London 2012 Summer Olympics |OT|
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Napoleonthechimp
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You're not Chinese or of Chinese descent are you? You remind me of some of the richer Chinese people I know who live in their own bubble thanks to their privileged upbringing.
Psychotext
Member
This nutter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Horan
Amazingly the Olympics was after he'd done that at Silverstone and Epson. There's no way he should have been allowed to travel.
Oh, and re the swimming. I still think the comparison to Lochte is a bit silly. He was miles ahead at the turn and cruised to victory. He went from being faster than world record pace to being 1.5 seconds off it. She on the other hand went from slower than world record pace to beating the world record by about a second
See above, and he didn't break the world record in the 400m medley.
I am pretty damn sure that there are sprinters faster than Usain Bolt in the world and better swimmers than Phelps and Lochte but they choose not to compete, some people really don't care for competition.
demigod
Member
WTF? You're the one that came out with "never heard of her before" and she hasn't won any medals and I gave you a link.
No I am a white guy living in the Bronx in a not so good neighborhood, do you want a picture?
But the French and Chinese are already competing!
LQX
Member
Yes! I have to see this.
Wafflecakes
Member
That is ridiculous. Competing is what makes people good.
There may be people with the POTENTIAL to be better. Thats not the same thing though.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Today the British female volleyball team won against a team that was ranked much higher. The British team received no funding and very little help from their government, now just imagine if that nation had seemingly unlimited funds to throw at every single competitive sport and a desire to put themselves ahead of every other nation on the world stage. I think their results would be substantially higher than most countries.
Wafflecakes
Member
Do you read before you post? Out and out lie to say I said that she never won any medals.
"I could be wrong but didn't the Chinese girl come out of nowhere? Missy has won a bunch of hardware internationally. Not the same situation at all imo."
1. I could be wrong but didn't the Chinese girl come out of nowhere? - As I said. I wasn't sure and asked. Turns out I was wrong. I left the door open intentionally because I am no expert.
2. Missy has won a bunch of hardware internationally. - Was a response to people who were asking why Missy (who is also young) wasn't being accused of cheating.
3. Not the same situation at all imo. - Which is true because Missy is the favorite in many of these events. The Chinese girl was not coming in. Hence the surprise at her performance.
4. I specifically said I didn't believe she cheated.
KillerMan91
Member
Michael Phelps winning eight gold medals in single olympics with seven world records: No one has any issues. Chinese girl wins one gold with new world record: She might use doping! Hypocricy here is staggering. If they catch her from using doping so be it but before that we should just be amazed by her swimming.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It isn't the fact that she's a good swimmer that's the issue, it's that she's substantially better than a fully grown man who is also a proven gold-winning Olympic swimmer. That is bound to raise a few eyebrows.
This is the equivalent of saying "are people really accusing Barry Bonds of using steroids because he hit a lot of home runs?"
There's more too it than that. The fact that she was 16. Came out of nowhere. Beat her personal best by 5 seconds. Which is unheard of. Beating every single man. Could she have done it on her own? Sure but that doesn't mean it's incredibly suspicious.
Psychotext
Member
Lochte (cruising to victory): 4m 05s
Little Girl: 4m 28s
Seriously people, quit it with this shit. She wouldn't have even beaten 8th in the mens race (she'd have been 14 seconds off 8th place).
Girl seems to be in phenomenal form. Won her heats with ease. Should win another gold.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It isn't the time she took to finish it, it's that she was accelerating faster than he was (even at the very end of her swim when most people are exhausted). He has come out and admitted that she would have beaten him.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Thank you England and your lousy weather for putting the volleyballers in full body suits. These Czech women are beautiful, and putting up a darned good fight.
I don't really understand the logic about those question about Ye Shiwen.
1) According to them, it is not racism because Chinese has a history of doping. But then, every countries has been caught doping one time or the other... may as well write off the entire MLB as a league of cheaters because some famous dude (A Rod?) has admitted in doping.
2) They also claim the winning was not suspicious. However the part where she is faster than Ryan Lotche in the last 50m is. Of course they conveniently ignore the part that she is overall 25 seconds slower. The problem is if you extrapolate data, you can almost get anything. For example, the last half of the 1st quarter (i.e. 12.5% of the game, same as 50m out of 400m) in the USA-FRA basketball game, FRA outscore USA by 11-8. Does that mean FRA is going to win 88-64 for the whole game?
It is not the first time someone come out from nowhere. Before the 2008 Olympic Usain Bolt did not win anything major either, but then he smashed record with ease and I don't recall anyone questioning him.
I just think people should give the benefit of doubt when there are no evidence of any kind. If there are doping of any kind chances are it will be caught in days anyways.
1) According to them, it is not racism because Chinese has a history of doping. But then, every countries has been caught doping one time or the other... may as well write off the entire MLB as a league of cheaters because some famous dude (A Rod?) has admitted in doping.
2) They also claim the winning was not suspicious. However the part where she is faster than Ryan Lotche in the last 50m is. Of course they conveniently ignore the part that she is overall 25 seconds slower. The problem is if you extrapolate data, you can almost get anything. For example, the last half of the 1st quarter (i.e. 12.5% of the game, same as 50m out of 400m) in the USA-FRA basketball game, FRA outscore USA by 11-8. Does that mean FRA is going to win 88-64 for the whole game?
It is not the first time someone come out from nowhere. Before the 2008 Olympic Usain Bolt did not win anything major either, but then he smashed record with ease and I don't recall anyone questioning him.
I just think people should give the benefit of doubt when there are no evidence of any kind. If there are doping of any kind chances are it will be caught in days anyways.
Psychotext
Member
Utterly ridiculous. She'd have beaten his cruise to victory after he posted world record pace? She wouldn't have even been in the same length.
We have absolutely no idea what her potential best is. She could have been pacing herself against her competition before going for it in the final stretch (thus not exhausted, tons left in the tank). Drugs will give you 10-15% (documented scientifically)... they don't make you faster than the best man in the world at swimming over the final stretch (if you could even get close to him in the first place).
What are people suggesting, genetic engineering?
We have absolutely no idea what her potential best is. She could have been pacing herself against her competition before going for it in the final stretch (thus not exhausted, tons left in the tank). Drugs will give you 10-15% (documented scientifically)... they don't make you faster than the best man in the world at swimming over the final stretch (if you could even get close to him in the first place).
What are people suggesting, genetic engineering?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Okay, we get it. We'll never question the almighty China again.
In most cases it's their fault for playing late at night. Why it was organised like that I'll never know.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul enjoying the volleyball.
Syracuse022
Member
You don't? Well, they did. And they've been questioning his training partner leading up to the 2012 Olympics because his rise has been just as meteoric.
Sarcastic Response
Banned
Worded that weirdly because I was referring to Ye, not Lochte.
This isn't true. Usain Bolt broke the world record before Beijing and he also won the World Junior Championships in the 200m in 2002 and 2003. Bolt didn't start running the 100 until 2008, but he has a nice 200 progression from 2001.
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographies/country=JAM/athcode=184599/index.html
I'm not on either side of the argument, but both have merits. She could be doping given her huge PB, or she could be emerging as a dominant swimmer. Time will tell.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
For the record I don't think she was doping (and have never used that word when discussing her), but I do believe that she has benefitted heavily from China using it's financial muscle to buy up all of the best coaching talent in the world for a lot more money than others are willing (or able) to pay. Hence their growing dominance in more and more sports.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
She's probably doping to some extent, like all top athletes.
Napoleon, earlier in the thread you were calling for the abolition of state funding for athletes who do not perform and now you are attributing China's success to their level of funding. I guess you must now understand the truth that money is one of several keys to success in the Olympics. Just take a look at how Britain's indoor cycling went from mediocre to top in the world. By investing in infrastructure, coaching, and sponsoring athletes so they could 100% focus on training in an event that yields many medals, Britain made a concerted effort to improve its showing in the Olympics... and in only 10 years after initiating the program they were at the top of the world. Other countries have made similar leaps forward in the past. Money is a requirement. It isn't the only requirement, not by a longshot, but it is crucial.
Napoleon, earlier in the thread you were calling for the abolition of state funding for athletes who do not perform and now you are attributing China's success to their level of funding. I guess you must now understand the truth that money is one of several keys to success in the Olympics. Just take a look at how Britain's indoor cycling went from mediocre to top in the world. By investing in infrastructure, coaching, and sponsoring athletes so they could 100% focus on training in an event that yields many medals, Britain made a concerted effort to improve its showing in the Olympics... and in only 10 years after initiating the program they were at the top of the world. Other countries have made similar leaps forward in the past. Money is a requirement. It isn't the only requirement, not by a longshot, but it is crucial.
Ah ok, I stand corrected then.
I just google and this is a huge list of people get caught in doping. I guess people want to base it solely on history then we should just write off everyone except maybe those from Solomon Islands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_sport
KillerMan91
Member
Well considering the size of Chinese population and their economical development I think it is only logical that they are starting to get more and more medals compared to rest. Money with big population is pretty much the ultimate combination in olympics.
Ravensmash
Member
Olympics has made me want to take up a sport.
Shame that I'm 21 and I've left it too late to ever be high up :[ Depressing thought
Shame that I'm 21 and I've left it too late to ever be high up :[ Depressing thought
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I was calling for that because of China's success. How is it possible to compete with a country with limitless financial resources that can trawl through a billion people to identify all the individuals with the best genetic potential for every sport?
Do we just pack up and leave? Do we start our own private athletic competition of good - but not as good as the Chinese - athletes?
I'm from Britain and we couldn't even fund our own fucking volleyball team (that just won today) nor give them enough resources to improve their world ranking against teams around the world. We have a limited amount of funding that gets pumped into traditional sports (track & field, swimming) that we are completely shit at.
I honestly don't see the point of any of our swimmers even bothering to compete if China can afford to pump out swimmers like that teenage girl.
The Skull Suits are banned too so something smells.
6'1 Amazon. Yes I said it.
Curling and Archery, one for each season!
RobotChant
Member
This. There is protocol for stuff like this so until then let it go.
Criticism of china and their financial might is unfair. China's rise in international sporting events is a testament that money matters. Wealthy countries having advantages is as old as time. It's only recently that China have been able to flex their wealth. As an American, it's obvious why we're consistently at the top of the medal rankings. We even help athlete from other countries. Even with the money, there are still many disciplines where we still consistently come up short.
No, she didn't. She won Gold in the 200m medley at the 2011 Worlds and Gold in the 200m and 400m medley in the Asian Games. She was competing against adults in the provincial championships in China at age 10 or 11. Totally asinine to accuse of doping just cause she's Chinese.
Ravensmash
Member
Hah! These games definitely do make me feel age conscious though - especially when I'm watching people 2 years younger than me aim for Olympic gold, while I'm sitting around the house wondering about whether any Pringles are in the house.
I've always been competitive though, and I've always enjoyed sport so I may try and do more, and in terms of actual sport (e.g. not elite top competition) I'm still quite young, I think.....
And you never know, you always see older athletes competing ;]
ONE DAY GAF
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Come back in a few Olympics when China dominates nearly every competitive sport, because you've got to know that time is coming. At that point I honestly don't see the point in bothering competing because only the "big boys" will have any hope of winning medals.
Guys, she's not better than Lochte. Her total time in the 400 IM was a full 23 seconds behind him.
Was she faster in the last 50M freestyle than his last 50M? Yes. But that could be due to a number of factors. Lochte could have been exhausted since he was so far ahead. And it's pretty clear that she was saving all her energy till the last lap since she was behind Beisel up until the end.
Did she set a new WR? Yep. But the previous WR was just one second behind. It's not exactly implausible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_400_metres_individual_medley
Was she faster in the last 50M freestyle than his last 50M? Yes. But that could be due to a number of factors. Lochte could have been exhausted since he was so far ahead. And it's pretty clear that she was saving all her energy till the last lap since she was behind Beisel up until the end.
Did she set a new WR? Yep. But the previous WR was just one second behind. It's not exactly implausible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_400_metres_individual_medley
as
Maybe you are not, but that executive of whatever swimming coach association went as far as suggesting "genetic manipulation".
On the other hand, I think the major flaw in the Chinese system was it is too systematic, people train all the time and focus on technical details. People who are not really interested in their discipline got drag in simply because the officer think he/she has potential. Local official aiming for result instead of proper development of the child etc.
However I highly doubt US will simply fade away. US has a huge advantage that China doesn't - as a country that can attract many immigrants they can attract lots of talent not just as coach, but also as player. I remember the USA coach for the girl gymnastic team was from Russia and his daughter is also part of the team. Money can hire a good coach for a period of time, but country like US can attract talents for generations.
Maybe you are not, but that executive of whatever swimming coach association went as far as suggesting "genetic manipulation".
On the other hand, I think the major flaw in the Chinese system was it is too systematic, people train all the time and focus on technical details. People who are not really interested in their discipline got drag in simply because the officer think he/she has potential. Local official aiming for result instead of proper development of the child etc.
However I highly doubt US will simply fade away. US has a huge advantage that China doesn't - as a country that can attract many immigrants they can attract lots of talent not just as coach, but also as player. I remember the USA coach for the girl gymnastic team was from Russia and his daughter is also part of the team. Money can hire a good coach for a period of time, but country like US can attract talents for generations.
KillerMan91
Member
Well that is just how the world goes. My country (Finland) used to pull over 30 medals per olympics during first half of 20th century and now we have hard time to take one medal from olympics. You just have to grow to appreciate the smaller amount of medals when competition gets better and better all the time with the rise of China and others. You can't ban countries with bigger population than yours from olympics or there would be only one country competing.
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