Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah campus event

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Trilobit said:
Julia: "I think some people should be afraid to express their opinions in public"

Also Julia: *deletes and privates all her social media accounts*

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That's comrade julia to you, sir, and only her comrades will be reading her posts from here on out.
 
delirium trigger said:
That's comrade julia to you, sir, and only her comrades will be reading her posts from here on out.
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I'm pretty sure that as she offered her hot take in front of the class, her comrades, I mean classmates, mostly agreed with her, or even applauded, to the point that she felt emboldened and proud enough of her intelligence to spread her views to the whole world. Maybe she'll realize that a liberal arts classroom in college isn't a representation of the whole country.
 
Even if this person can't be pigeon holed perfectly into "democrat/republican"

The places he was reading online convinced him that Charlie Kirk was a threat to his boyfriend. Not one person convinced him, a whole community of people (probably left leaning folks)

So whether that be Reddit, reset, YouTube, wherever. Somewhere the narrative that "Charlie Kirk is a Nazi" was being spouted somewhere. That's where the Goverment should be looking. Stomp out the emphatically disabled assholes.
 
Grildon Tundy said:
My false flag-dar is going off on this one. Seems more likely someone would order CK's favorite drink and write that for clout than for a Starbucks employee to write it and the person who ordered not immediately going back in to get them fired.
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Normally I would say yes to it being obviously fake but all of what has happened lately, makes me not sure about anything. Reactions online have been FAR more insidious than this.
 
Sometimes I have to remind myself that there are people who genuinely don't know what a libertarian is. If you think someone with views like Rand Paul or John Stossel would do a shooting like this, you're seriously out of touch. They're too busy trolling state institutions to get a double digit voter turnout
 
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I am still in denial.

We are closing one week since the incident. It is still so surreal.

I really want to believe he never got shot. That he is behind the scenes with "gotcha" recovery after we catched the asshole who did it.

It has been such a big part in my last week. I keep Thinking alot about it.

When I first saw this thread I clicked into Twitter, and was so unfortunate to see a video auto play what happened. I really wish it didn't. I cannot get that hideous clip out of my head.

I feel so utterly fucking sad over it.

I am trying to reach out to God despite having been an atheist my entire life.
But Kirk was so strong in his faith, that it has somehow manifested in me.
 
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As satisfying as it is to see the proponents of cancel culture have to face their own weapon I strongly disagree with Pam Bondi about hate speech laws.

If you summon demons your enemy will eventually use them against you. The far left has been calling for hate speech laws in America for a while and if they get that tool they will fully use it and it won't take much.
 
Woggleman said:
As satisfying as it is to see the proponents of cancel culture have to face their own weapon I strongly disagree with Pam Bondi about hate speech laws.

If you summon demons your enemy will eventually use them against you. The far left has been calling for hate speech laws in America for a while and if they get that tool they will fully use it and it won't take much.
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Pam Bondi needs to go back to Florida and deal with State law. She is in over her head on the federal level. Charlie would be the 1st one to say she is wrong. There is no such thing as hate speech. There is only free speech. What you say may have consequences, that is it. It is that simple.
 
Woggleman said:
As satisfying as it is to see the proponents of cancel culture have to face their own weapon I strongly disagree with Pam Bondi about hate speech laws.

If you summon demons your enemy will eventually use them against you. The far left has been calling for hate speech laws in America for a while and if they get that tool they will fully use it and it won't take much.
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They are already using it. I'd agree with the general idea, but it's too late. The passiveness of the cultural Right has allowed a poisonous discourse to become predominant and this can't be reversed by playing nice. They need to suffer the consequences of the monster they created in order to interiorize how bad things can get for them. Then, we sit at the negotiation table.
 
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Angry_Megalodon said:
They are already using it. I'd agree with the general idea, but it's too late. The passiveness of the cultural Right has allowed a poisonous discourse to become predominant and this can't be reversed by playing nice. They need to suffer the consequences of the monster they created in order to interiorize how bad things can get for them. Then, we sit at the negotiation table.
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I wouldn't call the right passive. They rallied behind and elected Trump and handed him a red congress. The tone had already changed this year suppressing a lot of the lefts social ideologies. They (the far left) know the writings on the wall and now they're lashing out.

I bet we are gonna find out, not only did the left do this, but that it will end up being a premeditated conspiracy and a lot of people will get dragged in. And once the mainstream sees this as a leftist conspiracy, the democrats are virtually done in politics.

This is why I, as a democrat spoke out against the grave dancing on Famiboards because the writing is on the wall and nothing good will from from it. The Democratic Party will be permanently scarred. I got banned for it.
 
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Angry_Megalodon said:
They are already using it. I'd agree with the general idea, but it's too late. The passiveness of the cultural Right has allowed a poisonous discourse to become predominant and this can't be reversed by playing nice. They need to suffer the consequences of the monster they created in order to interiorize how bad things can get for them. Then, we sit at the negotiation table.
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At the moment there are no hate speech laws because there is a first amendment. Once that is done away with then the genie will not go back in the lamp. It won't be long before even a Charlie Kirk shirt will get you arrested. Believe me you do not want to go down this road.

Ten years ago I told liberal friends that one day this woke stuff would seriously backfire. They called me crazy and I lost some friends but look at where we are today.

Don't make the same mistake.
 
Scrawnton said:
I wouldn't call the right passive. They rallied behind and elected Trump and handed him a red congress. The tone had already changed this year suppressing a lot of the lefts social ideologies. They (the far left) know the writings on the wall and now they're lashing out.

I bet we are gonna find out, not only did the left do this, but that it will end up being a premeditated conspiracy and a lot of people will get dragged in. And once the mainstream sees this as a leftist conspiracy, the democrats are virtually done in politics.

This is why I, as a democrat spoke out against the grave dancing on Famiboards because the writing is on the wall and nothing good will from from it. The Democratic Party will be permanently scarred. I got banned for it.
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This is the shit that's the most insane to me. I'm on the left too, and I would have called myself extremely progressive barely a decade ago. I've been in the exact same situation, where I've been banned and lost friends over the sentiment that this is a bad path to go down, and a LOSING path to go down. "Guys, I'm on your side, and we need to be better than this" is a pretty tame piece of constructive criticism. But it's apparently more than they can handle. It's infantile, narcissistic behavior.
 
Every time I check into this thread. I feel like I'm in bizarro world. I don't agree with any of Kirk's ideals, takes, beliefs and stances. I think the people defending and downplaying his beliefs are the real problem. Hate me all you want that's just my take as a "normal" Mexican American man.
 
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Angry_Megalodon said:
They are already using it. I'd agree with the general idea, but it's too late. The passiveness of the cultural Right has allowed a poisonous discourse to become predominant and this can't be reversed by playing nice. They need to suffer the consequences of the monster they created in order to interiorize how bad things can get for them. Then, we sit at the negotiation table.
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I find people are generally geared towards being tolerant and so will accommodate different viewpoints in order to work and live with others. In that sense, this isn't something that can be blamed on one side of the political spectrum. That tolerance is not a negative trait and it's not reasonable to blame it for the extremes we are presently seeing. However, it is fair to say that extremists have been taking advantage of it and are now in the stage where they are finding out it is not inexhaustible and that it was indeed tolerance all along - not acceptance.
 
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Doomtrain said:
This is the shit that's the most insane to me. I'm on the left too, and I would have called myself extremely progressive barely a decade ago. I've been in the exact same situation, where I've been banned and lost friends over the sentiment that this is a bad path to go down, and a LOSING path to go down. "Guys, I'm on your side, and we need to be better than this" is a pretty tame piece of constructive criticism. But it's apparently more than they can handle. It's infantile, narcissistic behavior.
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In defiance you should refer to yourself as liberal and not "left," as Charlie once put it:

 
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Days like these... said:
Every time I check into this thread. I feel like I'm in bizarro world. I don't agree with any of Kirk's ideals, takes, beliefs and stances. I think the people defending and downplaying his beliefs, fascists, nazis and racists are the real problem. Hate me all you want that's just my take as a "normal" Mexican American man.
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I feel the same with basically any social media. That's why I largely avoid it. It's a crazy crazy world for sure. Being able to travel, be surrounded by nature, getting immersed in a different environment and detoxing from this political climate is such a blessing for me.
 
Mistake said:
Sometimes I have to remind myself that there are people who genuinely don't know what a libertarian is. If you think someone with views like Rand Paul or John Stossel would do a shooting like this, you're seriously out of touch. They're too busy trolling state institutions to get a double digit voter turnout
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Your libertarian comment reminded me of when Reddit was all about Ron Paul back in 2011/12, when both he and Obama could get front page posts.

Back in a time when on Reddit you could have people say "He doesn't believe in evolution, but he's against the war on drugs, he opposes NSA surveillance, is against foreign intervention, and supports Internet freedom, so I find a lot to agree with" instead of "Won't say some pronouns? Literal Nazi" thread locked for wrong think.
 
Days like these... said:
Every time I check into this thread. I feel like I'm in bizarro world. I don't agree with any of Kirk's ideals, takes, beliefs and stances. I think the people defending and downplaying his beliefs, fascists, nazis and racists are the real problem. Hate me all you want that's just my take as a "normal" Mexican American man.
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Define fascist.
 
I wonder if they try to get a guilty plea from the shooter and still retain the death penalty, perhaps by not charging his boyfriend. Maybe sparing him (the roommate) from years in a men's prison would get the shooter to cooperate and save all the money and time of a trial.
 
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12Goblins said:
From what I'm seeing, if you had to pin down what drove him to do this it seems his core beliefs are rooted in libertarianism; believing that grown adults should be able to make their own choices about their sexuality or identity, free of discrimination and persecution. These are libertarians ideals. I'm not seeing anywhere how he was in any way involved in any socialist , leftist, or democratic groups, yet that's all that's being posted everywhere.
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A libertarian assassin, that's the narrative you are going with? Has there EVER been one of those? That ideology seems about as far away from violent action of this nature as it gets.
 
Kotaro said:
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Bro I'm sure this is garbage. The NYPost article on this subject says Bongino is saying even the guy who asked the question is a suspect, which we already know is garbage.

It's fine and normal to speculate and entertain all possibilities, especially when there are still so many unknowns, but when all is said is done and and we find that trans people had nothing to do with this, aside from the trans partner whose entire world probably collapsed on that fateful day, will you look back and say "Why did we try so hard to somehow pin this on trans people?", from the bullets being engraved with trans ideology, the shooter being trans, the trans roommate or some wider reaching trans ideology being responsible for his indoctrination, etc? No, you won't, and that's what a lot a lot of people have problems with, if you want to go full circle.
 
jason10mm said:
A libertarian assassin, that's the narrative you are going with? Has there EVER been one of those? That ideology seems about as far away from violent action of this nature as it gets.
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Brother all I'm saying is that based from what we currently know, all his beliefs and attitudes can be ascribed to him being a libertarian just as much as being a leftist / progressive. That is to say, it's pure conjecture.

edit: all I was trying to say* rather
 
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Jaybe said:
I wonder if they try to get a guilty plea from the shooter and still retain the death penalty, perhaps by not charging his boyfriend. Maybe sparing him (the roommate) from years in a men's prison would get the shooter to cooperate and save all the money and time of a trial.
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I still feel like the bf knew more than it appears. Regardless, I hope everyone involved gets held accountable and not let off the hook.
 
12Goblins said:
Brother all I'm saying is that based from what we currently know, all his beliefs and attitudes can be ascribed to him being a libertarian just as much as being a leftist / progressive. That is to say, it's pure conjecture.
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There is ONE hoop this guy has to jump through to be a looney wacko far left antifa terrorist in line with the writings on the bullets, but about a DOZEN to work through some sort of freedom loving libertarian living in a free country to come around on CHARLIE KIRK of all people to be the guy you decide to shoot.

Imma going with the simplest choice.
 
I feel bad for Fetterman. He's trying his hardest to get out there and have a real conversation while the rest of his party is doing what they always do. Shame there aren't more like him.
 
12Goblins said:
Brother all I'm saying is that based from what we currently know, all his beliefs and attitudes can be ascribed to him being a libertarian just as much as being a leftist / progressive. That is to say, it's pure conjecture.

edit: all I was trying to say* rather
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Absolute nonsense. And I've already addressed that.

ResurrectedContrarian said:
I disagree with this characterization; libertarians believe in free choices and free association and discourse. In other words, they will defend someone's right to have whatever sex life they want free from state intervention and defend the rights of a nearby church school to openly teach and hire staff in line with a belief against homosexuality. In other words, freedom not just at the hyper-individualist level but also at the group level of letting people build associations out of strongly held beliefs and live them out in the public square. They will defend the right of a trans "woman" to walk into your coffee shop dressed however they like without violent or legal repercussions -- and also defend your right as the business to say "sir" to him instead of "ma'am" no matter how much that angers him.

The progressive/left twist on this is very different. It claims that even having to come into contact with people who don't follow and affirm your identity amounts to violence. So instead of a hands-off approach of letting discourse, free association, and the market play out on their own, they try to enforce an entire legal regime built around a small set of their favored "protected classes." And in so doing, they openly and gleefully end up limiting the freedom of businesses, religious groups, political groups etc.

Tyler is in the latter group. His concept that "hate can't be negotiated with" and his antifa symbols on the bullets tell us everything.
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"all his beliefs and attitudes can be ascribed to him being a libertarian just as much as being a leftist / progressive" -- absolutely absurd and indefensible position.

If you're expanding the definition of libertarian to include people who believe debaters must be killed because their words are hateful, you're not talking about libertarians at all. That's exactly what defines a progressive leftist.

I think you're trying to say something like "we don't know his economic views" and then using an extraordinarily simplified mental political matrix where the only difference between libertarians and progressive leftists is that they differ on economics. But that would be totally blind to what constitutes cultural progressive leftism and sets it apart dramatically from cultural libertarianism, which have almost no resemblance to each other even when you ignore all economic views.

Antifa isn't "libertarian cultural views plus different economic views." If you think about how incredibly absurd that formula would be, you begin to see the problem here.
 
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