Hector Hall
Member
You have always wanted Xbox to cost 1000-1200 and crash and burn?
[MLiD] AMD Magnus APU Full Leak: RDNA 5, Zen 6, 110 TOPS NPU = XBOX Next-Gen Console!
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
You have always wanted Xbox to cost 1000-1200 and crash and burn?
Even in games with fucked up shader compilation stutters will happen only once for every shader, after that all that is left is traversal stutter.
And with traversal stutter to you get to experience them on all platforms:
In some games with good enough CPU (and 60fps lock) you can even avoid stutters present on consoles:
Yeah, this is problematic in some UE5 games, you have to lock framerate to specific values to avoid this:
only until the game or drivers get an update, then shader stutters all over again.
also experiencing them at new instance of an effect is pretty much a game killer for most people, its the most disrupting visual issue next to screen tearing probably.
i know you guys trying to justify the mortgages you took on your gpus to feel good but its nowhere close of an issue on consoles. get over it.
you are not even doing yourself a favor by downplaying it and giving zero incentives to the devs to fix it.
Bojji
Member
I'm not. And I'm glad Alex is pretty much doing campaign against it.
Few years ago almost every game had fucked up shader stutter, it started to change after DF focused on it in many videos. This was not the problem with DX11 (and before) so it was clear that devs were struggling with DX12. Take for example Ghost wire Tokyo, up until patch (last year?) you loaded the game and it was stuttering for the first 5-10 minutes, ZERO shader compilation. They fixed it and now game runs amazing.
Now only some games have this problem, so it's not like every game is like that (most are fine). And no one forces you to update drivers, you can complete the game on 1 driver version.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, it isn't. I have the game and the only stutters are when crossing invisible boundaries that happen out of combat anyway. It's a slight hitch.
Not even close to the same problems.
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winjer
Member
No, it isn't. I have the game and the only stutters are when crossing invisible boundaries that happen out of combat anyway. It's a slight hitch.
True, but Jedi Survivor was only fixed a few months ago, after they removed Denuvo.
Before it still had a ton of issues with stutters.
Kazekage1981
Member
Will they be updating their API's? I am assuming Yes?!
Increasing SSD speeds?
New Interconnect stuff?
DirectX13Ultimate which includes new Raytracing/Path tracing API?
Sampler Feedback Streaming Version 2?
20-30 GB/sec of PCIE Gen 5 SSD speeds?
USB 4.0 or USB 4.0 version 2 with 80Gbps?
Increasing SSD speeds?
New Interconnect stuff?
DirectX13Ultimate which includes new Raytracing/Path tracing API?
Sampler Feedback Streaming Version 2?
20-30 GB/sec of PCIE Gen 5 SSD speeds?
USB 4.0 or USB 4.0 version 2 with 80Gbps?
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Big doubt $2k is 9070XT 5070TI prices which in 2027 will be replaced with the 60 series and RDNA5. The 5070ti is a 370mm² chip in size while the 9070XT is 350mm², the Xbox GPU is 264mm² which is 5070 size. That and this chip will be power and heat constrained and will share bandwidth with the CPU.
Needless to say neither the PS6 nor Xbox Next will touch Nvidia's current gen 350mm²+ chip. Remember the PS5 couldn't even outperform the 3060ti (PS5 has 2070 super level performance), Xbox next matching a 5070ti class chip is a stretch.
Tobimacoss
Member
Kepler said Magnus is RTX 5080 tier in Raster and 5090 tier in Ray Tracing.
viveks86
Member
I may have missed it, got a quote for this?
pacman4000
Member
If true, why don't we have a GAF>Internet>GAF thread about it?
You are thinking about MLiD?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not the same problems, but Dead Space on PC hasn't been 'fixed' either. It only got one patch shortly post-release, which didn't fix the stuttering, and as of the last time DF covered it (December '23), it still had problems, which would be worse on mid-power rigs compared to powerful ones.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It should be more powerful than a 5070 ti. This isn't launching this year.
4090 RT sounds about right with slightly faster than a 5070ti or close to a 5080 if the speculation and leaks are giving the right people the right info.
I don't have a clue haha
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Tobimacoss
Member
Hmm, maybe it was MLID who said that, I'm not gonna watch the half hour video again.
But Kepler did say 5080 performance for Magnus.
The part about 5090 Ray Tracing might be MLID, but KeplerL2 did say 5080 for Magnus performance.
And regarding AI performance:
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It hasn't been "fixed" because it was never anywhere near as bad as those other games. Third worst PC port is purely an Alex problem.
Callisto Protocol
TLOU Part I
Wild Hearts
Jedi Survivor
Monster Hunter Wilds
Borderlands 4
Even Oblivion Remastered sits at just 76% Positive Reviews. Dead Space for some strange reason is at 90% Positive Reviews and has somehow escaped everyone's notice but Alex's? That's because what he is describing is wildly exaggerated or he's had it worse than everyone.
I tried to reproduce his issues on two rigs, an old and a new one, but was unable to. Does the game have traversal hitches? Yep. Enough to ruin the experience, let alone be put alongside the worst PC ports ever? Not even close.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
PC has micro stutters, console plays at 30fps pick your poison I guess.
winjer
Member
PC has micro stutters, if it's improperly configured, especially with timers. Or if a game is badly optimized.
And consoles also have issues with incorrect frame pacing and micro stutters, when games are poorly optimized.
Not to mention the issues that consoles sometimes have with some TVs and VRR support.
Bojji
Member
No, it isn't. I have the game and the only stutters are when crossing invisible boundaries that happen out of combat anyway. It's a slight hitch.
Not even close to the same problems.
Both Dead Space and Jedi Survior still have many problems on PC. I personally tried both of them on PS5 Pro (after finishing PC versions years ago) and when it comes to traversal stutter, console versions are definitely better. Of course this is just part of the picture, games have better image quality and graphics settings on PC.
Jedi - even if you are able to overpower stutter with the best CPU you will still see animation problems not seen on consoles:
Some other games are in better state I think, Callisto was ok after some patches, TLOU 1 is smooth even if GPU performance is below what it should be (took them few months to fix many problems), MHW is still bad I believe (I don't have this game) and Borderlands...
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Look forward to seeing its performance but at what cost?Hmm, maybe it was MLID who said that, I'm not gonna watch the half hour video again.
But Kepler did say 5080 performance for Magnus.
The part about 5090 Ray Tracing might be MLID, but KeplerL2 did say 5080 for Magnus performance.
And regarding AI performance:
Is it going to cost twice as much as the PS6?
Maybe
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Jedi Survivor and Dead Space aren't in the same league at all though, which is my point. I played Dead Space for 2 hours just yesterday and the traversal stutters were sporadic with small spikes. When I played it last year, it was the same thing.
Jedi Survivor is a whole different ballgame. You make it to Koboh and it's a stuttering nightmare.
Dead Space isn't among the worst PC ports ever or close to it.
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Bojji
Member
Agree, I played it few days ago (first time on my current GPU) and it was tolerable.
But fuck me with that jedi survivor... PS5 Pro has many visual issues in this game but it's definitely more playable (and has custom low RT setting not available on PC).
Bojji
Member
I think K KeplerL2 and/or
HeisenbergFX4
said in the past that there is going to be more than 1 version of this console. Low, mid and high end options even.
viveks86
Member
You think more than $1200 then? Ooff.
I remember throwing $999 out there and people were correcting me on GPU pricing.
Tobimacoss
Member
I think there will be S tier SKU also. Using Magnus AT3 with 40-48 CUs, Slightly less powerful than PS6 but designed for 1440p, just like how the Series S was supposed to be. Magnus is the CPU SOC with media die and NPU, it can be paired up with any of the 5 GPU dies. Like how Series S and X both share the same CPU, just slightly different clocks.
And pricing might be similar to the Xbox Ally configurations. $599 and $999
So PS6 handheld at $499, Xbox Magnus S at $599, PS6 at $699 (without disk drive), and Magnus X at $999. Effective cost of PS6 could be $800 including a disk drive and Stand.
I think there will be two SKUs for Magnus first party consoles, X and S that act as the baseline. So two SKUs for devs to optimize for, for both Xbox and Playstation.I think K KeplerL2 and/or
That's why MS won't mandate handheld support for devs, and simply rely on the handheld Verified program, Play Anywhere, and Console library BC and FC on AMD RDNA5 chips to run games as the devices become more powerful every iteration.
ProElite said OEMs will be doing the higher spec variants of the MS first party consoles, like higher storage, ram, clocks etc.
OEMs will also be doing the rest of the devices in the portfolio, so Xbox PCs with Magnus AT2 and Magnus AT1, Xbox Laptops with Magnus AT3 and Magnus AT4, and Xbox Handhelds with Magnus AT4. While Xbox Cloud runs on Magnus AT0.
The way xcloud works currently and the way MS would like it to work, (similar to Nvidia GFN), basically requires there to be 1440-1080 versions of games optimized by the developers, in order to reduce energy and cooling costs.
winjer
Member
One of the things that AMD is changing in their chiplets, is the switch from SerDes to a Fan Out interconnect using TSMC's InFO-os.
This is how chiplets are connected and this change will have huge ramifications for AMD's future products. Including consoles.
The advantage is that is saves a ton of transistors and some power, when building chiplets. Though the process is more complex.
Here is an in-depth explanation, for those that are more tech minded and care about learning.
This is how chiplets are connected and this change will have huge ramifications for AMD's future products. Including consoles.
The advantage is that is saves a ton of transistors and some power, when building chiplets. Though the process is more complex.
Here is an in-depth explanation, for those that are more tech minded and care about learning.
N3P should be about 20% denser and faster than N4 and skipping the Infinity Cache would provide a substantial area saving. Bandwidth wise, RDNA 5 would have access to GDDR7 + Universal Compression.
Tobimacoss
Member
MLID mentioned 5090 level RT for PS6 Orion, that's what he had to backtrack on, since it was obvious click bait and BS.
5090 tier RT makes more sense for Magnus than Orion. Think about it, if Magnus AT2 with 68 CUs is 5080 tier, then Magnus AT1 with 96 CUs could easily be 5090 tier. But that would be only for Xbox PCs, not Consoles.
AT0 has 192 CUs, that they are likely to use for xCloud, and discrete 6090 tier GPU.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Honestly I have no idea on pricing
I used to mention $999 but I do think that price is trending upwards just looking at pricing of current consoles
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
True true let's not pretend everything looks great on PS5.
viveks86
Member
Yeah Kepler said it will be close to a 5080 for raster. And given the massive upgrades to RT, it would likely match a 5080 on that front as well, with the possibility of it punching above, with even more AI and RT features beyond Blackwell. To what extent above remains to be seen.
clappedcheeks
Member
I thought the Magnus X wasn't going to be subsidised by MS due to the all embracing open nature. That being the case you still expect there to be a $200 - $300 differential between that and PS6, on a machine you expect to be vastly more powerful? It sounds like wishful thinking to me, especially when reports are that Sony is going for efficiency in design so they can keep costs down.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I'd stretch to £999 for something's like that. The issue is I have zero trust in ms right now and if I have 0 trust, god forbid what the average consumer is like.
It's going to have to be a groundbreaking Incredible product and I can't see it right now.
SplunkyMunkey
Member
I dont get it how can the magnus cpu confirmed to be stronger then ps6? 11 cores vs 9 or 10 cores
Magnus 3 high powered cores and 11 low powered cores
Ps6 unconfirmed 7/8 high powered cores and 2 low powered cores
Wouldn't that make the ps6 stronger on the cpu department?
We all know ps6 will be lesser on the gpu side of things
Magnus 3 high powered cores and 11 low powered cores
Ps6 unconfirmed 7/8 high powered cores and 2 low powered cores
Wouldn't that make the ps6 stronger on the cpu department?
We all know ps6 will be lesser on the gpu side of things
I marvel at how some of you are really skilled at hearing exactly what you want to hear
It's 3 Zen6 + 8 Zen6c for Magnus vs 8 Zen6c + 2 Zen6LP for PS6
Apollo Helios
Member
What's LP?
Low Power
Neo_game
Member
I think Microsoft is the right idea, this is basically PS6 Pro going the rumour.
According to rumors, leaks there is only a single APU which will be used in multiple devices. There is no S version that has been leaked.
According to rumors, leaks there is only a single APU which will be used in multiple devices. There is no S version that has been leaked.
Apollo Helios
Member
Then PS has less grunt in CPU department? But this can change if the simulations reveal it would be a weak link in support of GPU though right? I don't think Cerny would say it's all in simulations right now if anything was finalized.
WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
I will never understand people that are loyal to products and brands. I will just leave it at that.
Specs are very much finalized.
Ramiro_Rodriguez
Member
Can someone explain me, like i'm five years old, how much more powerful will be the new XBox compared to the PS6?
So like the XSX is on the paper more powerful than the PS5?
Apollo Helios
Member
Then it's ok I'd never buy an Xbox anyways lol I'm always getting the Playstation and that would never change based on a tad slower CPU. I trust Cerny and his secret sauce always.
TheRedRiders
Member
We will have to wait until we get official confirmation, but it seems the next Xbox will be roughly 30% more powerful than the PS6, and judging by the alleged specs it's also going to cost significantly more.
MisterXDTV
Member
Does it really matter if this Magnus mini-pc is double the price of a PS6?
At that point, they are not really competing against each other anymore
In 2013 and 2020 they were competing for the same market segment
Those days are gone now
Zathalus
Member
So the recent leak from MLID is accurate for both Xbox and PS? Or just the Xbox one?