buttnuggett
Gold Member
BTW, we're trying to get the Iranians to rise up. Well, good luck with that if we blow up their power plants that power their phones.
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Monitoring the situation in Iran
- Thread starter EviLore
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BTW, we're trying to get the Iranians to rise up. Well, good luck with that if we blow up their power plants that power their phones.
fair enough I don't
buttnuggett
Gold Member
Could be. Or it could that Trump overplayed his hand and got us in a quagmire.
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BattleScar
Banned
The entire administration fails to meet that criteria. Cause none of them are doing it themselves.
War is easy when its at a distance.
The ones who deserve the respect are the soldiers who carried out the rescue operation. Not the sophistry performed by politicians who are responsible for putting that pilot in a situation of needing to be rescued in the first place.
buttnuggett
Gold Member
Well, it's not like Iran was playing nice.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
It being a war crime does rather reduce the lols.
It's kind of incredible that people would back the President on this. If he goes through with it, he'll have damaged the reputation of the united states in a way nobody could have expected. And this is a man who presided over an insurrection and got re-elected.
Trump threats cause dilemma for US officers: disobey orders or commit war crimes
Legal experts say attacking Iran’s infrastructure would constitute a war crime – but would military officers be held responsible?
www.theguardian.com
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
The war is about nukes. The oil is a bonus.
The_hunter
Member
The mascot character in a JRPG
buttnuggett
Gold Member
It's about the petrol dollar. Even if we win, we're still fucked and lose. Hello, fortress Western Hemisphere.
Yesterwynde
Neo Member
Europe right now:
They learned from the best.
j0hnnix
Member
They've fucked up Irans public infrastructure with no repercussions before, all because of israel:
2020 Iran explosions - Wikipedia
Israel keeps blowing up military targets in Iran, hoping to force a confrontation before Trump can be voted out in November, sources say
Iran has suffered a series of bombings and fires at major military facilities in recent weeks.
www.businessinsider.com
Covert attacks on power plants, petrochemical companies, enrichment facilities and medical clinics in 2020:
Israel has continuously wanted this war. Mainly Netanyahu. Nothing will happen to their reputation because nobody calls out this behaviour as state terrorism.
Same when Netanyahu was ordering the covert killing of someone in a hotel in Dubia using forged British and European passports in 2011. Or the journalist diced in an embassy by Saudi's that they were caught on only due to Turkey exposing them.
Trump got voted out back then before a overt war mostly because Iran didn't really begin a fullscale war after the 2020 attack. He's doing it again now that his reputation is in tatters having ruined Irans too. A lot less clandestine. he armed a bunch of thugs in Iran and incited a near civil war as well. A boat from florida tried to create violence by smuggling a bunch of weapons into Cuba recently too and they're going through the civil unrest of sanctions and a blockade as well. Wait a few months or a year or two.
US's own intelligence was saying there was no evidence of a nuclear weapons program but that's not going to stop anyone. The first casualty of war is truth.
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"A chorus of expert voices warned this could happen: Iran retaliating by blockading the Strait of Hormuz. This vital but narrow waterway shepherds through a fifth of the world's crude oil and a third of its granular urea, a type of nitrogen fertilizer. Oil prices of more than $100 a barrel have been headline news for weeks. Less noticed is that future deliveries of Middle Eastern granular urea have spiraled from $484 per ton on Feb. 27 to $750 per ton as of Friday."
Didn't realise a third of global granular urea fert goes thru the Strait.
www.nbcnews.com
Didn't realise a third of global granular urea fert goes thru the Strait.
Iran war's shock waves threaten England's farms 6,000 miles away
At a potato farm in eastern England, workers are thrown into an unfolding crisis as the war launched by the U.S. and Israel threatens shortages of fuel and fertilizer.
www.nbcnews.com
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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Unknown Soldier
Banned
Jaybe
Member
This is nonsense. Apparently there are zero civilian uses for uranium to be enriched beyond 20% and yet it is understood by the UN that "Iran has 440.9 kilograms (972 pounds) of uranium that is enriched up to 60% purity, a short, technical step from weapons-grade levels of 90%, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency." I guess they just did all that extra enrichment for the fun of it.
Securing Iran's enriched uranium by force would be risky and complex, experts say
Should the U.S. decide to send in military forces to secure Iran’s uranium stockpile, it would be a complex, risky and lengthy operation, fraught with radiation and chemical dangers, according to experts and former government officials.
www.pbs.org
Jaybe
Member
There are several uses which aren't nuclear weapons though and 60% isn't nuclear warhead grade. This includes powering a submarine (with no nuclear warheads). The UK operates subs with no nuclear warheads using 97% enriched uranium to last 30 years. This doesn't mean nuclear weapons use and that's nuclear warhead grade. The US intelligence agency said there is no evidence that iran was developing a nuclear weapon. Look it up, US's own intelligence. They even kept well below 60% under the deal they had with the US/Obama but once that was torn up by Trump his excuse was born. Much like Netanyahu pushed for invading Iraq with WMDs that weren't there it's all bullshit. Now Netanyahu is pushing to attack Iran with the same excuses. Why should they legally keep below that threshold after Trump tore up the deal anyway? They even offered to dilute what they have in negotiations but warmongering Trump obviously had other plans. Same with venezuela and its excuse of drugs. It's regional interests via bullshit fearmongering. With fentanyl now classified as a 'WMD' in Dec 2025 I wonder what country/boats they are going to justify attacking next with that excuse.This is nonsense. Apparently there are zero civilian uses for uranium to be enriched beyond 20% and yet it is understood by the UN that "Iran has 440.9 kilograms (972 pounds) of uranium that is enriched up to 60% purity, a short, technical step from weapons-grade levels of 90%, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency." I guess they just did all that extra enrichment for the fun of it.
Securing Iran's enriched uranium by force would be risky and complex, experts say
Should the U.S. decide to send in military forces to secure Iran’s uranium stockpile, it would be a complex, risky and lengthy operation, fraught with radiation and chemical dangers, according to experts and former government officials.
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Terrorist zealots who shoot ballistic missiles en masse at civilian targets, yes, we should definitely let them have nuclear submarines too.
Submarines were an example. They could build self powered bunkers for defence too. Iran hasn't really ever been an aggressor in its history. Saddam with the US invaded Iran after the US lost the oil control over Iran, yet iran lived with saddam as a neighbour for decades without war. Then the US decided to invade Iraq. Ironically that was its enemy and not the country it invaded.
They weren't even designated terrorists before when they had their embassy in other countries bombed, had state sponsored US-israel cyber attacks against civilian infrastructure in 2010, had a general killed on a visit to a neighbouring country, had scientists killed in car bomb terrorist attacks on the streets of their cities, had civilian ifrastructure attacked in 2020, 2025 and now 2026. Imagine this was US scientists, imagine this was US infrastructure and some other state trying to enforce these things. There would be hell to pay. But hatred breeds hatred.
Now we have an ordeal with the strait. In WW we (the UK) had a maritime blockade of Germany, laid sea mines to block all boats including food, that was to combat the aggressor/invader Germany in that conflict and justified. 700k people died of starvation in Germany due to it. At least humanitarian ships are let through the strait today. They weren't in Gaza mind.
Maybe we should surrender to their will, yes. Whatever they want to do with enriched uranium is no concern of anyone else. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
lachesis
Member
Ever heard of NK? Due to idle negligence of so called international diplomacy, they were able to build nukes, export missile tech and parts to Iran, aid Russian invasion of Ukraine, and has ability to hit US with their missile. I think it's pretty naive of you thinking Iranians were enriching weapon grade uranium to sit around and sing Kum-ba-ya in some boyscout bonfire.
And yes, end game definitely is CCP. Venezuela, and Iran - sold pretty much entirety of their oil to China at dirt cheap price using shady practices.
Probably that's why Trump is visiting China for showdown, conveniently delaying to mid May, so he can have more bargaining chip.
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Their will was to dilute it down and have US inspections as well as IAEA inspections which for some reason was rejected. What was wrong with their will to still have nuclear power plants? They've been "weeks away from a nuclear bomb" since 1995 according to Netanyahu.
Gp1
Member
And that's not considering that they were involved in virtually every conflict in the middle east.
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Sure I've heard of them. They have a nuclear deterence now and were helped by the Soviet Union/Pakistan, who have they attacked though?
The Iranians didn't want nuclear weapons hence why they signed an agreement with the US not to do it and got sanctions relief, joined the IAEA unlike NK and Israel, still only enriched to below weapons grade after those were gone despite being offered no deterence of invasion or aggression and stuck with the IAEA rules while their facilities were being bombed and sabotaged in 2011/2020. They even offered to dilute it after the US pulled out of their specific deal and again had heavy snapback sanctions against them, now they're having their country attacked. That's not kum-ba-ya at a boyscout campfire but for all the wrong reasons.
Are they going to hang anyone one that refuses?
lachesis
Member
So in your opinion, every country should have a nuke to protect themselves? Oh boy, you will be very welcomed in our NRA.
And if they didn't want a nuke, whey did they lie to IAEA that they never had nuclear weapons program, and there were like half ton of evidence and documents of nuclear weapons dev research and all...
It's hard to trust especially when they lie again and again, and require their children to chant "Death to America, Death to Israel" every morning ritual since 1979 - sanctioned or not sanctioned.
YCoCg
Member
"Please come and possibly die for us so we can then say how terrible America is for doing that"
I think countries should not be invaded or attacked and therefore have no need for a nuke to begin with. It seems it's the ones with nukes that seem to have security and deterence though and NK is minding its own business and not attacking anyone.So in your opinion, every country should have a nuke to protect themselves? Oh boy, you will be very welcomed in our NRA.
And if they didn't want a nuke, whey did they lie to IAEA that they never had nuclear weapons program, and there were like half ton of evidence and documents of nuclear weapons dev research and all...
They didnt lie. They've had no such program unless you're talking pre-2003
"The IAEA Verdict: In December 2015, the IAEA concluded that a "coordinated" effort to develop a nuclear device did exist in Iran prior to 2003, but did not find evidence of such activities after 2009."
After the JCPOA in 2015 there has been zero evidence of a nuclear weapons program either despite what Netanyahu keeps trying to push. He did the same with nuclear weapons/WMDs in iraq:
It was all a bunch of horseshit.
They don't require their kids to chant anything but a lot of people there don't like the US because they overthrew their democratically elected government in a 1953 coup orchestrated by the CIA to install a government that would give them the oil vs the one elected who was nationalising it. Then the US endorsed an invasion of Iran through Iraq a year after that pro-US goverment was overthrown, that cost them 500,000 iranian lives. Now I bet they love everyone even more after this year! It must be because they're "required" to do it though I'm sure.
They also chant "death to terrorism" and "death to the taliban" when 9/11 happened.
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LyricalShrike
Member
Did you read the article? It made a few good points particularly about the consequences of the US not taking control of the strait after starting a military campaign.
lachesis
Member
And what's also true is Iran didn't come 100% clean during JCPOA about their weapons program in its entirety, as well as several undeclared sites IAEA found - on top of that, hid and archived their program so that they can legally resume in 10-15yrs.
Also they do require their students chant, unless the Iranians who say so are lying about it.
If you are talking about Iranian history and how US is the bad actor here, 1921 coup is orchestrated by UK originally to install the king to protect their oil interest and against Soviet - so the original "sin", is on UK, no? As far as I know, 1953 coup, also MI6 was heavily involved as well. And honestly as corrupt they may have been, people would have been better off than this crazy theocratic government who puts their people to gather at power plant, knowing they'll be killed.
NK isn't minding its own business and their business stinks. Even they condemned 9/11, although they are one of the active terrorist government. It's not sudden realization of consciousness - they were just shit afraid of retaliation.
Now, they've been actively supplying their weapons program to Iran, as well as actively sending their soldiers to fight in Ukraine - and it's much more difficult to subdue their activities now as they have nukes now. That itself set back the reunification dreams of the Korean peninsula quite a bit.
As long as it's not happening on your backyard = all good and fine type of mentality, that's why I think you are quite naive.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I don't think that's something that's American. To feel like you wouldn't leave your brothers in arms alone? I have friends that serve in various parts of the UK army and they all hold that same mentality. I have that same mentality. Human life, especially your brothers in arms should be saved not seen as replaceable like a physical plane is.
I think that's fair as long as the US is heavily involved or leads it.
Senua
Member
There was/is no know nuclear weapons program. Especially during JCPOA. Just look up US intelligence assessments.
I know a lot of people from Iran. There is no requirement to chant anything. They are required to do religious studies though which a lot of people hate.
Yes but it was also the billions in dollars/aid, the chemicals and war equipment that the US sent Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war that really created that resentment for some people.
Does iran look like it's afraid? They weren't afraid of retaliation for 9/11 especial the ordinary people who were the ones in the street chanting death to the taliban. They had absolutely nothing to do with it. What a stupid thing to suggest for condemning a terrorist attack. Plus Afghanistan condemned it too but they were invaded anyway.
By this logic israel or US shouldn't have them either I suppose, it makes it more difficult to subdue their invasions too? Maybe if Ukraine had them or was part of NATO who had them it wouldn't have happened, or maybe we can all just try to push for peace and condemn all the people who decide to bomb other nations.
Absolutely ridiculous assessment considering you know nothing about me. I'm curious now though, is the middle east your backyard?
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Avid Reading Horse
Member
Indeed, were I to have had a physical copy of NYT in my hands I would have thrown it on the ground.
Whenever I want to read up on the opposing view via NYT I always get paywalled anyway so I don't even try anymore. They're not getting a dollar from me.
StueyDuck
Member
Only one side has to be held accountable for war crimes... great system we have for the worldIt being a war crime does rather reduce the lols.
It's kind of incredible that people would back the President on this. If he goes through with it, he'll have damaged the reputation of the united states in a way nobody could have expected. And this is a man who presided over an insurrection and got re-elected.
Trump threats cause dilemma for US officers: disobey orders or commit war crimes
Legal experts say attacking Iran’s infrastructure would constitute a war crime – but would military officers be held responsible?
Baemono
Gold Member
Litteraly Top Gun's plot, amazing
Critical Hit
Member
You don't seem to be very familiar with how NATO operated in Yugoslavia.
LyricalShrike
Member
Indeed, were I to have had a physical copy of NYT in my hands I would have thrown it on the ground.
Whenever I want to read up on the opposing view via NYT I always get paywalled anyway so I don't even try anymore. They're not getting a dollar from me.
You've never heard of clean bypass?
Wildebeest
Member
Americans don't care because they are a big petrochemical exporter and the barons are currently having the party of their lifetimes celebrating the booming market."A chorus of expert voices warned this could happen: Iran retaliating by blockading the Strait of Hormuz. This vital but narrow waterway shepherds through a fifth of the world's crude oil and a third of its granular urea, a type of nitrogen fertilizer. Oil prices of more than $100 a barrel have been headline news for weeks. Less noticed is that future deliveries of Middle Eastern granular urea have spiraled from $484 per ton on Feb. 27 to $750 per ton as of Friday."
Didn't realise a third of global granular urea fert goes thru the Strait.
Iran war's shock waves threaten England's farms 6,000 miles away
At a potato farm in eastern England, workers are thrown into an unfolding crisis as the war launched by the U.S. and Israel threatens shortages of fuel and fertilizer.
Wildebeest
Member
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