Support NeoGAF

[ChuckeRearmed]

I figured everyone would be celebrating this morning. Wars over straight's opening up. That's a win. Big difference from where we were 24 hours ago. Night and day. This is a huge win. I feel terrible for the Iranian people but I would feel even worse for them without power for years.

There is nothing to celebrate as - by and large - nothing much has changed. Yeah, Iran has grown weaker. Yeah, it will continue digging up their missiles. The problem is that optics wise it looks like a huge loss regardless of the actual result. Which is surprising considering how Trump likes wins - but in this case no matter what he says, it does not look like a win to anybody. The reaction varies from "oh it has finally ended" to "he chicked out" to "JD Chamberlain". Those who did not like the conflct, wouldn't have liked it anyway and those who supported it would not like the outcome either.

Let's see how it is going to develop. Nobody knows much regarding what has happened behind the scenes.

 

[AJUMP23]

All that has been debunked. Especially the parts about Uranium. Trump and the WH have already stated that Iran agreed to allow the US to come in and dig it up and remove it.

 

[Bojji]

There is nothing to celebrate as - by and large - nothing much has changed. Yeah, Iran has grown weaker. Yeah, it will continue digging up their missiles. The problem is that optics wise it looks like a huge loss regardless of the actual result. Which is surprising considering how Trump likes wins - but in this case no matter what he says, it does not look like a win to anybody. The reaction varies from "oh it has finally ended" to "he chicked out" to "JD Chamberlain". Those who did not like the conflct, wouldn't have liked it anyway and those who supported it would not like the outcome either.

Let's see how it is going to develop. Nobody knows much regarding what has happened behind the scenes.

Iran may be weaker now but they will gather huge amounts of money in the near future.

Outcome is not good at all.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I think the war was a major mistake to begin with. Should have been a pure CIA/Mossad operation to do a regime change slowly from within. Either Trump was too impatient, or he genuinely wanted to help the Iranians who were being executed. I don't know which, but I do know that regime change without a ground invasion is impossible, and a ground invasion with a medium level of casualties is politically impossible in the US. Hopefully it is beyond clear to congress that the US has no ability to push around countries anymore without sufficient anti-drone and anti-missile tech. This is a solvable problem (especially with the massive economic incentive to do so) so this is a temporary state of affairs. I'm just glad this flaw was revealed in a situation where the US can easily back out of the war. If China targets US bases in the Pacific in a Taiwan invasion, there will be no backing out.

But after the war started and our "allies" denied the use of bases I think Trump now needs to make the case to congress that we need to leave NATO. It is clear to me that Europe will not help with China, therefore they are completely worthless as a military ally. The key is don't do it with some bullshit executive order, go through the proper legal process so there is no question. I'm not saying cut economic or diplomatic ties, but they offer absolutely nothing militarily if we are only allowed to use the bases in operations that they approve of.

 

[Bojji]

I think the war was a major mistake to begin with. Should have been a pure CIA/Mossad operation to do a regime change slowly from within. Either Trump was too impatient, or he genuinely wanted to help the Iranians who were being executed. I don't know which, but I do know that regime change without a ground invasion is impossible, and a ground invasion with a medium level of casualties is politically impossible in the US. Hopefully it is beyond clear to congress that the US has no ability to push around countries anymore without sufficient anti-drone and anti-missile tech. This is a solvable problem (especially with the massive economic incentive to do so) so this is a temporary state of affairs. I'm just glad this flaw was revealed in a situation where the US can easily back out of the war. If China targets US bases in the Pacific in a Taiwan invasion, there will be no backing out.

But after the war started and our "allies" denied the use of bases I think Trump now needs to make the case to congress that we need to leave NATO. It is clear to me that Europe will not help with China, therefore they are completely worthless as a military ally. The key is don't do it with some bullshit executive order, go through the proper legal process so there is no question. I'm not saying cut economic or diplomatic ties, but they offer absolutely nothing militarily if we are only allowed to use the bases in operations that they approve of.

USA prepares for war with China now?

 

[AJUMP23]

Stats for nerds

 

[j0hnnix]

Yeah I believe it. Like I believe one morning I'll wake up to Megan Fox.

 

[adamsapple]

But after the war started and our "allies" denied the use of bases I think Trump now needs to make the case to congress that we need to leave NATO.

Sure, why not. He already spent months threatening to do military action against a NATO nation, at this point why not just burn the last spokes of the bridge on the way out.

Clearly NATO doesn't look at the US the same way it did just a few years ago either.

 

[delirium trigger]

"According to Iran"

 

[Hari Seldon]

USA prepares for war with China now?

The US has a lot of allies within missile range of China, namely Japan, the Philippines, and South Korea. Of course we need to be prepared to defend them.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Sure, why not. He already spent months threatening to do military action against a NATO nation, at this point why not just burn the last spokes of the bridge on the way out.

Clearly NATO doesn't look at the US the same way it did just a few years ago either.

What is the point of being in NATO if the one thing that NATO offers, military bases, is denied?

 

[Bojji]

The US has a lot of allies within missile range of China, namely Japan, the Philippines, and South Korea. Of course we need to be prepared to defend them.

Those countries aren't in NATO so I don't know why anyone would expect NATO to defend them.

There are peace deals between USA and those countries.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[adamsapple]

What is the point of being in NATO if the one thing that NATO offers, military bases, is denied?

For starters, NATO is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one.

Secondly, NATO nations directly under attack or threat of attack can invoke article 5 which compels other NATO nations to help, Turkey was the closest country and shot down some Iranian drones but they didn't invoke article 5, so there was no need or obligation for other NATO nations in the first place.

Now, in the past, would that have stopped countries like UK from immediately coming to the US's help? No, but clearly they're all tired and wary of the current admin's threats and messaging. Can't really blame them tbh.

 

[Critical Hit]

so you think some ukrainians got to uae and bringed drone with themself just to fake it? you're expert I'm just asking.

UAE? You must have confused a piece of particle board with sand. There is no UAE in the video, just as there's no news or reaction from the UAE itself, from reputable media outlets or from the US officials.

Yeah I believe it. Like I believe one morning I'll wake up to Megan Fox.

It could happen. When she's 90 and broke. The IRGC still have a slimmer chance.

USA prepares for war with China now?

China wants to take control of Taiwan, no one but the US will be able to stop them. But I'm no longer sure the US will want to get involved.

 

[LordCBH]

Stats for nerds

Sounds like my typical workday following a long night of D&D.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Sure, why not. He already spent months threatening to do military action against a NATO nation, at this point why not just burn the last spokes of the bridge on the way out.

Clearly NATO doesn't look at the US the same way it did just a few years ago either.

NATO has never looked at USA the same way USA was looking at NATO. And Iranian war just revealed it openly for everybody to see - showing that NATO is something Europe found convenient for themselves, but did not care about american interests at all. After closing the airspace because certain countries did not like what USA was doing it is clear that Europe wants USA to be involved only when Europe needs something. Like in war with China or anybody it is pretty clear that any moment Europe will decide to close the airspace and such.

 

[devutos]

Iran's total budget is about 100b dollars. Their defense budget about 10b.
If they do implement the toll as planned, it would be enough to almost double their total budget, or increase defense spend tenfold.
Great job Mr President!

 

[Hari Seldon]

For starters, NATO is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one.

Secondly, NATO nations directly under attack or threat of attack can invoke article 5 which compels other NATO nations to help, Turkey was the closest country and shot down some Iranian drones but they didn't invoke article 5, so there was no need or obligation for other NATO nations in the first place.

Now, in the past, would that have stopped countries like UK from immediately coming to the US's help? No, but clearly they're all tired and wary of the current admin's threats and messaging. Can't really blame them tbh.

From the US's point of view, what do they get out of being in NATO other than the bases? Europe has no navy, no army, a token airforce, and a small amount of nukes. (To their credit, they do have solid spec ops). They have no ability to project power, because they have no power to project and zero logistical ability. A population that is highly questionable they would even bother to enlist to defend anything. They are worthless in a fight against China. And for all their talk about this being related to Trump, they didn't believe Biden when US intelligence was warning against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

 

[ElFenomeno]

NATO has never looked at USA the same way USA was looking at NATO. And Iranian war just revealed it openly for everybody to see - showing that NATO is something Europe found convenient for themselves, but did not care about american interests at all. After closing the airspace because certain countries did not like what USA was doing it is clear that Europe wants USA to be involved only when Europe needs something. Like in war with China or anybody it is pretty clear that any moment Europe will decide to close the airspace and such.

Being in an alliance doesn't automatically make you a slave to the US. Europe is a collection of sovereign countries. US has never acted unilaterally without NATO's backing?
Never cared about the US? Iraq rings a bell?
War with China? NATO stands for North Atlantic - go and check a world map.

 

[BattleScar]

NATO has never looked at USA the same way USA was looking at NATO. And Iranian war just revealed it openly for everybody to see - showing that NATO is something Europe found convenient for themselves, but did not care about american interests at all. After closing the airspace because certain countries did not like what USA was doing it is clear that Europe wants USA to be involved only when Europe needs something. Like in war with China or anybody it is pretty clear that any moment Europe will decide to close the airspace and such.

You're kind of right. The USA viewed NATO as a means by which they could project power, rather than an actual alliance.
ONLY the US has invoked Article 5, and Europe dutifully came to their aid with Iraq.

Except now, Trump has been threatening the sovereignty of NATO allies. So....why the fuck would they want to help with an offensive war, which isn't even covered by the agreement.

Of course Europe don't care about American interests, because America doesn't seem to care about European interests. The threat of invading Greenland was not taken lightly.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[adamsapple]

From the US's point of view, what do they get out of being in NATO other than the bases? Europe has no navy, no army, a token airforce, and a small amount of nukes. (To their credit, they do have solid spec ops). They have no ability to project power, because they have no power to project and zero logistical ability. A population that is highly questionable they would even bother to enlist to defend anything. They are worthless in a fight against China. And for all their talk about this being related to Trump, they didn't believe Biden when US intelligence was warning against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I think we're downplaying the impact just having active bases in NATO nations does, it's successfully kept the US as the top figurehead of the global power scale and helps keep Russia and China in check to an extent. Without a NATO like alliance, Russia would very likely be a much bigger nuisance than it is right now.

The one time the US did invoke the NATO charter, basically every NATO nation was there to help (post 9/11). And even though there was no unanimous NATO agreement to help the US for Iraq, multiple NATO members did come individually.

For all intents and purposes, the US and NATO are mutually beneficial to each other, the US pays the biggest share of the monetary contribution, sure, but they also get the most benefits like keeping their armed forces and maintaining bases in other countries that many other NATO nations don't.

lol

 

[RoboFu]

From the US's point of view, what do they get out of being in NATO other than the bases? Europe has no navy, no army, a token airforce, and a small amount of nukes. (To their credit, they do have solid spec ops). They have no ability to project power, because they have no power to project and zero logistical ability. A population that is highly questionable they would even bother to enlist to defend anything. They are worthless in a fight against China. And for all their talk about this being related to Trump, they didn't believe Biden when US intelligence was warning against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

NATO is just a big mafia scam type now except in reverse. " you protect us but we don't won't pay ".


The problem with this " war " if you can call it that is all the side agendas. The US can destroy the enemy at any time but the president wants to make deals for oil not just take away weapons.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Being in an alliance doesn't automatically make you a slave to the US. Europe is a collection of sovereign countries. US has never acted unilaterally without NATO's backing?
Never cared about the US? Iraq rings a bell?
War with China? NATO stands for North Atlantic - go and check a world map.

Iraq what? USA did not want to invoke Article 5 themselves - Tony Blair did. It is hilarious that europeans always bring Iraq/Afghanistan as an achievement - using the same logic USA helped in WW1 and WW2, eaning it is 2-1 in USA favour then. And if we exlcude WW1, then it is 1-1. So USA and Europe are even.

 

[Ironbunny]

NATO is just a big mafia scam type now except in reverse. " you protect us but we don't want pay ".

You protect us and we keep the dollar with you as the worlds reserve currency...and so that you can also keep printing money.

 

[Vestal]

Iraq what? USA did not want to invoke Article 5 themselves - Tony Blair did. It is hilarious that europeans always bring Iraq/Afghanistan as an achievement - using the same logic USA helped in WW1 and WW2, eaning it is 2-1 in USA favour then. And if we exlcude WW1, then it is 1-1. So USA and Europe are even.

Article 5 was not about Iraq.....


"On September 12, 2001, the day after the 9/11 attacks, NATO met in an emergency session. For the first and only time in its history, NATO invoked Article 5. All 18 of the United States's allies stated they would support America's response to the attacks. "

International Community Responds | National September 11 Memorial & Museum

www.911memorial.org

 

[adamsapple]

Iraq what? USA did not want to invoke Article 5 themselves - Tony Blair did.

Article 5 was never invoked for Iraq, it's only been done once post 9/11.

 

[Thaimasker]

The strait is closed again after the attack on lebanon

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Oh it seems like it is a part of the interview so nothing new.

 

[Forsete]

You're kind of right. The USA viewed NATO as a means by which they could project power, rather than an actual alliance.
ONLY the US has invoked Article 5, and Europe dutifully came to their aid with Iraq.

Except now, Trump has been threatening the sovereignty of NATO allies. So....why the fuck would they want to help with an offensive war, which isn't even covered by the agreement.

Of course Europe don't care about American interests, because America doesn't seem to care about European interests. The threat of invading Greenland was not taken lightly.

.. and they were left in the dark about the planning of the attack. "Not to leak secrets", because we are apparently already muzlimz.

Maybe in a decade or two the relations can start to improve a bit. Even the most die hard MAGA fans over here have given up now (except Orcban, but he will hopefully be out by Sunday).
Putin and Xi must be fapping non stop at how bad EU-US relations have gotten.

 

[Vestal]

Such a massive CLUSTER FUCK!!!

We need the adults in the room to take over..

edit: Oh wait

 

[ADiTAR]

If doesn't include Lebanon, so at least Israel should wipe out Hezbollah. Hope.

 

[adamsapple]

If doesn't include Lebanon, so at least Israel should wipe out Hezbollah. Hope.

It includes Lebanon at least per the Pakistani PM who was mediating the talks.

Iran war updates: Trump suspends US attacks, Tehran agrees to ceasefire

These were the updates on the US-Israeli attacks on Iran for Tuesday, April 7.

www.aljazeera.com

Pakistan's PM says ceasefire agreement includes 'Lebanon and elsewhere', confirms Friday talks

Pakistan's Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif has said the ceasefire agreement between Iran and the US, along with their allies, includes "Lebanon and elsewhere" and is effective immediately.

"I warmly welcome the sagacious gesture and extend deepest gratitude to the leadership of both the countries and invite their delegations to Islamabad on Friday, 10th April 2026, to further negotiate for a conclusive agreement to settle all disputes," Sharif wrote in a social media post.

He stressed that both parties have displayed "remarkable wisdom and understanding and have remained constructively engaged in furthering the cause of peace and stability" throughout his high-stakes mediation.

"We earnestly hope that the 'Islamabad Talks' succeed in achieving sustainable peace and wish to share more good news in coming days!" Sharif said.

Now Trump is saying it doesn't include Lebanon.

We're back to square one.

 

[Vestal]

It includes Lebanon at least per the Pakistani PM who was mediating the talks.

Iran war updates: Trump suspends US attacks, Tehran agrees to ceasefire

These were the updates on the US-Israeli attacks on Iran for Tuesday, April 7.

www.aljazeera.com

Now Trump is saying it doesn't include Lebanon.

We're back to square one.

Its a fucking mess and Israel just bombed the living shit out of Lebanon.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Damn, Israel not letting us feel any peace.

 

[Bojji]

The problem with this " war " if you can call it that is all the side agendas. The US can destroy the enemy at any time but the president wants to make deals for oil not just take away weapons.

This is very big oversimplification.

Iran is a country as big as Alaska, with population of 90M people. And it has terrain that would be an absolute bitch for any country that would want to attack it.

USA could win this war, but that would require big military operation on the ground.

 

[Zacfoldor]

There is nothing to celebrate as - by and large - nothing much has changed. Yeah, Iran has grown weaker. Yeah, it will continue digging up their missiles. The problem is that optics wise it looks like a huge loss regardless of the actual result. Which is surprising considering how Trump likes wins - but in this case no matter what he says, it does not look like a win to anybody. The reaction varies from "oh it has finally ended" to "he chicked out" to "JD Chamberlain". Those who did not like the conflct, wouldn't have liked it anyway and those who supported it would not like the outcome either.

Let's see how it is going to develop. Nobody knows much regarding what has happened behind the scenes.

I suppose that I see it slightly differently. I do totally agree with your take and understand it but I also see it this way.

Yesterday there was the possibility that we would destroy the electrical infrastructure for millions of people, putting them in the dark for a decade or more. Today that possibility is very unlikely and it looks like tensions are cooling. This is very good for total human suffering in the world.

I think that it might not be truly appreciated how terrible having no electricity is.

We are so hyper aware of the small political nuances of our leaders at home but that isn't really important. I agree that political posturing is such human-slop. It's insane and crazy and always has been. It's silly. Politics itself is just a method of societal control. Our real job our only job is to guide the ship to reduce human suffering and improve quality of life as we progress. In that job, yesterday was a very good day. Could it have been better? Sure.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Good news.

I think it's highlighted that sometimes you need to have lengthy (boring) diplomacy - with allies, enemies and neutrals.

The strong arm approach cannot be the only tool at your disposal.

 

[ADiTAR]

Damn, Israel not letting us feel any peace.

Hezbollah joined in, why should Israel not retaliate?

God, terrorist simps are the worst kind of people. Go back to Ree where you belong.

 

[devutos]

This is just great for Israel. Do anything Iran doesn't like? No worries, Hormuz is closed again. From now and forever. And soon they may not have a simp in the White House. What a great idea it was to attack Iran without any contingency plan.

 

[Vestal]

Per CNN: Iran has stopped Oil Tanker traffic through the Strait.

edit: In response to attacks on Lebanon.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I suppose that I see it slightly differently. I do totally agree with your take and understand it but I also see it this way.

Yesterday there was the possibility that we would destroy the electrical infrastructure for millions of people, putting them in the dark for a decade or more. Today that possibility is very unlikely and it looks like tensions are cooling. This is very good for total human suffering in the world.

I think that it might not be truly appreciated how terrible having no electricity is.

We are so hyper aware of the small political nuances of our leaders at home but that isn't really important. I agree that political posturing is such human-slop. It's insane and crazy and always has been. It's silly. Politics itself is just a method of societal control. Our real job our only job is to guide the ship to reduce human suffering and improve quality of life as we progress. In that job, yesterday was a very good day. Could it have been better? Sure.

Tensions are not cooling but from the looks of it, I think it is becoming messier than before with all the strikes happening left and right, branches of IRGC having no idea what is happening and Gulf countries bombing Iran, while Lebanon is being bombed by Israel, while IRGC is saying that ceasefire should include Lebanon and others deny that. Hilarious mess.

Would be hilarious is that it will lead to "human shields" to disperse in Iran and then they will bomb everything as no people would be there.

Per CNN: Iran has stopped Oil Tanker traffic through the Strait.

edit: In response to attacks on Lebanon.

IRGCNN. CNN has been a huge mouthpiece for Iran this war. Same as with BBC and Hamas.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hezbollah joined in, why should Israel not retaliate?

God, terrorist simps are the worst kind of people. Go back to Ree where you belong.

What?

What are you actually talking about, me, a terrorist sympathiser, hahaha. Ignored, you weirdo!

 

[Tams]

For many years most of the UK's migration used to be from Europe, a continent you'd have shared a historic cultural tie to. But then something happened in 2016 and finished in 2021 that caused EU migration to fall away, and that labor shortfall to be replaced with migration from other countries instead.
Wonder what that was all about.

This is delusional.

Europeans for the most part were not cleaning up granny, working at McDonalds or taking up doctor's places.

And honestly, it's still not that hard for Europeans to move to the UK. The cold, hard truth is that the UK has become poorer and many of the poorer (Eastern) European countries have become richer.

It's no longer worthwhile for a Pole to clean toilets or be a builder in the UK when they can live a nicer life in Poland now. That's partly due to improved salaries there, but also because Poland is not turning into a 'global' DEI show.

 

[adamsapple]

What?

What are you actually talking about, how dare you call me a terrorist sympathiser. Ignored, you weirdo!

He keeps calling everyone in favor of ceasefire a terrorist sympathizer, I don't think he knows what it means.

-

In case anyone was wondering why the attacks on Lebanon have increased in frequency today, this is the reason:

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-war-2026-trump-deadline-latest-news/card/exclusive-israel-was-informed-late-about-cease-fire-deal-and-wasn-t-happy-s18QUNCt1s4fL60Rnn03

 

[Vestal]

IRGCNN. CNN has been a huge mouthpiece for Iran this war. Same as with BBC and Hamas.

Do you expect them not to report on what is being found online written by the Iranian representatives regarding the Strait?

 

[DenchDeckard]

He keeps calling everyone in favor of ceasefire a terrorist sympathizer, I don't think he knows what it means.

Oh, hahaha. what an odd person.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Do you expect them not to report on what is being found online written by the Iranian representatives regarding the Strait?

The problem is that CNN treats it as an absolute truth.

 

[Gp1]

50 min ago
Israel has halted strikes on Iran but will continue attacks on Hezbollah in Lebanon

Bness as usual

Russia is sending upgraded drones used in the Ukraine war to Iran, officials say

U.S. and European officials have told The Associated Press that Russia is sending a shipment of drones to Iran including upgraded versions of the drone technology that Tehran originally supplied to Moscow after its invasion of Ukraine.

apnews.com

At the same time, this week was the first week on the Ukrainian war that Ukraine launched more missiles at Russia than Russia at Ukraine.