snoopeasystreet
Member
Everyone knows that the only thing more serious than video games is video game journalism.
Press Reset: The Story of Polygon - financed by Microsoft for $750,000
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Everyone knows that the only thing more serious than video games is video game journalism.
mambadragon
Banned
And multitasking with GAF and maybe other forums at the same time? Give this man a Pulitzer and Nobel Prize. .
chickdigger802
Banned
So, how has the story of polygon been so far?
j0hnny_385
Member
GAF mob mentality strikes again.
Holy shit people, I came here this morning to see >10 pages after the last documentary.
I can't believe that you're seriously worked up over this site and it's documentary? WTF?
Does it truly bother you that much? Sure, they're "riding high", making an incredible buildup that we've yet to see if it will succeed but I don't think that this site and it's documentary deserves this kind of bile and hate. Don't like it? Walk away. Simple as that. Why do you have to poop on it all the time? *sigh*
Holy shit people, I came here this morning to see >10 pages after the last documentary.
I can't believe that you're seriously worked up over this site and it's documentary? WTF?
Does it truly bother you that much? Sure, they're "riding high", making an incredible buildup that we've yet to see if it will succeed but I don't think that this site and it's documentary deserves this kind of bile and hate. Don't like it? Walk away. Simple as that. Why do you have to poop on it all the time? *sigh*
I'm baffled by all the people who seem offended at the very idea that people might take reviews seriously (check out film or literary criticism for very serious fields about what might amount to entertainment).
Additionally, I REALLY take issue with the idea that people can't come to objective conclusions about things, based on intelligent discussion about the subject. We've had years of games that have come out to base assessments on, and tons and tons of feedback and discussion on these games. So... what's wrong with Arthur's approach to things? Ultimately, he wants people to talk intelligently about why people feel the way they do. Surely that's a good goal?
Or is it just how he puts across the idea? Because, honestly? The people I see who get offended at the concept that things can be good or bad, or that games shouldn't be taken seriously or whatever... well...
I remember taking this one class, and I had a habit of doing this, since it was a workshop environment. A couple students were trying to shut me up one day, and after class, I asked my professor. She told me, "listen, the people who respond that way don't know anything, and they don't want to know anything. You're making them think, and to them, that's painful. So I want you to keep doing it, because we need intelligence and insight in this class. It's how people learn."
So, y'know, me, I'm not a fan of Arthur's twitter feed, but the people who act like people can't come to objective conclusions about things kinda upset me. It's like they want to be ignorant and stupid--like they don't want to try to push the medium forward.
Using "probably" in an argument is not a good way to make an argument.
I like documentaries. This has the melodrama of a documentary. They're covering all the shit that goes into a website, based on the years of experience they all have in the field. I don't see it as pretentious, other than that very first video.
...because he was told that people at a studio were packing up, which he said was an absurd prospect. He was using that extreme example to illustrate that writing a review can be stressful. Right before him, Griffin talked about a developer emailing him saying that they were shutting down because of his poor score. They provided a couple extreme examples. It's not really a crazy statement to make.
Additionally, I REALLY take issue with the idea that people can't come to objective conclusions about things, based on intelligent discussion about the subject. We've had years of games that have come out to base assessments on, and tons and tons of feedback and discussion on these games. So... what's wrong with Arthur's approach to things? Ultimately, he wants people to talk intelligently about why people feel the way they do. Surely that's a good goal?
Or is it just how he puts across the idea? Because, honestly? The people I see who get offended at the concept that things can be good or bad, or that games shouldn't be taken seriously or whatever... well...
I remember taking this one class, and I had a habit of doing this, since it was a workshop environment. A couple students were trying to shut me up one day, and after class, I asked my professor. She told me, "listen, the people who respond that way don't know anything, and they don't want to know anything. You're making them think, and to them, that's painful. So I want you to keep doing it, because we need intelligence and insight in this class. It's how people learn."
So, y'know, me, I'm not a fan of Arthur's twitter feed, but the people who act like people can't come to objective conclusions about things kinda upset me. It's like they want to be ignorant and stupid--like they don't want to try to push the medium forward.
Using "probably" in an argument is not a good way to make an argument.
I like documentaries. This has the melodrama of a documentary. They're covering all the shit that goes into a website, based on the years of experience they all have in the field. I don't see it as pretentious, other than that very first video.
...because he was told that people at a studio were packing up, which he said was an absurd prospect. He was using that extreme example to illustrate that writing a review can be stressful. Right before him, Griffin talked about a developer emailing him saying that they were shutting down because of his poor score. They provided a couple extreme examples. It's not really a crazy statement to make.
Ingueferroque
Banned
If they honestly believe that statement as true.. well, yeah.
Interficium
Banned
Sleeplessnights
Banned
Just thinking that website may never launch is crazy, they've got some good people on-board.
BruiserBear
Banned
There are a variety of reasons for this reaction. Pure, unadulterated jealousy might be the biggest one. Some people do youtube video reviews, or have a little site they work on, so it makes them so upset when they see people getting paid well, living well, and launching a huge new site with any fanfare.
Then there are just those who don't like seeing anyone else happy, and successful, so they hope this fails badly, because then they'll feel better about themselves.
Then there are people who just don't like Arthur Gies, and because of that this particular episode just sent them over the edge. I'm not even his biggest fan myself, but I still have some objectivity remaining, so I don't feel the need to jump on every word he says.
Don't bother DocSeuss. If you haven't noticed, most of the people participating in this thread are not interested in being rational at this point.
Anyone know follows this industry closely knows how seriously publishers take review scores. There have even been stories of PR and studio bonuses being tied to Metacritic scores. It's serious business for those involved, so you can bet your ass some development studios would feel devastated to receive a harsh review from IGN. If they felt the future of their studio depended on high scores/sales, it wouldn't be impossible to imagine a bad IGN review feeling like the first nail in the coffin.
lol at IGN all you want, they are one of the biggest gaming sites out there, and they have a large number of readers. Arthur Gies worked for IGN when he wrote the review he mentioned.
Should the people that don't like war simply walk away? What about those fighting for the equality of their fellow man? "Don't like that people have to fly to Vermont to get married? Just walk away, man"
This is incredibly important stuff. Asking people to be quite about an issue as weighty as New Video Games Journalism is like asking people to stop talking politics, or religion, or Britney Spears. Just because some people may disagree about the state of the economy or the presidential election should they be silent? Did you even watch the most recent episode?
The only thing more important than video games and reviewing video games is talking about the people who review video games.
Team Filler
Member
Seems like a select few of you have just as big of a persecution complex as some of the Polygon staff. Perhaps you lucky few, you who are brave enough to face the almost insurmountable struggle that is the life of the well-funded enthusiast press PR flunky, can copy-paste-tweak some guest editorials for them.
Sephiroth503
Member
I'm just generally confused by the fact that any website would feel the need to produce a documentary about themselves.
I wouldn't be any of those journalist's biggest fans, hell not much of a fan at all, but I see nothing about this site that will elevate their opinion above any other publications reviews, which isn't saying much given the state of gaming press.
I wouldn't be any of those journalist's biggest fans, hell not much of a fan at all, but I see nothing about this site that will elevate their opinion above any other publications reviews, which isn't saying much given the state of gaming press.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, but being a doctor isn't an important job.
BruiserBear
Banned
Well, for starters I'm willing to bet the idea for the "documentary" wasn't conceived by the people hired to produce content for the site. It was likely an idea of the higher ups, or the marketing team, looking for an interesting way to introduce a new website to people, and frankly it seems like a pretty damn good idea IMO.
As we've already seen in this thread, people are watching. Reality TV is huge, and documentaries often get attention as well, so it sure seems to make sense to me why someone might think of this idea. Frankly, I'm not even sure why I just had to explain that to someone.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I mean, I know that no publicity is bad publicity and all that... but really, has this "documentary" honestly endeared anyone to this site or the people working there?
BruiserBear
Banned
Yes, I think it has for anyone who didn't have some pre-disposed disdain for those involved with the site.
Personally I've found them interesting enough to keep watching. I like the fact that they seem to take their work seriously. I like the fact that they're focusing on creating a very modern site, that works well across all platforms, etc. I've already been visiting the Verge site, and I find their content interesting enough to visit them daily now.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Fair enough.
Personally, though, I dislike Arthur enough to avoid the site altogether.
ShockingAlberto
Member
How dismissive.
Sephiroth503
Member
Yeah I know what you're saying and I understand that idea around the buzz such a documentary has produced. I was more thinking along the lines of Chacranajxy, this doesn't really endear me to them at all, as someone who isn't much of a fan. I don't think anyone honestly believes that these guys are going to do something new with games journalism.
I'll feel free to continue criticizing them until I see actual evidence of how they're doing things differently than the rest of games journalism.
They keep claiming that they're going to change everything ("I'M BUILDING AN ARK TO SAVE GAMES JOURNALISM", the trailer, etc.), yet all they've done as far as I can tell is create a newer and shinier Kotaku.
When you put yourself out there proclaiming that you're the best, you'd be a fool not to expect people to throw stones.
Team Filler
Member
The Gies Method to debating is well represented at NeoGaf.
Patryn: I agree with you, but to be fair, that ark comment seemed clearly tongue-in-cheek.
Interfectum
Member
Can't even imagine that stressful Halo 4 review they are working on...
"Is this game a 9/10 or a 10/10?"
"Is it the greatest game of the generation or the greatest game ever?"
"Is this game a 9/10 or a 10/10?"
"Is it the greatest game of the generation or the greatest game ever?"
BruiserBear
Banned
Just trying to keep up with the theme of the thread.
But seriously, do you think I'm wrong? Do you think that anyone spewing the hate in this thread didn't already have some pre-disposed opinion about some of the players involved in this site? Do you really think this little documentary just got them that riled up?
Do I think they're going to re-invent websites as we know them? No, but they clearly have some new technology behind the site, and it does seem like they're trying to think of how to more intelligently integrate advertising, etc. Thinking of things in some new ways.
The bottom line for me is that these are people who take their job seriously. That's what the videos have conveyed to me. Does that mean I think gaming is as important as world affairs? No. But if I'm going to invest any time in a gaming website, I'd like to know the people working on it take it seriously.
Sephiroth503
Member
Seems fair enough. I hope your right.
The real test will be whether their reviews are going to review the quality of the game and not the advertising budget like most other places.
Felix Lighter
Member
I had a positive opinion of some of the writers, a negative opinion of some others and no opinion of most of them.
Justin McElroy specifically, I liked from his time on the Joystiq podcast and other places that I've heard him speak and I still think he's a very funny guy. I think the Skyrim .gif people use as ammunition against him is meaningless and taken out of context. However, the way he's been presenting himself on Twitter and this documentary has really turned me off.
Justin McElroy specifically, I liked from his time on the Joystiq podcast and other places that I've heard him speak and I still think he's a very funny guy. I think the Skyrim .gif people use as ammunition against him is meaningless and taken out of context. However, the way he's been presenting himself on Twitter and this documentary has really turned me off.
Team Filler
Member
I'll tell you what preconceived notions I had: seeing Phil Kollar as part of the editorial staff had me greatly interested, along with some other members minus Arthur Badass-Tats Gies. However, everything that has transpired since had convinced me that they are in a serious need of self-reassessment. If this ridiculous trajectory of Polygon's continues, then I feel comfortable in never giving that site clicks.
i feel terrible for you that you can't find the humour in polygon's ozymandian self detonation.
i actively look forward to each episode now, it's game journalism's spinal tap.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
This is random, but I hate how Gies has used "Japanese" as a negative adjective in some of his comments or reviews about Japanese games. Just comes off as dismissive and not in a good taste and I'm not sure about that type of guy seeming to be the head for "New Video Game Journalism." I don't mind the idea of more serious looks at video games, but it didn't seem like the Polygon staff had any more writing talent than any other video game journalism from their reviews at Kotaku and other places.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I have seen literally nothing new or particularly interesting from Polygon. Every time they proclaim how great they are and how they are changing everything, I think of what I've seen from "The Verge Games" and how it's everything I've seen on every other gaming site.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
He says it's ridiculous but then if he says "it makes me feel like shit." Which means he believes it actually happened. Because of his review.
EA has fired its fair share of devs over the years, but I can guarantee you it's never been because of a single review.
Delusions of grandeur.
Foxtastical
Member
Well, you have a broad perspective on employment which is something most of these people are missing (even though I've seen some argue that they do, christ, they do not).To chime in seriously: I do stand by my original tweet (which, let's remember, called out no one by name.) My general feeling, applicable to every single person, including myself, in the gaming industry or those who cover the gaming industry for the press is: We have it ridiculously easy. NOT that the work isn't stressful at times, or that we have long days, or that it can BE hard (I sweated over every review I ever wrote). But just that, compared to what MOST people have to do every day, getting to work in a field that you love, that also happens to be a field specifically about HAVING FUN, is a freaking blessing. So when I watch videos of people doing serious hand-wringing over that, it just kinda makes me want to, like, fart loudly to set some perspective.
On the other hand, it bums me out to see personal attacks, as a result, on guys like Phil, Arthur, and Justin in response to this. They're good people and real people, even if they rub you the wrong way.
Healthy debate and criticism is all good. Personal attacks are a bummer.
Edit: Started watching episode 7, holy shit, do these people have any perspective on life/employment or is it simply the video's editing?
"If they're gonna buy that game or if they're gonna wait. That's a huge responsibility."
And the editing part? Christ, have any of these people worked other jobs or done graduate school or something? Editing happens, deal with it. I don't get what this episode is trying to convey to me.
Edit 2: I'd like to check out more of Russ Pitts' stuff, though.
GAF mob mentality strikes again.
Holy shit people, I came here this morning to see >10 pages after the last documentary.
I can't believe that you're seriously worked up over this site and it's documentary? WTF?
Does it truly bother you that much? Sure, they're "riding high", making an incredible buildup that we've yet to see if it will succeed but I don't think that this site and it's documentary deserves this kind of bile and hate. Don't like it? Walk away. Simple as that. Why do you have to poop on it all the time? *sigh*
It's GAF (the internet at large), man.
But I agree, mob mentality. When enough people decide to pile on any thought to what is a fair degree of backlash goes out the window.
TheSpoiler
Member
Too bad, man, you are probably just jealous of the success of others.
As kind of a rely to the guy who said that it's jealous; it's really not. If these guys do somehow change games journalism and avoid being pretentious, petty, and stop sniffing their own waste matter, then cool. I want video game journalism to become bigger, better, and fair.
That means more jobs, more education, and more assistance. One of my website's focus is to help others with their writing and so they have a place to put up work. A lot of my twitter and internet friends are people from other websites, most of which have a bigger following.
This medium needs help, and if these guys are going to state that they are changing video game journalism, then they damn well better.
nckillthegrimace
Member
What you're saying makes him sound like a racist.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
To be completely honest, I don't think there's a big enough market for what you'd like to see it grow into.
TheSpoiler
Member
Technology has, why not video games? I mean, we are talking about something that makes more money than movies. Even local news sites cover video games from time to time. Plus, with hundreds of thousands of millions of gamers, I'm quite sure many of them would be happy with some cleaned up websites, better reporting and writing, and a huge drop in sensationalizing.
Jealousy? Mob mentality? The documentary isn't their fault? C'mon.
These guys have gotten a little up their own asses and deserve to have the piss taken out them a bit. Everyone who watches those things has the same reaction, even their respected peers, so it's not just us pointing and laughing. How can none of them realize how bad it makes them look, not just from a personal point of view but also the impropriety of taking such a large payoff from Microsoft to pimp their shit when they haven't actually done any shit to pimp yet? It's misguided and needs to be mocked thoroughly for our own enjoyment.
These guys have gotten a little up their own asses and deserve to have the piss taken out them a bit. Everyone who watches those things has the same reaction, even their respected peers, so it's not just us pointing and laughing. How can none of them realize how bad it makes them look, not just from a personal point of view but also the impropriety of taking such a large payoff from Microsoft to pimp their shit when they haven't actually done any shit to pimp yet? It's misguided and needs to be mocked thoroughly for our own enjoyment.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Because he IS a good writer. Just totally obnoxious.
Maybe the two qualities have something to do with each other.
BruiserBear
Banned
That was probably the point.
Foxtastical
Member
To question further, who is this guy? Where did he come from? I stopped following gaming journalism after GFW left the scene.
C'mon?
You can do whatever you want but I'm going to try to only say stuff to people on the net that I would say to them face to face. Works for me.
Jake Tower
Banned
Or, the entire matter at hand gives off intense douche chills.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
What I mean is the growth in the gaming sector doesn't really translate into people interested in stories about their hobby. This really has no scientific way to check on it, but I'd imagine under 10% of people considered "gamers" (which is basically a huge glut of people who are non-gamers who play games...yep) have any interest in articles or stories about gaming. They just show up and play and leave it there.
bender
What time is it?
I believe he wrote notebook/other hardware reviews for some PC magazines. He and Anthony Gallegos were roommates and he started appearing on the Rebel FM podcast that formed after the 1Up layoffs. He was then hired by IGN. He also ran eat-sleep-play and I'd guess he'd done freelance work in the games industry with his 1Up connections (I seem to recall him on the 1Up show but maybe I'm confusing things with the Revision3 spinoff show).
Sephiroth503
Member
New 11 point scale. Every other 10 scale website will change so not to be outdone by The Polygon. Change in video game journalism confirmed.
Revolutionary, ground breaking. 11/11
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