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[Omnipunctual Godot]

I want that hat.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Wait, so they are releasing a $1500 Mini-PC?

LOL

My hope is it's a $1500 mini-PC with the power of a $2500 or $3000 Lenovo Legion prebuilt PC.
PC build standards have stagnated in design, resulting in prices climbing to unobtainium status.

This will give PC a good kick in the butt, or at least poke it with a stick to see if it's still alive.

 

[GHG]

Never thought i'd see the day you abandoned Playstation damn

You must know something I don't then.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

Wait, Xbox is making a next gen console?

Haven't you heard? Everything is an xbox.

 

[Felessan]

My hope is it's a $1500 mini-PC with the power of a $2500 or $3000 Lenovo Legion prebuilt PC.
PC build standards have stagnated in design, resulting in prices climbing to unobtainium status.

This will give PC a good kick in the butt, or at least poke it with a stick to see if it's still alive.

It will be with the power of 1200$ prebuilt PC. MS ain't gonna charity PC players

 

[Magic Carpet]

It will be with the power of 1200$ prebuilt PC. MS ain't gonna charity PC players

Yea MS will probably drop the ball no matter what.
I'm talking about this SOC design. Currently when I upgrade my PC I have to replace everything anyway so might as well stick all the parts in one flat design with one heatsink and one cooling fan.

 

[paolo11]

So forgive my ignorance but basically this is just a pre built PC that's called Xbox?

 

[Tobimacoss]

So forgive my ignorance but basically this is just a pre built PC that's called Xbox?

No, it's a Console, that will run Console optimized games. They will also have Xbox PCs to take on the pre built PCs from other vendors.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Little does this child know that he too… is an Xbox

 

[adamsapple]

So forgive my ignorance but basically this is just a pre built PC that's called Xbox?

In the sense that the current PS5/Series consoles also use mostly off the shelf PC adjacent parts, yes.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

In the sense that the current PS5/Series consoles also use mostly off the shelf PC adjacent parts, yes.

If Steam is included then the business model is completely different to PlayStation.

A business model already dominated by PC.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I listened to this episode and he was surprisingly friendly towards Xbox and I actually agreed.

I'd actually dig a Magnus console if I could install Linux Bazzite on it.

 

[paolo11]

No, it's a Console, that will run Console optimized games. They will also have Xbox PCs to take on the pre built PCs from other vendors.

Ah ok . Well that's good they are back in the game but they need to step up their support for games. I miss the 360 days

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yes...he's been right about a lot. People who claim he gets a lot wrong clearly don't actually listen to what he says.


this shit is getting tiring, he has been quite accurate these past few years.

 

[SABRE220]

I have said before but 99% their "greatest leap ever" is going to be AI perf comparison using FP16 Vector on Series X (24 TFlops) vs Sparse Matrix FP4 on Magnus (~3000 TFlops)

Wait 3000tflops did you mean TOPS?. I'm assuming this is specifically in specialized ML workload scenarios, and this level of disparity is going to be in extremely niche scenarios? Also, I remember you mentioned this was in the 4090 tier of compute/output do you think this is still the case?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Has this guy ever been right?

A lot actually. This tells me you don't actually listen to what he says.

 

[Gaiff]

My hope is it's a $1500 mini-PC with the power of a $2500 or $3000 Lenovo Legion prebuilt PC.
PC build standards have stagnated in design, resulting in prices climbing to unobtainium status.

This will give PC a good kick in the butt, or at least poke it with a stick to see if it's still alive.

What are you talking about? You can build a 9060 XT-centered PC for about $900. How is this unaffordable?

 

[twilo99]

Going from 24 to 3000 is a giant freaking leap, so it makes sense. Even if that statement was regarding AI performance, there's still quite a bit of leaps in other stuff. Going from 2080 tier Series X to rtx 5080 tier Magnus in Rasterization, and whatever multiplier for Ray Tracing.

Let's not forget that the series x runs on a very weak and outdated CPU architecture so I think even just the CPU upgrade should be considered quite the "leap"

 

[reinking]

The console wars don't exist anymore. Phil already conceded they lost. Your like one of those Japanese still fighting the war on a small island not realizing your country has already surrendered.

Oh boy. When Xbox announces specs it is going to be the same war that has been fought before. There is still enough vocal greenies to keep it interesting. Then there is the "just build pc" group, which is great advice for ex-Xbox players but that ignores the PlayStation users that have no reason to give up the ecosystem/consoles they have already chosen.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

No, it's a Console, that will run Console optimized games. They will also have Xbox PCs to take on the pre built PCs from other vendors.

 

[SABRE220]

Do you have any idea if this will run windows and allow steam? If so its the best of both worlds and suddenly the next xbox becomes a very tasty product.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Do you have any idea if this will run windows and allow steam? If so its the best of both worlds and suddenly the next xbox becomes a very tasty product.

I still stand beside the whole it will run Steam on the console statement that I have been saying for quite awhile now

Full blown Windows on the console I dunno about that

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Oh boy. When Xbox announces specs it is going to be the same war that has been fought before. There is still enough vocal greenies to keep it interesting.

No, it won't be the same war.

This time, it will be centred around things that are not nebulous.

There will be big price differences, and one will be open marketplace.

 

[Karim]

In the sense that the current PS5/Series consoles also use mostly off the shelf PC adjacent parts, yes.

 

[Rob_27]

I think the most annoying thing about the series consoles is the clicky controller. I bet there will be a dual sense equivalent.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I think the most annoying thing about the series consoles is the clicky controller. I bet there will be a dual sense equivalent.

Elite Series 3 SHOULD be announced soon

 

[SABRE220]

I still stand beside the whole it will run Steam on the console statement that I have been saying for quite awhile now

Full blown Windows on the console I dunno about that

Wow, that would be a power move in terms of boosting consumer value, but how do you think Microsoft will sustain their ecosystem and subscriptions since against a juggernaut like Steam, even Game Pass before the price hike would struggle. Also is there any talk of how they are going to ensure compatibility with pc games with their new hardware?

 

[Thebonehead]

Because 1 year from A0 tapeout to release, specially for a console which has extra time for devkits is pretty much impossible.

Is there even a need for a devkit any more if they are going the hybrid approach of Steam / Gamepass?

The Xbox piece will just be the BC on the console I assume.

 

[Thebonehead]

Elite Series 3 SHOULD be announced soon

The Sebile one or whatever it was called?

 

[djjinx2]

Wow, that would be a power move in terms of boosting consumer value, but how do you think Microsoft will sustain their ecosystem and subscriptions since against a juggernaut like Steam, even Game Pass before the price hike would struggle. Also is there any talk of how they are going to ensure compatibility with pc games with their new hardware?

Not making a loss on hardware, being the biggest publisher in the world, selling GamePass and games on their own store also. Making Xbox self sustainable and raking in billions

Keeping Windows relevant to PC gaming is another huge plus for them as SteamOS grows ever more popular

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Wow, that would be a power move in terms of boosting consumer value, but how do you think Microsoft will sustain their ecosystem and subscriptions since against a juggernaut like Steam, even Game Pass before the price hike would struggle. Also is there any talk of how they are going to ensure compatibility with pc games with their new hardware?

No clue on how they plan on marketing this thing, likely will sell way worse than current Series consoles

The Sebile one or whatever it was called?

I THINK it has some of the Sebile's features but its a different controller overall

 

[Magic Carpet]

What are you talking about? You can build a 9060 XT-centered PC for about $900. How is this unaffordable?

If a standard design PC box can be built for $900. Then I assume this SOC can be be built for less.
$1500 would get even more power. $2000 even more.
I'm just saying PC's as they are built today have become too expensive for the asking price.
Would be even better if these things could be available to me the bog standard gamer and not competing with giant multibillion dollar AI farms.

 

[MisterXDTV]

No, it's a Console, that will run Console optimized games. They will also have Xbox PCs to take on the pre built PCs from other vendors.

The moment it runs Steam, the console mantra is gone

It's a PC, no matter how much they try to spin it to confuse customers

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of games for a machine that runs PC software

 

[Zathalus]

If a standard design PC box can be built for $900. Then I assume this SOC can be be built for less.
$1500 would get even more power. $2000 even more.
I'm just saying PC's as they are built today have become too expensive for the asking price.
Would be even better if these things could be available to me the bog standard gamer and not competing with giant multibillion dollar AI farms.

$900 is for a 9060 XT which is slightly above a PS5 Pro in power as a comparison point. You can do a 5060 PC (above regular PS5 to compare) for about $650.

PC gaming (in the low to mid range) has increased in pricing slower relative to consoles over the past decade. Only at the upper GPU range has pricing gotten out of control.

 

[Felessan]

If a standard design PC box can be built for $900. Then I assume this SOC can be be built for less.
$1500 would get even more power. $2000 even more.
I'm just saying PC's as they are built today have become too expensive for the asking price.
Would be even better if these things could be available to me the bog standard gamer and not competing with giant multibillion dollar AI farms.

You can buy component for a standard design PC for 900$. You are not buying nifty pre-build PC for 900$.
Prebuild SoC would have similar price for components + assembly cost

 

[Tobimacoss]

The moment it runs Steam, the console mantra is gone

It's a PC, no matter how much they try to spin it to confuse customers

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of games for a machine that runs PC software

Is it a PC if it has no desktop mode and file system access?

When an iPad used to run iOS apps, did it become an iPhone? MS is going to keep a certain level of differentiation in form factors.

Devs are going to be making Xbox ecosystem versions regardless. Unless you think EA, Ubisoft, Epic who are now part of Gamepass Ultimate, will stop making GDKX created and optimized Xbox versions even though their stores would be accessible on the Consoles?

Xbox store will still be the default front facing store. Devs can't get their games on that store, Gamepass, or xCloud without an Xbox certified version.

 

[Gaiff]

If a standard design PC box can be built for $900. Then I assume this SOC can be be built for less.
$1500 would get even more power. $2000 even more.
I'm just saying PC's as they are built today have become too expensive for the asking price.
Would be even better if these things could be available to me the bog standard gamer and not competing with giant multibillion dollar AI farms.

This is nonsensical. PCs have always cost more pound for pound than consoles and unlike consoles this generation, PC parts either come down in price or you get better parts at the same price.

If anything, the $750 PS5 Pro, $650 Series X, and $550 PS5 should have you raise an eyebrow. Their value proposition compared to PCs have actually decreased from 5 years ago. A $1000 PC netted you a $500 PS5 performance in 2021. Now it's a $750 PS5 Pro+.

You can't look at PC parts and say things are bad when consoles have been increasing in price for old-ass components.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Is it a PC if it has no desktop mode and file system access?

Yes, it's just a gaming PC

 

[Magic Carpet]

This is nonsensical. PCs have always cost more pound for pound than consoles and unlike consoles this generation, PC parts either come down in price or you get better parts at the same price.

If anything, the $750 PS5 Pro, $650 Series X, and $550 PS5 should have you raise an eyebrow. Their value proposition compared to PCs have actually decreased from 5 years ago. A $1000 PC netted you a $500 PS5 performance in 2021. Now it's a $750 PS5 Pro+.

You can't look at PC parts and say things are bad when consoles have been increasing in parts for old-ass components.

Then I don't understand the point of a PC SOC at all. If you can't get the same power for cheaper. OR rather more power for less money, Why bother? Whats the F'n point? Small form factor the only upside? If so, I'll Just keep on sticking the GPU into the side of motherboard and call it a day.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Yes, it's just a gaming PC

Primary function of the device is still to act and serve as a Console.

So 10 foot UI/UX designed for TVs aka the Xbox OS Shell.

Controller based primary input.

GDKX optimized games to the fixed spec hardware.

Console specific policies like Game Sharing

PC games would just be an added secondary function, within a separate isolated, secure environment. Device is still a Console.

Then I don't understand the point of a PC SOC at all. If you can't get the same power for cheaper. OR rather more power for less money, Why bother? Whats the F'n point? Small form factor the only upside? If so, I'll Just keep on sticking the GPU into the side of motherboard and call it a day.

The point is Xbox Console library compatibility, both BC and FC. If you are a Console gamer, wanting to buy a laptop, you have a choice between a regular laptop or an Xbox Laptop which could run those console games, same shared licensing. What is that person more likely to choose?

Basically, every AMD chiplet GPU is an Xbox compatible device going forward. Just needs to be paired up with the Magnus SOC, which includes CPU, and media die plus bridge die to connect the SOC with GPU.

A Magnus powered Xbox PC should still be far cheaper than the Nvidia counterpart.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The point is Xbox Console library compatibility, both BC and FC. If you are a Console gamer, wanting to buy a laptop, you have a choice between a regular laptop or an Xbox Laptop which could run those console games, same shared licensing. What is that person more likely to choose?

Basically, every AMD chiplet GPU is an Xbox compatible device going forward. Just needs to be paired up with the Magnus SOC, which includes CPU, and media die plus bridge die to connect the SOC with GPU.

A Magnus powered Xbox PC should still be far cheaper than the Nvidia counterpart.

Yea this is my major malfunction. I don't give a rats ass about old XBox games on PC.
I need a thread about the PC SOC stuff. A place about PC with none of this xbox baggage.
for me it's PC PC PC

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Then I don't understand the point of a PC SOC at all. If you can't get the same power for cheaper. OR rather more power for less money, Why bother? Whats the F'n point? Small form factor the only upside? If so, I'll Just keep on sticking the GPU into the side of motherboard and call it a day.

Consoles at launch offer better value. 3 yrs down the line, its a different story. I suspect that could be the situation here also.

Hopefully we get a complete refresh of magnus every 4-5 yrs, even if its not a generational leap. That way it will keep offering good value for most of its life, while keeping up with advancements in pc space.

 

[pacman4000]

The wattage is indicative of how much power the silicon takes. Less chip, power required. In general. Stuff can throw it off.

Nah...the question was asked based on the assumption that the electronics remain constant. Only the wattage (i.e. the clocks) was changed (from 160W to 250W or so). What would the added cost then be?

 

[yogaflame]

Yes, it's just a gaming PC

It should not be categorize as console anymore, but a gaming PC since it is rumored to be just like Alienware.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

PS5 has 300tops, something is wrong...

 

[Bojji]

PS5 has 300tops, something is wrong...

This is for NPU on CPU.

GPU will have shit ton of Tops power separate from that.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

This is for NPU on CPU.

GPU will have shit ton of Tops power separate from that.

Ow ok, it makes sense

 

[Celcius]

A lot actually. This tells me you don't actually listen to what he says.

I don't even know who he is, hence me asking

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

and again cerny will show ps6 is just as capable as magnus despite the power differences

 

[reinking]

No, it won't be the same war.

This time, it will be centred around things that are not nebulous.

There will be big price differences, and one will be open marketplace.

Same teams. Different ammo.