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[enzo_gt]

Right now we have two sources vs. zero with no other gaming news outlets giving conflicting reports of this information. Microsoft has said "we don't discuss speculation blah blah". I see no current reason to act is if the 720 not prohibiting second-hand play is likely.

And Microsoft not commenting because it isn't "worth their time" is bullshit. If this is false, every second this goes unaddress is bad for Microsoft.

Why would they need to act now? I can't think of a single reason. This isn't affecting them, the negative perception isn't on a market-wide scale, and they haven't even officially announced anything yet.

Consumers know rumours are rumours. If MS announces their Xbox tomorrow and says it will support used games, no damage from erroneous rumours will carry over. Everyone will forget about this shit, and move on. That is why MS doesn't have to say anything. MS is not hurting right now in perception right now outside of fickle and emotional forum members who are not good at reasoning.

 

[Backfoggen]

Completely missing my point. If I'm going to be stuck with no-second hand sales, I'd rather be stuck with the best platform for it.

Wow dude sorry I missed a point you didn't make in your post.

 

[Duxxy3]

Nonsense. You forgot...

- much easier to use, perfect for living-room PC's work fine in the living room

- consoles are cheaper (a PC capable of Nextgen graphics will cost at least 2x times as much)on the other hand games will cost a lot more on consoles

- no cheaters in online games ummmm... there are plenty of cheaters on consoles

- exclusives PC exclusives outnumber console exclusives 10-1

...and I am sure there are even more advantages.

that's better

 

[Tacitus_]

Nonsense. You forgot...

- much easier to use, perfect for living-room

- consoles are cheaper (a PC capable of Nextgen graphics will cost at least 2x times as much)

- no cheaters in online games

- exclusives

...and I am sure there are even more advantages.

- extremely debatable
- well, yes, a PC capable of next gen graphics will cost twice as much as a current gen console. If you want to see next gen graphics now, head to gafs build-a-pc thread
- oh please, console games get hacked to shit
- there are PC exclusives as well, you know

 

[Meelow]

If this is true many gamers will skip xbox3.

The remaining alternatives are PC, PS4 and Wii U. But Sony is nearly bancrupt. So in the end there will be only PC and Wii U. Its like last generation when the really hardcore gamers had a PC and Wii.

If Sony was nearly bankrupt I don't think they would of made a Vita, they would of just focused on PS4.

Sony is fine.

 

[Zee-Row]

And what if Orbis chooses the same path as Durango?

Nintendo is in a position to win again.

 

[szaromir]

This is the future.

Multiplayer online games in which everyone buys their own copy. Why would the developer want that copy to be used?

The trend at the moment seems to be everyone having the access to the game for free and then paying for some extras.

 

[D4Danger]

The difference is steam has amazing sales, while MS charges full price on their DD for much, much longer.

I suppose but Steam does charge more than retail to get the game on the day of release so there's that

if you can wait 8 months to play games then I guess it's ok. I can't see any of the console makers doing that.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

If Sony was nearly bankrupt I don't think they would of made a Vita, they would of just focused on PS4.

They should have.

 

[Busty]

If Sony was nearly bankrupt I don't think they would of made a Vita, they would of just focused on PS4.

Sony is fine.

Sony is neither 'nearly bankrupt' nor are they 'fine'. It is, unsurprisingly, more complicated than that.

 

[Des0lar]

Nonsense. You forgot...

- much easier to use, perfect for living-room

- consoles are cheaper (a PC capable of Nextgen graphics will cost at least 2x times as much)

- no cheaters in online games

- exclusives

...and I am sure there are even more advantages.

It's that time of the year again?

 

[2MF]

And what if Orbis chooses the same path as Durango?

Then play on PC, where you either can resell games or get all the benefits of digital distribution with forwards and backwards compatibility. That and buy a Wii U.

Rewarding bad behavior is not in my plans.

 

[SloaneRisette]

I'm not sure what I dislike about that more... the always online or the no second hand games. I don't buy second hand games, but I can completely understand why people would. Both of them are pretty equally disgusting, if true.

I wasn't planning to get the next Xbox, just because I've never had an MS console, but this would reaffirm my decision even more so.

Hopefully Sony doesn't go with something similar to this either.

 

[Raven77]

Lol some of the replies in here are hilarious.

Car makers don't make money when I re-sell my car.

Home Builders get nothing when I sell my house.



I guess the companies that make animal feed should be paid again if the farmer users the manure as fertilizer or sells it?

Where do we put a stop to this ludicrous crap?



I guess it comes down to one question, what do you "own" when you buy a product.



IF YOU NEED MORE MONEY THEN CHARGE MORE FOR GAMES, pretty simple. And yes, I would be perfectly happy paying 70-80 bucks for a game as long as the increase in price was noticeable in some way shape or form in the game. You pay more for a lexus for a reason.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Nintendo is in a position to win again.

With what support from third parties? Are we stuck in some sort of continuum? I swear people aren't reading now.

 

[ksamedi]

I don't think this will neccesarily have an effect on hardware sales, but it will definitely effect software sales. People are going to take less risks with software purchases because they will not be able to sell them. The entire mid tier of games will dissapear and only huge blockbuster titles will have a chance in such a landscape. I know Edge is credible, but I'll believe this when it is officially announced.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

IF YOU NEED MORE MONEY THEN CHARGE MORE FOR GAMES, pretty simple. And yes, I would be perfectly happy paying 70-80 bucks for a game as long as the increase in price was noticeable in some way shape or form in the game. You pay more for a lexus for a reason.

WTFNO!

Lots of bad suggestions in here

 

[2MF]

Lol some of the replies in here are hilarious.

Car makers don't make money when I re-sell my car.

Home Builders get nothing when I sell my house.

People are still saying this? Not surprising of course, even though they're totally irrelevant statements.

Car makers and home builders do get money from second hand sales. They just get it indirectly (no way houses and cars would be affordable at current prices without second hand sales).

 

[fallagin]

If it turns out like steam and allows play on any console and has constant deals, then I'll be fine. Seeing as how it is microsoft I don't see that happening.

If sony goes this way then I'm going with nintendo, that is until they get this same Idea in their heads..

 

[DrM]

No second hand games? No Durango for me. Due to low income, i have to check for every € spent, so I borrow games with friends (digital distribution is other story) I buy maybe 3 games in 6 months...

 

[Mooreberg]

Going to be very interesting to see what is fact and what is fiction as E3 approaches. Does GameStop make enough money from new game sales to withstand something like this?

 

[Backfoggen]

Nintendo is in a position to win again.

Or the amount of multiplats will go down even further cause publishers will say "We won't launch on the platform that doesn't have the non-second hand bullshit".

 

[Bloodsent]

I have really hard time believing the validity of this rumor, and not chalking it up as a way to get website hits. Too many concurrent changes to the existing model that would be detrimental to the consumer that it can't be true.

 

[Raven77]

People are still saying this? Not surprising of course, even though they're totally irrelevant statements.

Car makers and home builders do get money from second hand sales. They just get it indirectly (no way houses and cars would be affordable at current prices without second hand sales).

HA, indirectly?


What on Urf are you talking about???


Explain to me how when I sell my paid off car private party how Ford gets any money???

 

[faceless007]

I suppose but Steam does charge more than retail to get the game on the day of release so there's that

if you can wait 8 months to play games then I guess it's ok. I can't see any of the console makers doing that.

Er, what? Steam almost always has a pre-order discount and retail doesn't, and if they don't the MSRP is the same. Where on Earth are you getting that Steam charges more on release day?

 

[NullPointer]

I'm out.

 

[kaching]

He brings up a good point. If it's not an all-or-nothing approach from the entire industry, it risks rupturing and sectors of it crashing.

Eh, even if they were all on board, that wouldn't guarantee success, it could just guarantee a more rapid deterioration of the market, depending on how negatively this kind of thing is perceived.

OTOH, doing this in part rather than in whole gives you a ready escape valve if the experiment should fail (to the other platforms that didn't implement).

 

[mj1108]

I have really hard time believing the validity of this rumor, and not chalking it up as a way to get website hits. Too many concurrent changes to the existing model that would be detrimental to the consumer that it can't be true.

This has been talked about for awhile now.

I do wonder if maybe it wouldn't be for all titles, but Microsoft is giving publishers the option of including it instead on their titles.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

We have almost a dozen publishers using an EA-Pass type system. I doubt MS will stop all used games, but let devs/pubs opt in to a standard Online Pass system.

 

[iMerc]

With what support from third parties? Are we stuck in some sort of continuum? I swear people aren't reading now.

it's not like nintendo 'won' with the wii because of the 3rd party titles that came out on it.
Once again it was because of first party efforts.

Regardless, how about everyone calm down. at least 'til this is confirmed?

 

[Duxxy3]

Or the amount of multiplats will go down even further cause publishers will say "We won't launch on the platform that doesn't have the non-second hand bullshit".

People buy nintendo consoles for third party games now? I think that would be bigger news than microsoft's new DRM scheme.

 

[Uno Venova]

Why would they need to act now? I can't think of a single reason. This isn't affecting them, the negative perception isn't on a market-wide scale, and they haven't even officially announced anything yet.

Consumers know rumours are rumours. If MS announces their Xbox tomorrow and says it will support used games, no damage from erroneous rumours will carry over. Everyone will forget about this shit, and move on. That is why MS doesn't have to say anything. MS is not hurting right now in perception right now outside of fickle and emotional forum members who are not good at reasoning.

the negative perception isn't just affecting forum posters if gamestops stocks are affected, the news is enough to lure their devs to comment on it.

 

[Davey Cakes]

The last things games need is to be more expensive at MSRP than they already are. I'm sorry, but it's getting harder to justify $60, never mind $70-$80. People rely on price drops (which are becoming common), sales, and second-hand availability in order to save money while they still enjoy the hobby. Once you make games really expensive though, you're killing the appeal.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Or the amount of multiplats will go down even further cause publishers will say "We won't launch on the platform that doesn't have the non-second hand bullshit".

Bingo.

People are automatically assuming third parties are going to flock to Nintendo when in reality they will avoid them because they will allow second-hand sales.

 

[EMT0]

So, to clarify:

-Always online
-No used games, no using the game anywhere but on your console, possibly even only on your account
-Kinect 2.0 an integral part of the system
-Enormous overhead going into OS functions rather than games

Anyone remember MS's stated reason for joining the video game console race? To keep Sony from dominating the living room. Not for games, but the living room, and that means multimedia as a whole is a big focus for them. They've also stated that the 'plan' was to get it done within 3 generations.

Yeah, thanks but no thanks Microsoft. Thanks though, for making the choice for me. I know where your train is heading, and I don't want to go there, although some people might/will.

 

[BigDes]

Full price all of the time? You're still going to see discounts at retail, just as we do now. Games are often half their price in 4 months these days.

Which is in part to compete with used games sales

No used games means little incentive to drop the price

 

[MisterHero]

Or the amount of multiplats will go down even further cause publishers will say "We won't launch on the platform that doesn't have the non-second hand bullshit".

If they think that way they deserve to lose.

Granted, this is still hypothetical.

 

[Korgill]

With what support from third parties? Are we stuck in some sort of continuum? I swear people aren't reading now.

Support can always come later, seeing that we are discussing a hypothetical future. If Nintendo sells at the current rate but the bigger two fail to sell more then 1 million in the first year, third parties would have no choice. Not saying I think it would happen, but it could.

 

[Trigger]

So how will this work for people who rent games? I guess I'm screwed too. Disappointing. This sounds like something that will just hurt everyone in the long run.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Jesus...I don't know shit about hardcore PC making but I built my own PC (tutorial videos), I play it from my couch, it's hooked up to my TV, and I use a 360 controller for all my games.

Try to play an FPS online with your 360 controller.

- on the other hand games will cost a lot more on consoles

- there are plenty of cheaters on consoles

- PC exclusives outnumber console exclusives 10-1

that's better

1. Entry price is more affordable, that's an advantage in the eyes of many people.
2. There are considerably more cheaters on PCs then on PS3. I can't even remember seeing one.
3. AAA exclusives? And I am not really interested in RTS/MOBA etc.

Come on, it's just silly to view consoles only as weaker PCs. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, they are not the same. And there is a reason why they are so succesful.

 

[Crag Dweller]

People are still saying this? Not surprising of course, even though they're totally irrelevant statements.

Car makers and home builders do get money from second hand sales. They just get it indirectly (no way houses and cars would be affordable at current prices without second hand sales).

I would love to hear how they do this.

 

[razgriz417]

wait if the rumors are true and Sony does this too wouldn't it be considered collusion? Isn't Germany already suing Valve for not having a way for consumers to sell their used games? Imagine the hilarity if the FTC had to get invovled

 

[D4Danger]

Er, what? Steam almost always has a pre-order discount and retail doesn't, and if they don't the MSRP is the same. Where on Earth are you getting that Steam charges more on release day?

Aliens is discounted from £40 to £30 right now on Steam but it's £25 on Amazon.

 

[Raven77]

The last things games need is to be more expensive at MSRP than they already are. I'm sorry, but it's getting harder to justify $60, never mind $70-$80. People rely on price drops (which are becoming common), sales, and second-hand availability in order to save money while they still enjoy the hobby. Once you make games really expensive though, you're killing the appeal.

I agree with part of what your saying, but lets face the facts.

Right now you get on an average game 20-40 hours of entertainment for 60 bucks.



People seem perfectly find dropping 15-20 dollars to see a 1:45 minute movie...so...yeah. Even at 100 dollars for a game, the value per dollar spent is still much much higher than most other forms of electronic entertainment.

 

[Foffy]

Eh, even if they were all on board, that wouldn't guarantee success, it could just guarantee a more rapid deterioration of the market, depending on how negatively this kind of thing is perceived.

OTOH, doing this in part rather than in whole gives you a ready escape valve if the experiment should fail (to the other platforms that didn't implement).

Oh of course. That's what I hope happens. I've long had this feeling these companies, focusing on making games based on focus groups and wanting games to be a "service" are long missing what the mainstream consumer wants. Fuck, I think they're already losing a lot of the core that have stopped buying games at launch and have waited for the bomba price after setting the precedent that a full-priced game is not always a fully complete product, as there's always something more planned literally after launch.

I hope, if any company goes down this way, they bust their arteries and bleed money into oblivion. If this is what publishers want, I want them to fail.

 

[enzo_gt]

the negative perception isn't just affecting forum posters if gamestops stocks are affected, the news is enough to lure their devs to comment on it.

Did it lower their stocks the last time these rumours made the rounds?

 

[Violater]

Christ why do PC gamers care so much.

 

[Interrobang]

Nonsense. You forgot...

- much easier to use, perfect for living-room

- consoles are cheaper (a PC capable of Nextgen graphics will cost at least 2x times as much)

- no cheaters in online games

- exclusives

...and I am sure there are even more advantages.

Wow, really?

-I'm not looking for an entertainment hub like they're selling. I'm looking to game. And a PC can easily be hooked up to a television in any room.

-Not in the long run. You build one stable machine and you're good to go for years. And with gaming sales on Steam GMG you'd save hundreds if not thousands in game cash.

-There are cheaters on Xbox Live and PC alike. You find a server that is clean and you stick around.

-What? They're are a shit ton more exclusives on PC compared to any two consoles combined.

Not sure what you were trying to prove here.

 

[Raven77]

Originally Posted by 2MF: View Post
People are still saying this? Not surprising of course, even though they're totally irrelevant statements.

Car makers and home builders do get money from second hand sales. They just get it indirectly (no way houses and cars would be affordable at current prices without second hand sales).

I would love to hear how they do this.

I already asked for an explanation...there is none cause it doesnt happen.

 

[Treemonkeys]

I'm okay with this on steam because of steam sales, but there are very, very few games I would pay $60 for if I can't re-sell them if they turn out to be terribly unenjoyable.