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[RedSwirl]

If you wanna talk about internal factors, one of those recent "Sony doomed" articles went at length talking about how much pull the individual engineers have within the company. Sony got to where it was today because those engineers were allowed to do what they though was necessary to push forward and innovate. The article implies that they've gotten somewhat arrogant, that infighting and competition between the engineers has been a factor in Sony's lack of synergy, and that the new CEO (may have been the last one actually) has fought them trying to push forward the idea that "it's about content not just tech."

I think the Vita might represent a lot of it. If Sony marketed that thing right it could've basically been a 4" tablet with buttons. Why isn't Sony's own eBook store available on the Vita? Why did Sony then go and release their own separate eReader? Where's the rest of the third party software support?

Whether or not they get in the right place may very well depend on if those high up at Sony can break that cycle and get all the different divisions to work together. Sony has its hands in so many media pies that it could use to the PS4's benefit, but it's like the people actually building the machines don't know that.

If you wanna talk external factors, I think part of that, like the PS3's initial game library, is due to some factors that Sony simply didn't see coming. They probably assumed that the Japanese third party support would just jump from the PS2 on to the PS3, but they probably didn't anticipate the coming domination of western developers who are more friendly to Microsoft, or Japan's overall hesitation to transition to the new consoles. I honestly think that's what hurt the PS3 the most.

Sony's first party games are good and all, but the problem is that most of them don't lead, they follow. The OP noted how a lot of what they've done this gen is just following behind others, and I think that applies to a lot of their games too. Their games won't sell as much as Halo because none of them are as monumental or influential to the industry as Halo. Killzone and Resistance just look like more shooters. Uncharted is great but it didn't create a new phenomenon in gaming like Gears did. The closest thing a Sony platform has had to this is Monster Hunter in Japan on the PSP and how much it changed the market over there. Other than that, Sony really didn't get any killer apps this gen, and unless their first party studios strike gold I don't know if they will next gen either.

 

[Currygan]

Basically the same stuff as the PSP and that ended up selling 70 mill. The truth is the design of the hardware itself is going to be the separating line between more powerful phones/tablets/mini's and handheld consoles. All of these devices are getting to the point where thier features and abilities overlap so they are going to survive by what point they emphasis the most. For devices like the 3DS and the Vita it will be games and it is made obvious by the design of the systems.

games and price. Tablet/iphone users don't give a shite about technical capabilities on a handheld, they have what they need right now and videogame companies have to go the extra furlong to retake some of that market. Nintendo has done it, cutting the price and securing some big exclusives, plus it has the advantage of hugely popular first party titles, and it still isn't enough for the West. Vita is bombing hard and people's perception of the machine isnt going to change anytime soon if they don't do something drastic as soon as yesterday

 

[noobasuar]

Speak for yourself. For my needs, Sony has plenty coming in the next year that will keep me happy until the next gen arrives.

Well I'm interested in games with tight mechanics and interesting game-play which I just don't feel there are many of on the Ps3. I feel like they tried to push graphics over gameplay and that just not something appealing to me. The only game that I feel like I'm missing out on the Ps3 is Ratchet and Clank which is no surprise cause I think Insomniac is a fantastic company.

 

[sleepykyo]

I think final specs and a very tempting price would be a good start. The problem is can Sony afford a huge loss-leader model again? What if MS out-prices them on performance to cost?

Funnily enough, this is why I am in Sony am doomed crowd. Trying to appease developers by reaching similar hardware as the 720 instead of making it similar to the WiiU just means another round of Microsoft offering better hardware at a lower price, getting better 3rd party support and having the superior first party output. The PS4 is going to be an obsolete system before it even launched.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Funnily enough, this is why I am in Sony am doomed crowd. Trying to appease developers by reaching similar hardware as the 720 instead of making it similar to the WiiU just means another round of Microsoft offering better hardware at a lower price, getting better 3rd party support and having the superior first party output. The PS4 is going to be an obsolete system before it even launched.

I think this may be the first post I've ever read on here that says that MS has a superior first party to Sony

edit: May have misread. Output as in quality, numbers or sales?

 

[meta4]

Funnily enough, this is why I am in Sony am doomed crowd. Trying to appease developers by reaching similar hardware as the 720 instead of making it similar to the WiiU just means another round of Microsoft offering better hardware at a lower price, getting better 3rd party support and having the superior first party output. The PS4 is going to be an obsolete system before it even launched.

LMAO!

 

[flattie]

Well I'm interested in games with tight mechanics and interesting game-play which I just don't feel there are many of on the Ps3. I feel like they tried to push graphics over gameplay and that just not something appealing to me. The only game that I feel like I'm missing out on the Ps3 is Ratchet and Clank which is no surprise cause I think Insomniac is a fantastic company.

Your hobby, your opinion. But I don't recognise your description of Sony's games being built around visuals alone. And for my money Ratchet and Clank is one of the shallower experiences you're likely to find in Sony's roster.

Puppeteer and Tearaway are both games that look to be merging a distinctive visual style with some interesting new play features. As for tight mechanics, I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I found Uncharted and Wipeout felt fairly tight and expect Last of Us to be pretty sharp too. Sony have published some gems this gen and have a few more to offer yet. More importantly [for me], they are the only company of the three that are actively pushing big new IPs this late in the cycle. Nothing from Nintendo and nothing from Microsoft.

 

[sleepykyo]

I think this may be the first post I've ever read on here that says that MS has a superior first party to Sony

edit: May have misread. Output as in quality, numbers or sales?

Output as in Halo. I actually like Sony's first party output more, but Halo is still bigger than most of them combined.

LMAO!

Which part is funny? Are you really disputing Microsoft's ability to undercut the PS4?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It seemed to be in a right enough place to do what was necessary to ensure PS3's relevance and market success despite a cacophony of initial setbacks. Something like what happened with PS3 could have sunk other companies, in terms of their motivation or corporate (parental) support of gaming endeavours, but if anything Sony doubled down. They did shake up SCE but the corporate commitment was unwavering. And Sony corp's management today is likely to feel even more favourably toward gaming initiatives with Kaz's ascension.

So assuming the market has not fundamentally shifted, I think the corporate context is there to ensure PS4 is a success in the market in at least as much as PS3 was - in so far as I believe Sony is as committed as ever to the market and to doing whatever is necessary to maintain that business.

(If we're talking about corporate context for profitability on the platform - well, there has been big shifts in SCE's cost base since PS3 launch, so I would think things are in a better position now in that regard than then)

Sony did manage to correct a lot of early mistakes with the PS3 and for that they should be commended. However with Vita they made a whole slew of new mistakes that must be corrected. I don't think this can be ignored in looking forward to PS4.

Vita was conceptualized under Kaz' watch. Now granted, a portable cannot be directly compared to a home console, however I think it's discouraging as it shows that they are reacting to the market instead of being forward thinking.

 

[Canis lupus]

Funnily enough, this is why I am in Sony am doomed crowd. Trying to appease developers by reaching similar hardware as the 720 instead of making it similar to the WiiU just means another round of Microsoft offering better hardware at a lower price, getting better 3rd party support and having the superior first party output. The PS4 is going to be an obsolete system before it even launched.

Are you serious with this post?

 

[Gaogaogao]

hopefully their advantage comes in the form of having the simplest cpu architecture to develop for.

 

[meta4]

If you wanna talk about internal factors, one of those recent "Sony doomed" articles went at length talking about how much pull the individual engineers have within the company. Sony got to where it was today because those engineers were allowed to do what they though was necessary to push forward and innovate. The article implies that they've gotten somewhat arrogant, that infighting and competition between the engineers has been a factor in Sony's lack of synergy, and that the new CEO (may have been the last one actually) has fought them trying to push forward the idea that "it's about content not just tech."

I think the Vita might represent a lot of it. If Sony marketed that thing right it could've basically been a 4" tablet with buttons. Why isn't Sony's own eBook store available on the Vita? Why did Sony then go and release their own separate eReader? Where's the rest of the third party software support?

Whether or not they get in the right place may very well depend on if those high up at Sony can break that cycle and get all the different divisions to work together. Sony has its hands in so many media pies that it could use to the PS4's benefit, but it's like the people actually building the machines don't know that.

If you wanna talk external factors, I think part of that, like the PS3's initial game library, is due to some factors that Sony simply didn't see coming. They probably assumed that the Japanese third party support would just jump from the PS2 on to the PS3, but they probably didn't anticipate the coming domination of western developers who are more friendly to Microsoft, or Japan's overall hesitation to transition to the new consoles. I honestly think that's what hurt the PS3 the most.

Sony's first party games are good and all, but the problem is that most of them don't lead, they follow. The OP noted how a lot of what they've done this gen is just following behind others, and I think that applies to a lot of their games too. Their games won't sell as much as Halo because none of them are as monumental or influential to the industry as Halo. Killzone and Resistance just look like more shooters. Uncharted is great but it didn't create a new phenomenon in gaming like Gears did. The closest thing a Sony platform has had to this is Monster Hunter in Japan on the PSP and how much it changed the market over there. Other than that, Sony really didn't get any killer apps this gen, and unless their first party studios strike gold I don't know if they will next gen either.

Gears did not create any new phenomenon. It sells around the same ball park as Uncharted now and lol at the following part.I dont think ND gives a rat's backside about Gears and could care less. They make multi million selling franchises that are critically acclaimed and continue to make new IP's every generation. GT sells way more than Forza. GOW sells more than any other hack and slash game. Nothing comes close. LBP is following who's footsteps exactly? Heavy Rain which sold more than Alan Wake followed whom exactly? The problem with these posts is no one backs up anything with facts. Now what sells on 360 besides Halo and Gears? I guess its because MS does not lead but they follow. Am I right?

Output as in Halo. I actually like Sony's first party output more, but Halo is still bigger than most of them combined.



Which part is funny? Are you really disputing Microsoft's ability to undercut the PS4?

So you think one game is going to change MS fortunes and defeat Sony. By your logic MS is doomed because GT is bigger than most MS exclusives combined. Lets face it - Only Halo and Gears for MS and GT and UC for Sony are the top tier category. The rest of MS exclusives are not in anyway special with regard to sales. I am pretty sure GOW outsells most of whatever MS has to offer.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Output as in Halo.

Halo will be a juggernaut no matter what. MS could release a PS2 with a new Halo game and it'd be a system seller. There's not really anything Sony can do about that, so they compete with a variety of franchises. Obviously they'd rather have that one franchise they can rely on year after year, but I personally think that things like that happen due to circumstance more than intention. Sony might get lucky. They probably won't. Either way, I don't think you can really blame them for not having anything equal to Halo


On topic, launch with Monster Hunter, UC4, GoW4, GT6 and The Last Guardian. Early success ensured

 

[KillerTravis]

LMAO!

If the 720 is cheaper and has about the same capabilities as PS4 (like this gen), I don't see what advantage they would have over Microsoft

 

[i-Lo]

I guess time will only tell.

Are you serious with this post?

A topic like this is to crazies what shit is to flies.

 

[sleepykyo]

If the 720 is cheaper and has about the same capabilities as PS4 (like this gen), I don't see what advantage they would have over Microsoft

Exactly.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Where the hell did this idea that game consoles are on their way out come from? That attitude is so annoying. Compare total gaming console sales of current gen to last gen and my guess is they are the same or more. Facebook and apps will never replace console games because they are not substitutes.

 

[gofreak]

Sony did manage to correct a lot of early mistakes with the PS3 and for that they should be commended. However with Vita they made a whole slew of new mistakes that must be corrected. I don't think this can be ignored in looking forward to PS4.

I'm of the opinion that Vita's situation has as much to do with a change in market fundamentals that may not be as relevant to the home consoles.

If Sony made a primary mistake with Vita it was in misgauging the pace at which dedicated game handhelds had turned from something of interest to monied young adults to something of interest primarily to younger kids...at least here in the West. Mistake number 2 was a complacency about success in Japan motivating a carryover of PSP support among devs in that region. They needed to get out and sign explicit deals, something Nintendo latterly realised.

In respect to hardware though, I think they did fine (the 'mistake' of the initial budget aside...in pitching it to the same crowd as pitched to PSP, the gadget-crowd-price-point). The financial side seems sound, the r&d cost base seems to have been extremely trim, the ongoing business costs seem relatively low compared to previous Sony systems at a similar timeframe. The out-of-the-gate game support from Sony themselves was strong. The dev environment and OS is fine. I laugh when people talk about delayed PS1 support or the like being some fundamental issue with Vita. That's a mixup of causation and correlation...people pick over every little thing like it's a major contributory factor, just in order to rationalise what has happened, but I think it may be as simple as these couple of rather fundamental issues. The wheels came off the truck when the muted market response reinforced third party developer's preference for other investments (mobile), which was got Vita into an unvirtuous cycle of a lack of support feeding poor market response feeding a lack of support...etc.

But on pitching, whilst I think criticism of not forecasting how a dedicated handheld should be pitched in today's market is applicable, I also think they deserve kudos for not being extremely protectionist of the business and being open minded about alternatives. It was one symptom of the open-minded thinking I mentioned before, that along with Vita (and before its lack of success was apparent), they were already executing on a plan to move into a smart device games platform. Its story will be told over the next few years, but its shows an adaptability. Adaptability to changes is good and that there doesn't seem to be significant internal resistance to change is a positive reflection of the 'corporate culture'...although I think the trick for Sony is to try and get ahead of the next shift and to lead it.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Sony did manage to correct a lot of early mistakes with the PS3 and for that they should be commended. However with Vita they made a whole slew of new mistakes that must be corrected. I don't think this can be ignored in looking forward to PS4.

it's also worth noting how many things they got right with the Vita and showed that they learned from a lot of their mistakes of the past. namely using readily available tech inside as opposed to frankenparts that are difficult to manufacture cheaply, much less develop for. they made things simple and intuitive, made it a cinch for developers to make their games for, and made it forward-thinking as far as how upgradeable it is moving on into the next gen. it can load apps, multitask, and deliver a much wider scope of entertainment types to the user. (ie: PS Mobile type stuff, smartphone game ports, PS2.5-ish tier games, and PSN game ports.)

you're definitely right though that Vita introduced it's new list of slip ups from sony. i think the biggest factor right now though is marketing. it's getting games and it's price would be easy to swallow if it included more, but none of that matters unless sony actually tells the public that this thing is here and it's awesome. sad.

 

[Byakuya769]

Exactly.

Yep, because there weren't any particular hardware decisions that made the ps3 more expensive.

Smh.

 

[jvm]

No.

This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Complex Questions®.

Seriously, though, Sony's not had a solid plan for executing anything in the video game market since before the PSP. The PSP just happened to be a strong enough piece of hardware that it was successful for a brief time (speaking about the West here) and then hobbled along for a bit until basically falling apart.

Sony's never understood the idea of a solid slate of network services. They thought they did (they were announced in April 2000 as part of the PS2 launch, never happened) and kept putting off doing the hard work to make it happen. Then they were beat to market, and never caught up. The PS+ system is a pretty inventive idea, but it may be too little, too late. Lots of consumers are already stuck in Microsoft's service, and it would take a tremendous even to unstick them.

Meanwhile, they're still riding the hardware escalation curve, not realizing that that won't really cut it anymore. They needed to spin the PS branch off on its own, cut it free from the pressures on Sony's dead wood segments, and let it become something much more than it has been for the past 10 years. That might have brought in lots of talent and allowed some disruptive plans to bear fruit, but instead they've kept hoping they could imitate their way to success.

Sadlly, they've not even been able to imitate successfully.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I'm of the opinion that Vita's situation has as much to do with a change in market fundamentals that may not be as relevant to the home consoles.

If Sony made a primary mistake with Vita it was in misgauging the pace at which dedicated game handhelds had turned from something of interest to monied young adults to something of interest primarily to younger kids...at least here in the West. Mistake number 2 was a complacency about success in Japan motivating a carryover of PSP support among devs in that region. They needed to get out and sign explicit deals, something Nintendo latterly realised.

In respect to hardware though, I think they did fine (the 'mistake' of the initial budget aside...in pitching it to the same crowd as pitched to PSP, the gadget-crowd-price-point). The financial side seems sound, the r&d cost base seems to have been extremely trim, the ongoing business costs seem relatively low compared to previous Sony systems at a similar timeframe. The out-of-the-gate game support from Sony themselves was strong. The dev environment and OS is fine. I laugh when people talk about delayed PS1 support or the like being some fundamental issue with Vita. That's a mixup of causation and correlation. The wheels came off the truck when the muted market response reinforced third party developer's preference for other investments (mobile), which was got Vita into an unvirtuous cycle of a lack of support feeding poor market response feeding a lack of support...etc.

But on pitching, whilst I think criticism of not forecasting how a dedicated handheld should be pitched in today's market is applicable, I also think they deserve kudos for not being extremely protectionist of the business and being open minded about alternatives. It was one symptom of the open-minded thinking I mentioned before, that along with Vita (and before its lack of success was apparent), they were already executing on a plan to move into a smart device games platform. Its story will be told over the next few years, but its shows an adaptability. Adaptability to changes is good and that there doesn't seem to be significant internal resistance to change is a positive reflection of the 'corporate culture'...although I think the trick for Sony is to try and get ahead of the next shift and to lead it.

I agree that this is the tug. I agree with you that Sony has been adaptable to change, however it's often after the fact. That's not going to fly long term in the console arena where you have two fierce competitors angling for every opportunity.

 

[sleepykyo]

Yep, because there weren't any particular hardware decisions that made the ps3 more expensive.

Smh.

How is Sony supposed to undercut the 720? Microsoft has demonstrated both the ability and willingness to bleed out a company on multiple occasions.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Two things that'll help:

Stop chatting shite in interviews, be more Yoshida-like
Advertise effectively

 

[Grayman]

Sony's corporate culture is a shambles right now, and has been for years. Once a pioneer in practically everything they've touched, Sony has lost ground in every facet of their business endeavors, up to and including their once dominant gaming division.

At one time Sony was at the forefront of electronics technology - they were automatically associated with the best in electronics, and their decision making and relationships with developers and third parties with the original Playstation is still heralded as the reason for the platform's monumental success.

Fast forward to today. and Sony appears to be in shambles. They have been eclipsed by Samsung as the paramount of electronics technology, and ceded their once iron grip on the videogame front to Nintendo and Microsoft. There are many reasons for this, but I think chief among them are Sony's lack of focus and direction.

Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none. The Move is another - a "me too" knee jerk reaction that lacked any discernible foundation besides what already existed. Even PSN is a reaction to the mega popular XBOX Live. Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

I focus on their culture because that is what primarily drives a corporation and their business operations. Looking at Sony's internal structure with the brief windows we have, they appear to be a massive bureaucracy with no focused leadership.

My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?

Currently I see Sony's culture as a follower that is not doing better. A copy cat. They are not strategically leading in any industry. Maybe the vita has been written off as a lost cause and they are just blowing money to save face by staying in the game for a bit.

Sony failed to adapt to the ipod and smart phones and has now missed the tablet as well. While the company offers digital distribution of media content and gaming it is far from the leaders in each segment.

Their gaming software areas have taken large investments to make minor impacts in sales and the overall "console war"

Sony is a gigantic company that will stay around in some form for a long time but they are far from thriving in any market.

 

[Respawn]

Sony's corporate culture is a shambles right now, and has been for years. Once a pioneer in practically everything they've touched, Sony has lost ground in every facet of their business endeavors, up to and including their once dominant gaming division.

At one time Sony was at the forefront of electronics technology - they were automatically associated with the best in electronics, and their decision making and relationships with developers and third parties with the original Playstation is still heralded as the reason for the platform's monumental success.

Fast forward to today. and Sony appears to be in shambles. They have been eclipsed by Samsung as the paramount of electronics technology, and ceded their once iron grip on the videogame front to Nintendo and Microsoft. There are many reasons for this, but I think chief among them are Sony's lack of focus and direction.

Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none. The Move is another - a "me too" knee jerk reaction that lacked any discernible foundation besides what already existed. Even PSN is a reaction to the mega popular XBOX Live. Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

I focus on their culture because that is what primarily drives a corporation and their business operations. Looking at Sony's internal structure with the brief windows we have, they appear to be a massive bureaucracy with no focused leadership.

My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?

Good points Deacon but don't drop them in the hole just yet. They still produce tech that is second to none. You may not experience it or may never use it but they provide invaluable service to Hollywood producers and product manufacturers with their chips, camera lenses etc. Their HD sets can still run rings around Samsung when their best is put against Samsung's best.
Also not sure what you mean by PSN is a reaction to Live. What did you have in mind?
We all know their will be a change with PS4. Just by what we know of the parts alone and who their using shows the change in the company's internal thinking.

Currently I see Sony's culture as a follower that is not doing better. A copy cat. They are not strategically leading in any industry. Maybe the vita has been written off as a lost cause and they are just blowing money to save face by staying in the game for a bit.

Sony failed to adapt to the ipod and smart phones and has now missed the tablet as well. While the company offers digital distribution of media content and gaming it is far from the leaders in each segment.

Their gaming software areas have taken large investments to make minor impacts in sales and the overall "console war"

Sony is a gigantic company that will stay around in some form for a long time but they are far from thriving in any market.

Dont agree but I can respect your feelings.

 

[pestul]

I'm not sure MS is in the right place either based on the early indicators of Windows 8 / Metro interest levels / dev input. That said, Xbox is now a very formidable brand for MS in its own right.

They better not both enter nextgen with the usual arrogance or Nintendo will dominate again.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Speak for yourself. For my needs, Sony has plenty coming in the next year that will keep me happy until the next gen arrives.

Yeah that comment really was absurd, Sony is far and away the best of the three in terms of hardcore first party content and its not even close.

 

[Canis lupus]

Currently I see Sony's culture as a follower that is not doing better. A copy cat. They are not strategically leading in any industry.

Uh they are leading in camera sensors.

 

[gofreak]

I agree that this is the tug. I agree with you that Sony has been adaptable to change, however it's often after the fact. That's not going to fly long term in the console arena where you have two fierce competitors angling for every opportunity.

Adaptability can help you muddle through, but for market leadership, I agree, you have to spot the shift and get ahead of it, preferably on your own. But I think it's also true of any competitor. I think Sony's become a little bit hungrier for a change and more open minded. I think they are quite amenable to platform stewardship changing from holding the keys to a box to holding access to a service that's agnostic to a box. That seems to be a shift they are eying but it may be a longer term play rather than something that will see a leadership position emerge within a single generation. In the more traditional arena of console platform stewardship I think Sony does know the rules, but when an arena is mature and the rules are also well known by everyone else, it's much harder to talk about leadership vs market split.

This is awfully strategic talk though. On a more short term tactical level, I do agree with what some are saying about marketing for example.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Sony needs to streamline their product and services. It´s already started to happen but it needs much more integration.

 

[AgentChris]

If SCE continues to invest in studios like Naughty Dog and PD, they have my money.

 

[Bgamer90]

Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

Man, this is soooo true.

 

[H_Prestige]

If the 720 is cheaper and has about the same capabilities as PS4 (like this gen), I don't see what advantage they would have over Microsoft

Is the ps4 going to be using Super BluRay or something? Or a CELL/RSX combo built in? Don't see how MS will have a price advantage unless Sony goes batshit insane. I don't think that will happen because vita is pretty cheaply manufactured and simple design.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Adaptability can help you muddle through, but for market leadership, I agree, you have to spot the shift and get ahead of it, preferably on your own. But I think it's also true of any competitor. I think Sony's become a little bit hungrier for a change and more open minded. I think they are quite amenable to platform stewardship changing from holding the keys to a box to holding access to a service that's agnostic to a box. That seems to be a shift they are eying but it may be a longer term play rather than something that will see a leadership position emerge within a single generation. In the more traditional arena of console platform stewardship I think Sony does know the rules, but when an arena is mature and the rules are also well known by everyone else, it's much harder to talk about leadership vs market split.

Are you talking about a Steam or Origin like service?

 

[Canis lupus]

Sony needs to streamline their product and services. It´s already started to happen but it needs much more integration.

One Sony philosophy right.

 

[Bgamer90]

Yeah that comment really was absurd, Sony is far and away the best of the three in terms of hardcore first party content and its not even close.

For what? This year or next?

For this Holiday season, in terms of retail exclusives it's...:

PS3- Little Big Planet Karting, PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale, Wonderbook

Xbox- Halo 4, Forza Horizon, Dance Central 3 (and possibly some other Kinect games I don't know about)

It's obvious as to which one's more "core oriented". 2013 will be different since the PS3 will have about 3-4 exclusives while the 360 will only have Gears but I'm expecting the next Xbox to come out in 2013 as well.


Anyway, if you mean "the best" in terms of quantity, then yeah, sure. But in terms of quality that's all opinion and based on how well MS/Xbox has been doing, it seems like a good number of people prefer quality over quantity, that is, just as long as they are getting their favorite popular 3rd party games as well.

 

[gofreak]

Are you talking about a Steam or Origin like service?

I mean platforms that don't line up 1:1 with a single device or box. That can straddle devices, where the platform isn't the hardware and vice versa as has been traditionally the case with home consoles. Where it's platform 'as a service' vs platform 'as a box'. The idea of something like cloud gaming is potentially something that is extremely disruptive to Sony's traditional console business in the long term, but they seem open minded about disrupting themselves before someone else does it to them. See also PSM, which is - as an idea - quite disruptive vs the traditional handheld model or, indeed, even Sony's traditional link between their own hardware and platform. Or in a smaller way at the moment, something like PS+ - I'm not sure anyone else has yet dabbled with the idea of content as something you subscribe to as opposed to something you solely purchase in discrete chunks, but it's an idea that could be pretty significant in some parts of the market in the future.

(This is not to say, by the way, that any of these things are necessarily 'the next shift' or keys to market leadership - I'm just saying they are pretty different ideas about what it is to be a platform holder, and things Sony appears to have eyes open to...their interest may tell us something about Sony's attitude to change which can tell us something about 'corporate culture')

 

[michaelius]

GAF sony hate is really funny - they started with console 200$ more expensive and with 1 year delay to finish nearly at the parity with xbox and people think PS4 won't be a success when it's launched at similar price point and at similar time ?

 

[staticneuron]

games and price. Tablet/iphone users don't give a shite about technical capabilities on a handheld, they have what they need right now and videogame companies have to go the extra furlong to retake some of that market. Nintendo has done it, cutting the price and securing some big exclusives, plus it has the advantage of hugely popular first party titles, and it still isn't enough for the West. Vita is bombing hard and people's perception of the machine isnt going to change anytime soon if they don't do something drastic as soon as yesterday

The casuals will be forever lost and it is a waste of time for Nintendo or Sony to try to attract those satisfied with 99 cent games. The idea that the vast majority of thier bases in the past were uber casual users is still unbelievable. And even if such the crowd between Nintendo and Sony are further apart in that focus.

Nintendo is Nintendo, They have dominated the handheld market for 20+years. They aren't going to lose their following. Chances are gamers have simply introduced more of their friends and their children to them and fans of franchises were born. Third party titles on a Nintendo handheld does nothing really in comparison to a first party announcement.

As with any and every region. All that matters is games. And for for sony (unlike Nintendo or MS) they have to rely and a library of succesful titles instead of a few mega sucessful franchises. That is pretty much how it has been for a long time.

For what? This year or next?

For this Holiday season, in terms of retail exclusives it's...:

PS3- Little Big Planet Karting, PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale, Wonderbook

Xbox- Halo 4, Forza Horizon, Dance Central 3 (and possibly some other Kinect games I don't know about)

It's obvious as to which one's more "core oriented". 2013 will be different since the PS3 will have about 3-4 exclusives while the 360 will only have Gears but I'm expecting the next Xbox to come out in 2013 as well.


Anyway, if you mean "the best" in terms of quantity, then yeah, sure. But in terms of quality that's all opinion and based on how well MS/Xbox has been doing, it seems like a good number of people prefer quality over quantity, that is, just as long as they are getting their favorite popular 3rd party games as well.

Since his comment was very broad one could take it as library overall. Sure if you narrow it down to the next few months you may have risen a point (that no one really cares about) but if you step back and look at first party offerings through out each consoles life than Sony has delivered and seemingly will continue to deliver.

And that is why I really don't buy people who are still down and the PS3 and talk about "faith" in Sony. After owning all three systems and playing the most of the major titles for each I tink Sony has lived up to its rep and look forward to the PS4.

 

[Grayman]

Good points Deacon but don't drop them in the hole just yet. They still produce tech that is second to none. You may not experience it or may never use it but they provide invaluable service to Hollywood producers and product manufacturers with their chips, camera lenses etc. Their HD sets can still run rings around Samsung when their best is put against Samsung's best.
Also not sure what you mean by PSN is a reaction to Live. What did you have in mind?
We all know their will be a change with PS4. Just by what we know of the parts alone and who their using shows the change in the company's internal thinking.



Dont agree but I can respect your feelings.

I do not know about their hollywood products but for consumer goods they have not been at the forefront since selling the PS2 as a games device and dvd player.

Blu ray in the PS3 was not enough because online streaming was the next movement. Being in Canada I may be out of line because here their video store came out fairly late and seems to be video on demand which I have gotten from my cable provider at the same price for many years.

They have online movies but are no netflix, they probably have music sales but it is no itunes, digital distribution but not like steam, they do not have a portable music player, smart phone, or tablet, the vita provides some functions but is not quite there to make the sale as a replacement. Sony has missed a whole social leap in technology where cell phones and other devices filled in one of the niches that was exclusive to handheld gaming devices in the past. while offering the big games the vita should be punching up at the 7 inch tablets and trying to offer an app ecosystem like that.

 

[Bgamer90]

GAF sony hate is really funny - they started with console 200$ more expensive and with 1 year delay to finish nearly at the parity with xbox and people think PS4 won't be a success when it's launched at similar price point and at similar time ?

What's to say that it will be launched at a similar price point at a similar time as the new Xbox?

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Didn't they just promote Kaz? As ling as he's calling the shots Sony is screwed.

At least they had enough sense to dump the other moron.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah that comment really was absurd, Sony is far and away the best of the three in terms of hardcore first party content and its not even close.

Maybe against Microsoft, but Nintendo and Sony are very much tied on this front. The amount of Nintendo games released in a single year is huge.



Anyway, I'm in the camp that says the PS4 is the last Sony system. Too many mess ups this gen and I don't see them not repeating them since they manage to repeat them every single chance they get.

 

[Canis lupus]

What's to say that it will be launched at a similar price point at a similar time?

Why wouldn't it? Unless one of them goes all out with motion controls and compromise on the graphics front to come out with an affordable price.

 

[phosphor112]

I saw a Vita advert earlier during the colts dolphins game!

I know! Right!??

 

[Canis lupus]

I saw a Vita advert earlier during the colts dolphins game!

I know! Right!??

Thats crazy!

 

[noobasuar]

Yeah that comment really was absurd, Sony is far and away the best of the three in terms of hardcore first party content and its not even close.

Idk how its absurd to think that Nintendo has more of a hardcore first party line up than Sony. When I think of hardcore titles from Sony I can only think of a handful of titles such as Wipeout, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo....and that's about it. It's a little sad when the games I want to buy a Ps3 for are mostly HD Collections.

 

[Taurus]

Maybe against Microsoft, but Nintendo and Sony are very much tied on this front. The amount of Nintendo games released in a single year is huge.

Dude, Nintendo is teh kiddy, not hardcore!

Spoiler

Agreed.

Anyway, I'm in the camp that says the PS4 is the last Sony system. Too many mess ups this gen and I don't see them not repeating them since they manage to repeat them every single chance they get.

Agreed here as well.

 

[Bgamer90]

Why wouldn't it? Unless one of them goes all out with motion controls and compromise on the graphics front to come out with an affordable price.

So you feel that Sony has learned from their mistakes with the PS3 early this gen?

I don't know... while I hope that they have, due to recent examples such as the PS VITA and the recent increase in price of the PS3 (with the revision), I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 ends up being the most expensive console out of the bunch.

Not saying that it WILL happen; just saying that I wouldn't be surprised and that I still believe there's a chance of it happening.