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[HP_Wuvcraft]

You know, it just occurred to me:

Vickers is the hardass woman that just needs to get laid.

I've been trying to get Janek to fit the Ferris Bueller archetype, but it's not working.

 

[maharg]

Well the 2000 year link cuts off Islam or any other post-Christian religions. And the crucifixion mural definitely seems to postulate Christianity as the most important one.

It's not a huge deal, but I do prefer it when scifi is neutral towards religion.

I don't think SF should be neutral towards anything. That just seems silly. The advantage of SF is its ability to be irreverent in a non-threatening way (because the world in the book/movie is *not* ours).

That said, I don't think the movie is trying to present Christianity as more important. It picked an event and ran with it. I find the concept equally irreverent to all religions, and if it's ever made explicit that Jesus was an Engineer in a sequel you'll see how much Christians appreciate it making Christianity 'important' (hint: probably not a lot at all).

 

[daviyoung]

Ok sure, it's not like the movie is full of christian symbolism and nods towards what happened 2000 years ago. Ridley just made that shit up for a random interview. Damn he should find confidence while he's still young.

The Christian symbolism is mixed with symbolism from other religions and philosophies, from conspiracies and ideas and thrown at a wall. I was fine with that. I'm not fine with the declaration that it's stoicly Christian because it's an absolute mess of an idea that was poorly thought-out, poorly realised and poorly executed. Frustrating.

 

[Dascu]

I don't think SF should be neutral towards anything. That just seems silly. The advantage of SF is its ability to be irreverent in a non-threatening way (because the world in the book/movie is *not* ours).

True, true. Like I said, it's not a huge deal. I just roll my eyes at it and I'm generally annoyed when movies try to act as if one religion is more valid than another. I prefer it when films don't mention it, or just treat it as contemporary films do. Like it taking place on Christmas or whatnot. I don't mind that.

It's picking Jesus' death as a crucial point in this alien civilization's motivations that annoys the atheist-humanist in me.

 

[duckroll]

True, true. Like I said, it's not a huge deal. I just roll my eyes at it and I'm generally annoyed when movies try to act as if one religion is more valid than another. I prefer it when films don't mention it, or just treat it as contemporary films do. Like it taking place on Christmas or whatnot. I don't mind that.

It's picking Jesus' death as a crucial point in this alien civilization's motivations that annoys the atheist-humanist in me.

Sounds like a personal problem you have to deal with. Fiction isn't real, as long as a story is interesting, it can use whatever tools which work best for the narrative.

 

[Dascu]

I kind of regret bringing this entire point up now. I don't mean to come across as a whiny atheist who cringes each time religion is featured in a film. I love horror movies and they're filled with demons and Satan and crucifixes and holy water.

But in a semi-realistic scifi film that tries to ask "deep questions" about the meaning and origin of life, and linking this Jesus? Eh, sorry folks. :rolleyes

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

But in a semi-realistic scifi film that tries to ask "deep questions" about the meaning and origin of life, and linking this Jesus? Eh, sorry folks. :rolleyes

I'm an atheist, and I fucking loved the Jesus angle.

 

[duckroll]

I kind of regret bringing this entire point up now. I don't mean to come across as a whiny atheist who cringes each time religion is featured in a film. I love horror movies and they're filled with demons and Satan and crucifixes and holy water.

But in a semi-realistic scifi film that tries to ask "deep questions" about the meaning and origin of life, and linking this Jesus? Eh, sorry folks. :rolleyes

But there is nothing semi-realistic or deep about Prometheus. It's just LOST in space.

 

[Dascu]

I'm an atheist, and I fucking loved the Jesus angle.

Well then I hope the sequel goes all-out pulp with a space pope and everything.

 

[TUROK]

I'm an atheist, and I fucking loved the Jesus angle.

Likewise.

If this movie was actually coherent, it would have been amazing. Shame.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

But there is nothing semi-realistic or deep about Prometheus. It's just LOST in space.

 

[Keylime]

Yeah I actually think most of the "omg they are so dumb" things people complain about aren't that bad, but those guys getting lost just makes no fucking sense.

The guy was high.

 

[Erigu]

The guy was high.

Yes, and that, too, was terribly dumb.
Besides, was he high already when he was trying to get back to the ship?
And what about the other guy, anyway? It's not like he was alone.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

The guy was high.

I rewatched Prometheus last night and I now nickname Geologist and Biologist friends Shaggy and Scooby.

 

[daviyoung]

Yes, and that, too, was terribly dumb.
Besides, was he high already when he was trying to get back to the ship?
And what about the other guy, anyway? It's not like he was alone.

They kind of cover it by showing him getting all panicky, so the weed obviously takes the edge off the situation and his eventual panic attack.

Whether the chemicals from the pot had anything to do with the course of his mutation is completely unexplained.

The other dude was dead. They found his body when Hardy2 was coming down with something in the pyramid. They didn't find Fifield's body.

 

[Keylime]

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that Fifield was high and wasn't able to figure out where to go, and Bio-Boy was just his lackey. He was trying to be friends with him back on the ship...doesn't seem so crazy that he'd trust him more than he should to get on his good side.

Fifield getting high was stupid...but he did it...and I think that at least explains HIS behavior. Bio-Boy was just guilty of being forever alone and wanting a friend.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that Fifield was high and wasn't able to figure out where to go, and Bio-Boy was just his lackey. He was trying to be friends with him back on the ship...doesn't seem so crazy that he'd trust him more than he should to get on his good side.

Fifield getting high was stupid...but he did it...and I think that at least explains HIS behavior. Bio-Boy was just guilty of being forever alone and wanting a friend.

Except that Fifield was also high when he led them to the door using the pups. He was guiding the whole team. For him not to know how to get back out considering he has a feed of the pups' progress is fucking retarded. The shit is second nature to him because it's what he does. Getting high is just adding stupid upon stupid to these scientists exploring never before seen alien ruins.

I mean, this is going to be so fucking AWESOME. But...how awesome would it be if I did it HIGH? *bubble bubble*

 

[JB1981]

I don't think SF should be neutral towards anything. That just seems silly. The advantage of SF is its ability to be irreverent in a non-threatening way (because the world in the book/movie is *not* ours).

That said, I don't think the movie is trying to present Christianity as more important. It picked an event and ran with it. I find the concept equally irreverent to all religions, and if it's ever made explicit that Jesus was an Engineer in a sequel you'll see how much Christians appreciate it making Christianity 'important' (hint: probably not a lot at all).

I was thinking rather than Jesus being an Engineer, perhaps the Engineers changed their minds about us because we stopped worshipping them and started worshipping another god (Christ). This is why they saw fit to wipe us out.

 

[Keylime]

Except that Fifield was also high when he led them to the door using the pups. He was guiding the whole team. For him not to know how to get back out considering he has a feed of the pups' progress is fucking retarded. The shit is second nature to him because it's what he does. Getting high is just adding stupid upon stupid to these scientists exploring never before seen alien ruins.

I'll just say that we don't know when he started getting high (which puts my own theory at risk).

It's not a great plot device by any means, but it's there!

 

[duckroll]

I rewatched Prometheus last night and I now nickname Geologist and Biologist friends Shaggy and Scooby.

Who's Scrappy?

Spoiler

The alien worm!

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I'll just say that we don't know when he started getting high (which puts my own theory at risk).

It's not a great plot device by any means, but it's there!

It's these fan theories to explain away mistakes that highlight exactly the reason I hate shitty writing like this.

The whole 'UNLESS!!!' based on the most far-reaching anecdotal evidence as opposed to what we actually see happen in the film.

 

[JB1981]

Is it me or is the new viral video of young Weyland released implying he is preparing either for a talk or a meeting?

What did he say? I can't understand. Something like "I am the last of my kind" and "I'm going for a walk"?

I got the feeling that if we had found out that Weyland and David knew what they were going to look for on the moon base, it would explain wtf David is doing and why he is seemingly careless: he is not careless, he knows what he is manipulating.

So I theorized a few days ago that Weyland might have either entered in contact with an alien way before the movie itself, which may have "shaped" his intentions, his life-goals.

You know what I think the hologram showed at the end of the movie? The engineer sent a communication to Earth, 2000 years ago or so, or whenever it was that he went to sleep.

We see them come in the room, they all go in their beds, except one who sits in the chair and uses the flute. A flute is a musical instrument (communication). In the artbook, it says that deck is a control deck, while the dentist-chair-thing in the middle is the PILOTING chair. So that engineer did not "dial the coordinates to Earth". He sent a communication TO Earth, and then headed into his sleeping pod, waiting.

This explains why we thought it was weird, or a plot hole, that the engineers are seen seemingly leaving for Earth, but when the humans arrive the guy is sleeping and it looks like the ship never even tried to leave.

It didn't try to leave, it sent a message to Earth, and waited for mankind to come.

Mankind came, and woke the engineer up. Why the engineer wanted that? Mystery.

Eh don't know about this. It would be a cool twist but Weyland clearly states in the movie that it was Shaw who convinced him that these people might have had the answers to life and immortality.

 

[Solo]

Thread is still going? Never before has GAF talked so much about a movie that has so little to talk about.

 

[cloud_sleep]

Something I can't remember: how did they know where to find the engineer structures on the planet? Did they just fly into low orbit until they saw them?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Space Jesus considered a ballsy thing to do? Bwahahaha

Get David Icke involved in the sequel, let's Illuminati up this bitch with an explanation for lizard people to ask even more deep and difficult questions! Space Armageddon was actually to get rid of the Antichrist aliens that were hiding amongst us. Weyland himself was one but didn't realise, which is why he had to be killed, Burke can be as well explaining all the darker actions of humanity and the Weyland corporation.

It wouldn't be that more laughable or lazy storytelling than the mess we have already, but can be painted as oh so clever and thought-provoking!

The last of the trilogy can explore the challenging concept of Space Hitler.

 

[daviyoung]

Something I can't remember: how did they know where to find the engineer structures on the planet? Did they just fly into low orbit until they saw them?

Yeh, Hardy2 spotted them and was so proud of his eagle vision he spent the rest of his time getting drunk in celebration. At the end David mentions there are loads of engineer ships, so presumably loads of pyramid hangers for them.

 

[Keylime]

It's these fan theories to explain away mistakes that highlight exactly the reason I hate shitty writing like this.

The whole 'UNLESS!!!' based on the most far-reaching anecdotal evidence as opposed to what we actually see happen in the film.

Well...I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm just fabricating things for convenience sake. We know that Fifield was getting high (we don't know when he started, but it seems plausible that it was post initial pup-deployment and post-breaking up with the group...but just my theory).

The movie gives us enough data to conclude that Fifield shouldn't be acting normally. I'm interpreting the when part, and reading into the Bio-Boy relationship angle to make that scene make sense.

All I'm saying is that there's evidence to show what happened, but to your point it isn't at all conclusive.

 

[JB1981]

Thread is still going? Never before has GAF talked so much about a movie that has so little to talk about.

And you have added nothing to the conversation. This was funny the first time, now you just seem like an attention whore.

 

[DECK'ARD]

And you have added nothing to the conversation. This was funny the first time, now you just seem like an attention whore.

It is still the best thing to come out of the film.

Maybe if they'd tackled a simpler fairy tale like the Pied Piper rather than the Bible we would have had a better film as well?

So that gif is actually a powerful criticism of the writing on several levels!

 

[Solo]

And you have added nothing to the conversation. This was funny the first time, now you just seem like an attention whore.

Do you disagree that the movie is very dumb and the stuff being discussed isn't due to the interesting questions the movie poses, but rather due to how horrendously conceived and executed it is?

Also, you need to relax. Put on some music and chill out.

 

[Replicant]

Just saw some pictures from the artbook. I find that some of the art concept to be far more cool-looking than the final CGI product. That octopus creature, Trilobite, looks less like Octopus and more like some kind of creature from Hell. Wish they had done it more like that.

 

[JB1981]

Do you disagree that the movie is very dumb and the stuff being discussed isn't due to the interesting questions the movie poses, but rather due to how horrendously conceived and executed it is?

Also, you need to relax. Put on some music and chill out.

I'm perfectly chill. You just show up on every page to post your funny gif. Its funny I'll give you that but every page? And I think the movie has a lot of missteps, but it plays better with a second viewing.

 

[Solo]

Go look at how many pages I've actually posted it on, and you'll see the claiming I've "posted it on every page" is as hyberbolic of a statement as "Prometheus is a competently made movie" is.

 

[JonnyBrad]

I've actually only just realised it wasn't Tom Hardy.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm perfectly chill. You just show up on every page to post your funny gif. Its funny I'll give you that but every page? And I think the movie has a lot of missteps, but it plays better with a second viewing.

This would put you in the bargaining stage of grief.

 

[brandonh83]

Like him or not, Lindelof gives people shit to talk about. Whether it's good shit, bad shit, empty shit or full shit, people still apparently enjoy to talk about some of the shit he writes.

Personally? I think that's a bit nicer than leaving the theater or turning off the TV with zilch to talk about, or the urge to talk about it. I like things that are convoluted and risky. Sure it could have been written better, but the movie was still a very fun watch and 4-5 days later I'm still thinking about it and still interested to see what others have to say about it.

Anyway, it's weird to talk about something after actually seeing it, rather than posting in Bond and Batman threads for 3+ years in advance when there's not much to talk about-- right Solo?

 

[Keylime]

Like him or not, Lindelof gives people shit to talk about. Whether it's good shit, bad shit, empty shit or full shit, people still apparently enjoy to talk about some of the shit he writes.

Personally? I think that's a bit nicer than leaving the theater or turning off the TV with zilch to talk about, or the urge to talk about it. I like things that are convoluted and risky. Sure it could have been written better, but the movie was still a very fun watch and 4-5 days later I'm still thinking about it and still interested to see what others have to say about it.

Anyway, it's weird to talk about something after actually seeing it, rather than posting in Bond and Batman threads for 3+ years in advance when there's not much to talk about-- right Solo?

It really does feel like Lost in that respect...but the problem with the movie is that movies are supposed to be standalone things Lindelof's style was a lot more tolerable because you always had the carrot of next week's episode dangling in front of you.

A Prometheus 2 isn't a week away...it's years if it's going to happen at all!

I enjoy trying to find the meaning in things like this.

Definitely issues with the movie in terms of execution (can't be repeated enough), but the things it presents are interesting enough to try and figure out to me. I think there are a lot more layers at work than a lot of people are giving it credit for.

Why do I think there's more to this movie? Because it's what I choose to believe...

 

[Karma Kramer]

Entering a thread about a film and complaining that people are talking about the details of the film isn't funny, it's annoying. The complaints about the writing have been made very clear to anyone who has followed this thread or the other one. However despite this for myself at least, the atmosphere, visuals, and some of the characters were engaging enough for me to care about the story more. After I saw 2001, I knew I had enjoyed an amazing piece of art, but I had no idea what the film was saying or what deep questions it was asking. The simple fact that it instilled wonder in my imagination was enough. Prometheus despite having questionable character motivation and whatnot still was able to spark my imagination and make me wonder and think more about why I was captivated.

Sci Fi shouldn't be so cut and dry anyway. The new Star Trek or Avatar were less engaging/interesting than Prometheus in this regard... but I did enjoy Avatar for the adventure.

 

[Tom_Cody]

All this is true of 2001 as well, and that's considered a classic. Want the answers? Read the books. Otherwise, figure it out on your damn own. I'm not saying this was a classic (it wasn't), but I don't think "it makes you come to your own conclusions" is even remotely why it fails to be.

good point

 

[brandonh83]

Definitely issues with the movie in terms of execution (can't be repeated enough), but the things it presents are interesting enough to try and figure out to me. I think there are a lot more layers at work than a lot of people are giving it credit for.

I watched it knowing that there will be more. Some people hate this but I never did. I like ongoing stories and I don't have a problem waiting for them to continue. If this movie ended and there was no talk of sequels or the idea that there will be more, I would find that disappointing but there has been talk about how it was conceived as at least a two-parter long before the movie opened, so I watched it knowing that and knowing that it's not really the end of it.

Like you said some of the execution is bad, but I don't throw in the towel unless I just simply didn't like the movie. And I did. I liked a lot of it, but I can like something and still have problems with it. I have problems with most movies I watch. I had more problems with The Dark Knight than I did this movie.

The problem with the Prometheus discussion so far I think has been the borderline amusing hatred toward Lindelof. Yeah, he wrote it. Or some of it. And then Ridley Scott made it and then Scott and the editor chopped the movie up. Who knows what was written or filmed and left out. Nobody but the filmmakers do.

Some of us just want to talk about the movie, while others just want to watch the world burn.

 

[JB1981]

Go look at how many pages I've actually posted it on, and you'll see the claiming I've "posted it on every page" is as hyberbolic of a statement as "Prometheus is a competently made movie" is.

Pretty much since you have seen the movie you have posted that gif on every page.

 

[DECK'ARD]

For me Prometheus is almost as much an insult to intelligence as something like Transformers, just in a completely different way.

Engages you far more while interested in seeing what happens and caught up in the world that has been created, starts frustrating you with the lack of motives, odd behaviour, poor structure and apparent contradictions, then starts steadily falling apart from the minute you leave the cinema onwards.

To the point now I think it was a hopelessly ill-conceived film, and executed so badly because of that.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I remember when the first LOTRs film came out and people whined about the ending in that and how it didn't finish the whole narrative. I'm not sure what they expected tbh, but if Prometheus 2 is made and it adds cohesiveness to the first one, then in hindsight no one will really care about those flaws, just as no one watches the first LOTR film on dvd now and gets upset when they realize its over.

 

[Karma Kramer]

For me Prometheus is almost as much an insult to intelligence as something like Transformers, just in a completely different way.

Engages you far more while interested in seeing what happens and caught up in the world that has been created, starts frustrating you with the lack of motives, odd behaviour, poor structure and apparent contradictions, then starts steadily falling apart from the minute you leave the cinema onwards.

To the point now I think it was a hopelessly ill-conceived film, and executed so badly because of that.

Transformers literally asks zero questions to the audience and doesn't hold a candle to Prometheus in terms of tension and atmosphere. Prometheus has a soul from purely a visual point of view. The story and characters aren't fleshed out yet, but big things have small beginnings.

 

[Solo]

Transformers literally asks zero questions to the audience

Neither does Prometheus.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Neither does Prometheus.

It asks the question of creation and the motivation behind it. If we are to create AI just because we can, then why do we look at any potential creator of humanity as someone who loves us?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I remember when the first LOTRs film came out and people whined about the ending in that and how it didn't finish the whole narrative. I'm not sure what they expected tbh, but if Prometheus 2 is made and it adds cohesiveness to the first one, then in hindsight no one will really care about those flaws, just as no one watches the first LOTR film on dvd now and gets upset when they realize its over.

The themes in Prometheus are so literal, so heavy-handed and so unoriginal that I really have no confidence in seeing what they will come up with next in a further attempt to be profound.

You'd have to junk nearly everything the film is set-up on to build a story that is more believable, more satisfactory and more compelling. That for me is Prometheus' big problem, not its big idea. Straying too far from Alien to build a satisfying story in that regard, and straying too far into an area that was too poorly thought out and trying to be too clever for its own good.

Leaving a film trying to straddle an awkward middle ground unsure of the story it is even trying to tell, or how to tell it well enough.

 

[andycapps]

Lindelof also gets a lot of shit, but Spaihts wrote the script as well. And everything was approved and guided by Scott, he's not the type to not be involved in the process and give them the main plot points to hit.

 

[Karma Kramer]

The themes in Prometheus are so literal, so heavy-handed and so unoriginal that I really have no confidence is seeing what they will come up with next in a further attempt to be profound.

You'd have to junk nearly everything the film is set-up on to build a story that is more believable, more satisfactory and more compelling. That for me is Prometheus' big problem, not its big idea. Straying too far from Alien to build a satisfying story in that regard, and straying too far into an area that was too poorly thought out and trying to be too clever for its own good.

Leaving a film trying to straddle an awkward middle ground unsure of the story it is even trying to tell, or how to tell it well enough.

Whats not believable about humans finding evidence of a constellation in ancient civilizations. Discovering an ancient alien structure on a planet in that constellation. Discovering it was being used for biochemical dna research / weaponry (something humans take part in). And that our creators show just as much love and care towards us as we do with a robot/AI? The only parts thats less believable is the poor decisions by the crew, but this is true in pretty much any horror/science fiction. Also the notion that humans wouldn't do anything to appease their curiosity or to gain new knowledge/recognition is untrue. Which is why I can believe a biologist would do something stupid like that. Just as biologists/scientists swim or tackle giant flesh eating lizards (steve irwin etc).

The original Alien film isn't really any deeper than Prometheus either... and it also includes many things that go un-answered.

 

[Solo]

Weyland: "I'm going to fund a trillion dollar space expedition to an uncharted world in search of our maker, so make sure the world's best and brightest scientists................. don't apply".