most modern games. At least right now we can say its roughly on par with some of the other titles.

 

[Msamy]

Ray tracing is limited to reflections and maybe shadows. No RTGI.

Ratchet can at times hit native 4k 45-50 fps in quality mode with RT reflections in smaller areas. Its not surprising that ND are able to create a cutscene at that high of a resolution.

If you downgrade the visuals enough, you can get anything running at 4k 60 fps.

There is no indication in that video that they use rtgi or not even DF don't confirm or deny that as they did with ghost 2 we need more footage to judge that, I really hope they use it with open world dynamic day night cycle

 

[Balducci30]

The only difference is that unlike Uncharted 4 which looked a generation ahead of every other game out there at E3 2014, Interstellar looks fairly doable. They even admitted it.

if they downgrade any further from here, it will look worse than most modern games. At least right now we can say it's roughly on par with some of the other titles.

True, I'd actually say the uncharted 4 reveal looks as good as this trailer, maybe even better in some respects. But there's less going on.

I do think the way the robots sword moves through the water suggests some sort of actual fluid sim going on, maybe that's taking up resources as well, could be scripted tho

 

[SlimySnake]

Is this one in sicily? my homeland? where exactly?

Looks like the countryside. This is set in the early 1900s.

Alex Cox: We've been out there a few times over the past couple of years. We went to Sicily, several trips out there with various members of the team. We partnered with a Sicilian game studio, which has been great to collaborate because they understand what we're looking for as game developers. They understand the challenges of game development of course and the kind of information we're going to need to know. And those guys helped us to connect with various experts in Sicily, historians.

One guy for example is like a knife expert. He's a guy that crafts all of these different kinds of knives. He's heavy into Sicilian knife fighting, which is something that features in this game. I wasn't on this trip, but the guys went to visit his workshop and he talked us through all of the creation of knives and the culture around knives in Sicilian culture, and obviously it's relevant to Mafia as a mafiosi weapon.

We visited a whole range of places actually. We went around and did the tour of the island. The game's largely set in the countryside actually. When you go to Sicily, most of the island is still a very rural setting. And so actually if you go and see places now, those old towns and villages and things like that, they look very, very similar to they would've done a hundred years ago. So that's cool.

It was a real mix of place events to visit. So locations from The Godfather movies for example, to sulfur mines. I went to this disused - fortunately now - Sicilian sulfur mine where these child laborers were once put to work. As with the other Mafia games, recreating the environment is a really big part of the pitch. It is like this time period, the mafia in this setting and making sure that's a rich realization of that.

 

[alloush]

Interstellar looks fairly doable

 

[SlimySnake]

Im not spelling that stupid name. I misspell it every time. From henceforth i shall refer to it as Interstellar.

 

[CGNoire]

So according to DF, this is indeed running on a base PS5 at native 4k 60 fps with RT reflections and VSM shadows. My goodness, gigantic waste of GPU power. I figured it was running on the PS5 Pro at native 4k and probably would run at 1800p 60 fps on the base console.

They themselves said that it doesnt look like a big leap over TLOU2, but were impressed because its pristine. Yay? The game is likely a 2027 title that will launch on PC day one. If you want pristine, you can run it on PC or hell, the PS6 later that year.

Surely, a tech channel like DF should be demanding more from the premiere first party studio at Sony. A next generation console that costs $500 should offer a next gen leap.

Yep there sellouts.

 

[GooseMan69]

Wukong still feels like garbage even with the Pro patch. Performance mode is still fake 60 fps. Balance mode seems a little better but that's about it. I thought the Pro would give this a FF Rebirth type of boost but no such luck.

 

[Playboi Carti]

Just wanted to say that with the whole recent Intergalactic buzz and them in-game sequence visuals looking mid as fuck as expected, just wanna shout out Rockstar for being the last of the big studios to stick to 30fps and just continue to elevate the state of the art visuals and just reach the limits of what's possible on each generation's hardware. If I was making triple A games and these consoles or the next consoles had 5090 level of GPU horsepower I'd still be making 30fps games running at way below native 4k resolutions, fuck everyone.

 

[Jack Howitzer]

gymwolfingly good maybe?

What?Ain't gonna happen dude!It's just the usual "JohnLameman aka our shameless neighbourhood clownstar" level amazing/wonderful/splendid achievement--which means absolutely nothing transformative.

 

[littlezoo]

Not sure how people can be impressed by this. The eyebrows look so bad, they look like they were done cheaply in Microsoft paint. The image quality looks so cartoonish. There's just too many traces of last gen in upgraded Naughty Dog engine. Too much competition out there for this to stand out.

Unless someone hasn't played any games or been exposed to any AAA game info in the past 5 years, I can't understand why anyone would be impressed by ND's last-gen character models, which, even in already-released games, are at best mediocre.

 

[mrqs]

Unless someone hasn't played any games or been exposed to any AAA game info in the past 5 years, I can't understand why anyone would be impressed by ND's last-gen character models, which, even in already-released games, are at best mediocre.

Unreal is clearly ahead of >everyone<, but that doesn't mean that Naughty Dog doesn't have its magic and will sure do something really impressive.

We have seen a snippet of the game with barely anything to truly understand what they're aiming at. Maybe it's a full-blown open world with flying cars like Jak 3. Probably not, but what I'm saying is that we don't know where they're going with the game to judge appropriately.

Hellblade 2 is basically a tech demo. You can't barely do anything in the game.

(Also, Indiana Jones faces are not a benchmark for anything.)

yeah and it looks nothing like this:

I don't think the difference is technical, though. It just looks like the demo was deeply massaged with perfectly placed lighting to look as beautiful as it could be. In-game is clearly unpolished, something that you would see in a scene that didn't get the care it needed.

The only technical thing that doesn't seem viable on the released game is the water and how it behaves. Other than that, it looks like the same character model with just a better lighting scheme.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't think the difference is technical, though. It just looks like the demo was deeply massaged with perfectly placed lighting to look as beautiful as it could be. In-game is clearly unpolished, something that you would see in a scene that didn't get the care it needed.

The only technical thing that doesn't seem viable on the released game is the water and how it behaves. Other than that, it looks like the same character model with just a better lighting scheme.

They are both cutscenes. With perfectly placed lights and the entire 1.8tflops GPU rendering the face and face alone.

They got closer in TLOU2. Even closer in TLOU part 1. But U4 definitely didnt look that good because it was downgraded technically.

 

[Balducci30]

Unreal is clearly ahead of >everyone<, but that doesn't mean that Naughty Dog doesn't have its magic and will sure do something really impressive.

We have seen a snippet of the game with barely anything to truly understand what they're aiming at. Maybe it's a full-blown open world with flying cars like Jak 3. Probably not, but what I'm saying is that we don't know where they're going with the game to judge appropriately.

Hellblade 2 is basically a tech demo. You can't barely do anything in the game.

(Also, Indiana Jones faces are not a benchmark for anything.)






I don't think the difference is technical, though. It just looks like the demo was deeply massaged with perfectly placed lighting to look as beautiful as it could be. In-game is clearly unpolished, something that you would see in a scene that didn't get the care it needed.

The only technical thing that doesn't seem viable on the released game is the water and how it behaves. Other than that, it looks like the same character model with just a better lighting scheme.

Difference is definitely technical - the water, the fly, the lighting - all the detail on his face. The actual game this scene is mostly in shadow so you can't make out the differences as well at first glance, not to say it isn't impressive for PS4, but it's clearly a mile away from that reveal imo.

 

[Msamy]

What is your thoughts on this one

Personally I think intergalactic looks better and upcoming iMass effect will ilook better

 

[Kaiserstark]

I don't really see the point in focusing on the fact that the Intergalactic trailer is a resolution close to native 4K because the reality is that that will very likely not be the case with the final game.

I mean we just need to look at The Last of Us Part 2 Remastered on PS5 wich was released earlier this year.

The performance mode which runs at 60 fps and it's also not a perfect locked 60 fps uses a resolution of 1440p so it's hard to believe that a more technically ambitious game which also uses Ray Tracing for reflections and potentially shadows could run at native 4K with 60 fps on the base PS5, that's just common sense.

What is your thoughts on this one

Personally I think intergalactic looks better and upcoming iMass effect will ilook better

The facial animations clearly don't look good and i also don't like the art style, honestly that look like a Mass Effect game but with a smaller team with a much more limited budget.

To be honest their trailer is just not good.

 

[Senua]

The facial animations clearly don't look good and i also don't like the artstyle, honestly that look like a Mass Effect game but with a smaller team with a much more limited budget.

That's because it is, but it'll be better than anything new "Bioware" will ever achieve.

 

[mrqs]

What is your thoughts on this one

Personally I think intergalactic looks better and upcoming iMass effect will ilook better

Looks really generic and not at all something that I would go all-in.

Clearly has a 'Mass Effect Andromeda 2' vibe to it.

Wouldn't bet on it doing well.

 

[Kaiserstark]

That's because it is, but it'll be better than anything new "Bioware" will ever achieve.

From what i know the budget for this game is pretty big but the trailer clearly don't make you feel that which is a problem.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

And while it does look good, it doesnt look leagues ahead of other games and looks a generation behind Witcher 4, pre-rendered or not.

With how much you know about visuals and the industry how can you say that with a straight face. Real time (esp a game targeting 16ms while using multiple RT effects) WILL NEVER be able to compete with pre rendered visuals whether it's using in game assets or not.

16ms on a $500-$700 console versus multiple hours per frame using super computers...

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

They are both cutscenes. With perfectly placed lights and the entire 1.8tflops GPU rendering the face and face alone.

They got closer in TLOU2. Even closer in TLOU part 1. But U4 definitely didnt look that good because it was downgraded technically.

The rest of the industry caught up. In part due to unified industry engines and tools like UE5. It's that simple. New AAA games as a whole look great. This is what they are and will be for the coming few years. It will be next gen before another big visual leap but I can already predict you will still be disappointed because PS6 games will not look as good as pre rendered visuals.

 

[Kaiserstark]

New screenshot for Marvel's1943 : Rise of Hydra :

For the moment the release is still planned for next year but I think people have to manage their expectations apparently the studio is only made up of something like 50 people.

For example Ninja Theory had 80 people working on Hellblade 2 so I think you should expect the same kind of limited experience.

 

[tmlDan]

The rest of the industry caught up. In part due to unified industry engines and tools like UE5. It's that simple. New AAA games as a whole look great. This is what they are and will be for the coming few years. It will be next gen before another big visual leap but I can already predict you will still be disappointed because PS6 games will not look as good as pre rendered visuals.

they havent caught up tho, they're all still extremely poor at creating nuanced facial animations. Something ND kills everyone in, you can claim senua does it but its not as good considering its in a 4 hour tech demo of a game.

 

[Balducci30]

New screenshot for Marvel 1943 : Rise of Hydra :

For the moment the release is still planned for next year but I think people have to manage their expectations apparently the studio is only made up of something like 50 people.

For example Ninja Theory had 80 people working on Hellblade 2 so I think you should expect the same kind of limited experience.

Man if we can get games next gen that are open and look like that consistently I'll be more than happy

 

[SlimySnake]

What is your thoughts on this one

Personally I think intergalactic looks better and upcoming iMass effect will ilook better

Super last gen. Underwhelming as fuck.

But its a small studio so lets hope the gameplay is good.

 

[Msamy]

Super last gen. Underwhelming as fuck.

But its a small studio so lets hope the gameplay is good.

They have same amount of developer's as bend studio I checked their LinkedIn page and they describe their game as AAA, with NetEase support alongside side UE5 engine, they disappointed

 

[H . R . 2]

is this the rumoured killer feature of the 50 series?

also check this out, UE5 game, reminds me of an old gem: Cryostasis

 

[Msamy]

New screenshot for Marvel's1943 : Rise of Hydra :

For the moment the release is still planned for next year but I think people have to manage their expectations apparently the studio is only made up of something like 50 people.

For example Ninja Theory had 80 people working on Hellblade 2 so I think you should expect the same kind of limited experience.

Wow, this definitely will be next gen title

 

[SlimySnake]

is this the rumoured killer feature of the 50 series?

That's basically what the ultimate goal for AI is. AI will change the way we render games. Either by optimizing hardware or intercepting software instructions and having AI figure out what to do with them.

No one knows what that means quite yet. Aside from nvidia. Let's see what they've been cooking up but I suspect it will be the first iteration of something that will take a decade to become reality.

 

[amigastar]

New screenshot for Marvel's1943 : Rise of Hydra :

For the moment the release is still planned for next year but I think people have to manage their expectations apparently the studio is only made up of something like 50 people.

For example Ninja Theory had 80 people working on Hellblade 2 so I think you should expect the same kind of limited experience.

It looks like a painting, lol. Very impressive.

 

[Balducci30]

Wow, this definitely will be next gen title

Imagine this detail/fidelity of all the assets in the environment in an open world. With pathtracing - and where everything is physically accurate/moves as it should, water, objects etc.

I really think if we hit that level of detail in games it's time to focus on physics/interactivity/destruction.

 

[Msamy]

Imagine this detail/fidelity of all the assets in the environment in an open world. With pathtracing - and where everything is physically accurate/moves as it should, water, objects etc.

I really think if we hit that level of detail in games it's time to focus on physics/interactivity/destruction.

That's what we need from next gen full path tracing in open world at 4k I don't care about that 60fps bullshit

 

[Balducci30]

That's what we need from next gen full path tracing in open world at 4k I don't care about that 60fps bullshit

I don't even need 4k, if it's 1440 I'm good to go - 60fps is the first thing to go tho. Do not need that shit on consoles

 

[rofif]

What is your thoughts on this one

Personally I think intergalactic looks better and upcoming iMass effect will ilook better

should look good but I got the generic metahuman/ue5 feeling

 

[Neo_game]

Unless someone hasn't played any games or been exposed to any AAA game info in the past 5 years, I can't understand why anyone would be impressed by ND's last-gen character models, which, even in already-released games, are at best mediocre.

I do not think Intergalactic characters looks bad. IMO HB2 looks too plastic. If Intergalactic is going to have dark settings with lots of reflective surfaces and water then RT reflection can help, may be have nice alpha affects, fog etc ... but otherwise RT is a waste of resources IMO. LOD, textures and nice lighting is enough to have impressive gfx.

 

[amigastar]

I do not think Intergalactic characters looks bad. IMO HB2 looks too plastic. If Intergalactic is going to have dark settings with lots of reflective surfaces and water then RT reflection can help, may be have nice alpha affects, fog etc ... but otherwise RT is a waste of resources IMO. LOD, textures and nice lighting is enough to have impressive gfx.

Sub surface Scattering would fix that plastic look.

 

[Msamy]

Sub surface Scattering would fix that plastic look.

ND and guerilla are leading on that tech

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

That's what we need from next gen full path tracing in open world at 4k I don't care about that 60fps bullshit

I could live with 40 fps in an open world game next gen. Being an Oled guy you need that 40 fps to not have judder ..

But for action games, souls style games and fighting games can we agree we need 60 at least?

 

[rofif]

I could live with 40 fps in an open world game next gen. Being an Oled guy you need that 40 fps to not have judder ..

But for action games, souls style games and fighting games can we agree we need 60 at least?

yeah 40 is WAY better than 30.
I actually wish movies were 40fps too.... some 30fps movies are painful depending on panning speed

 

[Balducci30]

yeah 40 is WAY better than 30.
I actually wish movies were 40fps too.... some 30fps movies are painful depending on panning speed

Movies are 24fps. Above that they look fucking weird - see the hobbit at 60 FPS, or when TV's do motion smoothing, looks terrible

 

[Bojji]

yeah 40 is WAY better than 30.
I actually wish movies were 40fps too.... some 30fps movies are painful depending on panning speed

I watched 48fps hobbit 10 years ago and it was awful. Soap opera effect.

I prefer movies at 24/30fps.

But I can't stand 30fps games anymore.

 

[rofif]

Movies are 24fps. Above that they look fucking weird - see the hobbit at 60 FPS, or when TV's do motion smoothing, looks terrible

I watched 48fps hobbit 10 years ago and it was awful. Soap opera effect.

I prefer movies at 24/30fps.

But I can't stand 30fps games anymore.

I think I was meant to say 30fps.
24fps judder on movies on oled is kinda bad. 30fps would help a bit in those movies./
Yeah that hobbit was horrid lol. maybe it could possibly be good with adjusted shutter speed.
gemini man was also really weird

 

[amigastar]

I watched 48fps hobbit 10 years ago and it was awful. Soap opera effect.

I prefer movies at 24/30fps.

But I can't stand 30fps games anymore.

Yeah, that gives the movies more warmth. 48fps look so clinical.

 

[Balducci30]

I think I was meant to say 30fps.
24fps judder on movies on oled is kinda bad. 30fps would help a bit in those movies./
Yeah that hobbit was horrid lol. maybe it could possibly be good with adjusted shutter speed.
gemini man was also really weird

I think you're basically talking about in movies where the camera pans at certain speed, and at 24fps it looks juddery. I don't think bumping it to 30 would fix the issue - panning the camera at a certain speed just has that problem - ideally you just don't put that shot in a film unless for effect. A slower pan it looks fine, a quicker pan it looks like a blur and is also fine. In between those it can be disorienting cus it's too fast too see the frame properly and too slow to feel like a blur.

 

[SlimySnake]

While Marvel can get pretty fantastical, especially when leaning into the multiverse, Hennig notes that their mission is to keep the game as grounded as possible. "We're entirely CG, so it's really easy to get ungrounded real quick," she says. "You can see even the movies can fall under that trap; too much CG and you don't know the ground you're standing on. We really wanted the visual fidelity to be high so that you could kind of forget that you're looking at a game, that it should feel and look and sound and smell like you're watching a great Marvel movie or TV show, but you're driving the action."

This is what I want to hear from industry leading developers. God Bless Amy Henning. Seems she took ND's DNA with her.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't even need 4k, if it's 1440 I'm good to go - 60fps is the first thing to go tho. Do not need that shit on consoles

1440p upscaled to 4k using TSR, FSR, DLSS, PSSR and GG's own upscaler in HFW can look just as good as 4k. There is really no reason to waste so much GPU on rendering pixels natively anymore.

These techniques only break when they drop to 1080p or below adding artifacts and ugly shimmering, but if they had stuck with the 1440p 30 fps target of the original demo and the Matrix awakens demo while upscaling to 4k, we would not have anyone bitching about how UE5 sucks.

I think you're basically talking about in movies where the camera pans at certain speed, and at 24fps it looks juddery. I don't think bumping it to 30 would fix the issue - panning the camera at a certain speed just has that problem - ideally you just don't put that shot in a film unless for effect. A slower pan it looks fine, a quicker pan it looks like a blur and is also fine. In between those it can be disorienting cus it's too fast too see the frame properly and too slow to feel like a blur.

The funny thing is that camera panning in 60 fps still has the same issues as you can see in the Interstellar trailer's opening one shot take. It's super distracting. Id rather they stick with 24 fps cutscenes like Epic did with the Matrix demo. You get back another 20% in GPU on top of the 40% they get by adding black bars during cutscenes. There is a reason why Matrix cutscenes look photorealistic.

Movies are 24fps. Above that they look fucking weird - see the hobbit at 60 FPS, or when TV's do motion smoothing, looks terrible

iirc, hobbit was 48 fps. James Cameron shot Avatar 2 at 60 fps and it looked incredible. He also knew that there are issues with 60 fps cutscenes like that soap opera effect and fast forward motion smoothing feel, so he purposefully shot certain scenes at 30 fps. overall though, watching Avatar 2 at 60 fps in 3D was a religious experience. Especially the underwater levels which felt like a locked 60 fps lol. The movie just doesnt feel as impressive on my 4k oled at 30 fps.

Even certain hobbit shots at 48 fps were spectacular, so I can definitely see them go to 60 fps in the future. Especially for action films. just not for every single scene.

 

[alloush]

This is what I want to hear from industry leading developers. God Bless Amy Henning. Seems she took ND's DNA with her.

Best thing I have fucking read about videogames in like a year