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[Xilium]

It seems to me that people from the outside looking in are far more prone to comparing anime to real life than those that are actually into it. I like (some) moe character designs and archetypes and it's pretty obvious that most are meant to be teenagers, for one reason or another. Even though I like these types of characters in anime/games, I find real life children/teenagers to incredibly annoying and unappealing.

As I stated earlier in the thread, anime characters are an idealized archetype. In the case of moe, their physical appearance is meant to maximize their cuteness with characteristics like big eyes, adorable mannerisms, and a petite body build. Their personalities depend on the archetype but generally speaking, the goal is to maximize the positives of a personality type while eliminating the negatives that generally come with it (i.e child-like innocence but only in situations that would produce a funny gag and not 24/7 like in real life). It's hard to escape the reality that cute can often be summed up as being child-like or underdeveloped, that said, most anime/moe characters simply don't exist in the real world from a physical and/or personality standpoint.

And I won't deny that for some there is a sexual element to it but attacking Atelier games and the like is rather ridiculous considering there is an entire industry that caters to that demographic (hentai anime/manga/games).

Lastly, since we are on the topic of pedophilia, I'd simply like to point out the fact that ~70% of child molestations are perpetrated by family members and ~90% of abusers are in a position of trust and opportunity with the victim. The abuser is usually a family oriented person or an otherwise seemingly nonthreatening person. Generally speaking, the "creepy guy" down the street or on the internet is just that, a creepy guy. Regardless of what you may think of their motives for being into anime/moe/loli characters, unless they are in a position of trust and opportunity with your child, they should be the least of your worries. A person that would molest your child is far more likely to be living under your roof than some random guy on the internet with an underage character avatar.

 

[chickdigger802]

Ok having not played any of the games... how bad does it get, like how risque?

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I think puppies are cute, but that doesn't mean I want to bone them.

When someone has a loli bodypillow, then you can start worrying.

 

[Ein Soph Aur]

It seems to me that people from the outside looking in are far more prone to comparing anime to real life than those that are actually into it. I like (some) moe character designs and archetypes and it's pretty obvious that most are meant to be teenagers, for one reason or another. Even though I like these types of characters in anime/games, I find real life children/teenagers to incredibly annoying and unappealing.

As I stated earlier in the thread, anime characters are an idealized archetype. In the case of moe, their physical appearance is meant to maximize their cuteness with characteristics like big eyes, adorable mannerisms, and a petite body build. Their personalities depend on the archetype but generally speaking, the goal is to maximize the positives of a personality type while eliminating the negatives that generally come with it (i.e child-like innocence but only in situations that would produce a funny gag and not 24/7 like in real life). It's hard to escape the reality that cute can often be summed up as being child-like or underdeveloped, that said, most anime/moe characters simply don't exist in the real world from a physical and/or personality standpoint.

And I won't deny that for some there is a sexual element to it but attacking Atelier games and the like is rather ridiculous considering there is an entire industry that caters to that demographic (hentai anime/manga/games).

Lastly, since we are on the topic of pedophilia, I'd simply like to point out the fact that ~70% of child molestations are perpetrated by family members and ~90% of abusers are in a position of trust and opportunity with the victim. The abuser is usually a family oriented person or an otherwise seemingly nonthreatening person. Generally speaking, the "creepy guy" down the street or on the internet is just that, a creepy guy. Regardless of what you may think of their motives for being into anime/moe/loli characters, unless they are in a position of trust and opportunity with your child, they should be the least of your worries. A person that would molest your child is far more likely to be living under your roof than some random guy on the internet with an underage character avatar.

Nicely said

 

[faridmon]

As someone who's played all three because of how fun they were, I can attest to their enjoyable-ness. I don't mean to say that everyone will enjoy it, but if you do like it, everything in the OP will ring true to you.

Although, I can kinda understand if you've played the first one. Compared to the second and the third games, the first was kinda shallow. The most fun I had with alchemy in that game was because of how loose inheriting traits were, so you could make equipment with amazing stats and amazing items because everything transferred. The second and the third are less fun in that regard, but the alchemy systems in those games are a lot "deeper" and the goals in the game a lot more interesting to make up for it.



Like I said, if you were interested in actually watching the gameplay, it wasn't a problem. I agree that it drove people away though. I heard that Kira had a lot of tough matchups in general. Not that I had a lot of time to explore the game before it died in my area...

Well, I haven't had a great amount of time to explore all of its feature, but I have to say I have felt that the game was one of those games that that had style without enough substance behind it. The battle system felt very shallow and the storyline wasn't my cup of tea. I have played one of the PS2 games (I actually can't remember which one was it as I have played in my friend house) and it seemed it had more personality and more depth to it. I feel that the transition to the HD platform gave it a bit more reliance on simple palette which is the alchemy and hence, had everything around it shallow.

Again, is just an opinion of mine and a first impressions of the games, and you know what they say about first impressions. After that, I never gave the series a second glance, but good for people who enjoy it.

Ok having not played any of the games... how bad does it get, like how risque?

Nothing bad happens in terms of what people are alluding to. there is some dodgy bath scenes that happens in Every JRPG game but, if you look past the initial design of the main characters of the series, then its pretty much safe.

 

[OceanBlue]

Ok having not played any of the games... how bad does it get, like how risque?

Street Fighter 4 has exposed me to more upskirts and fanservice shots than all of the Atelier games I've played combined.

I think puppies are cute, but that doesn't mean I want to bone them.

When someone has a loli bodypillow, then you can start worrying.

Since it's a loli bodypillow, would it just be a regular pillow?

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I had no idea this was even an issue surrounding these games. Looking at some of the posts saying the game is for pedophiles, I have to say their arguments are pretty weak.


I'll be keeping an eye on them though. Watching them get destroyed in other threads could prove to be entertaining.

 

[Finaika]

Ok having not played any of the games... how bad does it get, like how risque?

 

[Tomat]

I dunno. I had a lot of fun playing Zelda SS with my relatives watching. they wanted to know why I cut down every single tree and piece of grass lol.

Skyward Sword isn't a game I'd feel weird playing around random people. It's the anime games I'd feel a little bit embarassed about. Anime and manga is not something I talk to folks about outside of GAF and one of my friends.

penis

but seriously who? Family? Lady friend?


Now that i think about it, i'm not really comfortable with anyone watching me play any games.

I tend to perform worse with eyes staring at me play :S

A friend of mine, male, posts on GAF under the name crackbabyjr.

 

[Alex]

Ok having not played any of the games... how bad does it get, like how risque?

It's about as tame as your other mid-circle JRPG's. Stuff from Atlus, NIS, etc. It'll have it's few moments of pandering or nonsense, but it's mostly pretty tame stuff. It is just more girly, but I mean that's part of the reason my wife likes it and clearly some of the people here. So, whatever, I guess they're doing it right.

I feel like they should present it a little less gung-ho though... Because they get drug down by association to the dregs, which makes people have to ask questions like this. But clearly they have their market so what the hell do I know.

 

[chickdigger802]

I think puppies are cute, but that doesn't mean I want to bone them.

When someone has a loli bodypillow, then you can start worrying.

hmmm... wait fuck, i have a teddy bear somewhere around here. I'm already worried.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Sorry, i'm off my game, just woke up.

This is what gaming is about.

I haven't seen an anime in a while and this is gonna be my next for sure. Thank you for bringing Gintama to my attention!

 

[Crash Station]

I haven't seen an anime in a while and this is gonna be my next for sure. Thank you for bringing Gintama to my attention!

Just so you know, it has a very slow beginning. It gets hilarious relatively quickly though (at least relative to its length).

And post your impressions in the anime thread while watching it. It says summer, but really people just post about whatever anime they're watching at the time whether it be from that season or 1968.

 

[shaowebb]

The gust games in general are always hilariously written, and always have excellent turn based RPG gameplay. Those two reasons are why I play them and own so many of them. The fact that collecting alchemy parts and making new items not only nets me great gear/attacks/bonuses, but that it also generally is accompanied by hilarious sketch comedy for most of the items I make is another major thing.

The whole series is setup so perfectly to grow an addiction to item making, hunting, and usage. Its great and anyone who just writes it off as pedo-fodder has obviously never played any of them. That or they just plain hate comedic turn based RPG's.

 

[OceanBlue]

Just so you know, it has a very slow beginning. It gets hilarious relatively quickly though (at least relative to its length).

And post your impressions in the anime thread while watching it. It says summer, but really people just post about whatever anime they're watching at the time whether it be from that season or 1968.

I wouldn't post there. It's filled with pedophiles. You don't want to catch the pedo.

The gust games in general are always hilariously written, and always have excellent turn based RPG gameplay. Those two reasons are why I play them and own so many of them. The fact that collecting alchemy parts and making new items not only nets me great gear/attacks/bonuses, but that it also generally is accompanied by hilarious sketch comedy for most of the items I make is another major thing.

The whole series is setup so perfectly to grow an addiction to item making, hunting, and usage. Its great and anyone who just writes it off as pedo-fodder has obviously never played any of them. That or they just plain hate comedic turn based RPG's.

Rorona's battle system was pretty poor. Totori and Meruru have good ones though. It really feels like they tried to improve their system with each iteration.

I agree that everything in the games are geared towards getting you addicted towards the item system though. It's a lot of fun.

 

[Crash Station]

I wouldn't post there. It's filled with pedophiles. You don't want to catch the pedo.

Fuck, you're right. Hopefully I'm not already infected!

 

[faridmon]

First PS3 game, Rorona, is literally like the worst game in the series. It was pretty bad, unpolished stuff that comes with the first jump to 3D on a strict schedule. They got a lot better after that, freakishly so, considering how much polish and reiteration they get done within a years time, I mean these are good looking, very polished games running in full 720p with like 4X AA. I'm always surprised how much they can get done while the rest of their peers struggle.

Anyhow Ayesha is a new series, much better aesthetic as well, in my opinion. Especially the male designs and the color scheme. May wanna give that one a go in the future if you're ever hankering for some niche JRPG fluff. Unless they screwed that one up or something, I don't know.

Believe me, I have heard such comments about the game and its subsequent sequels, but I have watched videos and what seemed to irritate me about the first game was present in the second and the third one. Its unpolished state was not the reason why I disliked the game, but the whole flimsy package is what deters me to not enjoy it.

i haven't followed Ayesha, but unless they ramp up the battle system and the menu system, unfortunately, I shall continue to ignore the series. Again, it is an opinion of mine and I am not judging anyone that likes the series.

Spoiler

Anime thread has gotten worse. Fact.

 

[omlet]

Although, I can kinda understand if you've played the first one. Compared to the second and the third games, the first was kinda shallow. The most fun I had with alchemy in that game was because of how loose inheriting traits were, so you could make equipment with amazing stats and amazing items because everything transferred. The second and the third are less fun in that regard, but the alchemy systems in those games are a lot "deeper" and the goals in the game a lot more interesting to make up for it.

Honestly, the alchemy system (especially in Totori and Meruru, but also in Rorona) is really neat. I can definitely see how people wouldn't find it interesting (menu based, etc.) but it's designed well. The games are really pretty easy to "finish" but they're more challenging to "ace" (still not like super hard though). They're balanced very well in that regard. To get the most out of the alchemy system, you don't need to spend hours and hours grinding, but you need to like "the system" and enjoy the type of problem solving it presents. The system itself is not really that complicated, but the plethora of parameters does complicate things in a good way.

Gathering, fighting, traits, qualities, etc. with raw ingredients, transitional synthesis, and final product creation create a system that leaves almost total control in the player's hands. You can "get by" without really studying the system, but if you do figure out the ins and outs, crunch those numbers in your head, and so on, the alchemy system is actually sufficiently deep and, for people who enjoy that kind of thing, very satisfying (and, on a different but related note, a nice balance to all the fluff that most of the dialog/skits is full of).

I didn't think the premise of the games sounded too interesting to begin with, but once I played them and really spent a little time figuring out the alchemy system, which is not 100% transparent but is definitely transparent enough to where you never feel like you're just doing guesswork with your in-game numbers, I was very pleasantly surprised.

Again, it's all in what you're looking for out of the game. Learning how to take advantage of the toolset the game gives you appeals to me in the same way that I enjoy theorycrafting in MMOs, abusing things like calculators in FFT, building a perfect army in Ogre Battle 64, and so on. It'd be a lie to say the cute characters have nothing to do with why I gave the games a chance, but they are definitely not why I think the games are engaging from a mechanics perspective.

 

[Kusagari]

It's cool to think she's awesome, whatever.. no problem.

Yet, people have one avatar to represent them on a forum, and choosing to use an underage girl as your avatar.. it's strange.

I'm not gonna walk around with an Arya t-shirt.. and if I saw a grown ass man wearing an Arya.. yeah I'm thinking I'm keeping my daughter as far away from that dude as possible.

Choosing an underage girl as an avatar is a very conscious decision, it says something about someone.

Having an Arya avatar says to me.. I like GoT and I like Arya enough to use her as an avatar... and... that's creepy.

Is...is this post serious? I refuse to think any sane person could think like this. This post is far creepier to me than anyone with an avatar of an underage girl could ever be.

I guess anyone with a Joffrey avatar is a gay pedophile?

 

[The Grim Heaper]

Fuck, you're right. Hopefully I'm not already infected!

you're not just be careful from this day forward

 

[kiunchbb]

You should actually give them a try. They're really fun as games. As someone who really only plays fighting games and doesn't ever make time for other games, they managed to be interesting enough to pull me away. The alchemy system in the games are amazing.

I have full intention of playing them, but I am just too tire after work, chore, all the finance craps. It is getting harder and harder to enjoy RPG.
------------------

To get back in topic:
Nowsaday to watch anime or play "anime game", you have to deal with the loli and moe, kinda like how you have to deal with ubisoft drm when you want to play AC in PC. They can be 20 or 30 years old, that doesn't make them any better or worst of a character, I would like them just the same (and be as embarrass about it).

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Since it's a loli bodypillow, would it just be a regular pillow?

Oh you.

hmmm... wait fuck, i have a teddy bear somewhere around here. I'm already worried.

FBI should be busting your door down any moment now.

 

[faridmon]

Also, I think Tales series is more Lolli than Atelier series
*runs*

 

[Shurayuki]

penis

but seriously who? Family? Lady friend?


Now that i think about it, i'm not really comfortable with anyone watching me play any games.

I tend to perform worse with eyes staring at me play :S

Yeah I hate people watching me play too, my Mom probably thought I was constantly playing objectionable games because I'd always pause when she'd enter the room. Outside of party games it's just a private thing, playing games.

;~;

<3

Usually I'm the one getting denied I just had to pounce at the opportunity some other poster presented! I am completely without sin somebody bring me some stones!

 

[Tomat]

Yeah I hate people watching me play too, my Mom probably thought I was constantly playing objectionable games because I'd always pause when she'd enter the room. Outside of party games it's just a private thing, playing games.

I think a lot of people do this (with non-anime related games) mainly because they're trying to impress whoever is watching. That's my excuse at least.

 

[EVOL 100%]

The emphasis on creepy fanservice in anime and sexualization of underage girls is... unfortunate to say the least. But at the same time, the way some people think that any little girl drawn in the stereotypical anime artstyle automatically means pedobait is very perplexing.

For example let's take an avatar in this very thread:

Enlighten me, how is this sexualized?

 

[UrbanRats]

hmmm... wait fuck, i have a teddy bear somewhere around here. I'm already worried.

How does this make you feel?

Choose your reply wisely.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Cocona is the best character in Ar Tonelico 2.

Holy hell since when did you revert to your legendary avatar?

Legendary.

 

[omlet]

I have full intention of playing them, but I am just too tire after work, chore, all the finance craps. It is getting harder and harder to enjoy RPG.

Atelier games are seriously like the best thing to unwind from a stressful day. Like, that's specifically the kind of games they are. They're also very easy to play in small doses if you don't have much time.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I never played anything from this series, but want to. What makes this game worst than the hundreds of other other Japanese games that feature a plethora of underaged, loli, cute characters? That seems to the a disturbing trend now. So why do people say that about the Atelier series and not countless other JRPG or Japanese games in general?

 

[Shurayuki]

Skyward Sword isn't a game I'd feel weird playing around random people. It's the anime games I'd feel a little bit embarassed about. Anime and manga is not something I talk to folks about outside of GAF and one of my friends.

It probably depends heavily on where you live and how Japan is perceived there. Having lived in Duesseldorf with the second biggest japanese population outside of Japan living there & studying Japanese Studies I constantly found people chatting about them feverishly, with me completely out of the loop since I have little interest in them generally.
(watched a bunch Ghibli and Serial Experiments Lain&Boogiepop Phantom in the past, kinda went "well I've seen the best now" and never looked back)

I think a lot of people do this (with non-anime related games) mainly because they're trying to impress whoever is watching. That's my excuse at least.

Ahaha I guess, gotta flaunt that Starcraft APM! I mean with close friends especially if they're gamers too you/I would never do that, but with people you assume to not be into games it just feels weird, probably because of the stigma still attached to games (somewhat ironically for this thread, that games are childish/immature, only fitting then no?).

 

[Crash Station]

I never played anything from this series, but want to. What makes this game worst than the hundreds of other other Japanese games that feature a plethora of underaged, loli, cute characters?

Nothing. It's actually probably one of the least offensive ones on that front.

 

[Einbroch]

The time limit is the stupidest and most offensive part about this series.

 

[Saprol]

The time limit is the stupidest and most offensive part about this series.

Time limits give me anxiety. I'll end up obsessing over how unoptimal my play is because I might not get everything done that I want to do, such as crafting all that sick gear and getting the right ending.

Hell, Pikmin 1 bugged me with the day limits.

 

[jman2050]

You spelled Cloche wrong.

You spelled Jakuri wrong.

 

[Mandoric]

The emphasis on creepy fanservice in anime and sexualization of underage girls is... unfortunate to say the least. But at the same time, the way some people think that any little girl drawn in the stereotypical anime artstyle automatically means pedobait is very perplexing.

For example let's take an avatar in this very thread:

Enlighten me, how is this sexualized?

Her skirt ends literally a quarter inch below the bikini zone. That's an incredibly high hemline.

 

[MrBS]

Put me down as another Neptunia customer. Actually as far as NISA games go I think Atelier is the only franchise I dont buy lately.

 

[Shurayuki]

Time limits give me anxiety. I'll end up obsessing over how unoptimal my play is because I might not get everything done that I want to do, such as crafting all that sick gear and getting the right ending.

Hell, Pikmin 1 bugged me with the day limits.

Yeah when I was a kid I rented most of my games (that stopped mainly because they passed some new law and stores stopped renting out games for the most part for some reason, has never been the same since in Germany) but I would never rent a game that had anything about time limits in it's back-text or a countdown in the screenshots. They're the worst!

 

[makingmusic476]

Disgusting:

(Inspired by the C&H love thread in OT.)

 

[Kusagari]

Disgusting:

(Inspired by the C&H love thread in OT.)

Get that smut out of here.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I'm still not sure I can agree with the "small group of people" bit. Why would companies cater to it if the market for it was small? With all due respect I think that small group isn't as small as you think. Just to be clear though, I'm not saying this is a group of people who would act in real life on their fantasies. In my head I think the opposite actually. What I should have said clearly earlier is I think that there are far more people who look at the younger characters in anime/manga/anime video games in a sexual manner due to the panty shots and other ways some devs cater.

I agree with this...

Playing games that have panty shots and such doesn't inherently make someone a creep, but personally I think that the % of gamers who are creeps that play these games is higher than other titles; for instance, madden, or COD or something.

 

[EVOL 100%]

Her skirt ends literally a quarter inch below the bikini zone. That's an incredibly high hemline.

If you say so, but the way it's presented eliminates anything that even comes to close the sexualization imo.

 

[Tomat]

I agree with this...

Playing games that have panty shots and such doesn't inherently make someone a creep, but personally I think that the % of gamers who are creeps that play these games is higher than other titles; for instance, madden, or COD or something.

I'd say I was only half serious with that post. I know why there is a market for it, but I still think the market is a bit bigger than Cajunator thinks it is.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I'd say I was only half serious with that post. I know why there is a market for it, but I still think the market is a bit bigger than Cajunator thinks it is.

I'm fully serious with mine. Of course I'm also pulling from anecdotal experiences as well...

 

[Aexact]

I never played anything from this series, but want to. What makes this game worst than the hundreds of other other Japanese games that feature a plethora of underaged, loli, cute characters? That seems to the a disturbing trend now. So why do people say that about the Atelier series and not countless other JRPG or Japanese games in general?

Probably because the main Atelier games have young girls as main characters (and thus, the game cover, advertising and OT banners) and more delicate, flowery art as I hadn't seen such complaints pointed at Atelier Iris or Mana Khemia, which are from the exact same mold. Even alchemy game Ar Tonelico and far more deserving of any comments thrown it's way, the response to that game seems more "lol" rather then "lol pedo".

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Posting in future graveyard thread.

In seriousness, I'm not an anime fan, but I did think Meruru was cute.

I gave the game a try because of that, and because the gameplay sounded light and appealing, and it was. Little rough on the OCD, but pleasant and fun, and what the battle system lacked, the music made up for. Probably the most obnoxiously cute OST I've heard since Dewprism.

I think maybe some of us need to get some perspective here and realize that there's a large, albeit shrinking, portion of the population who thinks every man over 18 who plays any kind of video games is a basement dwelling manchild or raging jock rapist.

 

[DONJONJ]

What burns me up the most is that, if we'd simply gotten the Salburg games all those years ago, this thread would instead be titled "why the heck has Atelier gone in the direction it has"? The original games were wonderfully non-gratuitous.

I do hope someone sees this post but this thread is a disaster area already and it kind of breaks my heart. Dammit, Gust.

Missed this after I typed up my initial replies, but yeah this "gratuitousness" is really not meant for a western audience in the first place, not even sure if it properly helps the game sell towards that particular niche in the Japanese audience.

With that said, I'm not sure if the earlier games being present among the American audience to set the standard would help, the problem runs much deeper than that. There's many, many games people avoid because of the stigma associated with the presence of fanservice (specially when it's not centered around it and it's otherwise a good game), the drawing style, or even having a large female cast. It's a shame because as a gamer I feel I would have missed out if I let certain preconceptions keep me from trying a game, but I admit this would inevitably make me run into a fair share of shitty games, and it currently does.

With wonderful games like Recettear making waves though, I think you're fighting the good fight. I look forward to your future releases.

 

[Mandoric]

If you say so, but the way it's presented eliminates anything that even comes to close the sexualization imo.

You're supposed to point out that it's an eighth of an inch above her knees, too. Dammit, give me a challenge!

Spoiler

I'm assuming that bringing the name of the show in is out-of-bounds? :lol

 

[Branduil]

Wow. Next you'll be telling me that people who like Call of Duty aren't all secretly planning to murder Russians. Oh, I see that you did.

 

[sleepykyo]

You're supposed to point out that it's an eighth of an inch above her knees, too. Dammit, give me a challenge!

Spoiler

I'm assuming that bringing the name of the show in is out-of-bounds? :lol

Not at all. Spread the infection by naming it instead of leaving it as that which may be spoken.