Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah campus event

I was today years old when I realized why politics aren't allowed on here. The guy was a total POS and I say this as a cis hetero (not white) male not someone with far left ideology. I can't believe so many on here are defending or at the very least downplaying his views. Anyway sympathy for his daughters not the wife she knew what she married.
As i said on a different post, the reason why politics aren't allowed in here is because this forum would implode inside out. It was clear today.

People not realizing what kind of damage a guy like this could make by having that sort of influence on young people...and try to defend this guy's views on how every raped woman needing to have those kids (including 10 year old girls), etc...is just something i can't get behind. I just hope no one that agrees with this guy is married or has daughters. If so i feel sorry for them.
 
As i said on a different post, the reason why politics aren't allowed in here is because this forum would implode inside out. It was clear today.

People not realizing what kind of damage a guy like this could make by having that sort of influence on young people...and try to defend this guy's views on how every raped woman needing to have those kids (including 10 year old girls), etc...is just something i can't get behind. I just hope no one that agrees with this guy is married or has daughters. If so i feel sorry for them.
Yeah but would you end his life? No.
 
Fighting to eliminate rights for entire segments of people is indeed "hurting someone". Being friendly to someone's face while actively trying to eliminate their basic human rights does not make you a standup guy.


It's silly to have to explain this.
What basic human rights being taken away are you referring to specifically?

Going with that though, in your estimation is every person on the planet who believes that gay marriage should be illegal or abortions should be banned and votes or supports policies to that effect a bad person? Those are basic human rights that would be taken away. I asked ChatGPT how many people on earth it would estimate would fall under either category. It said about 4-5 billion for each. That's a lot of people. What if someone has a belief you consider bad on one issue, but good on a lot of other issues? Does the one bad good issue cancel out all the other good ones? If so, why?

What if you have a scientist who fought his entire life to cure disease, invented some type of vaccine or cure to save millions of lives, but in their free time they go out and protest against abortion and a woman's bodily autonomy? Are they good for saving lives or bad for wanting to strip away the rights of women?

Or perhaps people are just really complex creatures and we shouldn't so easily judge them. That's my view. And frankly, I think having a cynical view on others deprives us the enjoyment of others. It's one thing I've made a concerted effort to try to do. Find reasons to like people. It's not as hard to do was I thought it would be once I started approaching life this way. And that goes for people who may not look at me the same way in return.
 
I was going to say last night... why are we discussing the 2nd amendment? This was very possibly done with your average hunting rifle.

There is no version of America where hunting rifles will be banned, ever. You won't even get that done in Canada.
I don't know about that. Canada has a tendency to over correct with gun laws,

edit: sp and clarification
 
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I was today years old when I realized why politics aren't allowed on here. The guy was a total POS and I say this as a cis hetero (not white) male not someone with far left ideology. I can't believe so many on here are defending or at the very least downplaying his views. Anyway sympathy for his daughters not the wife she knew what she married.
He was also willing to force his underage daughter to carry a rape baby to term if such a thing ever happened. Truly dad of the year candidate, right there.

In the long run, they are probably better off.
 
I can't tell if people on the right are perhaps incapable of understanding that two things can be true simultaneously. Charlie Kirk really had disagreeable views that many found hateful, and that he shouldn't be killed because of these views. These aren't contradictory stances. Just because he was shot, doesn't mean that people who previously disagreed with him have to admit that he was actually right about anything.

There are a minority of people online who are actively cheering this on. These are, for the most part, absolute nobodies. You won't find this from any democrat in a position of power. This is very different however, compared to how republicans (both elected and unelected) reacted when the state senator and his wife were assassinated. We had a senator cracking jokes about it the day it happened. Trump and Charlie himself were making jokes and seemingly supporting Paul Pelosi's attacker. We can see it also in this thread. Even assuming the attacker was left of center; notice that the commenters aren't just saying this individual was a problem, retards like etherlake above are saying the whole party is a terrorist organization.

Saying either side is akin to a terror organisation is pretty fucked - serves no purpose, doesn't help anyone or achieve anything aside from cause more incidents like this to happen (and met with simlar praise or indifference). You don't win if you want to eradicatre the opposition, you just turn into a dictatorship. We need a bit of a kumbaya moment here
 
Well earned.
Much like the Nobel awarded to Obama, its a symbol of the potential as much as the achievements. Maybe if we drape accolades around assassinated speakers the bad guys might stop shooting them into martyrdom.

I wonder how many Kirk/Zarutska combined murals we will see pop up in the next few weeks. Hell, I'd paint one around here if it gets me $10k, alas with my (lack of) talent no one would believe me :P
 
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Fox gets the biggest numbers because they're the only right-wing one duh - obviously the liberal audience is split because they way more choice.

Yes the upper courts, but the vast majority of the judiciary is liberal. Thankfully, the upper courts can sometimes provide a check on that, but for the most part these liberal judges are causing a lot of chaos. Ask that Ukrainian girl, for example.

No, judges below federal level are either selected by the states or voted in, so republican states and places will get republican judges, and democratic ones will get democratic judges. You can check how your judges are selected here: https://ballotpedia.org/Judicial_selection_in_the_states

Fox is not the only one, there's also the Sinclair media group that covers 40% of households in America through local channels (which I'll have you know, are very popular for 40+ year olds, 65% of 50+ viewers do watch local news [also fox is super active in this space]), there's newsmax which is the 4 most viewed news channel and others. But largely the reason there's not that many is that Fox is super dominant.

You're not the victim of a system pining against you, you are the system. In the lasts 45 years there's 20 years worth of democratic presidents. America is conservative. Heck, the democrats wouldn't pass off as "left" anywhere other than a country like the USA that is massively shifted to the right.
 
Of course not because that sets a terrible precedent for "all sides". Imagine if this turns into a thing now. Nothing good comes from this. But i'm also not defending this man's views like so many. I'm actually surprised by it.
He has a right to his view, whether we like him or not. If ya do not, ignore him, simple as that.

Taking his life does nothing but further more violence.
 
Yeah but would you end his life? No.
Exactly this. I don't care what he's saying. They are words. Intelligence means being able to coexist with conflicting worldviews because you as a human being are able to recognize that.

Also, he's inviting people to come to him and debate him on these views... he's not following you around, over your shoulder, in your face about these things....he hasn't amassed an army and is oppressing you. He's just a dude with a platform that spouts some pretty hot takes. Ignore it if it bothers you, unless you're a fucking idiot.

Also, 1 in 5 U.S. adults live with mental illness - https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness

Edit: For a many of my points, it should read in the past tense... for example "he was inviting people to come to him........."
 
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Sorry but Intent matters. Speech is not just "air" or just void...it's influence. If someone wakes up everyday yelling hatred toward a group, the reality is your actively contributing to a culture built on hostility....even IF a punch has not been thrown.

Words have power , they shape norms, embolden others and create psychological harm. The idea that someone isn't bad until they act ignores the power of ideas to incite, isolate and erode dignity. You don't need physically harm someone to be morally culpable....you just need to poison the well other drink from.

The well being (college campuses, social media, algorithms etc)
With the way people are talking about him you'd think he went on college campuses saying we need to start gunning down certain ethnicities. I didn't follow Charlie's career uber closely. What I've seen of his takes I disagreed with pretty much all of them. And thought a lot of them silly on top of being objectively wrong. But I hadn't seen something I'd consider vile or mean-spirited with the intent to cause harm. And the guy was willing to go to college campuses and extend an olive branch and try to have conversations with people. He wasn't going there to spew vile hatred or call for the discrimination or elimination of others. He had his beliefs and wanted to express why he felt strongly about them. Perhaps if he had lived he would have changed some of his beliefs. Richard Hanania, for example, went from a guy who would spew white supremacist talking points to doing a complete 180 and basically becoming a guy who regularly argues against Trump and his administration and going after racists and bigots.

If he had been a guy who was going around speaking about how we need to wipe specific demographics off the face of the earth, I'd be far more inclined to agree with you. But from what I've seen of him I'd call him a naive man, at times an ignorant man, perhaps and unlearned man, but not a hateful man.
 
I was today years old when I realized why politics aren't allowed on here. The guy was a total POS and I say this as a cis hetero (not white) male not someone with far left ideology. I can't believe so many on here are defending or at the very least downplaying his views. Anyway sympathy for his daughters not the wife she knew what she married.

This site loves to talk about echo chambers on the purple site. When, in fact this is as well. Just of a different ilk. That's what happens when you grow up with family and friends that tell you how things work in this country without second guessing and seeing for yourself.

It's lazy, but very convenient. Act like an expert, but didn't bother to pick up a book or take a political science class in college to see how divisive the ultra-conservatives and far-left are.

Most of the posts even on this topic are either ill-informed or they've chose a path to be this obtuse. It's easy to spot and it's a reason why this country is divided. Adoring and admiring any politician is a fools errand. Especially, with this administration that is the most corrupt office we've seen in history and a sitting president that's a pedophile.
 
As i said on a different post, the reason why politics aren't allowed in here is because this forum would implode inside out. It was clear today.

People not realizing what kind of damage a guy like this could make by having that sort of influence on young people...and try to defend this guy's views on how every raped woman needing to have those kids (including 10 year old girls), etc...is just something i can't get behind. I just hope no one that agrees with this guy is married or has daughters. If so i feel sorry for them.
I'm pro choice but this is emotional bullshit. It's a hypothetical, and it clearly stems from religious beliefs. Also, if the victims life would be in danger he no longer supported birthing the child, if not them he doesn't support killing the fetus.
 
Soooo...any bets if/when they'll get the guy?

He said that if someone bailed the guy out, they'd be an American hero and patriot. He questioned why he was even locked up

QFT

again, taken out of context. His point was that if democratic DA's and judges are for cashless bail, letting career criminals out with a desk appearance ticket, etc. (like what happened to the black dude who murdered that Ukranian refugee the other day) why wasn't Paul Pelosi's husband's attacker out on bail?

Oh, because the elite follow a different set of rules for themselves than the rest of us plebians.

Someone attacks a prominent left wing politicians' family member. They throw the book at him. Anyone else they let back on the street free to terrorize the ordinary public.
 
This site loves to talk about echo chambers on the purple site. When, in fact this is as well. Just of a different ilk. That's what happens when you grow up with family and friends that tell you how things work in this country without second guessing and seeing for yourself.

It's lazy, but very convenient. Act like an expert, but didn't bother to pick up a book or take a political science class in college to see how divisive the ultra-conservatives and far-left are.

Most of the posts even on this topic are either ill-informed or they've chose a path to be this obtuse. It's easy to spot and it's a reason why this country is divided. Adoring and admiring any politician is a fools errand. Especially, with this administration that is the most corrupt office we've seen in history and a sitting president that's a pedophile.
First Half GIF
 
I'm pro choice but this is emotional bullshit. It's a hypothetical, and it clearly stems from religious beliefs. Also, if the victims life would be in danger he no longer supported birthing the child, if not them he doesn't support killing the fetus.
Yes, I disagree strongly with the views and have no animosity for the guy. I have a very close family member who is gay and I'm guessing Charlie would not support that person. I have a sister I'm sure Charlie would want to carry an unwanted child. Like I previously mentioned, billions in the world feel this way. Including most conservatives. Are they all pieces of shit? If the answer to that question is "yes" I think it's the one who answers yes who needs to look in the mirror, if you view the world that cynically.
 
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I think it was the Mossad. For the Zionist entity, it doesn't matter whether you're pro or anti-Israel, and Kirk recently expressed criticism of Israel. The USA is controlled by the blackmail operation (Epstein), whether it's government or opposition.

I also think the goal is to radicalize both left and right to cause even more chaos. The goal is to build a political agenda/direction that supports Israels international plan to establish a Greater Israel in the Middle East.

I'm worried about Momdami now. They've incited the right, and maybe they're now trying to target the left.
Normal people with common sense who have not yet been indoctrinated should be able to see what is going on.
 
With the way people are talking about him you'd think he went on college campuses saying we need to start gunning down certain ethnicities. I didn't follow Charlie's career uber closely. What I've seen of his takes I disagreed with pretty much all of them. And thought a lot of them silly on top of being objectively wrong. But I hadn't seen something I'd consider vile or mean-spirited with the intent to cause harm. And the guy was willing to go to college campuses and extend an olive branch and try to have conversations with people. He wasn't going there to spew vile hatred or call for the discrimination or elimination of others. He had his beliefs and wanted to express why he felt strongly about them. Perhaps if he had lived he would have changed some of his beliefs. Richard Hanania, for example, went from a guy who would spew white supremacist talking points to doing a complete 180 and basically becoming a guy who regularly argues against Trump and his administration and going after racists and bigots.

If he had been a guy who was going around speaking about how we need to wipe specific demographics off the face of the earth, I'd be far more inclined to agree with you. But from what I've seen of him I'd call him a naive man, at times an ignorant man, perhaps and unlearned man, but not a hateful man.

To me he was grifter, i think he said shit to get a reaction , i've seen the way he debates i don't think he goes into them being genuine and trying to learn from the opposing side. He isn't the only who does this , alot of people do, to rage bait or get a reaction out of people. SO i stopped watching him because i think he's manipulative/divisive. people can also hide what they really think though but everyone has room to change as well.

Morality is a big thing to me, it not just about what you do with it. It's also about what you believe and how those beliefs affect the world. If you're world view for example is to dehumanize people even silently, your laying the groundwork for harm. Your ideas are seeds, some growing into violence and others into justice. I just think pretending that speech is neutral until it explodes is dangerously naive.
 
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My question is why didn't his security team have a drone operator scouting out tops of buildings?

The shooter followed the same playbook as the Trump shooter. They should have been prepared for a scenario like this.
 
Scary_Larry Scary_Larry
This site loves to talk about echo chambers on the purple site. When, in fact this is as well. Just of a different ilk. That's what happens when you grow up with family and friends that tell you how things work in this country without second guessing and seeing for yourself.

It's lazy, but very convenient. Act like an expert, but didn't bother to pick up a book or take a political science class in college to see how divisive the ultra-conservatives and far-left are.

Most of the posts even on this topic are either ill-informed or they've chose a path to be this obtuse. It's easy to spot and it's a reason why this country is divided. Adoring and admiring any politician is a fools errand. Especially, with this administration that is the most corrupt office we've seen in history and a sitting president that's a pedophile.
It's also an online forum - a format where you don't need any skin in the game to participate - it's really low threat.

Additionally, you can spend your time carefully curating a response crafted with nuance and research, etc. There's no real time dialog taking place like with in person interaction. No feedback. Not only that, but if your spending all that time trying to prove your point, are you really taking the time to listen to any body else's opinion. Why is it such a scary proposition to change one's mind on a matter.
 
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Landlords are not architects, and architecture has a bunch of rules and practices to follow in order to build according to regulations
Yeah, but I would have thought local regulations would generally prevent this as well; (but "fire escape" access would be another exception.)

I haven't gone around looking for roof access in buildings, but the ones I'm familiar with don't allow the public to easily access the roof.
 
Yeah, but I would have thought local regulations would generally prevent this as well; (but "fire escape" access would be another exception.)

I haven't gone around looking for roof access in buildings, but the ones I'm familiar with don't allow the public to easily access the roof.
Colleges have buildings over 100 years old. You think they were thinking about rooftop snipers?

And to get money to fix that takes time. They are stingy on funding.
 
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