Well, I still think there are people where monogamy is just natural to them and they benefit greatly to them. But it isn't everyone, and the way society functions right now it funnels everyone into an extreme either or situation. Human sexuality and relationships are far, far more nuanced than we allow them to be, and by funneling everyone into the same box, we're really cutting out a lot of trust, communication and options that should really exist. We're creating cheaters in some spots where there may not need to be any. I'm not saying we should blame society for cheaters at all. If you're being dishonest it really is only on you, but we as a society really aren't helping things
Cheating on your SO
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Well, I still think there are people where monogamy is just natural to them and they benefit greatly to them. But it isn't everyone, and the way society functions right now it funnels everyone into an extreme either or situation. Human sexuality and relationships are far, far more nuanced than we allow them to be, and by funneling everyone into the same box, we're really cutting out a lot of trust, communication and options that should really exist. We're creating cheaters in some spots where there may not need to be any. I'm not saying we should blame society for cheaters at all. If you're being dishonest it really is only on you, but we as a society really aren't helping things
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
That should be established going into the relationship. It's not an "extra" like spicy ketchup at Whataburger.
The other way around... it's that it's not that special. Your long term partner/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/lover and you have a relationship that's more than just screwing, so there's no worry that simply screwing someone else is going to really interfere with that relationship.
It's not natural for you, and that's fine. What may not be natural for you may be natural for others.
I am -- as far as I can tell -- at least a serial mongamist, if not an absolute one (that's difficult to say with any certainty, as I'd have to be in a relationship for 20 years to find out). I genuinely do not have interest in one night stands, I strongly prefer sex after 4-5 months of dating to the "excitement" of the first few times, and become so deeply involved with my girlfriends that I very rarely look at other women.
I am aware that not all guys are like this. I know, for example, that many men are particularly interested in sex with fresh new partners, when someone's body is new and unexplored to them. More broadly, I know that some people like having large groups of friends, rather than small groups of very close ones, as I do. All of that is fine. My point isn't to suggest that everyone has to be like me, just to make sure you realize that not everyone is like you.
I'll make two other arguments here as well. First, it would be a shame if we moved from one absurd absolute (all people should be in monogamous relationships) and swung immediately all the way to the other extreme (monogamy is not natural for anyone and no one should do it). Second, building on that point, given the huge breadth of variety in human sexuality (heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, transexuality, and a variety of others), it seems very unlikely to me that our romantic temperaments would be absolutely uniform.
I would guess, instead, that some people do best with a huge variety of partners on a rapid basis; others might do best with 1 "main" partner and a secondary and tertiary partner as well; still others might be operate best in a series of short, 2-3 year relationships; lastly, some might truly be monogamists who operate best with a single partner for decades upon decades. Again, given the huge variability in virtually all other aspects of human sexuality, it seems very unlikely that all of us conform to a specific, pre-determined preference for a huge numbers of partners. As far as I can tell, I honestly and genuinely don't fit that description, but I certainly accept that it may describe others, and that's fine.
Freakinchair
Member
buzzkill
The main problem with "monogamous" relationships is a lack of honesty. Too often people just get trolled into what some stupid ass Puritanical assholic hypocritical society expects from them, ignore their own desires (rather than express them honestly) and then get mad when they find out their partner cheats. It would be much better if everyone were just honest.
I think Chris Rock hit the nail on the head, monogamy is the product of male insecurity. Men have always been threatened by female sexuality.
I think Chris Rock hit the nail on the head, monogamy is the product of male insecurity. Men have always been threatened by female sexuality.
LOL it's amazing.
diamondstar
Member
A beer and convo would be cool. You seem to give pretty sound advice. Especially without sounding condescending.
It's clear that I have a lot of stuff to think about and consider. I have been strong this whole time and if I did have a moment of weakness I feel I could still hold my head high considering the situation. Gaf may hate me for life but you can't please everyone.
People handle situations differently that is what makes us unique. Maybe some of you can be the white knight and the thought of sexing another woman disgusts you. Well while the thought of another women never disgusted me, in the past I never entertained actually doing it. These days I do. And maybe the white knights in this thread truly have found their soul mates. Maybe I haven't when I previously thought I did. I think my perception of my relationship may have been clouded by my own morals of being a good man.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Well.. I think most people saying "monogamy isn't natural" are saying that based on a rhetorical "state of being natural" a human could be in.
Anyone actually raised in "human civilization" is being affected too much by said civilization to be deemed "acting naturally."
It doesn't discount what you said, but it does discount the idea that all of your wants, desires, how you act, how you feel, etc. are actually "natural." We can only really theorize; so you'd have to theorize what natural instinct leads you to be monogamous to actually argue that it's some natural state.
And acting "unnaturally" isn't always good for us would be the counter to your not very weighty point about "natural isn't always good."
It is for you.
Here, let me put it this way: if my current girlfriend felt that she loved me, wanted to stay with me, and considered me her primary love -- but also felt that she needed secondary sexual relationships on the side -- that would be fine. But I would not want to do the same.I would remain monogamous to her, because that's what I prefer, personally. I love her, and what she wants is her business. My business is loving her.
Nvidiot said:
Of course, this is possible, but it's also worth pointing out that the same could be said for you; that your preferences are being affected by your immediate surroundings and upbringing.
Most importantly, we can never reach any conclusion if we invoke this card too consistently. It can rapidly become the "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Person A: No one naturally prefers to have sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
Person B: I do. I can tell that's what I prefer.
Person A: No, you are simply led astray by your upbringing in some fashion. That isn't your true, natural preference. Therefore, no one naturally prefers to have sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
Devolution
Member
I'm not really sure anyone can prove that polyamory is more natural than monogamy.
I meant it's not natural in the sense that whether or not one practices monogamy, they will always fancy or think about someone else other than their partner sexually, whether they act on it or not, hence monogamy not being natural. To add to that, they say 90+% of men look at porn, why the hell aren't we all just satisfied with porn pics and videos of our partners if monogamy is natural?
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Of course not. We discuss it, we suggest logic.
I tried discussing it with you earlier after you made a blanket statement sans logic but you ignored the post.
Exactly what I just edited in. You could, in fact, invoke Nvidiot's argument for any stated preference of any kind.
Do you prefer monogamy? Polygamy? Polyamory? Homosexuality? Are you asexual? People can (and have) claimed that all of these are "unnatural" preferences which are only a biproduct of someone's upbringing or surroundings.
Given the prevalance of all of these, it seems more likely that there is simply a very large variety of sexual preferences in the world, and that some people "naturally" fit all of these descriptions.
I'm going to repeat this again for emphasis, because it's important people recognize that people like me exist: if my girlfriend wanted an open relationship but felt she still deeply loved me and wanted to stay with me, I would accept that, but I would not personally seek out other partners. It doesn't interest me. Loving her is my business. Her choices in love are her business. I can only say that as far as I can tell, my preferences in romance do not stem from insecurities and are among the most inherent parts of my fiber. I am not saying everyone needs to be like me.
Devolution
Member
What logic? I don't think one is more natural than the other and I've yet to see arguments that convince me it's not something chosen on an individual level. Basically Opiate can take the mantle on this one since he's essentially saying what I am in much greater detail.
Once again, I do not do this. I don't really look around when I'm deeply in love (which I have been on 3 occasssions) and very rarely think of other women. I do view pornography when my girlfriend is gone for long stretches for obvious purposes.
If your attitudes are different, that's fine. I'm not judging. I am asking you kindly to not assume that your preferences represent everyone else's.
I'd also like to point out, in case this was going to come up, that I am an atheist and grew up in a family of atheists. Again, as far as I can tell, my personal preferences are not fabricated by my immediate surroundings and are simply my innate predilictions.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Of course. We can also use logic to back up a claim.
You have claimed you are naturally monogamous without providing much speculation on why, from a natural instinctive perspective you are monogamous..
The flip-side isn't hard to argue whatsoever. We are naturally tuned to find numerous mates sexually attractive, and this attraction doesn't "naturally" end when we find a mate.
I think it would be interesting to actually argue "why" someone is naturally monogamous.. and I provided some thoughts on that earlier in the thread.
I don't find simply claiming you are very interesting.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
I'm asking you that. You appear to have none.
Not interesting.
This was my post in response to your blanket logic-less claim that monogamy and polygamy or both equally "natural"
I'm personally 100% convinced that polygamy is natural.. obviously I can't prove it but it's what I believe... based on fairly simple logic: are instincts appear to be to breed with far more than one "mate." There is no built in switch that is turned off when we find one mate that ends our attraction and desire for other mates.. hence why I believe it is entirely natural to have more than one sexual partner.
I think humans MAY have some conflicting natural instincts that make monogamy also natural, but I'm not convinced of that, because they are tied into far more complex emotions that I believe are likely do to societal pressures, and not natural instincts. Although we could have a natural instinct of wanting to "own" are partners.. that is SORT OF like saying monogamy is natural, but not entirely.
Deified Data
Banned
Don't know why OP cares so much.
Fact is, cheating is never acceptable. No matter how rotten relations have become, there's no excuse not to officially break things off before you start looking for something else. It's that "plan B" mindset that really annoys me.
Fact is, cheating is never acceptable. No matter how rotten relations have become, there's no excuse not to officially break things off before you start looking for something else. It's that "plan B" mindset that really annoys me.
There are two arguments against your claim. First, there are lots of innate sexual preferences which do not have obvious or inherent sexual advantage; for example, homosexuality is literally incapable of producing any offspring at all, and yet most of us here readily recognize that it is genetically possible to be homosexual. In fact, lots and lots of people are genetically predisposed to homosexuality.
By comparison, monogamy is easy to justify; it can produce kids, so it already has homosexuality beat right out. This is called the hyperadaptationalist fallacy
Secondly, and most importantly, I can indeed imagine an evolutionary justification for monogamy; better nurtured offspring. This is not just a modern, human observation (where it is empirically true that having two parents around instead of one produces significantly better results for a child), but also one with historical evidence in other species -- this is precisely why most birds are monogamous, because having two parents around when the young are vulnerable is extremely useful.
Some animals "solve" this problem by hiding their sexual dalliances, but not all -- many species are honestly, genuinely monogamous.
Now, there are also advantages to polyamory, as you have stated. There are just also downsides, and no obvious, uniformly "correct" answer to evolutionary prosperity. This essentially renders my original argument moot -- I shouldn't even have to provide a justification for why evolution would permit monogamy, but I did anyway.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Thanks for editing out the "this is silly".. but I caught it before the edit.. so not going to put the effort into replying right now as you clearly intended to insult me at first, and don't believe you deserve much of a response because of it.
You responded with flippancy to Devolution's arguments, with equally flimsy arguments of your own. Your silliness does seem apparent; you're either being deliberately obtuse or disregarding her logic as invalid for reasons you aren't specifying. I wanted to avoid any past transgression, but apparently you don't hold the same desire.
If you'd like to submit the argument, that is fine.
ok, but what I'm saying is, when you're in a relationship and/or in love, you haven't seen another woman in public and did that Chris Tucker "daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn" thing in your head? You view porn for obvious reasons, but why is it women different than your girlfriend? If you had to resort to porn, would you be satisfied viewing *only* videos that star your girlfriend perpetually?
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
She didn't present an argument
Where did she present any logic?
My reply to her wasn't flippant, it was a fact. She made blanket statements, didn't respond to me asking her about them.. and then when I asked her a second time for elaboration, she continued to not provide any.
It's not interesting whatsoever so I said it wasn't interesting.
I find Devolution to be generally rude either way, so it's what she deserves. And you continue with the "silly" crap.. so.. good day to you.
Deified Data
Banned
I'm naturally promiscuous with a personal preference for monogomy. Where does individual choice feature into this argument?
Extremely rarely. Essentially no, I do not do this. Let me repeat that one more time: I do not do this.
I have no idea. My guess is no, but I haven't had any real way to put this to the test.
Yes she did.
Yes she did. She argued, essentially, what I have argued; that it seems unlikely that our preferences are all exactly alike, given the huge breadth of variability of human sexuality. Some people likely are "naturally" polyamorous, but others likely aren't. She did not phrase it that way, but that is what I gleaned from her posts, and why I responded to one of her posts with the phrase "exactly." I believe this position is logical.
You seem to be making blanket statements, not the other way around, from my perspective. She's saying that people likely have different preferences and inherent needs; you're the one arguing that everyone is naturally polyamorous and that no one is "naturally" monogamous.
Given your rudeness here (she "deserves" to be dismissed), a light response like "this is silly" from me seems like a pat on the back. I do deliberately remove any emotion from my posts, but it doesn't seem you return the favor.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
That is not an argument, it's a statement. WHY do they have different needs, where do these needs stem from naturally, how does it relate to the argument being presented etc. That's a logical argument. "Various sexual preferences exist" isn't an argument... at best it's a huge leap in logic trying to equate the idea that varying sexual preferences would also relate to varying natural states of monogamy or polygamy.
No I'm not. I haven't said once that one is natural and the other isn't. Devolution did, and provided no logic to argue WHY.
I haven't argued that or said that at all.. and to state that people have different preferences isn't an argument...
Have a good day Opiate.
Steve Youngblood
Member
The "what's natural" discussion in general seemed to me like a needless diversion. The motivation seems to be reactionary -- people don't like being pressured to conform -- and that informs the presentation of the argument.
All in all, though, the point is valid: people would be better served to try and be more self-aware of what they really want going into a relationship. That's not easy, mind you, as desires change over time. But I agree that a lot of times the problem stems from people who just go with the flow, doing what's expected ("guess it's time to bite the bullet and propose"), instead of what they really want.
However, it's important to realize that though people should consider other possibilities, it's also silly to act like there's no reason to enter into committed relationships, or start families. I think a lot of disagreements just stem not only from people not realizing that everyone is different, but also not realizing that many people are at different phases of their lives.
All in all, I'm not sure there's really a strong central point to this post, so I'll just stop here.
All in all, though, the point is valid: people would be better served to try and be more self-aware of what they really want going into a relationship. That's not easy, mind you, as desires change over time. But I agree that a lot of times the problem stems from people who just go with the flow, doing what's expected ("guess it's time to bite the bullet and propose"), instead of what they really want.
However, it's important to realize that though people should consider other possibilities, it's also silly to act like there's no reason to enter into committed relationships, or start families. I think a lot of disagreements just stem not only from people not realizing that everyone is different, but also not realizing that many people are at different phases of their lives.
All in all, I'm not sure there's really a strong central point to this post, so I'll just stop here.
You can't use the evidence that people are sexually attracted to others to prove that they're not naturally monogamous. Whether you're monogamous or polyamorous or somewhere fluidly in between the two has a lot of factors. It's not just sexual attraction to others. Choosing your mate or mates or what have you is a sort of crossroads of a lot of differing factors and preferences. One of which is sexual attraction to others, sure, and we all have at least a little bit of that in us. But the other crossroad is just how you feel and work in relationships in general. Not everyone has or needs the same amount of friends, for example. Some people work best with one best friend. Others work best with many really great friends. Others are in between. You can't say one style is more natural than another.
Again, it's as I said, sexuality and relationships are incredibly nuanced and fluid things. Not everyone can fit into one specific box, and where people fit can change at different times in their lives.
Again, it's as I said, sexuality and relationships are incredibly nuanced and fluid things. Not everyone can fit into one specific box, and where people fit can change at different times in their lives.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
And that's the point of discussing the "is it natural" aspect in the first place.
I don't think it's important to come to some conclusion about it.. but I find it interesting, and telling, to DISCUSS the idea with people.
And I do believe a lot of people are in denial concerning the topic. We'll never come to any real conclusion or have any "proof".. and the idea of what is and isn't "natural" is muddied anyways. I do find it important to DISCUSS though, as I think it's revealing. I'll just leave it at that.
GhostRidah
Member
I understand why people do it but its bullshit. Whenever I feel the relationship is over or I need to be with someone else, I just tell them it is over, sure its hard but its better than prolonging the situation and making it worse for both of us.
You as well. If you'd ever like to discuss my actual arguments, please let me know. And I do not mean that facetiously; I'd be happy to discuss them.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
I probably will.. wrapping up something for work then I'm stuck sitting here for 45 minutes
That sort of de-railed into nothingness.. but we can pick it back up.
fabricated backlash
Member
So, just got back from an "emergency" breakfast with my best friend... the poor guy just found that that his wife has been cheating on him for 3 years... i was best man on their wedding 5 years ago.
What the hell prompts someone to cheat on their significant other? from where i´m standing, i´m seeing this happen more and more in society, a general lack of moral fiber, couples are breaking up left and right due to cheating, promiscuity is rampant and i feel like society as a whole is going to shit.
Maybe i´m just overreacting, but i would like to read other people´s thoughts on this. Do people just have less patience, these days, to work out their relationship issues or are the relationship themselves more and more messed up?
P.S Sorry for rant, office full of women is not the best place to let off some steam, so gaf is the next best thing.
Your perception is off. This isn't happening more often, it's the same as allways. The only thing that really changed is that people won't hold on to a marriage at all costs.
I'm not condoning cheating on a partner, especially not for so long. It's cruel, and unfair. She should've told him.
I think we're taking the whole "monogamy isn't natural thing" way too far. You can't just make it your banner for your promiscuity-parade. I'm not saying that anyone saying that is using it in that banner, but way too often do people play the (previously discussed) entitlement card, and tag-team that with "but it's not natural to only be with one person". If it's not natural for you to be with just one person, if that person ever is in a position to call you a cheater, or say you've cheated, you've done them wrong, and horribly much so.
If monogamy isn't natural, why do we get so hurt when we're cheated on? We can't just make sweeping arguments like that and not look at the evolutionary context. It's a often-discussed point that women are more hurt by their significant other falling for another girl than they would be for a one-night stand. This makes ample sense in an evolutionary context, where women can be said to need a man to look out for them and their offspring, so they're more interested in their man being emotionally faithful than where they put their dicks - so long as the man is still mainly interested in coming home and caring for their child.
Likewise, men are more prone to be angry by one-night stands than emotional unfaithfulness, because the latter would mean they're "off the hook" in simple terms, whereas the first will mean they cannot be certain if the child they have together is rightfully his. And evolutionary, it's not a bonus to take care of someone else's genetic material.
The "it's not natural" is impossible to place. The evolution of language is likely much fresher than the evolution of these feelings. One thing is clear as day: if it wasn't natural to be somewhat monogamous, whatever that would imply, it would be the biggest evolutionary burden to be heart-broken and risk death due to being incapacitated due to emotional stress. Even Takatsubo cardiomyopathy, or broken heart syndrome, would be long gone if we haven't evolutionary depended on others and put our trust in others.
Evolution has made us hurt badly by being cheated on, because pain is nature's way of keeping us from doing it again. We most certainly have always been a couple-based society. I could go on detailing what way this would work back then, but saying we're polygamous isn't really true. We've had some harem-based cultures during the later years, but that's probably just due to power-hungry men in strange settings.
"It's natural" doesn't mean squat, though. Too many cheat on the ones they're in a relationship with, then try to play it off. It's still a horrible thing to do. If you are of the persuasion that you need to bang other girls, fantastic! But be honest with the one you're with, and really make sure you're not hurting that person at the same time. Don't placate someone that wants to be monogamous with you just because you think it's a nice feeling, but you still need to bang others. It's fucked up, regardless of what's "natural".
Find someone that's like you, and that you can be with. You don't hurt others just because you think it's natural to do so. Don't cheat on people for three years no matter what your forefathers did. It's fucked up. So naturalness has shit to say in this.
If monogamy isn't natural, why do we get so hurt when we're cheated on? We can't just make sweeping arguments like that and not look at the evolutionary context. It's a often-discussed point that women are more hurt by their significant other falling for another girl than they would be for a one-night stand. This makes ample sense in an evolutionary context, where women can be said to need a man to look out for them and their offspring, so they're more interested in their man being emotionally faithful than where they put their dicks - so long as the man is still mainly interested in coming home and caring for their child.
Likewise, men are more prone to be angry by one-night stands than emotional unfaithfulness, because the latter would mean they're "off the hook" in simple terms, whereas the first will mean they cannot be certain if the child they have together is rightfully his. And evolutionary, it's not a bonus to take care of someone else's genetic material.
The "it's not natural" is impossible to place. The evolution of language is likely much fresher than the evolution of these feelings. One thing is clear as day: if it wasn't natural to be somewhat monogamous, whatever that would imply, it would be the biggest evolutionary burden to be heart-broken and risk death due to being incapacitated due to emotional stress. Even Takatsubo cardiomyopathy, or broken heart syndrome, would be long gone if we haven't evolutionary depended on others and put our trust in others.
Evolution has made us hurt badly by being cheated on, because pain is nature's way of keeping us from doing it again. We most certainly have always been a couple-based society. I could go on detailing what way this would work back then, but saying we're polygamous isn't really true. We've had some harem-based cultures during the later years, but that's probably just due to power-hungry men in strange settings.
"It's natural" doesn't mean squat, though. Too many cheat on the ones they're in a relationship with, then try to play it off. It's still a horrible thing to do. If you are of the persuasion that you need to bang other girls, fantastic! But be honest with the one you're with, and really make sure you're not hurting that person at the same time. Don't placate someone that wants to be monogamous with you just because you think it's a nice feeling, but you still need to bang others. It's fucked up, regardless of what's "natural".
Find someone that's like you, and that you can be with. You don't hurt others just because you think it's natural to do so. Don't cheat on people for three years no matter what your forefathers did. It's fucked up. So naturalness has shit to say in this.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Is entering into a verbally agreed upon "contract" of sorts natural in the first place?
Part of what I've been trying to get at is pointing out that most of what we do isn't really "natural" in the sense that our actions are largely influenced by society, and not instincts. It becomes very difficult to identify what is and isn't natural; I guess a better way to look at it is "what are our natural instincts, and how do they influence our decisions, and how do they potentially conflict with societies defined 'norms' or what is 'right' vs. 'wrong."
I don't think anyone in this thread has tried to justify cheating. They've attempted to explain it, and there's a side-discussion of sorts on how we should or shouldn't define relationships due to these definitions potentially conflicting with our natural urges in a way that doesn't make sense.
The "it's natural" has meaning without it having to be a "justification" for cheating. If people cheat often because they are attempting to fulfill a natural desire, then that could call into question the promise of monogamy in the first place.
Hence the discussion.. if anyone has actually tried to justify "cheating" with that logic, I missed it. They were simply providing a reason, not a justification.
I'll loop back to my first quote:
I think you made some good points after this as to some natural influences people feel.. and they do certainly suggest a potential for the natural desire at the very least, for your partner to be monogamous.
But lots of humans have also demonstrated the ability to not be hurt by polygamy.
And in fact, many are capable of being not hurt by polygamy.. but could still be hurt by being "cheated on."
My girlfriend wants me to have sex with other women.. I'm in a somewhat "open relationship".. yet she'd still be devastated if I hid a sexual relationship from her, AKA if I cheated on her.
The "why" is because I would be breaking her trust. And I think that ties into our most basic survival instincts of being able to depend on each other for survival.. not necessarily anything based on sexual desires or monogamy/polygamy.
Sanky Panky
Banned
I truly believe that our biological mechanisms for attraction and sex are naturally not tailored to prefer monogamy. It is not genetically ingrained. One can claim they are "naturally" monogamous, but it comes down to a mental process where you reason why your current partner is better than the alternative, not because your penis goes into hybernation when you enter a relationship.
Society benefited from monogamy when we went from hunters/gatherers to farmers, because a good partner is going to help run the household. If we were still hunters, the institution of marriage would not be the same. In fact, many still want to be hunters.
edit: as for the "hurting because we get cheated on" it has NOTHING to do with reproduction or sexual behavior, but all to do with self-esteem. If we get cheated on, we think we may not be good enough. If we were lied to, we'll look like fools and that makes us feel bad. If somebody else steals something that is ours, we'll feel like we didn't do enough to protect it. The feelings after being cheated on are not mechanisms of monogamy.
Society benefited from monogamy when we went from hunters/gatherers to farmers, because a good partner is going to help run the household. If we were still hunters, the institution of marriage would not be the same. In fact, many still want to be hunters.
edit: as for the "hurting because we get cheated on" it has NOTHING to do with reproduction or sexual behavior, but all to do with self-esteem. If we get cheated on, we think we may not be good enough. If we were lied to, we'll look like fools and that makes us feel bad. If somebody else steals something that is ours, we'll feel like we didn't do enough to protect it. The feelings after being cheated on are not mechanisms of monogamy.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I'll tell you how bad cheating is now. In the past, a person would cheat and they'd at least have the common decency to try to keep it secret. Maybe they felt guilty, maybe they wanted to spare the person that they cheated on, etc. Nowadays people are fucking brazen about. They'll not only not cover their tracks, but they'll leave fucking bread crumbs behind as well.
OJdaKiller
Member
Why people cheat. Great question. I guess I always figured if you were that unhappy with your partner, why not just breakup and move on the right way instead of leading someone on. Though to address the topic.
I'd say it's a symptom of an ever increasing narcissistic, entitled, and disconnected culture. People are fed the message they are overly important and their happiness matters most. People stay "in touch" with their "friends" on Facebook, but barely interact or even know their neighbors. Both men and women and fed the line to "follow your dreams" and "never settle." For a disconnected and superficial society it becomes more and more difficult to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Road rage is a great example of some of these attitudes manifesting themselves in action. "No one can disrespect me. I'm unstoppable. How dare they!"
The reality is that people are imperfect and relationships take work. The fantasy is that there is a person out there that can be everything you need them to be/the relationship will be easy, and if you can't find that, keep searching no matter who you hurt because you only live once and your happiness is of the utmost importance.
I'd say it's a symptom of an ever increasing narcissistic, entitled, and disconnected culture. People are fed the message they are overly important and their happiness matters most. People stay "in touch" with their "friends" on Facebook, but barely interact or even know their neighbors. Both men and women and fed the line to "follow your dreams" and "never settle." For a disconnected and superficial society it becomes more and more difficult to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Road rage is a great example of some of these attitudes manifesting themselves in action. "No one can disrespect me. I'm unstoppable. How dare they!"
The reality is that people are imperfect and relationships take work. The fantasy is that there is a person out there that can be everything you need them to be/the relationship will be easy, and if you can't find that, keep searching no matter who you hurt because you only live once and your happiness is of the utmost importance.
Psychotext
Member
Yeah, I'm seeing a hell of a lot of that in this thread, and it's completely missing the point. Hell, if you're going to say what's apparent in nature in not then I'm sure rape is quite natural as well as beating any potential rivals to death... except part of living in human society is that we just don't do things like that. It's not acceptable.
Cheating is obviously no-where near as extreme, but you're still hurting someone without good reason. If you want to have sex with someone else, that's fine, but either get your partner's permission or split up first, it's really not complicated.
ThisWreckage
Banned
People are constantly fucking bored. Constantly. If you don't believe me start paying attention to the generation of kids that are currently around the age of 16 years or so. If a person can't even sit through a movie without constantly text messaging the can you imagine that person lasting five years into a marriage? Hell no. They're going to be fucking bored right after the wedding kiss.
I'm the same as Opiate in this regard. When I have an emotional connection to someone, I don't have any attraction for anyone else. It's a bitch when you have to move on.
Devolution
Member
This is how I feel. I also feel that one can be polyamorous and monogamous at different times in their life too. I don't think we really help ourselves in declaring anything to be "natural" and what's natural for you isn't natural for me. I think what's natural is finding your niche in the broad spectrum that is human sexuality but so many people want to fight it rather than embrace it, including society.
Wha.. how is this possible? How long have you been together?
Grinchy
Banned
So true, can't even finish a conversation with people anymore because they're constantly fiddling around with their phones and shit. It's extremely sad and annoying.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
I dont know alot about her personal issues. All I know is during an argument she mentioned that she was molested as a kid. I didnt try to pry more. Is there still love? I dont know if there is love on her part. I think she is oblivious to my feelings. We really arent affectionate to each other. Besides a kiss goodbye or hello, theres nothing really there. Our lease is up at the end of June and I cant think of living with her anymore. Besides our who relationship issues, shes also a slob, bathes an average of once a week, pays virtually no bills, and frankly doesnt give a shit about anyone outside herself. We were looking for a new apartment to move to and she had the audacity to ask me how much more I was more willing to pay. She doesnt believe in saving either, so she never has any money. She quit a great job to take a 2 dollar/hour pay cut because she didnt want to talk to people on the phone.
mysticwhip
Banned
I'm pretty selfish in terms of relationships and sex so yea I've cheated, I know it's bad but honestly can't really care or I haven't been in a relationship strong enough to care.
Always safe though.
Always safe though.
- Status