Maestr0
Member
Then don't enter it, or make a DMZ like South and North Korea
Oh sheeet, EU be juicing - $840 billion 'Rearm Europe' plan announced
- Thread starter Cyberpunkd
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We all did.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Like the Hellespont should become a DMZ.
Mistake
Member
I get that a lot of people are upset over the US pulling a switcharoo, and it is both the fault of the US and Russia for putting that region in a mess, but there is one key thing to understand. Americans and are sick and tired of the never ending wars. We just got through 20 years of the middle east, while me and my friends grew up poor going to the local food bank. The US is already broke and has been spending like every day is Christmas. The sooner this ends, the better.
Misinformation and the lack of accountability for spreading it is a large part of the problem. Instead of a digital age where we can find out facts in short order and improve our personal and collective knowledge, a sitting US President becomes a vehicle for Russian propaganda and there isn't any real accountability.
This is something the level of defense spending doesn't address. Russia didn't need a trillion dollar annual defense budget to put their agenda in the White House or to influence Belarus, Hungary, Slovakia and Georgia.
In short order people are focussing on the democracies of Europe as the enemy over Russia or how evil Canada is for all that Fentanyl flowing across the border. It won't take much for the Americans already referring to other Americans as parasites to keep expanding the list.
TransTrender
Gold Member
I'm glad to see this happen.
Unknown?
Member
You sound like you've watched too much CIA propaganda.
As an American, Trump is destroying every bridge with our allies in support of our enemies. Every move hurts the US, their allies, and benefits our enemies.
Attack the news, make us look like assholes, etc. His job is to he a hammer and his cult blindly supports whatever the fuck he says. Fake news was just the start of undermining every trust pillar. Now here we are.
Anyone who says America is sick of wars and that's the reason trump is doing what he is doing is either a bad actor or fucking moron.
wake the fuck up republicans.
Attack the news, make us look like assholes, etc. His job is to he a hammer and his cult blindly supports whatever the fuck he says. Fake news was just the start of undermining every trust pillar. Now here we are.
Anyone who says America is sick of wars and that's the reason trump is doing what he is doing is either a bad actor or fucking moron.
wake the fuck up republicans.
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Unknown?
Member
Go read about project mockingbird. The news destroyed their own credibility.
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I don't need to, I'm seeing this shit in realtime. Like the rest of the world.
Kittehkraken
Member
Should be expected from a White House that is threatening to annex Canada while imposing illegal tariffs designed to destroy there economy.
Unknown?
Member
Good, then you know establishment media is just propaganda.
I think you're adding nothing to this conversation with those loaded terms.
I'm calling out republicans, who dominate mainstream media, for being exponentially worse than anyone else and a bunch of fucking traitors.
Traitors to what? From my point of view the government in the US has been violating their own rules and the rights of Americans for a while. Then when just a little pushback happens people scream "treason".
God forbid someone try to end a war.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Republicans dominate mainstream media?
Aside from Fox, every other big news channel leans left. And among social media, it's been heavy left by users and celebs for probably a decade.
Unknown?
Member
You have a right to an opinion, I just think your opinion sucks and doesn't reflect reality at all. Hence the topic of this thread.
"End a war", what a joke of a comment. You'd get your ass kicked by a 1st grader playing Risk with that kind of logic.
That's your #1 problem. Stop watching that trash.
You got nothing so you're just going to shit this thread up with out of context comments now. It's all you got. All cut from the same cloth of bullshitters.
Do you know what debt is?
We aren't playing risk. You are playing with thermo nuclear warfare.
Debt? You mean softpower and foreign policy. So just give russia Ukraine and hope they stop there? That strategy is weapons grade retarded. Ukraine was using the shit on the floor from our military surplus store and turned Putins 3 day war into whatever the fuck it is now.
Meanwhile we are attacking our allies. All while proposing to kill tax revenue and implement tarrifs, among so many horrendous decisions. Great way to fund and fight a war there my guy.
I am embarrassed for you.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Let's say we in Poland are uniquely positioned to see how a decision-making framework can ruin a country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto
Zathalus
Member
Russia isn't going to start WW3 over Ukraine, as long as no one tries to seriously invade them. Supplying military equipment to Ukraine won't tip that scale.
What might tip the scales to WW3 is the withdrawal of America from the world stage and NATO. Without the security blanket of America and the stability they bought (to both themselves and others), many countries will now scramble for their own nuclear capability. Now Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, Japan, South Korea, and such might start to want a nuclear attack options of their own.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
Some in this thread:
Help fight the 21st century Hitler and your biggest geopolitical adversary while not having a single boot on the ground for a fraction of the cost of all the wars you fought and supporting your allies for almost a 100 years.
Just because of "tired of financing wars far away" while forgetting they started every war they've been in in their lifetime and were supported by these same allies who fought and died supporting them.
- Starting at trade war with all of these allies costing EVERYONE a shitton of money.
- Threatening annexation of maybe your closest ally and neighbour
- Threatening to take over an allies territory 'by all means'.
- Supporting an army in the middle east that doesn't need your support with millions (billions?) and threatening to help fight their war.
- Talking so much shit that China is now saying they are ready for any type of war against the US
- Threatening war for the panama canal
- Threatening war against Mexico (cartels).
- Making sure your allies do not trust America again in the next decades causing them all to move away from American products costing your economy big time in the long run.
I'm glad they elected the 'president for peace'. Can you imagine if they elected a guy that is for war?
Help fight the 21st century Hitler and your biggest geopolitical adversary while not having a single boot on the ground for a fraction of the cost of all the wars you fought and supporting your allies for almost a 100 years.
Just because of "tired of financing wars far away" while forgetting they started every war they've been in in their lifetime and were supported by these same allies who fought and died supporting them.
- Starting at trade war with all of these allies costing EVERYONE a shitton of money.
- Threatening annexation of maybe your closest ally and neighbour
- Threatening to take over an allies territory 'by all means'.
- Supporting an army in the middle east that doesn't need your support with millions (billions?) and threatening to help fight their war.
- Talking so much shit that China is now saying they are ready for any type of war against the US
- Threatening war for the panama canal
- Threatening war against Mexico (cartels).
- Making sure your allies do not trust America again in the next decades causing them all to move away from American products costing your economy big time in the long run.
I'm glad they elected the 'president for peace'. Can you imagine if they elected a guy that is for war?
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
The most hilarious part is that if we look at Germany and Italy, 54 and 53% are saying there is not enough support yet 35% and 39% are saying that the amount of support should be lowered (with 20% and 15% saying there is not enough). I am pretty sure that when Europe will start investing more into the military and it will start affecting the life, the support will go down fast. Especially with the amount of migrants there - patriotic fervor will allow you to go that far.
So will there be 51 FBI agents corroborating that this time?He acted exactly as you would expect him to if this were true.
Russia has been cultivating Trump as an asset for 40 years, former KGB spy says
Yuri Shvets told The Guardian that the KGB had identified Trump as a potential asset as far back as the 1980s.www.businessinsider.com
Edit: Okay this quote is pure gold.
Yeah, I am pretty sure the founding fathers were itching to engage into the continental war. The current american policy is basically the legacy of Woodrow Wilson.
That's what should have happened - much earlier but oh well - you don't see SK itching to get back Northern Korean lands (NK wants to do that though).
"US enemy". Was it before and after europeans started to buy Russian resources?
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Gp1
Member
Sorry isn't this politics?????? cc @evillore
For my 2 freedom cents. Europe will have trouble funding and staffing such an endeavor. This is most likely posturing to try and improve the Ukraine outcome of the eventual negotiations. There's no way they'll obliterate their welfare programs to become (still 2nd place) world policeman. Americans already hate being world policeman, does the average EU citizen really want to do that??
Also last time Europe was heavily armed I'm pretty sure that lead to a WW, but I'm happy to be corrected
One thing the we tend to underestimate is EU countries savings levels. Almost every single country in the EU zone is siting on a pile of money, even after the pandemics. They will be just fine investing on some force modernization/integration. And it will probably play out as it happened in America, from government buying, investing and fomenting their own national businesses. It's completely different scenario than a small country buying weapons abroad without any kind of technological counterpart.
It's more abou force equilibrium than anything else. From 1946 until 1990 Europe was at it's peak of "destructive power" by far. We tend to short the timeframe to our contemporary time. An easier question would be "When was the last time Europe was not armed to its teeth?"
Because the last time we saw a big war in Europe was in WW2. And in almost 90 years after WW2, the last time Europe was not armed was from the 2010 to now. Even on the 2000's the British, France, Germany would have been a credible fighting force against Russia. 10 to 15 years of the last 90s, and that's when Ukraine happened.
What we are seeing in Ukraine today is Putin playing his last cards in using his cold war arsenal to leverage something in the Geopolitical arena. In the next 10 years a good portion of its cold war forces that they are using to attrite Ukraine today would be in a scrapyard.
It's all fun and games when the "good guys" goes after it. because this is what will happen if the club gets an expansion.
Let's see what will happen when Iran, Venezuela, Egypt, Indonesia etc, goes after it. And then when the counterparts of these countries like Saudi Arabia, Colombia, Turkey, Malasia goes after it...
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
"Republicans dominating mainstream media"...Now that's new
Refugees? Pff. I wonder how many of those arguing in favor of Ukraine support are even willing to join the combat (they can do it right now). Talk and preaching online is cheap.
Trunx81
Member
Going back to the root of the problem, the war, I personally don't see an end to this if Trump doesn't work it out. And it will cost the Ukraine. What are the alternatives? Most people tend to think that we arm Ukraine up and one day they'll win. Because Putins ammunition is running out since three years and he has to take chips out of washing machines. On the other hand he's nearly through to conquer Germany. Make up your minds, folks. It can be only one thing, not both at the same time.
But just imagine for a moment that Ukraine wins. Russia has to retreat, defeated, the Russian army done for good. The power vacuum in the world would lead into terrible things. Iran and Israel. China and Taiwan. Turkey and Greece. Everyone would try to get their hands into the cookie dough. Extremist groups in the Middle East would rise.
In Russia itself, warmongers even worse than Putin will see their chances. It's still a nuclear power and what happens when someone not as intelligent as Putin (and you wouldn't rule Russia for 25 years if you're not intelligent) takes over? Maybe some warheads get "lost", reappearing inside the US. Boom. You can skip Fallout Season 2 because you'll be living in it.
Sure, the alternative could be: A more peaceful president takes over Russia and everything is roses and cake. But is anyone seriously believing that?
Global politics isn't black and white. It's a lot of mud and grey, terribly conflicted and complicated.
I would expect from my politicians to do everything to solve the conflict peacefully. But as long as you just want to save your own ass to stay in power, you won't do anything that changes the status quo.
Please think more than one step ahead. What would be the consequences? How would the world look like in 5 to 10 years? We've seen how conflicts can engulf the whole earth. And nowadays we can experience it live, online. 24/7
But just imagine for a moment that Ukraine wins. Russia has to retreat, defeated, the Russian army done for good. The power vacuum in the world would lead into terrible things. Iran and Israel. China and Taiwan. Turkey and Greece. Everyone would try to get their hands into the cookie dough. Extremist groups in the Middle East would rise.
In Russia itself, warmongers even worse than Putin will see their chances. It's still a nuclear power and what happens when someone not as intelligent as Putin (and you wouldn't rule Russia for 25 years if you're not intelligent) takes over? Maybe some warheads get "lost", reappearing inside the US. Boom. You can skip Fallout Season 2 because you'll be living in it.
Sure, the alternative could be: A more peaceful president takes over Russia and everything is roses and cake. But is anyone seriously believing that?
Global politics isn't black and white. It's a lot of mud and grey, terribly conflicted and complicated.
I would expect from my politicians to do everything to solve the conflict peacefully. But as long as you just want to save your own ass to stay in power, you won't do anything that changes the status quo.
Please think more than one step ahead. What would be the consequences? How would the world look like in 5 to 10 years? We've seen how conflicts can engulf the whole earth. And nowadays we can experience it live, online. 24/7
LimanimaPT
Member
And do you think any benefit is coming your way? Your country is ruled by olygarchs they don't give a fuck about poor people and they suren don't give two fucks about you.
Wake up for your new reality. You are now ruled by a totalitary regime, just like ruzzia and north korea.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
I get your point, but you must understand that just giving Putin what he wants isn't doing anyone any good either right? What about the next time he tries to take another part of Ukraine with some bullshit reasons? We're going to let him do it again? What about all the war crimes commited like I mentioned here before (Bucha and many many more). Tell the families of the murdered children to get over it because noone is going to be held accountable. We just forget about it because it might get worse in the long run?
We have only heard that Ukraine must give 500B in minerals to the US but nothing is expected from Russia? I don't see Trump blasting Putin like he does Zelenskyy every chance he gets. Even worse, he's already trying to make deals with Russia and discussing removing sanctions... wtf even.
Russia is also still saying it will never give up any territory they gained and wants even more still...
Appeasing dictators NEVER works and it gives them the courage to do it all over again. That's why zelenskyy is adament on security guarantees (even if Trump's word is complete shit just like Putin's).
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MisterFalcon
Member
Of course, nothing owns the libs quite like Putin genociding some more people. Maybe even with some direct help from their new American vassals.
Trunx81
Member
That's what we did through history. Remember that Saddam was an ally once as well.
And for how to prevent Putin to try again: The idea is of having an international vigilance by the border, American and European soldiers. Companies from the west helping out to rebuild.
I totally get your point that we all want retaliation. But is it really realistic? Think about it not with emotion, but rational. What would you do?
Giving up Ukraine is not going to make your life any better. Sorry.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
He's actually gullible enough to think that not giving old tanks/weaponry from cold storage will mean he'll get more money. Just wait until the tarrifs start hitting. You'll be going back to your foodbanks soon. Giving up Ukraine and threatening your allies will not help the US in any way. Maybe the russian appeasers at the top.
I know I know, it's probably out of the question hold anyone accountable. I know what the idea is but Russia already said that that's out of the question (EU/US troops in Ukraine). US troops will never happen with Trump anyway.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
It's not about retaliation, it's about punishing Putin for starting a war. Because if there is no downside and only a potential upside of course you would do this again - who wouldn't?
Ukraine doesn't need to win, but US instead of bullying the country should put pressure on Putin (or most likely his inner circle) on whether he wants Russia to be subjugated by China.
Lunarorbit
Member
No Americans besides private contractors have died in Ukraine and we cleared out our old inventory of armored vehicles through loans.
Helping europe and there not being food at your local food bank aren't related. You want food at your local food bank and other social safety nets? Well guess the fuck what the trump administration has some bootstraps for you.
Don't blame ukraine for domestic policy issues that Republicans don't care about. They are literally robbing us
Trunx81
Member
The US put pressure on Putin for three years now. Punishing him would be the right thing, yes, but we're not in a movie. Politics are nasty business. Especially when dealing with a powerful dictator. Just remember Pinochet in Chile. Is it unfair? Absolutely.
Mistake
Member
Blowing money and sinking the US economy isn't related to what we're doing in Europe? That makes zero sense. Every time I turn around we're getting some new tax and wasting it on bullshit, which directly impacts how much money I have to spend on myself and those same safety nets you and I care about. Many Americans voted for the crazy man because the current system was robbing us for decades and it was obvious. It's also why many don't care if that system burns to the ground.
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Lukaku's First Touch
Member
Yes that makes sense. I don't get enough money/pay too much so lets blow it all up and make sure I get even less money/pay even more.
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Mistake
Member
My state can do it fine, I don't see why federal can't. If everything goes up instead of how much you make, then what's your solution? Pay more?
Ah yes, the tax fairy pays it. That's right. The one addicted to pixie dust
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
I doubt the world cup is going to happen.The 2026 World Cup better not be cancelled or postponed because of all this. Stay friends for the sake of football, the worlds greatest sport.
Lunarorbit
Member
blaming both sides doesn't work. The system hasnt been robbing you; that's literally happening right now with doge stealing everything for billionaire tax breaks.
Have fun with no dept of education and tons of shit heads telling you the earth is only 3000 years old.
Lunarorbit
Member
That's fucking hilarious. I forgot the world cup is shared next year. Fifa is super corrupt and I dont watch soccer so I hope it crashes and burns
Mistake
Member
dept of education is garbage. In my college there were people who didn't even know what a negative number was, and my high school dropped the failing grade by 5 points to keep their funding going. Sell me another food pyramid
You should be angry at the tax relief going to the rich not the peanuts going to Ukraine. Ukraine are an ally. The same ally that fought alongside US troops in Iraq. Russia getting what they want is not going to put food on your table.
Mistake
Member
I am, and have been. It's part of the whole pie, believe me. I didn't mind Bernie and his message before he became a two-faced sellout.
Anyway, I do hope less Ukranians die and things just stop. I don't know what will be needed for it to happen, maybe a line in the sand, but the average citizens of both countries are suffering for people at the top and it's not right. A close friend of mine had to leave country to avoid the draft at one point
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