Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
How does that change anything? Why would she have this response to something she has fought at least twice before?
Other M deserves better
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How does that change anything? Why would she have this response to something she has fought at least twice before?
Neff
Member
I doubt there's anyone who thought the ridiculous load times, repeated ram-wiping and bugs added to the game in any way. The game is broken at a fundamental level. Fortunately for Other M, whatever you may think of its gameplay or story, it's at least competently programmed and engineered.
Yeah I remember in Prime 2 when U-Mos shot Samus in the back and she acted as if it were a heroic thing.
That image makes 10 points, 5 of which are purely subjective and most of the rest are loaded with subjectivity. There are also objectively false statements like it not having any new mechanics while praising prime 1 which had barely any new power ups.
Sonic is objectively bad; it's broken, the machanics are worse than previous games, and the story is completely throwaway and nonsensical; full of inconsistencies and incontinuities. It's false equivalence and you know it.
She has PTSD. It's not a normal mental condition. Something unexpected triggers an inasive memory that forces you to relive it.
I find it kind of amusing that you took my post seriously when it was obviously in jest.
ThaddeusMcGee
Member
Only Metroid I didn't finish. I actually liked the 2d-ish gameplay and difficulty. But I couldn't get past the bizarre dialogue, story, and Samus' characterization. Not my cup of tea.
More Metroid Prime please, less exposition. Or, more 2.5D sidecrolling Metroid a la Super/Fusion.
More Metroid Prime please, less exposition. Or, more 2.5D sidecrolling Metroid a la Super/Fusion.
That's a tough line to walk, honestly. There are also rules against backseat modding but nobody came in here and stuck you in the ban-box either.
Doctor Decimate
Member
if any reaction to this game is disgusting, it's calling it the best game of 2010, let alone the best game on the Wii. if it's possible to be objectively wrong, this is it.
Doctor Decimate
Member
you are aware of the games that came out in 2010, right?
Doctor Decimate
Member
don't call it the best game of 2010 if that's all you bought in 2010 :|
WrenchNinja
Member
There was a little game called Super Mario Galaxy 2. Maybe youve never heard of it.
Neff
Member
Well, I already did. Sorry about that.
Put me in the camp that prefers Galaxy 1 over 2.
And I prefer Other M over Galaxy 1, fantastic as it is.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
You're ignoring the question. Why is Samus having an episode, if it wasn't triggered the past two times? Obviously Metroid and Super Metroid weren't into Samus's character enough to bother, but you can't just make stuff like that up. If the scene took place in a flashback there might be an argument, but at this point Samus is supposed to have killed Ridley twice without ever flinching. You can't just decide Samus has a PTSD episode when she has already not only faced, but literally shot, killed, and exploded her fear TWICE.
I liked Other M. It was an average take on the Metroid formula, but it never actively offended me either. I think of it more as an experiment, with some tests turning out good (I think the combat was honestly an improvement over Prime in some ways) and others bad (the exploration was not nearly as meaningful as its predecessors). What worked seemed enough to sustain a 8 hour game; what didn't wasn't enough to deter me from finishing it.
So I'm sort of in the middle on this one: I can understand why the series pedigree inspires such a vitriolic reaction to OM, but I'm also pretty annoyed by the some of the reductive arguments used to denounce it ("the baby" nonsense). The entire discussion around it has gotten pretty tiresome, to be honest. It's like MGS4-level at this point.
So I'm sort of in the middle on this one: I can understand why the series pedigree inspires such a vitriolic reaction to OM, but I'm also pretty annoyed by the some of the reductive arguments used to denounce it ("the baby" nonsense). The entire discussion around it has gotten pretty tiresome, to be honest. It's like MGS4-level at this point.
Like the hat?
Banned
I took the Ridley thing as her being shocked to see him because while she had defeated him numerous times before, the events of super metroid was when she thought he was officially dead, and not just defeated for a time.
I didn't ignore the question. He caught her off guard this time. The other times she fought him she was expecting to encounter him long before she did. He surprised her at the start of Super and he beat her. In this game she thought she'd seen the last of him when she blew up the entire planet he was on; she says so in the intro.
There's a little thing called almost every other game Nintendo made for Wii.
All better than Other M
Teehee
Teehee
WrenchNinja
Member
Wow. Well okay, yknow, no accounting for taste and what not.
Harimau kecil
Neo Member
I liked this game. Would definitely get the sequel, if there ever is any. Gameplay was fun, atmosphere was pretty good and I only care about story in a game if I like it.
I like the three Metroid Prime games as well, but never could get into the 2D Metroid games.
I like the three Metroid Prime games as well, but never could get into the 2D Metroid games.
If there is a choice between authorization and finding power-ups, yet the flow in terms of gameplay would be unaffected, why not just choose the option that would not take the audience out of the experience by making characters pants-over-head idiotic to adhere to the authorization scheme?
Hell, this goes beyond the Varia Suit; there is little logical reason for Adam to wall-off exploration power-ups when he explicitly voiced that he was worried about authorization more from the standpoint of Samus being too heavily armed. He sends her off to explore the ship anyway, so why did this perfect military leader fail to authorize Samus's exploration abilities (when failing to do so would be completely counter-productive to why he even brought Samus on the mission to begin with)? This isn't even a hindsight scenario; it's basic reasoning that would not have led to his entire squad getting killed.
And not-withstanding story reasons, there are also inherent game issues when the game cannot even get the rules of its ability authorization correct in crucial moments (In case point, Power Bomb + Penultimate final boss).
It is not so much the concept of authorization that people hate, but how it was handled poorly on a fundamental level in both story and gameplay.
Like the hat?
Banned
The power bomb was the absolute stupidest thing in the entire game. I was stuck there for like half an hour. Had to look up what the hell to do.
Having Samus not have her powers for no reason would make her an idiot for leaving them behind, plus you'd have to explain why chozo power suit upgrades are hidden on a federation ship.
Adam said he needed to analyze all of her power ups to ensure they weren't dangerous. Maybe he was afraid the varia suit gives off radiation that could give his team cancer, who knows.
I know this crazy, but maybe Other M deserves less hate AND the franchise deserves a better game.
I enjoy Metroid for the atmosphere, the exploration and the gameplay. Other M didn't have a huge amount of exploration, but I really felt - and yes, this includes the Wiimote swap, which I had absolutely no trouble with especially as the game slows down time to allow you to adjust during the swap - the gameplay was utterly fantastic. And those graphics and 60 FPS - completely gorgeous.
A good story would have made me love it more, for sure, but as somebody whose tied favourite game of all time is Super Metroid, what they did with the story in Other M had absolutely no negative effect on my experience whilst playing the game. I'm not hugely invested in Samus Aran's character. I'm hugely invested, emotionally, in the Metroid franchise's gameplay - that's what I value, that's what I crave. And they didn't screw it up. Want to see a screw-up? Just look at Metroid Prime 3: overly long, repetitive, grind-worthy boss battles, overpowered enemies obstructing the endgame exploration (where you are supposed to be a superpowered Samus, plowing through) and a total lack of flow in the map design. I'm incredibly glad they made Other M and for perspective, my ranking for the series is as follows:
1. Super Metroid
2. Metroid Prime
3. Metroid: Zero Mission
4. Metroid: Other M
5. Metroid Fusion
6. Metroid Prime 2
7. Metroid
8. Metroid Prime 3
9. Metroid 2
I think if you're a Metroid fan, Other M is definitely worth a try. You just might love it to pieces as I did.
A good story would have made me love it more, for sure, but as somebody whose tied favourite game of all time is Super Metroid, what they did with the story in Other M had absolutely no negative effect on my experience whilst playing the game. I'm not hugely invested in Samus Aran's character. I'm hugely invested, emotionally, in the Metroid franchise's gameplay - that's what I value, that's what I crave. And they didn't screw it up. Want to see a screw-up? Just look at Metroid Prime 3: overly long, repetitive, grind-worthy boss battles, overpowered enemies obstructing the endgame exploration (where you are supposed to be a superpowered Samus, plowing through) and a total lack of flow in the map design. I'm incredibly glad they made Other M and for perspective, my ranking for the series is as follows:
1. Super Metroid
2. Metroid Prime
3. Metroid: Zero Mission
4. Metroid: Other M
5. Metroid Fusion
6. Metroid Prime 2
7. Metroid
8. Metroid Prime 3
9. Metroid 2
I think if you're a Metroid fan, Other M is definitely worth a try. You just might love it to pieces as I did.
When considering that the only game that made a halfway decent excuse as to why she lost her powers was in Fusion, not having her powers would not be unexpected. With that said, this could be rectifiable quite easily. One idea off the top of my head is the Galactic Federation essentially regulating Samus; she takes bounties from the Galactic Federation primarily, but I doubt even they are going to let a WMD-equivalent roam the galaxy unfettered. Plus, Samus has voluntarily relinquished technology/advanced creatures to the Federation before for the pursuit of science, so why not some of her Power Suit components?
And if the Luminoth in Echoes serves as any indication, Samus can definitely interact with the upgrades of other species besides the Chozo. Thus, Chozo upgrades do not have to be on a Federation space ship, any highly advanced technology of a species would do. Hell, even the Space Pirates were trying to do shit with Chozo technology in Zero Mission at least.
Adam needing to analyze the Power Suit is fine... except he did not really take the opportunity to do so, assuming he even knows what the Power Suit can really do. He sees Samus fire one missile and he's like "NOPE, CAN'T BREATHE WITHOUT ME SAYING SO."
I remember there was one point in this very linear game that there was a big ice slope or some such, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get to the top. Turns out you have to go a few rooms back in order to get some enemies to spawn, kill them, and get a power up. This stumped me for quite a while. Why would I try going backwards to see if I missed something if just about every room has two exits - entrance and to the next room? And when I did finally think to go backwards, as if I had actually missed something and the game deserved more credit, enemies appear in a room to arbitrarily give me a power up? Ugh.
The scenes where you stood in one spot and had to find a certain object to scan were dumb too, and so were the places where you walked in slow-ass over the shoulder mode. The story is shitty and pointless. It adds nothing to the series that we didn't already know. Fusion made it quite clear that the Federation has no problems with experimenting on and cloning Metroids. What else is there to take away from this game? That Samus is a woman and has feelings?
The only thing I really liked about this game is how agile Samus is. That alone couldn't save it for me though. It's an uninteresting, boring chore to play through. Easily the worst Metroid game.
The scenes where you stood in one spot and had to find a certain object to scan were dumb too, and so were the places where you walked in slow-ass over the shoulder mode. The story is shitty and pointless. It adds nothing to the series that we didn't already know. Fusion made it quite clear that the Federation has no problems with experimenting on and cloning Metroids. What else is there to take away from this game? That Samus is a woman and has feelings?
The only thing I really liked about this game is how agile Samus is. That alone couldn't save it for me though. It's an uninteresting, boring chore to play through. Easily the worst Metroid game.
jaundicejuice
Member
Retro didn't get a free pass on anything. Dragona--a former mod who doesn't really post here any more, at least not that I've seen--and Anihawk, to name the two most prominent critics I can think of, would frequently tag team in threads to shit on the Prime trilogy with great glee. The point is, the Prime series has its fare share of detractors here, perhaps not as many as there are for Other M but then Other M is the most recent entry in the Metroid series and is, arguably, more flawed than any of the Retro made Metroid games.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
There's not been a single Metroid game on consoles I've enjoyed since Super Metroid. But Other M is a whole other world of awful. Prime is just boring.
This sums up my thoughts. Add in the outrageously crummy "Walk super slow down empty hallways" and Pixel Hunting sequences that feel like they came in from a shovelware game to things I hated. I remember there being a part where you have to do the slow walking thing across the same hallway like three times back to back. Abysmal. There are times when the narrative reasons for gameplay mechanics and sequences greatly impacted my enjoyment of them - like the infamous volcano level.
The music mostly being forgetful and the shitacular story are just piss-icing on top of the shit-cake the game already is.
What a load of bullshit. Yes, some of the sexism issues go away if Adam is female. But Adam *is* male, and Samus *is* female and was (mostly*) presented as being independent and strong before this game. The game's plot reduces her to a dependent, lovestruck little girl. It's the fact that it reduces her that makes the game blatantly sexist.
Are you under the impression that something can be considered not sexist just because it could have, through major changes to characterization, been made not sexist? Alien wouldn't be sci-fi if it were set in the english countryside in 1903 and the Alien was a wolf, so I guess it's not SF.
Also, just because they tried to rip off Aliens doesn't mean they did it well or even in a manner respectful to either series' core elements.
(*) Metroid Fusion and the Manga precipitated this problem, though. So it's not really Team Ninja's fault. The real problem is we finally find out what the people in charge of the game at Nintendo really think of Samus and discover that it's kind of reprehensible.
Personally, I don't think it's bad, just a mediocre Metroid game and a somewhat passable game in general. She moves like quicksilver in this iteration, but the enemies don't present much of a challenge at default, and the aggressive auto-aim and trivializing dodge/quick-charge counter erases what's left. No risk, but the resulting fights do look cool.
That leaves the story, which is, well, a story in a video game. Those START at 'bad' most of the time and this one's no different, so for me it's a non-factor. Cut scenes looked cool, though.
Music.
Huh.
I literally cannot remember any track but the Ridley battle theme.
On an off note, would like to see more of Samus and Adam and the GF working together in their past missions, because if they're going to focus more on story, as in this game and Fusion, may as well go whole hog, and maybe do proper backstory next time. It would have done wonders to prevent the Ridley freakout debacle if people knew ahead of time that the big bad evil space dragon killed her parents in front of her and later told her that he ate their bodies, a fact that no layperson outside of Japan would know.
That leaves the story, which is, well, a story in a video game. Those START at 'bad' most of the time and this one's no different, so for me it's a non-factor. Cut scenes looked cool, though.
Music.
Huh.
I literally cannot remember any track but the Ridley battle theme.
On an off note, would like to see more of Samus and Adam and the GF working together in their past missions, because if they're going to focus more on story, as in this game and Fusion, may as well go whole hog, and maybe do proper backstory next time. It would have done wonders to prevent the Ridley freakout debacle if people knew ahead of time that the big bad evil space dragon killed her parents in front of her and later told her that he ate their bodies, a fact that no layperson outside of Japan would know.
Kontergurke
Member
This has nothing to do with the question of wether MOM is a good game or not, but seeing as it wasn't mentioned yet in this thread, there is a game-breaking bug that prevents you from beating the game on that save file, so you'll have to start over. Ironically, the bug is triggered by trying to backtrack at a certain point in the game.
After reading the short essay on objectivity vs subjectivity Femmeworth posted a few pages ago, I tried to think about these arguments everyone makes that basically come down to "I liked the game, you didn't like it, so it's all subjective".
Obviously, if you like or dislike something, it's a matter of taste and can't be right or wrong (usually).
So, what would be helpful and more constructive to actual discussion is seperating the quantifiable properties of the game from your opinion on why you liked/hated/didn't mind them.
For example, just saying "The controls are bad" is not really helping.
After a short adjustment phase, I personally had no trouble executing any moves, even using missiles in the middle of a fight, and didn't feel handicapped by the omission of an analog stick.
(Though it certainly looked funny when Samus was taking sharp 90° turns all the time.)
But me saying "The controls are good" wouldn't be helpful either.
So, we should find an objective description that everyone (or most people) can agree upon and then add our personal feelings about them.
For example:
Objective: "The controls are unconventional"
Subjective: "After a short adjustment phase, I didn't mind them.
Subjective: "The first-person/3rd person switching felt too jarring to me"
Subjective: "I could never use missiles because you have to stand still to shoot them."
Subjective: "I would have preferred nunchuck controls because the sideways-wiimote feels uncomfortable to me/I like to have full 360° movement in 3D games/etc."
I'm too tired to type all arguments in this way now, but I hope some people will understand what I'm trying to say.
Doctor Decimate
Member
victreeb3l
Member
other m was a fantastic game, and a great entry to the metroid franchise. i found it fast and ferocious, exactly how samus aran was supposed to handle.
i hope we get a sequel or something, for the 3ds or what. it was fun as hell to play
get sakamoto the hell away from the franchise though
i hope we get a sequel or something, for the 3ds or what. it was fun as hell to play
get sakamoto the hell away from the franchise though
PowderedToast
Junior Member
i agree OP, other m is a fine game
you are a cool guy
you are a cool guy
If, keeping everything else about their relationship constant, you change their genders to be the same and sexism issues go away, then those weren't sexism to begin with. If the only reason that Samus cannot take orders from a male superior officer is because he is male, that is a sexist viewpoint.
She's still independent and strong; she makes every male in the game look very weak in comparison. But she works for the Galactic Federation, and Adam, being first to the scene, has authority over the situation. She has no choice but to work under his orders. Samus could have been a man, Adam could have been a woman; it wouldn't have changed the situation. The only thing that kept her from completely blowing apart the conspiracy was a small army of Galactic Federation troops.
Samus isn't in love with Adam. She sees him a parental figure, a respectable elder. Their relationship is an age dynamic, not gender. They had a falling out because Samus wanted to rescue Adam's brother and Adam chose to sacrifice his brother because he saved more lives that way. Believing that she had accomplished her life's work, Samus is reflecting on her past since she feels hollow. I'm sure you felt like that before; anticipating something and then feeling down once that something finally comes and passes. Samus trained her whole life for what she did at the end of Super Metroid, and now it's over and all she can do is think about the past and the future and wonder if it everything was right. Her relationship with Adam in Other M serves as a catalyst for her coming to terms with her past.
While having these reflections on the inside, they do not interfere with her performance as a walking WMD. Her PTSD episode was a separate issue, and while the Deus Ex Machina gun she gets shot with was stupid, it was just a crappy plot device to keep Samus from being able to stop Adam from sacrificing himself. People make it sound like she was running through volcano land chanting "Do you like me, Adam? I'm doing it for you!"
Sakamoto making one mistake doesn't really mean he should never be involved with the franchise again.
I say give him one more chance at making a Metroid game, preferably a 2D one. He said before Other M came out, that if he wanted to make another Super Metroid-esque game, he could. I want to see if he really can, cos that'd be amazing on Wii U or 3DS.
If he fails at making another game then by all means, keep him away from Metroid.
Nah. You are wrong because Samus is sexy and shouldn't bow down to Adam. Also Samus can't be scared of monsters because in Super Metroid there was no FMV showing her inner fears. I want PRIME 4 FPS and Sakamoto dead. I actually agree with everything you said, but this is an uphill battle.
Does it, because I don't think it does. Metroid Fusion begins with Samus telling the player she hates taking orders and ending with her giving the Federation the middle finger. I mean, maybe her relationship with Adam can be seen that way post Other-M, but Adam doesn't become human until around the time Samus has decided to buck the system, and is a computer while she takes orders.
I dunno, I felt it refuted rather than supported the idea of a submissive Samus.
If you remove the gender difference, that would naturally mute almost any accusation of sexism. That's an absurd standard. By the same standard, for example, "nigger" isn't racist because if a black person says it to another black person it's alright.
It seems that the only examples of prejudice that would meet that standard would be ones that explicitly say, "I think you are like __________ because you are a _________," which closes off almost any interesting discussion of gender or race dynamics in anything.
You're reading the argument wrong. If you treat a person a certain way BECAUSE of their sex, that's sexism. Samus and Adam's relationship could be the same regardless of their sex. Samus could be a young man looking up to Adam as a father figure. Samus could look up to Adam as a mother figure. They don't treat each other any way because of their sexes. It's a parent child dynamic.
If you call a black person the n word because they are black and you hate blacks, your skin color doesn't matter.