I don't see how any of the PC handhelds can compete with Valve when it comes to Price vs. Specs

T

Tg89

Member
Xbox Ally reviews are out and are middling at best. The hardware seems fine, the specs are good, but the performance relative to the price leaves a lot to be desired. The problem is, these 3rd party handhelds need to make their money up front on the hardware. With Steam being the primary storefront for PC games, none of them can expect to make significant money on the software side of things. Valve obviously doesn't have this problem because anyone who buys a SD is probably buying a bunch of games on Steam - Valve continues to get 30% from every piece of software after the fact and they can afford to make less profit on the hardware as a result.

The next Xbox seems like it'll have the same problem. We keep hearing about how it will be able to run Steam, but this completely fucks the math up on the financial side. Console manufacturers have historically benefited from a closed-garden model where they're able to price the hardware more aggressively because they make money off the software (or services) that people buy after the fact. A lot of people still see PS5 Pro, XSX, Switch 2 as overpriced, but they're generally priced quite a bit better than anything else of similar specs (especially at the time that they hit the market).

People keep clamoring for open platforms, and while I agree that this has benefits, no one seems to have solved the math side of things. If the next Xbox releases with Steam, what does that cost? They're sacrificing Gamepass Subs and 30% off game sales going forward. People are going to see the price tag, compare it to previous gens and laugh. The general public especially probably won't even consider or care about these factors, they'll just see a $1,000 box and walk past it.

The benefit of consoles (especially in the post-exclusive world) has always been the price. Seems like we're just throwing that benefit away and no one has thought of an alternative solution/value proposition outside of some minor conveniences.
 
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Xbox Ally has a cheaper alternative that is close to price and specs on steam deck.

Do consider that instead of Ally X version for comparison.

I feel Ally X is competitive with other handhelds, but looses to laptops. If I wanted to buy handheld only, I would prefer Ally X. Worth it imo.
 
Tg89 said:
the performance relative to the price leaves a lot to be desired
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Well OP a device that actually matches this actually exists now and it's called the GPD Win 5 and for a cool $1600~ you get the equivalent of (at least on paper) an RTX 4070 Mobile and yes while you are paying x5 times the price of a Steam Deck your also getting x5 the performance this thing has been reviewed already.

But price wise nobody will ever beat Steam because they don't have a store to fall back on to subsidize the cost of the unit but don't worry patient players you still have another 3 years to wait for the Steam Deck 2.
 
Sentenza said:
That's completely irrelevant to the point being made here, and if anything makes things even worse for the competition.
But I'm glad you could get this off your chest, since you clearly wanted to say it so badly.
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giphy.gif
 
I think the approach a lot of them are taking is the one that makes the most sense.
You don't try to compete with the Steam Deck in terms of value, instead you offer a more expensive but more powerful device. You go after the audience that wants better specs and performance and is willing to pay for it, not the audience that's looking for the best "bang for your buck".

Of course at that point you are targeting a niche within a niche. But I don't think any of these companies are expecting to sell tens of millions of their $1000 handhelds PCs.
 
Luckily, MS will be able to see how stupid this strategy is with the first device they made, the question is will they see it.I can go on the "Xbox PC" speculation threads here and every post is like, "yea man it'd be great if Microsoft makes a Xbox PC that lets me install Steam and avoid Microsoft." Like, ok, but how does that help Microsoft? No one can answer that question because it doesn't.

Every Steam Deck sold is a vector for more revenue on Steam. It really is more like a console in that regard. The ROG Ally X or any other "Xbox PC" MS makes is not a vector for more revenue for Microsoft. It's totally idiotic and I have no idea why they are going forward with this.
 
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Fbh said:
I think the approach a lot of them are taking is the one that makes the most sense.
You don't try to compete with the Steam Deck in terms of value, instead you offer a more expensive but more powerful device. You go after the audience that wants better specs and performance and is willing to pay for it, not the audience that's looking for the best "bang for your buck".
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This is exactly it.

They're not expecting to sell 10 million units and have a specific number of sales in mind to decide if they make another one.

Sometimes they even expect a loss or to break even (if they're lucky) if their metric is market penetration.

Some may even jack up the price at launch and would be happy selling a low number of units (10,000-100,000).

I have a feeling that ROG Ally Xbox made their money hand over foot from the Microsoft deal, so I'd expect them to continue making devices for years to come.

We'll probably see other companies exit the market as time goes on. We're in the middle of a heated race to capture power users.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
Xbox Ally has a cheaper alternative that is close to price and specs on steam deck.

Do consider that instead of Ally X version for comparison.

I feel Ally X is competitive with other handhelds, but looses to laptops. If I wanted to buy handheld only, I would prefer Ally X. Worth it imo.
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With the day to day winds of this fast changing market, it would be difficult to decide on a hardware for me at the moment. If I bought the Ally X today, a better thing might be out tomorrow or actually WILL be out very soon to make my 1000 dollar machine obsolete. The Ally X isn't better ENOUGH than the Steamdeck to justify such a huge expense for such a short time of being the flagship in this market.

With steamdeck you have support for games on the device and don't have to deal with Windows jank and also the steamdeck 2 is probably coming out eventually. For the mainstream Switch/Switch 2 would be the recommendation. For the hardcore, I would suggest Steamdeck ecosystem, and I would not recommend this Ally X to anyone. While it might be the best one out when it releases, there will be I'm sure more and better ones coming out right behind it. Might as well stick with a brand you trust to be there and support that specific hardware instead of one who might move on to bigger and better things at the first opportunity.

Let me be even more clear here. Ally X is a niche product that will probably only ever have niche market penetration. It will never be Switch. It will never even be Steamdeck. Buy with caution and assume you will lose most of your equity in the product in a few years.

There is safety in numbers in this racket. Playing on your own obscure platform has risks. That said, smart consumers know how to stay in the game with niche expensive quickly obsolete hardware like this. You buy the best and sell it over and over again. The top end kit holds its value so this might be a decent machine for a high end enthusiast who plans on selling it the second a better machine comes out.
 
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diffusionx said:
Luckily, MS will be able to see how stupid this strategy is with the first device they made, the question is will they see it.I can go on the "Xbox PC" speculation threads here and every post is like, "yea man it'd be great if Microsoft makes a Xbox PC that lets me install Steam and avoid Microsoft." Like, ok, but how does that help Microsoft? No one can answer that question because it doesn't.

Every Steam Deck sold is a vector for more revenue on Steam. It really is more like a console in that regard. The ROG Ally X or any other "Xbox PC" MS makes is not a vector for more revenue for Microsoft. It's totally idiotic and I have no idea why they are going forward with this.
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Retain PC gamers on Windows. That's the angle for Microsoft.

Will it work? Likely not. But they're going to try. That said, I don't think they're really in jeopardy of losing a massive net of PC gamers to Steam OS. At most we're going to see more PC gamers use Windows & Steam OS for gaming options, not replacing one with the other. Just too much legacy support built into Windows (plus years of familiarity) for most PC gamers to ditch it, even with all the problems modern Windows has.

Even so, that still means less revenue for Microsoft from those gamers, because if they do most of their gaming on Steam OS devices, they're spending less time being advertised to through integrated Windows 11 & Windows 12 apps & services. That still equals less money for Microsoft.

Which is always a good thing these days, IMHO. You're already near $4 trillion in valuation, I think that's enough money for a single company on this planet.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Retain PC gamers on Windows. That's the angle for Microsoft.
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I agree they're not in jeopardy of losing market share to Steam Deck or Linux. But if they are, these stupid devices won't help.

They can do a better job of keeping gamers on Windows by improving Windows (LMAO) and bolstering their Xbox app with the services. They can also make ssure Windows is the best place to play their own PC games of which they have quite a few. It's tough to play Age of Empires on a Steam Deck.
 
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diffusionx said:
I agree they're not in jeopardy of losing market share to Steam Deck or Linux. But if they are, these stupid devices won't help.

They can do a better job of keeping gamers on Windows by improving Windows (LMAO) and bolstering their Xbox app with the services. They can also make ssure Windows is the best place to play their own PC games of which they have quite a few. It's tough to play Age of Empires on a Steam Deck.
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The most obvious proof of how stupid MS is when it comes to gaming... is that Steam exists.

It baffles me every single time I think about it. Rtahre than spend $80B on publishers... they should have spent that to make a version of windows catered to gamers and a big screen experience, and bolstered their stor e in such a way that they compete with steam. Pricing, features... everything. Cornering the PC market would always have been more valuable to them than anything they stood to gain with Xbox. And losing market share to steam deck you say? The real isse is that if Steam OS gets the kinda traction I know they are trying to get, they would lose the PC gaming market in its entirety.

Morons.
 
diffusionx said:
Luckily, MS will be able to see how stupid this strategy is with the first device they made, the question is will they see it.I can go on the "Xbox PC" speculation threads here and every post is like, "yea man it'd be great if Microsoft makes a Xbox PC that lets me install Steam and avoid Microsoft." Like, ok, but how does that help Microsoft? No one can answer that question because it doesn't.

Every Steam Deck sold is a vector for more revenue on Steam. It really is more like a console in that regard. The ROG Ally X or any other "Xbox PC" MS makes is not a vector for more revenue for Microsoft. It's totally idiotic and I have no idea why they are going forward with this.
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It seems like a desperation play just to keep people on Windows in a strange way. Yes you can access Steam on the device, but please do it through Windows and not Steam OS. Like an abstract way to stop Steam OS itself from gaining traction. The storefront may not mean as much to Microsoft as keeping Windows in people's machines and devices. We know Microsoft can endure hits to their bottom line.
The bigger picture being "Please do not be curious and discover Linux and abandon Windows" A very long term and far reaching play however.
 
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I just don't know why anyone would want a PC handheld besides the steam deck. I don't have one but I have played my roommates deck and think its pretty good handheld console. I love the the gyro, and touch pads. The Rog x ally Xbox handheld whatever it is called just has the xbox handles and the interface which i guess is something but that handheld is so ugly to look at. In fact I don't know why anyone would buy the other pc handhelds because what I find is the weight for these devices are too much, and cost too much. From what I can understand not as much flexibility that valve is giving its players, and most importantly the deck as a piece hardware is designed very well and looks good. I look at a rog or other pc handhelds and think about how much they have the same appeal as a 3rd party controller manufacture. Which essential means that it is not appealing.

Also the price is way better at the base unit being $399 and not $599 for the rog xbox or the $1000 variant. Also the idea that Microsoft is going for their digital storefront and vice versa is a battle in a board room over percents and margins. I don't think any of these store fronts are going to compromise how much profit they want to get if they are allowed to have their marketplaces on their "competitors" respective platforms.

Maybe I'm baise because I mainly use Apple computers but same logic in my view on the pc handhelds. Apple computers are beautiful, easy to use, and have a look and feel all their own. I feel that people who get excited about other pc handhelds besides steam deck are the same individuals that love building pc's in glass boxes to show off some rgb lighting or cooling system that they think looks cool but in reality we all know it isn't.
 
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I bought my steam deck during the Summer Sale.

It filled a void I didn't know I had.

Use less time on the PC and more on the couch. Also got a hub so I can plug it into the TV
 
Redeeming Casualty said:
I just don't know why anyone would want a PC handheld besides the steam deck. I don't have one but I have played my roommates deck and think its pretty good handheld console. I love the the gyro, and touch pads. The Rog x ally Xbox handheld whatever it is called just has the xbox handles and the interface which i guess is something but that handheld is so ugly to look at. In fact I don't know why anyone would buy the other pc handhelds because what I find is the weight for these devices are too much, and cost too much. From what I can understand not as much flexibility that valve is giving its players, and most importantly the deck as a piece hardware is designed very well and looks good. I look at a rog or other pc handhelds and think about how much they have the same appeal as a 3rd party controller manufacture. Which essential means that it is not appealing.

Also the price is way better at the base unit being $399 and not $599 for the rog xbox or the $1000 variant. Also the idea that Microsoft is going for their digital storefront and vice versa is a battle in a board room over percents and margins. I don't think any of these store fronts are going to compromise how much profit they want to get if they are allowed to have their marketplaces on their "competitors" respective platforms.

Maybe I'm baise because I mainly use Apple computers but same logic in my view on the pc handhelds. Apple computers are beautiful, easy to use, and have a look and feel all their own. I feel that people who get excited about other pc handhelds besides steam deck are the same individuals that love building pc's in glass boxes to show off some rgb lighting or cooling system that they think looks cool but in reality we all know it isn't.
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Love my oled steamdeck to death. But as someone who has gamepass it's a little annoying I can't load those up natively. So there's that.

My case is a little different as if I am playing anything remotely demanding I just stream it from my PC tho.
 
Microsoft could compete, but they are too cheap to do it.

the Xbox Ally should have been their push to promote the Xbox store on PC. they should have worked with Asus to subsidise the Ally by using it as a vehicle for gamepass and their store, as well as play anywhere.
but for that to work they would have not only needed to sell it without profits, but actually needed to sell it at a loss to get an aggressively priced and powerful handheld on the market.

imagine if the Ally X cost $450 and the non-X one like $300. cheapest handheld on the market, preinstalled and set up to boot into the Xbox store... the potential was there, but wasn't utilised
 
Zacfoldor said:
With the day to day winds of this fast changing market, it would be difficult to decide on a hardware for me at the moment. If I bought the Ally X today, a better thing might be out tomorrow or actually WILL be out very soon to make my 1000 dollar machine obsolete. The Ally X isn't better ENOUGH than the Steamdeck to justify such a huge expense for such a short time of being the flagship in this market.

With steamdeck you have support for games on the device and don't have to deal with Windows jank and also the steamdeck 2 is probably coming out eventually. For the mainstream Switch/Switch 2 would be the recommendation. For the hardcore, I would suggest Steamdeck ecosystem, and I would not recommend this Ally X to anyone. While it might be the best one out when it releases, there will be I'm sure more and better ones coming out right behind it. Might as well stick with a brand you trust to be there and support that specific hardware instead of one who might move on to bigger and better things at the first opportunity.

Let me be even more clear here. Ally X is a niche product that will probably only ever have niche market penetration. It will never be Switch. It will never even be Steamdeck. Buy with caution and assume you will lose most of your equity in the product in a few years.

There is safety in numbers in this racket. Playing on your own obscure platform has risks. That said, smart consumers know how to stay in the game with niche expensive quickly obsolete hardware like this. You buy the best and sell it over and over again. The top end kit holds its value so this might be a decent machine for a high end enthusiast who plans on selling it the second a better machine comes out.
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I think PS5 portable will be a great alternative to xbox ally x.

Likely will be more powerful, cheaper, and will get a good chunk of library as well.

Switch 2 could have been one, but its game selection is different (more limited imo), and most titles lean towards 30 fps.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
I think PS5 portable will be a great alternative to xbox ally x.

Likely will be more powerful, cheaper, and will get a good chunk of library as well.

Switch 2 could have been one, but its game selection is different (more limited imo), and most titles lean towards 30 fps.
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Eh, most things on Ally X will be 30ish FPS as well unless you do frame gen. And frame gen is not ideal if you have less than 60 frames to start.
 
diffusionx said:
Luckily, MS will be able to see how stupid this strategy is with the first device they made, the question is will they see it.I can go on the "Xbox PC" speculation threads here and every post is like, "yea man it'd be great if Microsoft makes a Xbox PC that lets me install Steam and avoid Microsoft." Like, ok, but how does that help Microsoft? No one can answer that question because it doesn't.

Every Steam Deck sold is a vector for more revenue on Steam. It really is more like a console in that regard. The ROG Ally X or any other "Xbox PC" MS makes is not a vector for more revenue for Microsoft. It's totally idiotic and I have no idea why they are going forward with this.
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The more pressing concern is why you're more worried about what 'helps Microsoft' than what you get out of it as a consumer.


Sorcerer said:
It seems like a desperation play just to keep people on Windows in a strange way. Yes you can access Steam on the device, but please do it through Windows and not Steam OS. Like an abstract way to stop Steam OS itself from gaining traction. The storefront may not mean as much to Microsoft as keeping Windows in peoples machines and devices.
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The party with 95% of the PC gaming OS is in 'desperation mode' against the one with 2.7% of the total Steam userbase?


Redeeming Casualty said:
I just don't know why anyone would want a PC handheld besides the steam deck. I don't have one but I have played my roommates deck and think its pretty good handheld console. I love the the gyro, and touch pads. The Rog x ally Xbox handheld whatever it is called just has the xbox handles and the interface which i guess is something but that handheld is so ugly to look at. In fact I don't know why anyone would buy the other pc handhelds because what I find is the weight for these devices are too much, and cost too much. From what I can understand not as much flexibility that valve is giving its players, and most importantly the deck as a piece hardware is designed very well and looks good. I look at a rog or other pc handhelds and think about how much they have the same appeal as a 3rd party controller manufacture. Which essential means that it is not appealing.
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facepalm GIF


"I don't know why everyone else won't have the same subjective opinion as I have"
 
Steam Deck is for those who only use Steam. Windows handhelds are for those who use more than Steam.
 
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Honestly there are three competitors in this space, Nintendo is by far the biggest, then Steam, and then Sony in a couple of years that will surpass Deck lifetime in like 15 months. Windows handhelds are a niche within a niche.
 
kevboard said:
Microsoft could compete, but they are too cheap to do it.

the Xbox Ally should have been their push to promote the Xbox store on PC. they should have worked with Asus to subsidise the Ally by using it as a vehicle for gamepass and their store, as well as play anywhere.
but for that to work they would have not only needed to sell it without profits, but actually needed to sell it at a loss to get an aggressively priced and powerful handheld on the market.

imagine if the Ally X cost $450 and the non-X one like $300. cheapest handheld on the market, preinstalled and set up to boot into the Xbox store... the potential was there, but wasn't utilised
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You expected The company that is removing subsidies on their walled garden consoles (where they actually capture revenue from every single purchase made) to now pay Asus hundreds of dollars on every unit sold…units that would have most of their purchases done on Steam?


Really?
 
diffusionx said:
What type of idiocy is this? The question is what Microsoft is going to do, and they're not a charity.
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How the hell are you babbling on about 'charity' when they're going to sell the hardware unsubsidized, with a profit margin?

My word.

They'll also use it as a vector for Xbox store purchases and GamePass subs.
 
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Ozriel said:
You expected The company that is removing subsidies on their walled garden consoles (where they actually capture revenue from every single purchase made) to now pay Asus hundreds of dollars on every unit sold…units that would have most of their purchases done on Steam?


Really?
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where did I say I would expect it? do you speak English? I literally said the opposite.

I said, that this is what they should have done if they were serious about promoting their Xbox store and play anywhere. but they are too cheap to do it
 
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kevboard said:
where did I say I would expect it? do you speak English? I literally said the opposite.

I said, that this is what they should have done if they were serious about promoting their Xbox store and play anywhere
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They don't need to subsidize the hardware to promote Play Anywhere or Xbox Store. The same software overlay is showing up on all PC handhelds, including the heavily discounted Z1E Ally and Legion Go handhelds.

Subsidizing this would not have been a sensible choice. Especially when most purchases would still be on Steam, anyway.
 
Ozriel said:
They don't need to subsidize the hardware to promote Play Anywhere or Xbox Store. The same software overlay is showing up on all PC handhelds, including the heavily discounted Z1E Ally and Legion Go handhelds.

Subsidizing this would not have been a sensible choice. Especially when most purchases would still be on Steam, anyway.
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not a single other handheld has the Xbox full screen mode installed and activated as the default.
the only way to get it on other systems currently is to download the insider build of Windows and then modify it. and who knows how long until any other handheld will ship with it as the default setup?

having an Xbox branded cheap and powerful PC handheld would have been a way better PR move for the Xbox store than any expensive unsubsidized handheld could ever do.
 
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kevboard said:
not a single other handheld has the Xbox full screen mode installed and activated as the default.
the only way to get it on other systems currently is to download the insider build of Windows and then modify it. and who knows how long until any other handheld will ship with it as the default setup?
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Q1 2026 is the target for other handhelds.

that's not that far away

kevboard said:
having an Xbox branded cheap and powerful PC handheld would have been a way better PR move for the Xbox store than any expensive unsubsidized handheld could ever do.
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It would have been a daft decision to remove subsidies for their console and then turn around to subsidize an handheld PC.

Existing Windows based PC handhelds already have the Xbox store front and center. Including the ones heavily discounted.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
I think PS5 portable will be a great alternative to xbox ally x.

Likely will be more powerful, cheaper, and will get a good chunk of library as well.

Switch 2 could have been one, but its game selection is different (more limited imo), and most titles lean towards 30 fps.
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I am not so optimistic about the PS portable software support. Thankfully, we will have an idea of how good the PS portable software library will be when the PS5 games start getting low power mode support.
 
Fairly confident Valve aren't subsidizing, and are making a profit on all hardware sales, probably razer thin on the base model but for the extra storage ones - probably in line with what Asus makes on the xbox ally x.
Valve aren't dumb enough to lose $100 on each steam deck hoping to claw it back through software sales.
 
A $1000 handheld is a tough pill sto swallow. I want the new Legion Go, but I can get a drastically more powerful laptop for the same price.

That fact alone makes these handhelds tought to justify.

I'm legit wondering if I should have just gone with a cheap LCD steamdeck and call it a day.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
A $1000 handheld is a tough pill sto swallow.
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The cold hard facts about that:

Outside of the rich geeks here who have money to burn and the ones who love to throw around "stay poor" are the major minority who can afford this stuff.

The economy globally is in the shitter outside of the top 5-10%

A $1,000 console, hand held, or whatever tech is suicide today and will never sell to the masses no matter how much value it brings. The only exception to that rule are cell phones because they can be subsidized and paid over time on a phone contract. Despite that even the Apple cult is buying like they use too.
 
Fess said:
Steam Deck is for those who only use Steam. Windows handhelds are for those who use more than Steam.
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What?

You can install games from everywhere but the windows store on the deck, and that's with the default linux OS.
 
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When your entire device's marketing strategy is now "it runs Steam" (and you aren't Valve), you have a big problem. This will be a good device for a time, for a small niche. At the end of the day, you are paying a huge premium to play PC games on the most powerful handheld that might compete with mid range gaming laptops, but loses in price/performance to most other devices and will not have the ecosystem and software support to the level of Steam Deck.
 
Tobimacoss said:
Bad drivers, not something tech illiterate users would want to or can do.

Steam Deck and SteamOS are useless for the following players:

Minecraft
FortNite
Call of Duty
Battlefield 6
Madden 26
EA FC 26
Xbox users
Play Anywhere users
Gamepass users
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And anyone who doesn't want to be trapped into one digital storefront. One of the main reasons I ditching this Legion Go S and getting an Xbox ROG Ally X.
 
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