peish
Member
I can see mark poorny choosing 38gbps gddr7 and that will knock down ps6 to 760gb/s of vram
It's going to be a mismatch fight next gen
[MLiD] AMD Magnus APU Full Leak: RDNA 5, Zen 6, 110 TOPS NPU = XBOX Next-Gen Console!
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
I can see mark poorny choosing 38gbps gddr7 and that will knock down ps6 to 760gb/s of vram
It's going to be a mismatch fight next gen
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Well. I tell you one thing.
I'm keen to see more of these boxes. They sound drastically different and I want to see how they perform with my own eyes.
I imagine both will push for frame gen as the secret sauce. I just hope they are both generating frames from a 45 to 60 FPS baseline and not 30 fps
I'm keen to see more of these boxes. They sound drastically different and I want to see how they perform with my own eyes.
I imagine both will push for frame gen as the secret sauce. I just hope they are both generating frames from a 45 to 60 FPS baseline and not 30 fps
kevboard
Member
720p will be the target resolution of the PS5.
make no mistake, the crossgen period this time around will last for essentially the entirety generation.
even now, there are still PS4 games made. there are even rumours about a PS4 port of Resident Evil 9, and Marvel Rivals just got a PS4 port...
also, don't forget about the PS handheld, which is all but confirmed at this point.
so Sony will essentially have a Series S of their own, just that it is a handheld.
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Radical_3d
Member
More than a 4080 less than a 5080: waaaaaay better than I expected. LOL Magnus is going to be such a behemoth.
Felessan
Member
Maybe. Or maybe not.
The biggest difference between PS4 and PS5 is 30/60 fps, PS5 and PS6 will be different story. I expect gap to quickly become much bigger, incentivizing people to migrate and as a result - faster transition to next-gen only.
PS handheld will have 1080p most likely, so for it it's normal to have base resolution of 1080p and internal of like 400p, because it's not 55" screen but 10" screen.
400p scaled to 4K would be awful.
How many tops does the 5080 have compared to the 4080?
More than a 4080 less than a 5080: waaaaaay better than I expected. LOL Magnus is going to be such a behemoth.
Radical_3d
Member
A shit ton. Say whatever about nVidia raster wins gen on gen, but they are committed with AI:
| RTX 5080 | Compare to Previous RTX 4080 | |
|---|---|---|
| NVIDIA Architecture | Blackwell | Ada Lovelace |
| DLSS | DLSS 4 | DLSS 3 |
| AI TOPS | 1801 | 780 |
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Zathalus
Member
That chart is comparing FP4, which the 5080 supports, vs FP8 on the 4080.
If we compare just FP8, then it is 450.2 vs 389.9, or 900.4 vs 779.8 with Sparsity. Now, I'm not sure if the 1200 FP8 figure is with Sparsity or not, but I'd guess it is looking at the 9070XT specifications.
Radical_3d
Member
Oh, those cheeky nVidia figures...
To be clear that's 50% more than a 5080. About 20% lower than what he said for Magnus.
winjer
Member
1200 TOPs, in Int4 with Sparcity. Right?
Zathalus
Member
Should be INT8/FP8 assuming throughput doubles vs RDNA4. Based on 52 CUs @ ~2.8Ghz-3Ghz.
Tobimacoss
Member
Will the PS6 handheld also have fins along with the 10" screen?
Idk how to do the AI thing, but can someone using AI generate a PS6 handheld with 10" screen?
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52 CUs x 4096 ops/cycle (INT8/FP8) * 2 (sparsity) * ~2.8 GHz
winjer
Member
That is almost as much as a 9070.
I forgot that the 9070 has the same Int4 and Int8 peak throughput.
I wonder if UDNA will be able to double Int4 operations.
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SplunkyMunkey
Member
Sod it just make a ps6 a power house not similar to magnus but under im sure people would still pay the price for a ps6 then magnus
IllegalLemon
Member
Chapters:
0:00 (NEW Leak) Pics of AMD's XBOX Magnus APU!
1:12 Cheap for PC, Expensive for Console
3:57 Why you should be excited for Next-Gen XBOX…
5:10 XBOX Magnus is NOT Cancelled!
9:14 RDNA 5 & XBOX's Cancelled Handheld APU
14:10 (NEW Leak) XBOX Magnus Specs & Release Date
20:25 XBOX Magnus Performance vs PlayStation 6
23:00 XBOX MUST DO THIS to Succeed Next-Gen!
We're talking about MLiD here. Guy started out piggybacking off of RGT & InsiderGaming for info, and then creating slides in MSPaint & Brush to give the illusion of having insider info. Please stop giving this buffoon a platform, his nonsense already made it to Twitter, where it's been evangelised and factualised by clueless nerds. We don't need to make it worse.
Tobimacoss
Member
Kepler confirmed the info and that specs are finalized.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening.
Sounds like PS6 is going for a cheaper, more power efficient design.
No idea on price, but the xbox could be twice the price and the design potentially warrants that. We will see.
Radical_3d
Member
Windows calculator says 1.193. I'll take that despite the lower raster increase of a meager 3X over PS5. But it's the Windows calculator, maybe it conspired to lower the number in favor of Xbox...
Giga Bowser?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
TheRedRiders
Member
I know right, I'm not the biggest fan of MLiD but RGT has been a half baked leaker from what I have witnessed, I don't think he has gotten anything right., MLiD piggybacking off of RGT?
The only leak of his that gained some traction was that the PS5 was using RDNA 3's geometry engine, which turned out to be incorrect.
I'm not trying to crap on RGT either, I enjoy his videos but he's not even close to reputable when it comes to leaking information.
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Yes but that's why Microsoft has developed Advanced Shader Delivery which works similar to consoles, the shaders aren't compiled by the users PC, instead the shaders are downloaded with the game, it's patches and a driver update. So no more shader comp stutter.
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
This is the same excuse people used for PS3 era games "most users won't notice when games drop to 18fps". They do even if it doesn't kill their experience, even if they don't understand what's happening. The point is games shouldn't stutter, thankfully Microsoft is developing shader delivery so there won't be any more shader stutters.
IllegalLemon
Member
Honestly, neither of them are. At least MLiD got something right for once with the PS5 leaks, but Tom Henderson and Insider Gaming beat him to the bunch, releasing theirs first and both were very close in leak accuracy.
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Loxus
Member
So on the Xbox Magnus SoC, we can see a large rectangle next to the CPU cores which I assume to be the NPU. Which would mean the blank area around the NPU would be the Media/Display Engines.
Looking at the PS6, we see the same large rectangle next to the CPU cores, with presumably the Media/Display Engines above.
Same with the handheld.
Does this mean the PS6 also have an NPU?
I know Kepler already mentioned it not having an NPU.
So if it's not an NPU, what could it be?
Something bespoke like the I/O Complex?
Looking at the PS6, we see the same large rectangle next to the CPU cores, with presumably the Media/Display Engines above.
Same with the handheld.
Does this mean the PS6 also have an NPU?
I know Kepler already mentioned it not having an NPU.
So if it's not an NPU, what could it be?
Something bespoke like the I/O Complex?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So on the Xbox Magnus SoC, we can see a large rectangle next to the CPU cores which I assume to be the NPU. Which would mean the blank area around the NPU would be the Media/Display Engines.
Looking at the PS6, we see the same large rectangle next to the CPU cores, with presumably the Media/Display Engines above.
Same with the handheld.
Does this mean the PS6 also have an NPU?
I know Kepler already mentioned it not having an NPU.
So if it's not an NPU, what could it be?
Something bespoke like the I/O Complex?
Isn't it the NPU that handles upscaling? - I'm still learning on this stuff. I'm sure the PS6 will be good at upscaling, so its not required for that, just assists?
Tobimacoss
Member
Wait, the handheld Canis has 6 CPU cores? 4 Zen 6C and 2 Zen 6LP?
Although, I am not good at reading dies, does this show the Magnus has 12 memory controllers and PS6 has 5 with clamshell design?
So if they both use 3 GB chips, PS6 Orion would be 3 x 2 x 5 for total of 30 GB ram.
Magnus would be 3 x 12 for 36 GB.
And if OEMs use 4 GB sticks, it would allow them to do 4 x 12 for total of 48 GB ram in higher spec variants?
As for the NPU, is it possible that Orion also has an NPU, but Sony may not have an intention to use it, unless they think it can be useful in the future.
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Radical_3d
Member
No. The AI in the GPU handles the image processing (upscaling and frame generation). This is for BS AI assistant and other modern day buzz words.
Tobimacoss
Member
GPU Cores are handling the upscaling for DLSS, FSR4, XESS. NPU can handle upscaling, but not those temporal solutions.
NPU can do AutoSR upscaling, it's what the Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite uses and AMD Z2X AI in the Xbox Ally X will be using.
NPU is also far more efficient in handling AI tasks. That upscaling at lower power will be very useful for handhelds, laptops, and Cloud instances.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
The NPU can handle upscaling, frame generation, de-noising, physics etc independently from the GPU / CPU.
At a high level it's a bit like Tensor Cores on Nvidia. You can throw workloads at it to work independently of the main process.
Physiognomonics
Member
Xbox sx had 8 % more memory, here 20% more. Dev will still use ps6 as baseline. Probably with higher res on xbox
That's less difference (20%) than ps5 vs xsx bandwidth (25%)
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Zathalus
Member
I'm not saying it's not a problem that needs resolving or that some users notice it, just pointing out that shader stutters being a game killer for most people is nonsense. Like how some are not bothering by tearing or frame rate drops. It's also hardly an issue that was nearly as prevalent a few years ago.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Ahhh, thanks. I was listening to a lot of peeps talk about the NPU in the rog ally Xbox handling scaling over the last week.
Tobimacoss
Member
It will, it will use Auto Super Resolution (AutoSR).
MS confirmed it's coming to Xbox Ally X in couple months after launch. It's a MS and windows system wide solution, doesn't require developer input. Kind of like Windows Auto HDR.
And that's correct because it can be used for that purpose as the oficial web say (AutoSR).
The difference with the XBOX Next is that there Will be already specific, more efficient hardware for that purpose, and the extra NPU wouldn't make sense for that purpose, but rather for other purposes (aka.. AI assistant or something else)
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Radical_3d
Member
The massive power hungry Independence Day New York scene evoking Magnus' die size has a NPU with 100 something TOPs. The absolutely lacking PSPro has 300 TOPs. So the Ally will have likely less than 100 TOPs in it's NPU, and loads more in the GPU. It may handle scaling with the NPU but the quality will be very lacking. Me thinks.
Tobimacoss
Member
It's very likely Magnus SOC will be paired up with AT4 for laptops and handhelds. AutoSR will be useful in those devices. That's the point of a modular chiplet system. One CPU SOC for the entire portfolio of devices. Basically going forward, every Xbox branded device will have Magnus CPU SOC, regardless of form factor or GPU die used.
Good enough to reach 1080 for the handhelds 1080 screen. On Qualcomm Snapdragon devices, it was even doing 4k/30 upscaling after the ARM64 real time translation of x64 code.
IllegalLemon
Member
The pro already uses its own AI unit that enables PSSR, it doesn't make to not take that unit and improve upon it.So on the Xbox Magnus SoC, we can see a large rectangle next to the CPU cores which I assume to be the NPU. Which would mean the blank area around the NPU would be the Media/Display Engines.
Looking at the PS6, we see the same large rectangle next to the CPU cores, with presumably the Media/Display Engines above.
Same with the handheld.
Does this mean the PS6 also have an NPU?
I know Kepler already mentioned it not having an NPU.
So if it's not an NPU, what could it be?
Something bespoke like the I/O Complex?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That Magnus SOC looks massive. That can't be cheap.
IllegalLemon
Member
Cost is inversely proportional to die size. It is simple economics in computer engineering and micro/digital electronics classes. The larger the die, the higher the cost and the longer it takes to produce.
Correction: Directly proportional, not inversely. Thanks for the correction guys.
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Radical_3d
Member
HeisenbergFX4
has been hinting 1.000+$ for more than a year now. Haven't we learn to trust our insider? I can see why they do that: appeal to a niche market vs be a follower, save face for the low sales, sell at profit or not loosing, have the premium podium (which in this market is important: ask nVidia... most of it sales is the 60 series but they are the 5090 company)...That's directly proportional.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That's directly proportional.
I'd need to see where both devices sit and their costs. If this is a traditional console, in the sense of how we have seen Xbox's before....I would probs pay £999 for this and might push to £1,199 but I think I wouldnt feel good about that...it would be a harder sell.
winjer
Member
The time to produce is the same, as the wafers are all 300mm and use the same node pattern, with the same amount of steps.
It's the yields that change and the fewer chips that can be extracted from each wafer. The bigger the chip, the less that they fit in wafer. And the more waste, as the wafer is round and the chips are square.
And the bigger the chip, the greater the chance for a defect to affect that chip. Though tech companies do make some redundancies to try to mitigate this, and there is still the chance to disable units to use on lower end SKUs.
IllegalLemon
Member
That die definitely is massive. Probably has a matching tdp and price to boot.
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Never trust MiLD
IllegalLemon
Member
I stand corrected.
IllegalLemon
Member
I'll add the correction, thanks.
That's directly proportional.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I put $2000 away a year ago. All you have to do is just look at prebuilt PCs. This was prior to tariffs.
That's directly proportional.