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[Critical Hit]

The 6080 will almost certainly be slower than a 5090. It will probably match or slightly beat a 4090.

"Almost certainly" based on what?

a New Hardware Compression tech not presented yet on nividia gpus

Hardware compression was presented in the video in my previous post, working on 5090. And I'm not sure if bandwidth would be a problem on PC.

 

[GymWolf]

Why don't we think they will do like third party studios currently porting their games to switch 2 like resident evil requiem or chronos and even there are rumors about gta6 coming to it, so ps6 Protable with far better gpu than switch2, upscalled 2k resolution and rdna 5 based gpu even it's if row performance ~50% ps5 it's architecture are far higher, in the end I want to say Protable ps6 won't cause a problem considering it won't be that hardto run ps6 games on far lower resolution and without some techs like path tracing

I love your optimism but they are still forced to develop with a tablet cpu in mind.

 

[Msamy]

"Almost certainly" based on what?


Hardware compression was presented in the video in my previous post, working on 5090. And I'm not sure if bandwidth would be a problem on PC.

The PS6 iteration will be different than any nividia version as per K KeplerL2 i posted his comments above

 

[Msamy]

I love your optimism but they are still forced to develop with a tablet cpu in mind.

You may be right but I don't see them investment this much on ps6 to end with ps6 Protable limits

 

[dgrdsv]

ps6 will have tech (Neural arrays) similar to nividia High End database GPUs not like regular gaming RTX GPUs

"Neural arrays" is basically "tensor cores". Present in Nvidia h/w since Turing, got some rendering oriented optimizations in Blackwell.

and a New Hardware Compression tech not presented yet on nividia gpus

We don't know what is present and what isn't inside Nvidia GPUs. This is a completely internal thing which they may have for years as well.

From what AMD and Sony said yesterday pretty much everything is already in GeForce. They are catching up though which is a good thing.

 

[KeplerL2]

"Neural arrays" is basically "tensor cores". Present in Nvidia h/w since Turing, got some rendering oriented optimizations in Blackwell.

No, it's AMD's version of Hopper's Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-hopper-architecture-in-depth/#thread_block_clusters

Which is interesting because while NVIDIA has had it for a while they never brought it to gaming GPUs.

 

[icecold1983]

"Almost certainly" based on what?

The considerable reduction in improvements smaller nodes are offering as well as the increasing cost to produce these chips. They can not continue raising prices and TDP indefinitely if they expect these GPUs to actually sell.

Hardware compression was presented in the video in my previous post, working on 5090. And I'm not sure if bandwidth would be a problem on PC.

My takeaway was that this is similar to delta color compression but applied to the entire GPU as opposed to just the graphics queue. So work done in the compute queue for example will now benefit. We have no idea whether or not this already exists in nvidia GPUs since they stopped giving useful information about how their hardware actually works almost a decade ago.

 

[Radical_3d]

The considerable reduction in improvements smaller nodes are offering as well as the increasing cost to produce these chips. They can not continue raising prices and TDP indefinitely if they expect these GPUs to actually sell.

Or power cables to hold...

 

[winjer]

No, it's AMD's version of Hopper's Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-hopper-architecture-in-depth/#thread_block_clusters

Which is interesting because while NVIDIA has had it for a while they never brought it to gaming GPUs.

In a way, this looks like what Intel and AMD have been using in their CPUs for their L3 caches being shared by all cores.
So not only the cache works like a cache but also as a ring bus.

 

[Msamy]

"Neural arrays" is basically "tensor cores". Present in Nvidia h/w since Turing, got some rendering oriented optimizations in Blackwell.


We don't know what is present and what isn't inside Nvidia GPUs. This is a completely internal thing which they may have for years as well.

From what AMD and Sony said yesterday pretty much everything is already in GeForce. They are catching up though which is a good thing.

K KeplerL2 comments, PS6 Neural array tech not presented on nividia gaming GPUs.

 

[Critical Hit]

i posted his comments above

I saw this, but it doesn't mean it would be a game changer vs Nvidia (but it absolutely is vs ps5). One of the selling points of ps5 was a fast ssd and Kraken, and 5 years later we have the Yotei as the most advanced PS5 graphics..

The considerable reduction in improvements smaller nodes are offering as well as the increasing cost to produce these chips.

What you're talking about is more about rasterization. Rasterization as a driver of progress in graphics is practically dead. More specialized cores will provide a significant increase in path tracing and ml features, that's why Cerny talked exclusively about them in the video.

 

[Msamy]

I saw this, but it doesn't mean it would be a game changer vs Nvidia (but it absolutely is vs ps5). One of the selling points of ps5 was a fast ssd and Kraken, and 5 years later we have the Yotei as the most advanced graphics of PS5..


What you're talking about is more about rasterization. Rasterization as a driver of progress in graphics is practically dead. More specialized cores will provide a significant increase in path tracing and ml features, that's why Cerny talked exclusively about them in the video.

My main goal of talking above is not to ps6 challenge nividia or pc, I am taking about ps6 will have great upgrade and investment on techs far better than what they did with ps5 by the time of its release

 

[icecold1983]

What you're talking about is more about rasterization. Rasterization as a driver of progress in graphics is practically dead. More specialized cores will provide a significant increase in path tracing and ml features, that's why Cerny talked exclusively about them in the video.

It applies to everything. The issue youre reffering to WRT rasterization is the inability to efficiently calculate accurate light transport due to the limits of how rasterization functions. The performance falls off a cliff and actually becomes slower than RT. This is a completely separate issue from hardware performance scaling. You can just look at Nvidia's AI chips. The architecture is remaining very similar and they are relying on bigger chips, more power and lower precision math to continue to offer meaningful performance improvements. They already have cores for basic math, special function math, textures, geometry, RT, matrix math etc. What more can they move to fixed function without severely limiting programmability?

 

[Msamy]

No, it's AMD's version of Hopper's Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-hopper-architecture-in-depth/#thread_block_clusters

Which is interesting because while NVIDIA has had it for a while they never brought it to gaming GPUs.

Thanks K KeplerL2 for your clarification here

 

[ecosse_011172]

A page ITT with no screenshots makes the baby Jesus cry.

 

[SKYF@ll]

Not enough love for this game here ;d It can be very underwhelming with geometry of assets like rocks etc but when it all works it looks stunning. Also one of best pssr implementation I've seen + nice hdr (when most games on ue5 has it broken for some reason).

The HDR in this game is truly beautiful.
It's so much fun to gallop around on horseback.
White rocks with chamfered edges are often seen in scenic spots in Japan. In Yotei, the rocks can look unbalanced when placed among the highly realistic vegetation.

Photos of scenic spots in Japan

Ghost of Yotei (PS5 Pro RT Pro Mode) Mountain and forest scenery

 

[dgrdsv]

No, it's AMD's version of Hopper's Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory

It has that too but "Neural arrays" really sounds just like "tensor cores" i.e. a dedicated array of MM ALUs (as in opposing an array of MM ALUs inside SIMDs in RDNA4). How it operates with caches, LDS (i.e. "Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory") and memory is secondary to what it is.

Which is interesting because while NVIDIA has had it for a while they never brought it to gaming GPUs.

Well it likely has no benefits for gaming code which is why it's DC exclusive.

 

[Critical Hit]

My main goal of talking above is not to ps6 challenge nividia or pc, I am taking about ps6 will have great upgrade and investment on techs far better than what they did with ps5 by the time of its release

I'm not really talking about the challenge either, I'm saying that we need an even more powerful ps6 than we currently discussing.

The issue youre reffering to WRT rasterization is the inability to efficiently calculate accurate light transport due to the limits of how rasterization functions.

No, I'm saying that the main increase will come from the number of specialized cores, and I don't see a problem with adding them to future cards. I'm not too concerned about stagnation in rasterization - in a few years, half or more of the AAA games will be based on ray tracing. I think ps6 will have this from the start.

 

[GymWolf]

You may be right but I don't see them investment this much on ps6 to end with ps6 Protable limits

I don't understand what you are saying

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I love your optimism but they are still forced to develop with a tablet cpu in mind.

This is what sets PC apart from consoles. With a PC you can pump a nuclear reactor worth of electricity through it and nobody cares.
Switch owners start crying that their hands melt.

 

[KeplerL2]

It has that too but "Neural arrays" really sounds just like "tensor cores" i.e. a dedicated array of MM ALUs (as in opposing an array of MM ALUs inside SIMDs in RDNA4). How it operates with caches, LDS (i.e. "Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory") and memory is secondary to what it is.


Well it likely has no benefits for gaming code which is why it's DC exclusive.

AMD has had matrix cores for ages dude, this specific feature is sharing LDS across WGPs to process larger workgroup clusters.

 

[Msamy]

I don't understand what you are saying

I am talking about sony won't develop ps6 with those many techs to make it hold dawn by ps6 Protable version of games, also sorry for my bad language

 

[Msamy]

AMD has had matrix cores for ages dude, this specific feature is sharing LDS across WGPs to process larger workgroup clusters.

One small question K KeplerL2 based on current specs how much is a difference between ps6 and PS6 portable on raw power and ray tracing output?

 

[KeplerL2]

One small question K KeplerL2 based on current specs how much is a difference between ps6 and PS6 portable on raw power and ray tracing output?

Around 6x

 

[GymWolf]

I am talking about sony won't develop ps6 with those many techs to make it hold dawn by ps6 Protable version of games, also sorry for my bad language

Lol no need to excuse yourself when you talk with an illiterate like me

 

[dgrdsv]

AMD has had matrix cores for ages dude

"Matrix cores" is not tensor cores. What AMD had and has now are matrix multiplication ALUs inside main SIMD processors. "Neural arrays" sound a lot like tensor cores, and as I've said

this specific feature is sharing LDS across WGPs to process larger workgroup clusters

This isn't "arrays", it's memory hierarchy.

 

[KeplerL2]

"Matrix cores" is not tensor cores. What AMD had and has now are matrix multiplication ALUs inside main SIMD processors. "Neural arrays" sound a lot like tensor cores, and as I've said

It's literally the same thing. The fact that AMD chooses not to have dedicated execution ports on their gaming uarchs is just area optimization.

This isn't "arrays", it's memory hierarchy.

It's an Array of Matrix cores working together, what's so hard to understand?

 

[TheRedRiders]

I'm not really talking about the challenge either, I'm saying that we need an even more powerful ps6 than we currently discussing.

Depends on what the design objective is, from the statements made by Cerny and AMD, it's clear they're trying to develop a console which can handle path tracing at reasonably good image quality, and likely 60 FPS.

Judging by the feature set, that's where they are headed. Could it be more, sure but that's always been an argument for consoles though but it does seem to be enough.

 

[Msamy]

Around 6x

Omg this huge difference will affect the quality of games that would released on both systems GymWolf you are right I thought the difference would be 3-4x on overall

 

[Msamy]

K KeplerL2 based on your informations sony will likely release ps6 on 2027, late 2027?
, also is that mean next gen xbox will have release date between late 2026 or early 2027?

 

[Bojji]

Around 6x

Omg this huge difference will affect the quality of games that would released on both systems GymWolf you are right I thought the difference would be 3-4x on overall

Looks like my crude math was on point few months ago:

News Rumor Hype  Post in thread '[MLiD] PS6 Early Specs Leak: AMD RDNA 5, Lower Price than PS5 Pro!'

Aug 1, 2025

So handheld will be ~0.5 of PS5 while stationary console 3x PS5?

Imagine developers twisting their panties trying to comprehend 6x power difference between consoles, WTF. Even Series S-X situation was around ~3x.

Edit: 5080 performance with that TDP is just not possible but who knows...

• Bojji

• 
• 
• 
• 

You see Topher ? I'm learning when it comes to quoting myself from the past. Still not on O onQ123 level...

 

[Radical_3d]

Looks like my crude math was on point few months ago:

News Rumor Hype  Post in thread '[MLiD] PS6 Early Specs Leak: AMD RDNA 5, Lower Price than PS5 Pro!'

Aug 1, 2025

So handheld will be ~0.5 of PS5 while stationary console 3x PS5?

Imagine developers twisting their panties trying to comprehend 6x power difference between consoles, WTF. Even Series S-X situation was around ~3x.

Edit: 5080 performance with that TDP is just not possible but who knows...

• Bojji

• 
• 
• 
• 

You see Topher ? I'm learning when it comes to quoting myself from the past. Still not on O onQ123 level...

Half a PS5 while in portable is insane bearing in mind the Switch 2 while in portable is half a ham sandwich. I wonder if those metrics are for some kind of docked mode. And it's 1/3 of the PS5 bandwidth means that that thing isn't going to run anything but paired backs PS5 games, no chance in hell that stuff can run paired back PS6 games.

 

[TheRedRiders]

K KeplerL2 based on your informations sony will likely release ps6 on 2027, late 2027?
, also is that mean next gen xbox will have release date between late 2026 or early 2027?

I think he's mentioned a few times it will be holiday 2027

 

[Critical Hit]

path tracing at reasonably good image quality, and likely 60 FPS.

If they can manage native 1080p and true (without fg) 60fps, then that's ok. I'll believe it when I see it, though.

 

[Zuzu]

I can't believe they're going to release a weak handheld alongside the console next gen (weak compared to the console). This sounds worse than the Series S. I hope this doesn't hold back the ambitions of game developers .

 

[PeteBull]

Wait a second, we are gonna see a ps6 not earlier than 3-4 years and we can't even hope for a 5080 level of power?

Holidays 2027 launch, yet it will be weaker from 5080, which means substantially weaker from rtx 4090 which launched in 2022, aka by then 5yo gpu, writting is on the wall if ps6 will only draw 160Watts like they saying in the leaks.

Ofc it will still be substantally stronger in raster(and even more in rt/ai upscaling) from pathethically weak ps5pr0, still by then we will have 60xx series cards from nvidia already, so very likely even midrange rtx 6070(likely 800-1k usd streetprice) will be stronger from brand new ps6 in every possible aspect.

It makes total sense, especially if we assume that smaller/weaker ps6 is made to cost at max 499-599$(with xbox rising white flag sony doesnt even really need to try that much unfortunately).

 

[Radical_3d]

which means substantially weaker from rtx 4090 which launched in 2022, aka by then 5yo enthusiast 1.000+$ gpu

Yeah. That checks out for a 2027 console.

 

[Proelite]

Around 6x

~7 teraflops and ~40 teraflops.

 

[Msamy]

Holidays 2027 launch, yet it will be weaker from 5080, which means substantially weaker from rtx 4090 which launched in 2022, aka by then 5yo gpu, writting is on the wall if ps6 will only draw 160Watts like they saying in the leaks.

Ofc it will still be substantally stronger in raster(and even more in rt/ai upscaling) from pathethically weak ps5pr0, still by then we will have 60xx series cards from nvidia already, so very likely even midrange rtx 6070(likely 800-1k usd streetprice) will be stronger from brand new ps6 in every possible aspect.

It makes total sense, especially if we assume that smaller/weaker ps6 is made to cost at max 499-599$(with xbox rising white flag sony doesnt even really need to try that much unfortunately).

From my perspective The most important 2 things on ps6 is ray tracing performance which rumored to be on par with RTX 5090 not 5080 and ML advanced Tech which is completely new on AMD gpus, I know raster performance and raw teraflops are important but if ps6 gonna have dedicated cores for ray/path tracing comparable to RTX 5090 Ray tracing cores on performance that's completely fine for me considering it's suggested price 500~600$ the only downside thing I see on those leaks is ps6 Protable

 

[SlimySnake]

I like how we are discussing features like neural rendering and path tracing when Sony's own first party studios couldnt be bothered to use the existing mesh/primitive shader, ray tracing and other hardware features on the ps5 in the first five years.

i have been resigned to a smaller upgrade this time around because the costs have risen, and profit first mentality of sony, nintendo and microsoft means more expensive consoles with weaker specs, but if you look at it like a mid gen upgrade, i think it will be fine. most devs will be adding path tracing in their games releasing in 2027 and beyond and it would be good to have a console that can run them at decent resolutions.

I am ok with it. Just not expecting anymore big generational leaps anymore. lets just get UE5 working well and maybe if we are lucky we will get marvel 1943 visuals in every game next gen.

 

[Cobalt5]

No, it's AMD's version of Hopper's Thread Cluster/Distributed Shared Memory https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-hopper-architecture-in-depth/#thread_block_clusters

Which is interesting because while NVIDIA has had it for a while they never brought it to gaming GPUs.

wrong, they brought these features to gaming Blackwell as well.

 

[KeplerL2]

wrong, they brought these features to gaming Blackwell as well.

Did they? I didn't see it in the whitepaper.

 

[Msamy]

wrong, they brought these features to gaming Blackwell as well.

Your source?

 

[PeteBull]

I am ok with it. Just not expecting anymore big generational leaps anymore. lets just get UE5 working well and maybe if we are lucky we will get marvel 1943 visuals in every game next gen.

I really wanna see gta6 on ps5, we will be able to get similar lvl of fidelity from proper next gen games(obviously at way smaller scale, gta6 will be open world juggetnaut with crazy attention to detail coz of crazy big budget and dev time) so maybe on ps6/ midspecs pc around 2030 or 2032 latest.

 

[Cobalt5]

Did they? I didn't see it in the whitepaper.

https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index.html#features-and-technical-specifications

 

[KeplerL2]

https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index.html#features-and-technical-specifications

Which one is gaming Blackwell again?

 

[Cobalt5]

Which one is gaming Blackwell again?

12.0

NVIDIA CUDA GPU Compute Capability

Find the compute capability for your GPU.

developer.nvidia.com

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Still it is surely more laziness than some kind of grand master plan.

Laziness from the devs, greed from the execs.

It's laziness, greed and control.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I like how we are discussing features like neural rendering and path tracing when Sony's own first party studios couldnt be bothered to use the existing mesh/primitive shader, ray tracing and other hardware features on the ps5 in the first five years.

i have been resigned to a smaller upgrade this time around because the costs have risen, and profit first mentality of sony, nintendo and microsoft means more expensive consoles with weaker specs, but if you look at it like a mid gen upgrade, i think it will be fine. most devs will be adding path tracing in their games releasing in 2027 and beyond and it would be good to have a console that can run them at decent resolutions.

I am ok with it. Just not expecting anymore big generational leaps anymore. lets just get UE5 working well and maybe if we are lucky we will get marvel 1943 visuals in every game next gen.

I'm not okay with it, I want generational leaps...

Report: Development of the Next Xbox Is ‘Full Steam Ahead,’ Says AMD Engineer

AMD engineer confirms Microsoft’s next Xbox is in active development, with the project said to be moving “full steam ahead.”

mp1st.com

 

[Jack Howitzer]

I'm not okay with it, I want generational leaps...