AZ Greg
Member
Well, in the US, the PS3 did 243,000 during its first January post-launch. Just a tad better than 57,000 wouldn't you say?
how much does it afflict you that next-gen (3DS/VITA/WIIU) is struggling so much?
- Thread starter sphinx
- Start date
Well, in the US, the PS3 did 243,000 during its first January post-launch. Just a tad better than 57,000 wouldn't you say?
I'm curious as to why you're bringing up the Wii U, as if that had anything to do with my previous statement.
Metallix87
Member
Cheapest Bluray player at the time.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
We don't have annual GB shipments going back, but the DMG only did about 70m lifetime (including Pocket and Light models). There's pretty much zero chance 3DS is tracking behind that, so it's odd it was mentioned at all.
XL was comparably muted because it's an additional model rather than a successive remodel (unlike GB Pocket, GBA SP, DS Lite, etc). It's designed to co-exist alongside the "base" model rather than outright replace it. What you should be comparing it to is really DSi XL or GB micro. 3DS hasn't yet had it's Pocket/SP/Lite.
Also, while I'm not sure if 3DS can match the DS high of 23m next fiscal year, I'd say it's at least a safe bet for growth over this year thanks to some key major system drivers (Pokémon XY worldwide, Monster Hunter 4 in Japan). Nintendo also really flubbed CY12Q4 by only having Paper Mario to hold up holidays in the west, and skipping the opportunity for a big Black Friday surge by not offering deals/bundles on 3DS. Both were really blunders on Nintendo's part imo, which they hopefully won't repeat in 2013.
AZ Greg
Member
Do I really have to spell it out? You've been arguing that the launch/launch-window market for the PS4/720 pretty much amounts to GAF. The guy who used the Madden/COD example was just trying to show that there is a market of buyers who will buy a shiny new console just for those even if there is a version available for their predecessor. The numbers seem to support that. The reason I brought the WiiU up is because many want to believe 57k is the new normal instead of admitting to the problems that platform has. Your posts in here led me to believe you think that way.
360 sold 231,000 during its first January post-launch. Most expensive DVD player at the time!
Davey Cakes
Member
I have nothing to back this up, but: the PS4/720 are going to sell way better than the Wii U did, out of the gate anyway. This is based purely on the core audience hankering for new hardware.
Plus, I predict these systems will receive way better marketing than the Wii U, unless Sony and MS are idiots.
I say this as a happy owner of a Wii U. Nintendo made bad mistakes and deserved to be taken down a peg. That said, with enough games and a marketing turnaround, things could pick up.
Plus, I predict these systems will receive way better marketing than the Wii U, unless Sony and MS are idiots.
I say this as a happy owner of a Wii U. Nintendo made bad mistakes and deserved to be taken down a peg. That said, with enough games and a marketing turnaround, things could pick up.
Ugh! Don't go there.
People are already twisting and talking about the rumored "returns fron scalpers" as fact and even saying that as "more evidence that the Wii U is bombing".
Yeah, I'm sure that's why the Wii U is doing so fantastic right now.
What I am arguing is that the assertation that the "core" will be enough to ensure the PS4 and Durango will have a smash hit success at launch is silly.
Sony and MS need to provide prospective buyers with other things other than CoD and Madden, as well as shiny versions of KZ and Halo if they want success.
Nintendo failed with the Wii U launch simply because of the lack of preparation. There was no relevant software, advertisement, and an attractive price point.
Little Green Yoda
Member
It's funny how the Wii U is turning into the bizarro Vita. One is a very Western-centric handheld (partly due to Sony's Western focus first party-wise and the loss of DQ, MH) in an environment where most Western gamers don't care for dedicated handhelds. The other is shaping up to be a Japanese dependent console (plentiful Western 3rd party support was never going to happen and the low power draw specs is clearly a play for the Japanese demographic) in a time when handhelds rule the roost in Japan.
Of course, the Japanese third parties aren't exactly lining up for Wii U projects either but I think most people expected more out of them than Western ones. Makes one think about the rationale behind both projects, especially with the relative lack of marketing for both.
Of course, the Japanese third parties aren't exactly lining up for Wii U projects either but I think most people expected more out of them than Western ones. Makes one think about the rationale behind both projects, especially with the relative lack of marketing for both.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sure i'm getting what your point is. Yes tablets is a bigger deal right now to everyone. Everyone already knows this, but how does that effect the next generation when you admit there's also a big core there too? I mean someone has to cater to the core crowd, since as you admit that crowd is pretty big.
The thing you and most analysts seem to be missing is that, at this point in time, the casuals are a lost cause. Unless you make the PS4 into a phone you are not going to get money from them. As far as the PS4 and the Next Xbox is concerned those people might as well not exist. But there's still money to be made from the core.
Well for the Vita and Wii U, it's their own fault that they are struggling (for different reasons). 3DS really isn't doing that poorly, unless you are comparing it to the DS line which may be hard to top (i mean the DS sold about 40 million more units than the game boy, and nearly twice as many as the game boy advance)
According to this chart
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1212.pdf
the 3ds has sold about 29.8 million, with about 10.88 million of those units in japan, 9.97 million units in the Americas and 8.99 million units everywhere else. Not great numbers (and doesn't provide specific NA and EU numbers), but seeing as its only been out for 2 years it's not terrible either as long as it can keep it up. And I definitely would not say it's struggling as of today
According to this chart
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1212.pdf
the 3ds has sold about 29.8 million, with about 10.88 million of those units in japan, 9.97 million units in the Americas and 8.99 million units everywhere else. Not great numbers (and doesn't provide specific NA and EU numbers), but seeing as its only been out for 2 years it's not terrible either as long as it can keep it up. And I definitely would not say it's struggling as of today
Risk Breaker
Member
A lot. I wish all platforms sold a ton :/
Thank the fucking iSociety I guess.
Thank the fucking iSociety I guess.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
At this point, I feel that anyone saying that the PS4 and 720 are going to fail just wants them to fail out of spite because the Wii U is struggling.
Tell that to the PSP!
It's an interesting point though. I wonder which are the highest selling third party games on 3DS and Vita. The only third party games I have are Shinobi and Monkey Ball on 3DS.
PS3 hit its first all-time low back in April and May 2007 where it moved only 82k units each in the US. It didn't have any software (exclusive or multiplatform) make it on to the top 20 NPD chart for April. In May, it had Spider Man 3 ranked at 17th and MBL: The Show coming in at 18th place.
I really don't see the PS4 struggling. It may not explode in sales right out of the gate, but it definitely will have good sales, and as soon as it gets a price cut down into the 300-400 range, it's going to sell plenty of units.
As for the NextBox, we'll find out. I've heard a lot of gloom for a console that hasn't even been officially announced, I'm interested to see how they counter Sony's reveal.
As for the NextBox, we'll find out. I've heard a lot of gloom for a console that hasn't even been officially announced, I'm interested to see how they counter Sony's reveal.
Weirdly, I see mostly cheap 7" android tablets being used in public by children in the place where they used to use DS. It's anecdotal evidence, but there's a lot of them.
First off, I never admitted that the core crowd is big. Second, no shit there is money to be made from that market, what I'm saying is that it isn't enough to ensure smashing success.
From the rumors, MS looks like they see that, and are preparing to be a more attractive product to all audiences.
Sony on the other hand is touting, "CORE, CORE, CORE" as the focus for the PS4.
AZ Greg
Member
But is anyone in here really claiming they'll have "smash hit success"? Most people just seem to be saying they think they'll do well and much better than the WiiU. As I've said before, I see them putting up similar numbers to their predecessors during the first year. But I'm not expecting PS2/Wii numbers.
airmangataosenai
Member
You can argue that the core market isn't enough to sustain the systems for long-term growth, but to say that the core market isn't large enough to support a successful system launch is ridiculous. There are absolutely enough people in the enthusiast market to push a $400 system to 1 million sales within the first holiday season (Nor are they likely to see a drop in sales as dramatic as Wii U's in January) should the stock be there. How that translates to two similar systems in the market at the same time is up for debate, but one of them will almost certainly do very well this holiday.
As a mainly PC gamer who doesn't game while mobile to any great extent the honest answer is - not much.
It does seem a shame but TBH on the console front it's felt crowded for a while (three competing consoles given the console model just feels like too much) and on the handheld side there is so much competition from multiple mobile devices it's hard to envisage a large market for people carrying multiple mobile devices - so there are bound to be casualties there.
If I'm honest I'm less worried about the hardware side vs trends in software/services and pay-walls.
It does seem a shame but TBH on the console front it's felt crowded for a while (three competing consoles given the console model just feels like too much) and on the handheld side there is so much competition from multiple mobile devices it's hard to envisage a large market for people carrying multiple mobile devices - so there are bound to be casualties there.
If I'm honest I'm less worried about the hardware side vs trends in software/services and pay-walls.
Pretty much. I think it all stems from the mentality that if Nintendo is struggling after such success, there's no way anyone else is going to have any luck. Which I really think has a lot more to say about Nintendo, than anything about the industry.
evilromero
Member
Wii Sports.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I don't understand how people are predicting the PS4/720 launches as successes/failures with the info we have at hand right now. We don't even know the price of the PS4 yet - PS3 sounded great until that 599 USD nugget dropped. And we know even less about the 720!
Yup, we've had this thread before. I've seen things range from a "complete revitalization of the market", to "middling success". I'm almost positive they will see better numbers than 57k, how MUCH better is still in the dark.
Oh absolutely, the one that is attractive to all facets of the market.
Not at all. Their lackluster performance is pretty understandable.
Vita: costs too much, not enough games and a design philosophy unfit for the age of the smartphone
3DS: starter too expensive, unimpressive hardware, design philosophy unfit for the age of the smartphone. It will do fine eventually because the games and pricing are now good.
Wii U: gamepad not as appealing as motion controls, unimpressive hardware, lackluster online functionality, high price for what it does
Vita: costs too much, not enough games and a design philosophy unfit for the age of the smartphone
3DS: starter too expensive, unimpressive hardware, design philosophy unfit for the age of the smartphone. It will do fine eventually because the games and pricing are now good.
Wii U: gamepad not as appealing as motion controls, unimpressive hardware, lackluster online functionality, high price for what it does
People only want them to fail so the Wii U won't get left in the dust.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I literally don't care how these consoles do. At all.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
3DS should have shipped/digital a few 3rd party platinum titles at this point (SSF4, MH3G, KH3D, DQVII, sort of Layton 5), while Vita has yet to manage one afaik (1st or 3rd party).
Well as we just saw from this current generation with the Wii, the casual crowd is fickle. They can either make or break a platform and as we are seeing with the Wii U, Nintendo gambled on them again and lost. Now, seeing how MS wants Durango to appeal to the casuals with it's multimedia capabilities and Kinect versus Sony wanting to position the PS4 as the core console with games/multimedia capabilities, it's pretty easy to start making distinctions between what will be good for the market and what won't. We won't know for certain until MS unveils Durango though.
plank
Member
I don't think PS360 can do PC textures.
Deified Data
Banned
3DS seems to be doing quite well, and we've yet to see an actual next-gen console so far. Not sure what OP's worried about.
Spending less on video games and buying fewer games such that I actually have the time to play them to completion isn't that bad of a situation for me. It helps too that I don't game much on PC or smartphone/tablets anymore. If the industry continues to struggle to create good games that turn a profit, and as a result, the playing field becomes barren, I hope that the crisis will strike some innovation in game design, i.e. trying different things instead of following each other.
Baconsammy
Banned
So Sony provided people a secondary reason to buy a PS3 beyond games. Conversely Nintendo made yet another disc-based system and refused to pay for licensing to allow bluray, dvd, cd playback. Sometimes being cheap comes back and bites you in the ass. Nintendo's ass is full of bite marks.
It isn't. It just had a month worse than any the original DS had, and in it's second holiday season in the US it was down in sales by hundreds of thousands of units, with software sales down as well. It's also struggling in Europe.
Baconsammy
Banned
grimshawish
Banned
The UK. Rest of Europe its actually doing very well.
Most Wanted having sharper textures doesn't matter. Having a launch lineup consisting of old current-gen console ports isn't next gen, having your first party titles look PRETTY SIMILAR to current gen titles isn't next gen, having people port beg for current gen console titles doesn't matter. It's stuff like Deep Down or Killzone 4 that's going to let consumers know that they need to upgrade.
Not true, I'm just trying to bring those afflicted by generational fatigue back to reality. I don't want them to fail but the market (not even taking to account the Wii U) says they are launching in a completely different environment from '05/'06 and they will probably do worse than their predecessors. New console hype in 2013 isn't the same as it was the previous generation. This doesn't mean that they will do worse than the Wii U but it also doesn't mean they are immune to putting up bad numbers (especially if they have high price points and 'negative' features such as no used games and paywalls).
Carpe Libertatem
Member
The global economy is very different now than it was when the Wii, 360, and PS3 launched. I have no idea if the PS4/720 will be pulling more than 57k in January 2014 (they probably will), but using numbers from 05/06 doesn't really show anything. Particularly if the U.S. and EU economies take further dips this year because of austerity.
What stops you from porting PC games to the PC-friendly consoles?
and returns
Baconsammy
Banned
Sorry, I'm looking at the charts every week for numerous areas in Europe. It is most certainly not doing well through the rest of Europe. Nintendo's own numbers don't indicate that either. There are pockets where it's doing well (France), but it is definitely not living up to the sales expectations Nintendo set for it.
Mid tier publishers will think twice about supporting the next gen consoles.
Murder. She Wrote
Member
If people honestly think that the PS4/720 will do as bad as vita/wiiu.... lol