Believe it or not, gamers who like the Atelier series are NOT pedophiles

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What's going on in here?

I can't believe this argument exists among gamers of all people.

While I don't personally enjoy or agree with the way underage girls are often depicted in animated Japanese media, saying that the Atelier franchise and similar entertainment is a gateway drug into pedophilia and shouldn't be enjoyed by any normal adult male is no different than saying Grand Theft Auto is a gateway drug into jacking cars and killing hookers. Such sensational claims are made by the misguided media quite often, and gamers are the first to laugh them off or dismiss them aggressively.

And don't give me this shit about not being able to find the "moe" art style cute. I'm a grown ass man, and I find the cast of Azumanga Daioh cute in the same way as I find Pikachu cute, and I assure you I have no desire to stick my dick in Pickachu. I also go to bars and have sex with women.

These generalizations are hilarious to me.

But isn't that source of the problem? ...I'm definitely in that camp. Also from watching segments or docs that admittedly portrayed people who consume this particular form of entertainment in a negative matter. I know, personally, that stigma does stick and its hard to shake the notion. But in the end, to each its own -- I honestly don't have any qualms with folks who enjoy this stuff. But for those who don't, I can see and understand why its easy to pass judgement, unfortunately.
 
For a comparison, how many people like Modern Warfare 2?

How many people don't like the Airport Scene?

From what the original post indicated, they do not like the sexualization in some of the CG, but they like the game itself.
 
What's going on in here?

I can't believe this argument exists among gamers of all people.

You need to read the "WHY JRPGs ARE DIYING?" threads to give you an Idea of how divisive can be some fans


While I don't personally enjoy or agree with the way underage girls are often depicted in animated Japanese media, saying that the Atelier franchise and similar entertainment is a gateway drug into pedophilia and shouldn't be enjoyed by any normal adult male is no different than saying Grand Theft Auto is a gateway drug into jacking cars and killing hookers. Such sensational claims are made by the misguided media quite often, and gamers are the first to laugh them off or dismiss them aggressively.

It will be interesting to actually discuss how fiction actually affect us beyond "Pedophile"or "Mass Killer".

I don't like panty shots or Moe Anime in general, and I agree with you that the generalizations are probably the most annoying argument and demerits a potential discussion about sexualization and pandering in Anime/OtakuCulture.
 
It's funny that you mention this, since the Atelier Totori screenshot repeatedly posted in this thread does exactly the same with the tentacle concept (it's a humorous event related to a late-game optional boss fight that makes fun of the whole tentacle concept).
But here's the thing - does it really make fun of it, or does it just feed into exactly the same thing it's purported to parody/criticise. It's a trap a lot of parodies fall into if they mess up the execution.

(Honest question btw, I know next to nothing about these games).


Confirmed necrophiliac.
Well, that's nothing new!
 
You have got to be kidding.
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I think an obsession (particularly Japan's) with cuteness/innocence is inherently problematic, not that you are necessarily obsessed.
May I ask why?

but usually I am more turned off by presentation that insults my intelligence than offends my sensibilities.
Sadly, most people do not share the same mindset and will write a game off immediately if it uses an artstyle that they don't like.
 
What burns me up the most is that, if we'd simply gotten the Salburg games all those years ago, this thread would instead be titled "why the heck has Atelier gone in the direction it has"? The original games were wonderfully non-gratuitous..
But would there really be much discussion to be had about that? Did you see Atelier Ayesha? The one with the modestly dressed older protagonist which reviewed on par with or better than Meruru? Did you see how it sold 40% less?
 
It is a challenge then to make people understand that we are not sexually attracted to little girls. What are games and anime filled with? Little girls obviously. Do we like these games? Yes. Do we like those anime? Yes. Do we equate little girls in fantasy to our real desires sexually? Definitely not. It doesnt help that these characters are often dressed provocatively.
Are you speaking for all anime fans, or just the folks who have been accused in this thread?

If you're speaking for everyone who likes anime, I really cannot agree with such a broad statement because it's probably false.
Yes, that's how SD works. That isn't how they look in their respective works with the exception of the last one.
What does SD mean?
 
I'm going back to being a 20/30something fast-talking swindling swashbuckler.

I haven't seen the series, but Arya is the most likeable character in the books bar none (well, except maybe Tyrion), so it seems an easy choice to make!

But Arya is fucking awesome, what are you smoking son?

Awesome? Likable? Guys, Arya is TEN in the books, and a tween or young teen in the series. You can't like her when there are so many other appropriate characters around.
 
But here's the thing - does it really make fun of it, or does it just feed into exactly the same thing it's purported to parody/criticise. It's a trap a lot of parodies fall into if they mess up the execution.

(Honest question btw, I know next to nothing about these games).
That's hard to say, you're basically asking how other people would react to it. I thought it was hilarious.


Awesome? Likable? Guys, Arya is TEN in the books, and a tween or young teen in the series. You can't like her when there are so many other appropriate characters around.
I'm sorry, I'll report for reeducation right away.
 
The thread is now East vs West. It goes to show how taste may differ depending on region.
But I'm an Otaku... So... Inclination East.
 
Yeah, my intention was to talk about how these games have compelling gameplay and that I can enjoy these games without thinking "hur hur I like little girls" like so much of GAF seems to assume. It went off the rails from there, I apologize.

There is no need to apologize, it was a good post that unfortunately had responses that went all over the place.

I was going to challenge some posts about Neptunia since there are a preponderance of buxom females, but after playing through Mk2 I hate to admit that they crossed several lines that have made me very uncomfortable. The heavy sexualization of younger characters is far worst than anything done by the PS3 atelier games.
 
Are you speaking for all anime fans, or just the folks who have been accused in this thread?

If you're speaking for everyone who likes anime, I really cannot agree with such a broad statement because it's probably false.

What does SD mean?

Don't worry, everyone knows you're not a part of animegaf. We'll shred your 3 previously rejected applications too.
 
I don't know, I'd be willing to be there are a fairly comparable number both. And there really isn't any solid factual evidence to support either side.
Infact, i'm going to scratch that, people are definitely more prone to being violent.

I'm not sure if that is actually true?
I was trying to use a less broad definition of violence in that case, particularly trying to separate sexual violence from the kind of violence usually portrayed in video games.
May I ask why?
Are you familiar with the concept of infantilization?
 
Don't worry, everyone knows you're not a part of animegaf. We'll shred your 3 previously rejected applications too.
But I made it on the wall of shame for the last animeGAF OT. Doesn't that count for something? Also I don't get this post.
 
There is no need to apologize, it was a good post that unfortunately had responses that went all over the place.

I was going to challenge some posts about Neptunia since there are a preponderance of buxom females, but after playing through Mk2 I hate to admit that they crossed several lines that have made me very uncomfortable. The heavy sexualization of younger characters is far worst than anything done by the PS3 atelier games.

Ah, CFW Trick scenes aren't exactly popular understandably.
 
The thread is now East vs West. It goes to show how taste may differ depending on region.
But I'm an Otaku... So... Inclination East.
Well the Japanese are not exactly sexually healthy right now are they? Isn't there a big problem there with young people and population decline?
 
Zel, I think of you almost like a brother on Gaf. You support my favorite football team, you like anime and cute things. You have a family, and you are a responsible hard working citizen. Your art is very nice. I got your back on this.

Cute stuff is cute. There are cute people. There are cute objects. There are cute games, cute characters, and cute pictures. Cute things are what you make of them. Nowhere in the stipulation of finding something simply cute does it mean you are sexually attracted to it. I found a drawing of a girl puking on a little cat the other day and thought the cat and overall picture was adorable. I find certain bugs and spiders cute. Those little jumping spiders? FUCKING CUTE! Does this make us manchildren? Probably. We are guilty as fucking charged there. It is a challenge then to make people understand that we are not sexually attracted to little girls. What are games and anime filled with? Little girls obviously. Do we like these games? Yes. Do we like those anime? Yes. Do we equate little girls in fantasy to our real desires sexually? Definitely not. It doesnt help that these characters are often dressed provocatively. Truth be told these items are marketed directly to a VERY NICHE group of people who do see them that way, but they also attract a larger audience who quite simply just likes cuteness because it makes them happy. I dont really know why this concept above so many others is difficult for people to grasp. You can grasp peoples sexual preference or political bend, or their taste in culture but for some reason the notion that a man can simply like cute things just doesnt register.

On a fundamental level, the brain may or may not see a bit of attraction in a young female, but thats what the basic human desire to multiply is supposed to react to. The difference comes from simply following the id, to going to higher brain function where judgement comes into play. Can people honestly say they havent wanted to steal something? Can they say they never wanted to do something bad ever? Of course not. We are all human. But the difference is people dont follow through with those acts. They use judgement and they SEPARATE REALITY FROM FICTION. Thats the most important part. Everybody has weird fucked up fetishes. Everybody has probably had an illegal thought or two, but all this really just explain the reason why self control and following laws is important. It is only the people who put these thoughts into practice that are actually dangerous, or else WE WOULD ALL BE IN JAIL MERELY FOR THINKING OF THINGS. Minority Report anyone? nobody wants that shit. Thats why people desire to be free. But there are responsibilities to being free such as NOT DOING FUCKED UP ILLEGAL SHIT.

There are however a wider group of people (like you and me) who are just simply childlike. I hold down a full time job. I have very little debt and soon I will have enough money saved up to put a down payment on a home. However I have never been so much as kissed by a woman. The two go hand in hand I suppose as I haven't tried very hard to market myself to the opposite sex, but it is what it is. I like childish things. I mentally live a more youthful lifestyle, but my sex drive is really, REALLY low. I just don't give a shit about getting laid to be honest. Im not obese and I think I look pretty decent to be honest so its not confidence issues, but somehow I missed the testosterone boat. But whatever. I like to surround myself with cute things, characters, objects, and culture. It keeps me happy and entertained, and it keeps me able to deal with the stresses of life. Not in a million years would I even think of inappropriately touching any child or teenager, let alone mistreat a woman. But somehow, in the grand scheme of things, possessing a gun makes you a killer much the same as possessing cute items makes you a pedophile. If you guys want to direct your hatred towards me and leave Zel out of it, fine with me.

My best suggestion to you is to just continue enjoying yourself. In no time that you have been alive have you hurt a child or mistreated one. You havent been on the news with pedophilia charges or threatened such actions. So really, dont worry what others think of you so much, because in the grand scheme of things WE ARE ALL FUCKED UP SOMEHOW.
So embrace those quirky things that make you who you are and as long as you have a firm grip on reality, you will be ok. Plus if I liked RPGs more (working through my first one, Xenoblade) then I would certainly have tried out these games you talk about. If these games were so dangerous and indicated pedophilia, people who bought them would be arrested on the spot. Think about it for a moment.

Well I said my piece so feel free to tear this comment apart. It doesn't really matter to me.

Indeed, we are like brothers! It is exactly as you say, there is a huge difference between 2D and 3D, between finding something cute and being sexually attracted to something. Cute things are cute, and if I play a game with a cute aesthetic for the gameplay and enjoy the cute aesthetic, this does not make me or you or anyone else who enjoys them a pedo. :)
 
Not normal to have an avatar of an underage girl. Not normal at all. Having it be a drawing of an underage girl doesn't change it all that much. It's creepy.

Nonsense, I just watched 'Kickass' the other day and Nic Cage's little girl is pretty much the sole reason the thing even exists, Ava worthy. Also the leading girl in Noroi, any Kuriyama Chiaki thing etc etc.
I not crazy am you are you are!
 
But would there really be much discussion to be had about that? Did you see Atelier Ayesha? The one with the modestly dressed older protagonist which reviewed on par with or better than Meruru? Did you see how it sold 40% less?

There are a variety of factors that could have accounted for a decrease in sales.

It is the start of a new arc, there is a new artist, franchise fatigue has hit the game after 4 subsequent releases, marketing didn't hit the target markets, etc.

I certainly hope that having an older protagonist is not the reason for it, since that is what I have been pining for in an Atelier game in a long time.
 
Didn't realize there was a stigma with the Atelier games. Didn't associate pedophile with Atelier though and still don't. Don't let them get to you Zel.
Got burned on playing a Gust, Idea Factory or Compile Heart game in the past. Not a big fan of item creation either so that's why I don't play the series. At least the premise of the story isn't the same saving the world cliche.
 
What burns me up the most is that, if we'd simply gotten the Salburg games all those years ago, this thread would instead be titled "why the heck has Atelier gone in the direction it has"? The original games were wonderfully non-gratuitous.
It could also be the case that the Atelier series might never have been made since Salburg could have been successful enough internationally that they would be able to sustain the sales and eventually get bought out by Namco or something.

But hey, as I said cute things sell in Japan and largely don't in America and stigma and blah blah blah I've already gone over this with my previous post and all I wanted to do was come up with a cunning excuse to link to some Noisia.
 
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